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Misunderstanding

Started by Nicholas King · · 👁 11 views · 54 replies

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Participants Nicholas Kingmistywolf17Tyler Grant76wiredangler5northernpilot2boldwalker12darksailor2dustyranger64Nicole JamesBrandon Castillo4Bradley Sanders4hollowtrucker77Tyler Bishop56Eric Newman75vividtiger922cosmicskipper39melloworca6mellowraven22Paul Green31A
melloworca6 melloworca6 Regular
551 messages
joined May 2010
#41 ·
northernpilot2 said:Nah, you didn't imagine it, I saw that too, but seriously, why the hell was that notice pulled down so fast? It honestly makes this whole thing look pretty unprofessional.🤷

And yet, it’s still plastered all over the forum as a global announcement.🙂
cosmicskipper39 cosmicskipper39 Active Member
71 messages
joined Jan 2012
#42 ·
northernpilot2 said:Nah, you didn't imagine it, I saw that too, but seriously, why the hell was that notice pulled down so fast? It honestly makes this whole thing look pretty unprofessional.🤷

melloworca6 said:And yet, it’s still plastered all over the forum as a global announcement.🙂


Look, my bad if I missed something, but I seriously don't see any global announcement anymore. Clearly, we're just dealing with yet another massive misunderstanding.

I don't want to derail this thread, so I'll just sign off now since I haven't got anything else to add besides what I already said.
hollowtrucker77 hollowtrucker77 Regular
681 messages
joined Nov 2007
#43 ·
How can you say you don't know?
If you're claiming that only a handful of people had their partials removed, that pretty much implies you're aware of the others who are still sitting on them.
So, if you actually laid out exactly who those people are, you'd be doing us all a massive favor, and honestly, you'd be helping them out too.
mellowraven22 mellowraven22 Active Member
105 messages
joined Jan 2007
#44 ·
I'm here.

image

🤷
Paul Green31 Paul Green31 Active Member
52 messages
joined Jun 2011
#45 ·
@cosmicskipper39

The global announcement is plastered right on the homepage of every single sub-forum. Nobody’s touched it since it went up.
So, just click on Politics, or head over to the PŽK, and look at the top once the sub-forum loads.

Honestly, maybe the admins should consider sending those people a formal certified letter with a return receipt. Then they could just scan the receipts and post them here so we can all see they actually got the memo. 😁
vividtiger922 vividtiger922 Member
39 messages
joined Apr 2009
#46 ·
Can anyone shed some light on who’s actually running the show with the new PŽK moderators? I ask because a few days ago, someone mentioned that the entire supermod team is handling the PŽK oversight now. I'm talking about general discussion threads, not the actual appeals or rulings... So, is it really everyone, or just that specific group we were told about?

BTW, if you do some simple math, it turns out the new rules and that notice about removing partials got way more eyes on them in just a few hours than the new rules pinned at the top did in an entire week. Thanks for actually listening to the people once in a while...
hollowtrucker77 hollowtrucker77 Regular
681 messages
joined Nov 2007
#47 ·
vividtiger922 said:Can anyone shed some light on who’s actually running the show with the new PŽK moderators? I ask because a few days ago, someone mentioned that the entire supermod team is handling the PŽK oversight now. I'm talking about general discussion threads, not the actual appeals or rulings... So, is it really everyone, or just that specific group we were told about?

BTW, if you do some simple math, it turns out the new rules and that notice about removing partials got way more eyes on them in just a few hours than the new rules pinned at the top did in an entire week. Thanks for actually listening to the people once in a while...

it's all the supermods, though these guys will also be dealing with extra post reports and making sure everyone actually follows the PŽK rules
vividtiger922 vividtiger922 Member
39 messages
joined Apr 2009
#48 ·
hollowtrucker77 said:it's all the supermods, though these guys will also be dealing with extra post reports and making sure everyone actually follows the PŽK rules

Much appreciated. It's a solid choice.
A Anonymous Veteran
3.6K messages
joined May 2005
#49 ·
Nicole James said:Byron, I’m going to lay out the facts one more time for you.

Fact 1: The decision was made to lift all partial bans across the board.
Fact 2: This call was finalized only after the new rules of the organization were officially published.
Fact 3: These partial bans are being removed from users sequentially—it isn't just happening to you.

