Just feeling empty...

HIM: I don't want anything...
ME: Why not?
HIM: Because everything I ever wanted is gone. It just doesn't exist anymore...
ME: And you think you'll never find something you actually want again?
HIM: Nope.
ME: How can you be so sure?
HIM: Because I'm not even the same guy, and people aren't really "people" anymore—they’re just shadows of what they used to be. You see what they're willing to do now? Even the nastiest animals wouldn't touch that stuff. I'm just breathing. Honestly? This is the first time I've felt happy—now that I don't want anything.
ME: How does that even make you happy?
HIM: Simple. No expectations, no hopes, no fears, no delusions. None of that emotional baggage that makes everyone else miserable. A person without wants is the only one who's truly free. People build their own prisons, and then they end up enslaving everyone else because of their own weaknesses, even when they don't mean to.

This convo got me thinking...
Our desires, our massive expectations, our hopes, our fears... they're all basically our own personal jailers. Every bit of misery and every single disappointment starts right there, with what we want... but so does happiness. What kind of person is left when you strip away desire? Can you even imagine living without wanting something? What has to break inside someone for them to finally just stop caring?

Maybe he’s free, but to me, it sounds like he’s just burnt out. Not exactly an enticing prospect, is it?

I honestly think you can find true happiness if you aren't constantly chasing after things you don't already have.
But, if you don't even care about holding onto what you currently possess—even if all you have left is life itself—then I really don't think happiness is possible for you.

It all stems from this deep-seated delusion that we’re somehow immortal....
The absolute greatest comedy in existence is how, despite the undeniable fact that we’re all heading toward the grave—that even tomorrow a distracted driver could end it all—everyone lives as if death is a myth. If people actually sat down and contemplated their own mortality, their entire perspective on life would shift. Their values would transform. Nothing transient would carry weight anymore, whether we're talking about material wealth, emotional entanglements, or mental pursuits like hoarding knowledge....
There is no desire for what isn't possessed...
But then again, if you refuse to want anything, you won't end up possessing anything either, because everything you currently hold is simply the result of having once wanted something...

And if you try to cling to what you have? That’s even more pathetic than the initial desire. When you want to acquire something, you move forward; you’re active, perhaps even optimistic in a way. But when you focus on holding onto something, you live in a state of constant fear and tension, which is the worst way to exist. You realize that everything can be snatched away tomorrow, and that realization is where suffering begins. You become terrified of loss, and in your desperate attempt to prevent it, you end up destroying yourself. You start making compromises with your own conscience just to maintain the status quo.

At the very least, consider life itself...

And eventually, even life will slip away...
You might manage to live a happy, idyllic, perfect life, but in the end, death will claim its due regardless. And if you are too deeply attached to your physical existence and your body, death will be an agonizing struggle.
Every form of attachment breeds suffering, and the more primal the attachment, the more brutal the pain. Physical and material greed is the most destructive. Emotional ties are more subtle, followed by intellectual vanity.
The highest form is spiritual devotion, though even that ultimately needs to be released; however, it is the only type of connection that can lead a person toward freedom from all other attachments... It works like pulling one thorn out with another. Therefore, if one cannot completely escape the cycle of attachment, one should at least direct that devotion toward the highest ideal, toward God, or whatever name we choose to give that ultimate reality.

slycrane94 said:I think happiness comes from not craving anything you don't already have.
But if someone doesn't even care to hold onto what they *do* have—even if it's just the bare essentials of staying alive—then I don't see how they could ever be happy. If nothing matters, does anything?

Are you really that certain about that? Imagine living without any desires at all. Or in your case, imagine having no drive to learn or understand the world around you. That doesn't sound much like living to me. You can get tired of things, sure, but you never really get enough knowledge, do you?

If nothing else, I just want to be with my girlfriend. 😁

Well, I might have been a bit vague there. What I meant was that a person can—though certainly isn't obligated to—find happiness simply by having everything they need and deciding they don't want anything else. That doesn't mean there aren't other paths to fulfillment, either.

For instance, I definitely don't have everything I need yet. The struggle to get there makes me feel unhappy one moment and completely fulfilled the next, depending on my mood and whatever specific goal I'm chasing at the time.

I mean, I’m pretty much right there with anyone saying we’re gonna be dead for the rest of eternity anyway... just waiting to see what it’s like to have zero things and be absolutely nothing.

And while we're actually breathing? It's all just a massive waste of time.

