Moderation talk

Hey guys, can someone explain why we aren't allowed to talk about the mods in the off-topic section?

Brenda Green62 says it's off-topic. 🤣

But seriously. I’m cool with the mod team, but every now and then someone gets slapped with a warning or a ban just for bringing up how they handled things in the main chat thread over in off-topic. 🙄

They claim it violates the rules, but I honestly don't see it. I'm not playing dumb—I actually sat down and read through the site-wide TOS and the specific sub-rules for the off-topic section, and there isn't a single rule against discussing moderation.

I get it, you shouldn't pick fights with the mods or complain about getting banned right in the thread where you got busted—that's what the FBI is for if things get legal.

But this?

Jeremy Johnson18 said:I took a look at the FBI guidelines. Honestly, I have zero desire to deal with their official policy docs. Half the posts there end up getting flagged anyway.
And the thing is, there are no fine details. They just jump straight to the big milestones like 100, 300, 500, or 1000 strikes. 🤣

So, which rules am I supposedly breaking here? 🍿

Here’s another one.
https://www.reddit.com/r/showthread.php?...3#post81591033

Some post got flagged, and honestly, that’s what pushed me to start this thread.
What rules am I actually breaking by "commenting on moderation" here?

If I really screwed up, fine. Whatever. I’ll take the points and move on.

Look, commenting on moderation isn't allowed on any of the subreddits—except on the FBI's page.
I don't see any need for an argument here.

Regarding your first post, you just got a yellow card, which means no penalty points yet.
You all started badmouthing the moderators on politics, so I stepped in to warn you—and I am repeating myself—with a YELLOW card.

As for your second post, you completely took it out of context.
On the chat, you guys went on for over five pages just talking about moderation.
I warned you twice—I even went as far as explaining the rules when you wouldn't stop.

But apparently, that wasn't enough for you, so I had to start handing out cards.

Look, I’ve only put out three posts total, so let’s not get carried away here.

In two of those, I asked point-blank where this rule is even written, and you couldn't give me an answer. Of course, the posts were deleted, so I can't drop links to everything, but here's what I've got.

Jeremy Johnson18 said:It actually doesn't say that anywhere. 🕺

Brenda Green62 said:It's right there, it's off topic.
You have the whole PDF for that.

So, let me repeat myself one more time: it isn't written down.

I don't care how the ban was issued. I simply asked which specific rules were being used.

Jeremy Johnson18 said:Look, I’ve only made three posts total—don't go exaggerating here.

In two out of those three posts, I specifically asked where this rule was even written, and you couldn't give me an answer. Of course, the posts were deleted, so I can't link everything, but here's what I've got.

So, let me say it one more time: it doesn't say.

I don't care how the warning was issued. I simply asked which rules were being applied.

I said "you all," not "you."
You didn't ask until after I already gave you a warning for arguing with the moderation team—and I told you all that if you kept up with that debate, you'd be dealing with the FBI.

And you did get an answer: it's off topic.

Just wait for the actual admins to step in and decide on this.

Just keep the strike.
I don't cause trouble and I don't have many strikes to begin with, so it’s no big deal.
I'm not looking to get into a fight with you because I actually think you're pretty cool.

Look, I get that there's been a trend lately of handing out penalties for commenting on the mods. Everyone knows that rule exists, so I never gave it much thought.

But then again, strictly speaking, there isn't even a formal rule against it. 😬

Besides, the chat in the off-topic section can't really go "off-topic" if nobody is actually breaking any rules.

I was just looking through this;

http://www.reddit.com/r/showthread.php?t=783730

Discussing moderator warnings directly within the thread where the warning was issued.

There was a time when they used;

The "warning card" system is gone. You can forget about receiving a simple strike—now, even the slightest provocation, insult, challenging the staff by attacking moderators within threads, or bringing them up in a negative light will result in immediate bans or partial suspensions.

While the rule against discussing moderation isn't explicitly spelled out in the general guidelines, there are penalties for it—and it generally applies to all subreddits except for those under the FBI's jurisdiction...
http://www.reddit.com/r/showthread.php?t=818054

Like I said, strictly speaking, nobody actually broke any rules here.

Nobody showed up to complain that the X moderator is an idiot, handing out too many bans, or acting like the discipline is unjustified, blah blah blah...

Plus, you can't just drop random questions in the chat; if it's off topic, it stays off topic. 🤦

Anthony Nguyen81 said:I was just looking at this;

http://www.reddit.com/showthread.php?t=783730

Basically, you can't argue with moderator warnings right inside the thread where they posted them.