You haven't received any special treatment here, and there is absolutely no reason for a partial ban to be applied to your account. If you're truly insisting on being banned, we might be able to accommodate that request—but let’s be clear: that wouldn't be "correcting" some perceived favoritism you claim to have had, it would simply be granting a ban upon request.

hollowtrucker77 said:We’ve gone ahead and lifted those partial bans for everyone on our list—just so we're all clear, that applies specifically to the organization's matters
If anyone somehow slipped through the cracks and was missed, just shoot a DM to Tyndall or me

The slightly awkward part here is having to post a notice on a PDF that most of you forum regulars won't even be able to see anyway
🙂

I was actually going to reach out via private message, but I changed my mind after seeing that bolded part in the first quote. Since it’s already been stated publicly that those partial PŽK bans have been lifted for everyone, I really don't want my message just vanishing into some digital void. Honestly, I have plenty of reasons to be wary, especially since I was unfairly banned by the very admin who is actively encouraging people to send them a private message.

cosmicskipper39 said:Was I hallucinating today, or did someone actually post about the new rule of the organization and lifting those partial bans for a few users across the entire forum?

Since I'm already here, I just have to say: those partial bans on this subforum are easily the worst thing to ever happen to this place. It’s like painting a giant target right over people's avatars—it's pretty easy to guess how that ends and who gets screwed in the process.

Those users were just venting their frustrations because they couldn't post here, so they took it to other subforums. Now we've ended up with this whole group of disgruntled forum members, and honestly, it's hard not to feel for them.

I am glad the forum leadership finally stepped up to help out at least a handful of people.

cosmicskipper39 pretty much laid out the whole mess regarding the bans over at PŽK. Honestly, the admins and some of those sub-mods and mods should probably remember that I brought up these exact same points back when I was banned from PŽK myself. It’s actually that same biased, one-sided banning culture at PŽK that the admin hollowtrucker77 used as an excuse to slap me with a permanent ban. Here’s my version of the story:

image

It’s blindingly obvious that I got a permanent ban just because I was posting on the PŽK. It’s also crystal clear—and cosmicskipper39 hit the nail on the head when she pointed this out—that handing out partial bans via the PŽK is incredibly unfair. It basically strips a user of any right to actually appeal a penalty. I made this exact same argument last year, too.

How exactly does my permanent ban stem from posting on the PŽK? I only used that new account specifically to vent about the baseless strikes against my original account, yet I ended up getting banned from the PŽK for the exact same reasons as Byron and Lastan...

Hey, admin team—I’m asking this as nicely as possible.

I’m asking to have my permanent ban and partial ban from the PŽK lifted. I also want to point out three specific things that I believe prove how much I actually care about the quality of this forum. Exhibit A: One of those rare topics that actually made its way from the forum into the mainstream media and brought in a wave of new users. Exhibit B: The rule regarding the punishment for posting private messages. The thread where the debate kicked off: link. And here’s the other side of the coin: link. I wonder how many forum members have knowingly walked straight into the ban corner just to help raise the quality of this community? Exhibit C: The Locahontas account, which I set up specifically to point out flaws in the registration rules. I can't provide the link, unfortunately, because the user was deleted the second it became clear I was behind it. Until then, it was a great addition to the site. How many people currently under a permanent ban have created clones just to offer constructive suggestions for the very rules they were banned for?

I hope these three examples clearly illustrate my intention for using this forum, and I truly hope the administration finds the grace to show some leniency and lift my bans. It takes a lot for me to swallow my pride and make such a public, humble plea for mercy, and I trust the administration won't feel any shame in reversing an unfair, biased ban on the PŽK and the subsequent permanent ban. A year should be plenty of time for all of us to learn from our mistakes and grow. I know it was enough for me.

Best regards,
Slavko
hollowtrucker77 hollowtrucker77 Regular
681 messages
joined Nov 2007
#50 ·
Slavko, let’s get one thing straight so there isn't any confusion here: you were hit with a permanent ban because you wouldn't stop stalking mellowraven22 and leaking his private info, along with a bunch of other stuff that simply has no place on this forum.
And honestly, that was just the tip of the iceberg, so I wouldn't be so quick to throw around the word "unfair" like it actually applies to you.

