Religion classes in school - Megathread

Lawrence Torres56 said:Look, those are just excuses, not actual reasons,
so what if someone "might" say something? It's a big deal, right? 🤣
If we follow that logic, does someone just jump off a skyscraper because some random guy on the street tells them they should?
Or, are we really any better than the people who would supposedly "label" us, considering we basically think anyone from a different background is somehow less important, so we're just terrified of being lumped in with them? 🤔

Who’s to say it’s about "discomfort" and not just straight-up human stupidity?
That weird human urge to just gossip around and stay silent when we actually ought to speak up... it's just a sign that these people are more interested in following the herd than actually forming their own thoughts.
It’s like what Gustave Le Bon said way back when:
"The ease with which certain opinions become common stems from the inability of the majority to form their own opinions based on their own reasoning."

They won't "maybe" say it; they definitely will. Besides, even if someone doesn't fall for it, they'll certainly pass those same lines down to their kids. That's where the sudden passion for social activism really kicks in.

mistydrifter55 said:What is all this yapping about? 🤣

At my local school, at least back when we were enrolling, nobody ever bothered to ask if we wanted religious studies held on campus or over at a church.

It was just a checkbox on the registration form: do you want religious education, extra German classes, or nothing at all?

Basically, nobody asks you anything.
Parents aren't even consulted on where those religious classes should actually take place.
So, what kind of "voting" are you people talking about if nobody is even allowed to speak up against the established rules?

Back when I was in school, the local public schools and churches worked hand-in-hand on religious studies. They practically swapped attendance records for sacraments effortlessly. Mass was always scheduled right at the start or end of the school year, and missing them resulted in unfair absences...

Oh, absolutely. Plusic—who even attended Mass? It seems they only "tolerated" one Senada and one Busolajdzica skipping service. Even those two actually sat through religious studies class, believe it or not. Muslims. (Refugees, just arrived from Canada, I suppose—probably trying too hard to blend in)

nimblelynx7 said:They won't "maybe" say it; they definitely will. Besides, even if someone doesn't fall for it, they'll certainly pass those same lines down to their kids. That's where the sudden passion for social activism really kicks in.

Back when I was in school, the local public schools and churches worked hand-in-hand on religious studies. They practically swapped attendance records for sacraments effortlessly. Mass was always scheduled right at the start or end of the school year, and missing them resulted in unfair absences...

Look, we aren't raising kids to live and die by what everyone else thinks; we're raising them to build their own damn perspectives.
And honestly, if a kid ends up traumatized just because someone suggested they skip religious studies class, then the parents really dropped the ball here, don't you think? They ought to take a long, hard look in the mirror and ask themselves what they actually did to themselves and their own kid to leave them that vulnerable.

So, if a kid ends up traumatized because they were called fat or anything else like that, does that mean the parents also dropped the ball?

It’s almost like victims of bullying and abuse are somehow to blame just because it gets to them.

rowdypanther12 said:So, if a kid ends up traumatized because they were called fat or anything else like that, does that mean the parents also dropped the ball?

It’s almost like victims of bullying and abuse are somehow to blame just because it gets to them.

Of course, but we aren't talking about the parents of the people being mocked—we're talking about their parents. There will always be fools and lowlifes who vent their frustrations through mockery, smear campaigns, or outright aggression. That is a massive failure on the part of those pathetic individuals' parents. Otherwise, I am in complete agreement with Lawrence Torres56...

rowdypanther12 said:So, if a kid ends up traumatized because they were called fat or anything else like that, does that mean the parents also dropped the ball?

It’s almost like victims of bullying and abuse are somehow to blame just because it gets to them.

Henry Gonzalez67 just hit you back with a reply.

So, at the end of the day, isn't it really up to us to decide which path we’re steering our kids toward? Are we going to raise them to be hypersensitive to every bit of aggression and low-brow nonsense they encounter, or are we actually going to teach them how to hold their heads high and be proud of who they are, without letting themselves get bogged down by everyone else's bitterness and malice?