There’s a massive difference between lacking desire and simply choosing not to have it. Wanting things... that's perfectly fine. 😉

p.s.
If someone truly has no desires left, they’ve finally broken free from the karmic cycle.
(So don't mess around with that—you might just find yourself drifting off this planet entirely.)

But here's the thing: desire doesn't live in our conscious mind. You can't just "decide" to stop wanting things. Karma builds up in the subconscious, where impulses brew by mixing our internal drives with external influences. These desires always seek expression—which is really just a way of self-destructing through fulfillment. As long as you're still tethered to the world around you, those desires will stay.
(One last thought for the observant ones: the idea of a desire being "fulfilled" is actually nonsense. Fulfillment is its own kind of destruction. So, if that's the case, what is desire actually trying to tell us?...)

This whole thread really got my gears turning...
Our desires, those massive expectations we carry, our hopes, our deepest fears... honestly, they’re all just different kinds of prisons. Every bit of misery and every moment of pure bliss starts right there, with what we want......but then again, can you even have happiness without desire? What kind of person is left when they stop wanting things? How do you even imagine living a life without any drive at all? What has to break inside someone for them to just... stop wanting?

A little hard to tell what this is actually pointing toward. But I guess a person really dies when their hope goes out.

The "hope" part—you know, the craving for material stuff—that's pretty subjective. Everyone knows exactly how much money or stuff they need before they hit that sweet spot of being satisfied.

But that hunger for spiritual peace, for some actual Purpose... that's the real engine. Because at the end of the day, Purpose is the only thing that makes any sacrifice worth it.

There’s some truth to that.

I guess you could say there are two kinds of desires. There are the ones we somehow force upon ourselves from deep down—things that actually end up weighing us down or feeling incredibly heavy, even if we convince ourselves they’re huge milestones. But then, once we finally get them, we realize they weren't all that important, and they don't really leave us feeling fulfilled.

When you finally let go of those kinds of wants, it feels like you can finally breathe again. You stop overthinking everything and making such a big deal out of things. Life just happens, and the only desires that show up are the spontaneous ones—things that arise naturally from whatever you're doing in the moment. They pop up, they pass, and if you don't act on them, it doesn't matter. It doesn't turn into that weird obsession where you feel like, "if I don't get this specific thing, my life is over."

Maybe I'm not explaining this quite right, I guess. 😕

However, if one refuses to desire anything, they will likely end up possessing nothing either, since everything they currently hold was earned through some form of prior ambition...

I feel somewhat reluctant to point this out, but I believe we really ought to make a clear distinction here between "having" (acquiring) and "being" (becoming).
The desire to possess something is a fundamental need that perhaps truly should be addressed or overcome.
On the other hand, wanting to become something—or someone—(and I don't mean in the sense of chasing Hollywood stardom) might actually be something quite worth the effort.

Billi said:This thread really got my gears turning...
Our desires, those massive expectations we carry, our hopes, our anxieties... they really are our own personal jailers, aren't they? Every bit of misery and every ounce of joy starts right there, rooted in what we want. But then again, what kind of person is left when you strip away desire? It’s hard to even picture a life without wanting something. What would it actually take for a person to just... stop wanting?

Personally, I think that whole idea is a total myth—the notion that someone can reach perfection by being totally void of desire. The closest thing to that is a friend of mine who’s part of Jesus's ministry; he spends six months at a time in silent meditation, having handed over every single impulse to God, basically scrubbing his entire existence clean of any expectation or craving.
He’s dedicated his whole life to God.
I don't think people like that are truly devoid of desire; I think they're just in the middle of the process of letting them go.

I’d argue that nobody exists without desire—it’s an illusion. Desire is essentially the engine of human motivation, fueled by this fundamental hope that things will eventually turn out the way we want them to. (Sorry if that sounds a bit messy.)🙄

At the end of the day, desire is woven into the fabric of the human psyche; without it, you might as well be signing your own death warrant as a living creature. Unless, of course, you’re a "professional" spiritualist, like my buddy who’s a priest.

Every human being operates on a spectrum of desire, and we all love to pretend we’re somehow above it all.

We all have this curated image of ourselves we want to project, but reality is usually something else entirely. In our desperate rush to "ascend" or feel superior, we tend to forget that we’re just human beings. And honestly, there’s something beautiful about accepting that limitation.
🙂
I’m not interested in giving up my desires, whether they’re physical or spiritual. I certainly don't think walking away from them would make me any happier.
If I did that, I’d probably just end up sitting in a garden, holding hands with a fern, trying to survive.
But we aren't plants.
Desire is the fuel for growth, for survival—it's the pure, raw momentum of life itself.