It used to be like this;

They don't really do warning cards anymore. You can pretty much forget about those. Now, even the tiniest thing—like being provocative, insulting someone, talking back to the mods in a thread, or bringing up other admins in a bad light—that'll get you hit with a ban or a partial suspension immediately.

The rule against arguing with the staff isn't explicitly spelled out in the main handbook, but there are rules for it, and it generally applies to all the subreddits except maybe the
FBI threads... http://www.reddit.com/showthread.php?t=818054

There are also the general guidelines which have some pretty weird stuff in them. 🍿

What's banned on the site?

1. Posting porn, erotic content, or softcore stuff, plus violence and linking to any of that junk.
2. Acting stupid. 🤣

Jeremy Johnson18 said:Like I said, if you look at it technically, nobody actually broke any rules.

No one went around saying "X is an idiot," or "this mod is tripping," or "this warning is unfair," or whatever... that kind of stuff wasn't said.

From what I can tell, the rule about "commenting on moderation" doesn't just mean attacking the people in charge, but it also covers questioning their actual decisions. ☕

Nicholas Kelly3 said:From what I can tell, critiquing moderation isn't just about attacking the mods themselves, it’s also about questioning the actual decisions they make. ☕

You understood one thing, I understood another, and she understood a third...

There’s no written rule against it, so I have no clue why you got that impression.

I agree that the FBI sub-forum is the perfect spot for debating ban policies, appeals, or mod calls. If those threads were scattered across every other thread on Reddit, it would be an off-topic nightmare and impossible to manage.
I also get that being toxic or negative isn't great anywhere, even on the FBI board, but hey, people need an outlet.

But on the general chat threads, especially when we're on-topic, there should be some leeway for a few comments as long as they aren't fueling hate speech, insulting users, or causing real drama.
A mod should be able to tell the difference between some lighthearted banter in a chill atmosphere and someone actually trying to start a massive riot.

If mentioning moderation is such a huge taboo that you can't even bring it up, then please, just put it in the rules.
At least then we’d actually know why we’re getting banned.

Jeremy Johnson18 said:I think you took one thing from this, I saw something else entirely, and she probably saw a third thing altogether...

There isn't even a written rule, so I guess I don't know why you're getting that vibe.

Look, in my experience, I've had posts just vanish or dealt with moderator consequences without ever actually calling out a mod by name. It happens. So, I guess what I'm saying is that the way some of these rules are worded makes them super open to interpretation by whatever admin or moderator is on duty at the time.

Jeremy Johnson18 said:Just keep the ban.
I don't cause trouble and I don't have many bans to begin with, so it's really not a huge deal.
I honestly don't want to get into an argument with you—you're dear to me.

Look, it's been understood for a long time that commenting on the mods gets you penalized. Everyone knows that rule exists, so I've never really given it much thought.

But, technically speaking—and this is where it gets messy—there isn't actually a rule. 😬

Also, the chat in the Off-Topic section can't truly go "off-topic," unless someone is actually breaking specific rules.

You basically answered your own question in bold.
That's the rule on every single sub-forum, including Off-Topic.

Just because a sub-forum is called "Off-Topic" doesn't mean there aren't rules to follow.
You even linked them yourself.

Jeremy Johnson18 said:But in a chat thread, especially in Off-Topic, there should be some tolerance for a few comments—provided they aren't inciting hate, insulting users, or causing more issues.
A moderator should probably be able to tell the difference between some casual banter in a relaxed atmosphere and starting a massive, low-class feud.

Of course I tolerate comments about moderation if it's just "light" stuff. Not everything needs an immediate penalty.

But the vibe in that thread wasn't "banterous" or "relaxed"—it was straight-up mutual sniping, provocation, and insults to the point where I had to lock the chat.

As far as commenting on the mods goes, I've looked the other way for you plenty of times (and others too), and you know that—because it wasn't malicious and it didn't drive up the tension.

Nicholas Kelly3 said:Look, in my experience, I’ve managed to get warnings before—usually just having my posts vanish without much fanfare—and even faced consequences from mod action without ever directly calling out a moderator. It just goes to show that the way some of these rules are phrased leaves way too much room for interpretation by whoever is running the show.

I’ve dealt with warnings and deleted posts myself.
Never had beef with the mods, and I’ve never been banned against my will. I haven't complained about "cards" being handed out, mostly because they aren't even really a thing.

Usually, chat conversations drift toward complaining about how certain subreddits aren't normal, how some users have bias on Zion, or how politics is used to hand out bans left and right.
It’s just standard stuff we talk about when we’re bored and looking for something to do. If a post disappears, you just take the hit and move on. 😬

That was my mindset until I realized there actually aren't any real rules.

I'm not trying to be difficult here, I'm genuinely asking: where is this rule everyone keeps whining about?