Since mellowraven22 was the one being targeted, if he decides to lift the ban, that’s entirely on him—I’m not going to step in or argue against it, regardless of how much I dislike people who behave exactly the way you did.
A Anonymous Veteran
3.6K messages
joined May 2005
#51 ·
If you’re claiming that’s why I got banned, then why does the screenshot showing the reason for my ban look nothing like this current explanation?

As for these accusations about leaking personal info—both mellowraven22 and I essentially waived our right to privacy the moment we started showing up to parties and hanging out with the community. My personal details, and honestly myself, were put at much greater risk on several other occasions, yet no one in charge was ever banned for it. In fact, people were free to post whatever they wanted here. I get how bringing up mellowraven22's name might trigger some fear of harassment or whatever, but the damage is negligible since his last name wasn't even mentioned—and besides, I actually shared my own info in that very same post. And no, I didn't write that post to dox anyone; I wrote it to point out how illogical your recent crusade against me actually was.
See, back when mellowraven22 was running the site, I was his network admin. Given how you guys treated me, anyone else would have used that leverage. I didn't, because despite your low opinion of me, that's just not who I am. Just imagine if I had logged in as mellowraven22 and mass-banned all of you. That would have been the absolute bare minimum of chaos I could have caused as an admin. But I didn't. Because I'm really not the piece of trash you take me for. I'm not perfect, and I mess up like everyone else, but when you guys were targeting me and flexing your power, I didn't respond by flexing mine. I responded with posts and private messages. That's how a sane person handles things. You don't just escalate the nonsense. I'll admit I could have handled it better, but I think you'll agree that the same logic applies to both of you.

You slapped me with a partial PŽK ban just for being an advocate for change, even though in my previous post, I laid out the evidence of how I was trying to improve this community. After all that, you just went for the throat. And now, a year later, you're granting amnesty to the users who were "advocating," but not to me. My ban was justified by saying I was posting on PŽK despite a partial ban. Yet, you already admitted those partial bans were unfair. By that same logic, my permanent ban becomes unfair too. While it's clear my message to mellowraven22 wasn't my finest hour, you really ought to review your own actions that led us here. Because let's be honest, those weren't exactly your brightest moments either, were they? 🤷

I’d love to start posting under my original handle again, and I want to apologize to mellowraven22 once more for that post. I also want us to settle this like adults.

I'm mature enough to own up to my mistakes, say sorry, and extend an olive branch.
It's up to you to decide if everything has to be so black and white and whether you'll take my hand.

/handshake/
hollowtrucker77 hollowtrucker77 Regular
681 messages
joined Nov 2007
#52 ·
I honestly think you ought to keep our previous conversations in mind and remember what I told you back then
it’s just not in my nature, nor would I gain a single thing by going out of my way to hunt down or harass you, or anyone else for that matter
if anything, I’m at my happiest when this forum is free from drama and all those other little headaches that ruin a good community vibe

if you feel the need to drag this out, you can take it to a private message, but as far as lifting your ban goes, I’ve already made it clear that I’m leaving that call up to mellowraven22, and there's a reason for that
it isn't because I have some personal vendetta against you; it's more that in the past, whenever someone was coming after me, I was the one deciding whether or not to lift their ban
A Anonymous Veteran
3.6K messages
joined May 2005
#53 ·
hollowtrucker77... You're the one who slapped the permanent ban on me, and here is your reasoning:

image

The words in this screenshot are yours, stating that I’ve been permanently banned because I kept posting despite being under a partial ban on the PŽK.
It was already decided that partial bans on the PŽK are unfair, so they were rolled back for "everyone."
Because of that, my permanent ban is fundamentally unjust—it’s built entirely on top of an unfair partial ban.

Instead of owning up to the mistake today and acknowledging both my arguments and my attempt to make peace, you're just passing the buck to another admin.
A little unprofessional, don't you think?

As for your claim that there was no harassment involved, hey, it's great if you've changed your ways.
But don't forget that I got hit with a multi-month ban from you the second you stepped into that administrator role.
One of the very first things you did as an admin was ban me from the forum. No "hello," no checking my history of warnings, nothing. Just straight to the ban.
And honestly? That's fine. It's human. I was getting on your nerves, and you took the chance to shut me down the moment you had the power. Total guilty pleasure. To be fair, I probably would have done the exact same thing to you if the roles were reversed.
Shortly after that ban expired, you slapped me with a partial ban on the PŽK, which effectively gagged me so I couldn't protest unfair warnings. I stayed quiet about the penalties until I finally received something totally nonsensical.
Since I couldn't appeal using my original account, I made a new one to explain the situation. And that’s when I got hit with the permanent ban.