I have been giving this some more thought: perhaps we should also make a distinction between needs and wants.
A want is essentially a matter of choice, a category that I suppose is unique to us humans.

Could we possibly frame them as two opposing forces:

the desire for possession
versus
the fundamental need for self-actualization.

So, is having stuff actually a problem? Or like, how are you even supposed to function if you don't have anything? And how do you even tell when you finally have enough? Like, once you hit that point where you just... exist? I mean, having things is nice, sure. But having more? That feels way better. At least, that's how it looks from the outside...
So seriously, how do you know when you've got enough?

deni said:Makes sense.

There are two ways to want stuff. First, there’s the junk we force on ourselves for some reason. It just weighs us down. We think it’s huge, life-changing, whatever, but once we actually get it, we realize it wasn't even that big a deal. It doesn't fill the void.

Once you drop those fake desires, you can finally breathe. You stop overthinking everything. Life just happens, and you only feel wants that pop up naturally in the moment. They show up, they leave, and if you don't get them? No biggie. You aren't stuck thinking, "if I don't get this, my life is over."

Not sure if I explained that right.😕

Seems like he "let go" of those specific cravings—the ones that suck all your energy and turn into these obsessive goals that basically run your life. His wants are just about the now, not some long-term grind to hit a target. A person without a master plan... they're just living. They still want things in the moment, but they aren't slaves to them.

Bradley Fisher20 said:Is having problems even a thing? Or how do you deal if you don't? How do you know when you've got enough? And that you just need to be? Honestly, having stuff is nice. Having more is better. At least that's how it feels.
So, how do you actually know when you're set?

Don't your own desires tell you whether you have enough or not? 😁

Look, none of us are perfect. It's just that constant, nagging feeling of "not being enough" that keeps driving me crazy. And honestly? If you don't have that drive, you can't even get started. Or maybe you can... I don't know, that whole idea is just way too out of my league.

What’s the point of living without desire? At the very least, I want to wake up tomorrow, and that single drive triggers everything else. First, I’m hungry—I want food, a decent cup of coffee, to do a good job... we're all just slaves to our impulses. One craving pulls the next along. My friend claims he wants to be free, to live without wanting anything. How is that even possible? Food is a necessity; doesn't he crave eating? Surely his mouth waters for spinach when there's roasted chicken sitting right next to it. I can't believe anyone could truly want nothing.
I want plenty of things. The hardest part is fulfilling those seemingly trivial desires, though they all eventually lead to a more complete sense of purpose. It feels great when I achieve something on my own, and even better when someone else fulfills a wish for me.

deni said:There’s some truth to that...

I think there are two types of desires. Then you have those ones we just somehow force upon ourselves from deep down—the kind that actually end up getting in our way. They weigh us down, or we convince ourselves they’re life-changingly important, but once we actually get them... we realize they weren't even that big of a deal. They don't really fulfill us at all.

But what happens when fulfilling those kinds of cravings—usually the material stuff—actually does make us feel satisfied?

I wasn't even talking about money or material stuff, quite the opposite actually.
When I said "primary" desires, I meant those goals we constantly push ourselves toward.

I should probably point out that we're all wired differently. What works for one person might just feel like an exhausting chore to someone else.

For some people, having a clear goal—planning everything out and grinding away at it—is everything. They get this little rush from the small wins along the way. Even when they mess up, it just gets them thinking about how to fix it. Their ambition drives them to come up with new tactics and strategies to hit their mark, and honestly, for them, that whole process is pretty much enjoyable...

Then there’s a different breed of person (I think our friend Calisthenics falls into this camp, which is why I was trying to explain his perspective—it kind of resonates with me, too). For these folks, having a specific desire or a rigid goal feels suffocating. It creates this internal tension that leaves them feeling restless and unsatisfied, even after they actually achieve what they wanted. They tend to function much better when things are spontaneous. It makes it easier for them to just roll with whatever happens, good or bad, and that sense of flow is what actually sets them free. To them, being overly goal-oriented just breeds neurosis. They feel trapped if their entire world has to revolve around one thing; they can't breathe, they can't think clearly, and they lose that ability to just be present and spontaneous.

That's really the heart of it—there isn't a one-size-fits-all rule because people are just built differently. The important thing is finding the principle that lets US operate best. And ultimately, helps us be more content. 🙂