It's a pretty straightforward question.

Brenda Green62 said:Looks like you answered your own question.
Rules apply to every sub on Reddit, including the Off Topic section.

Just because a sub is called "Off Topic" doesn't mean there aren't rules to follow.
You linked them yourself.

Give me a break, Brenda Green62. You're taking things out of context just to troll me in front of everyone.

How am I supposed to link a rule when I literally just said I couldn't find it?

Jeremy Johnson18 said:Look, Brenda Green62, please. You're taking my words completely out of context just to troll me in front of everyone.

How was I supposed to link the rule when I clearly stated I couldn't find it?

I’m talking about the PDF guidelines.
Basically, the off-topic section follows the same rules as the rest of the site.
If commenting on the mods is banned everywhere else, then it's banned on the off-topic boards too.

As for those unwritten rules—you'll just have to wait for the admins to weigh in.

Brenda Green62 said:I’m talking about the sub rules.
Basically, the off-topic threads have the same rules as the rest of the site.
If criticizing the mods is banned everywhere else, it's banned here too.

As for the unwritten rules, you'll have to wait for the admins to weigh in.

That’s exactly my point. What I’m saying—the stuff we aren't supposed to do—isn't actually written down anywhere. 😬

Despite posts like this:

Brenda Green62 said:It says right here, it's off-topic.

Brenda Green62 said:You can't talk about the mods in any thread except on the FBI one.

Brenda Green62 said:You can't do that here; it violates the rules.

Look, I get why you want to moderate like that, but honestly, if that's how it's going to be, I'd just ask that the rulebook be updated to reflect it. At least then we wouldn't be guessing.

Not everything can be strictly codified or written down—some things simply have to be understood through nuance and verbal context.🙂

Once you commit something to writing, you’ve essentially set a rigid standard that demands much stricter moderation.
It is far better to gauge the general vibe of a conversation rather than policing every single comma.

Furthermore, dealing with someone like Josh is significantly more entertaining than listening to the endless cycle of complaints about unfair bans or claims of being targeted.
Everything has its limit.

Anthony Nguyen81 said:Not everything can be strictly defined or written down; some stuff just happens organically via conversation.🙂

If you put it in writing, you’re boxed in, and that means much harsher moderation.
It's better to judge the vibe rather than nitpicking every single comma.

Also, hanging out with Josh is way more fun than dealing with people constantly whining about being unfairly banned or claiming they're being targeted.
Everything needs its limits.

Since we’re already handing out punishments, we might as well put them in the rules.
Half the rules get broken constantly anyway, so some people slip through regardless—but at least everyone knows what the lines are.

The debate from today actually made sense, but obviously, all the posts were nuked because talking about this is off-limits. I don't personally mind, but I totally get why it happens.

To quote a user I really respect:

They usually delete the interesting stuff and leave behind nothing but watered-down lemonade.

Then the chat is pretty much useless.

Maybe I'll just lay low too, so I don't end up on someone's blacklist or lose my whole account like Elon Musk did. It sucks when you don't even have the right to walk away to the FBI. 🤣🤣

Just my two cents on the whole situation...
Most churches in the States don't even bother putting up signs saying you can't walk in wearing a swimsuit, yet most people still follow the unspoken rules. They do it because they know it’s just common sense. If someone actually didn't know or decided to play dumb, someone would call them out, and they'd either have to go fix their outfit or get kicked out. This applies to pretty much any church, not just those few spots in touristy coastal towns where they stick a sign at the door just to stop people from being opportunistic.
It's the exact same deal here. If the moderators tell people what isn't acceptable, then it's not acceptable. From what I've seen of how this all went down, Brenda Green62 already handled it. Insisting that everything has to be explicitly written in the rulebook is just unnecessary. This Reddit isn't a sovereign nation where you're allowed to do whatever you want just because it isn't specifically forbidden.

We don't actually have any rules posted at the entrance of the church, just on Reddit.

Look, I actually dig your perspective.
She’s a moderator and thinks we shouldn't even be talking about this, so yeah, she's standing her ground. 👍

I guess I got a bit worked up by the claim that the rules are clearly written out, which is straight-up a lie.
If she had just been upfront about wanting it that way, I wouldn't have even started this thread like I always do.

The whole point of this mess was: where are these "official" rules that everyone is supposedly looking at?
It sounds like a dumb question, but you can't even bring it up in the off-topic chat without getting banned.
Been there, done that. 🕺

The reality is, they aren't there, yet we're still being moderated by them.

Thanks for jumping in, everyone. Hopefully, we managed to give you all a good laugh at my expense and make your day on the site a little better.