You know I can't stand being fed lines, and you definitely know what your posts regarding my banning looked like.
I'm assuming you even know who passed them along to me. So—it's not exactly right of you to tell me there was no harassment. We both know the truth.
Water under the bridge, though. I'm not actually holding a grudge against you, nor am I dwelling on it. You reacted like a human being, and I likely would have done the same.

What matters to me is right now.

You issued the partial ban. You issued the permanent ban based on that partial ban. The partial bans have since been pardoned, and the PŽK partial bans were declared unfair.
I am asking you, as the admin who banned me, to follow the forum policy and your own administrative guidelines and lift both bans.

This would give me the chance to apologize to mellowraven22 from the actual account I used when the violation occurred.
If he decides after all of this that I truly don't deserve to have my original account active, then let him permaban me. Period.

Best,
Slavko
hollowtrucker77 hollowtrucker77 Regular
681 messages
joined Nov 2007
#54 ·
My answer is a hard no.
If you really want my two cents, you’ve more than earned a permanent ban at this point, and honestly, all this nonsense with you posting under different names just proves you have zero intention of ever stopping.
mellowraven22, if you decide to lift the ban, I won't be the one complaining, but in my opinion, you actually deserved the hammer much earlier than you finally got it.
A Anonymous Veteran
3.6K messages
joined May 2005
#55 ·
Alright.

It’s honestly absurd that an admin will flat-out refuse to fix their own mistake—especially when the very forum policy they manage explicitly states that it *is* a mistake, and I’ve already laid out the reasoning. It’s just as ridiculous that you’re banning my "clones" and telling me to take my grievances to the ban corner with them, when you’re the one who illegally stripped my original account of those rights without any basis. Look, Slavko wasn't allowed—nor was he able—to appeal through the ban corner until he hit a permanent ban, yet now you're redirecting "clones" there. Why not just give the original account the same access everyone else has? Let us follow the PŽK and, if we get banned, head to the ban corner?

The question that keeps coming up is: What makes me so special? 😕

All this "posting and cloning" is your proof that I "won't stop," but in reality, it's proof that I just want what I've always wanted: equal treatment for everyone. That became pretty obvious to a lot of people during that thread about sharing private messages. Besides, all this "writing and cloning" proves that Slavko truly doesn't have access to the ban corner, nor did he have it at the moment you handed him the permanent ban!

my answer is no
, as far as I'm concerned, you earned that permanent ban a long time ago, and all this posting and cloning is just proof to me that you have no intention of stopping
if mellowraven22 wants to ask for the ban to be lifted, I won't stand in the way, but in my opinion, you earned it way before you actually got it

I don't have the need or gain anything by chasing or harassing you or anyone else

The fact that it's been bolded is proof of the exact harassment you disavowed just a few posts ago. Because of that attitude toward me, you:

1) Slapped me with a long-term ban the second you became an admin (without me ever breaking a rule)
2) Deliberately stripped away my right and privilege to appeal penalties (since I didn't even have access to the ban corner)
3) After taking away the rights and privileges held by every other user on the forum (rights you admitted were unfair), you hit me with a permanent ban.

Those are the facts. That is how you treat me.

You're showing your true colors right now by stubbornly refusing to acknowledge your own mistakes and responsibility in all of this. If you hadn't revoked my right to appeal and my access to the ban corner while I was under penalty, we wouldn't be in this situation. We are both equally responsible for this. The only difference is that I’m owning my part and apologizing for my lapses, hoping you might find the strength to own yours. Without your harassment, I wouldn't be banned, we wouldn't be having this conversation, and mellowraven22 wouldn't have been insulted. Cause and effect.

Once again, I apologize for my own mistakes. Since it's clear you aren't going to change your stance, I'm asking you to leave this account unbanned for just a few hours. Just enough so I can finally send a private message to mellowraven22.

Best,
Slavko 👋

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