Lawrence Torres56 said:Look, we aren't raising kids to live and die by what everyone else thinks; we're raising them to build their own damn perspectives.
And honestly, if a kid ends up traumatized just because someone suggested they skip religious studies class, then the parents really dropped the ball here, don't you think? They ought to take a long, hard look in the mirror and ask themselves what they actually did to themselves and their own kid to leave them that vulnerable.

I totally see where you're coming from, but I don't think it's quite that black and white.
When it comes to teenagers, it’s an ongoing process of learning, and it hits its peak during those school years.
The examples kids see around them—no matter how painful they might be—actually serve as valuable lessons. It gives them a chance to realize what's happening and teaches them how to stand up for themselves.

BUT when kids first start elementary school around age seven, everything is new. They're meeting classmates for the first time and just want to fit in so they can make it through the next eight years. In those early stages, it isn't nearly as simple as it sounds.
Plus, you often hear kids in religious classes saying things to their non-religious peers that they don't even fully grasp themselves.

From my many years of working directly with children, I've noticed that the kids in religious classes are actually more likely to tease the ones who aren't, rather than the other way around. Statistically speaking, it makes sense since there are usually more students in those programs.

It is much easier to step in and handle bullying over physical stuff—like weight, glasses, clothing, or even family struggles like a parent struggling with addiction... tangible things you can address. It's much harder to deal with a kid being teased because they'll "go to hell" for skipping religious class, or won't get straight A's because they aren't following certain doctrines (concepts that even the religious kids don't fully understand yet).

And it doesn't even have to be direct teasing. Sometimes, kids will talk about the "Holy Spirit" helping them study, and they'll share that with a friend in a non-religious class—maybe with good intentions, or maybe just out of typical childhood curiosity. Suddenly, that other kid is left wondering what's going to happen to them, even though they have no idea what the Holy Spirit even is.

Do we really need this kind of dynamic for any child at the very beginning of their schooling?

Lawrence Torres56 said:Henry Gonzalez67 just hit you back with a reply.

So, at the end of the day, isn't it really up to us to decide which path we’re steering our kids toward? Are we going to raise them to be hypersensitive to every bit of aggression and low-brow nonsense they encounter, or are we actually going to teach them how to hold their heads high and be proud of who they are, without letting themselves get bogged down by everyone else's bitterness and malice?

is true, but I didn't ask him because he hadn't actually mentioned

If a child ends up traumatized just because someone tells them they don't have to attend religious studies, then the parents really dropped the ball and should probably look at how they raised their kid.

I was asking you, though—do you think victims are to blame if they feel hurt by being mocked?

My own kid doesn't mind being told about hell or having to believe in God since He created her, but personally, I don't take it too seriously. That's why I don't think a child feeling hurt by those things is solely their fault, nor is it necessarily the fault of their parents.

Susan James said:I totally see where you're coming from, but I don't think it's quite that black and white.
When it comes to teenagers, it’s an ongoing process of learning, and it hits its peak during those school years.
The examples kids see around them—no matter how painful they might be—actually serve as valuable lessons. It gives them a chance to realize what's happening and teaches them how to stand up for themselves.

BUT when kids first start elementary school around age seven, everything is new. They're meeting classmates for the first time and just want to fit in so they can make it through the next eight years. In those early stages, it isn't nearly as simple as it sounds.
Plus, you often hear kids in religious classes saying things to their non-religious peers that they don't even fully grasp themselves.

From my many years of working directly with children, I've noticed that the kids in religious classes are actually more likely to tease the ones who aren't, rather than the other way around. Statistically speaking, it makes sense since there are usually more students in those programs.

It is much easier to step in and handle bullying over physical stuff—like weight, glasses, clothing, or even family struggles like a parent struggling with addiction... tangible things you can address. It's much harder to deal with a kid being teased because they'll "go to hell" for skipping religious class, or won't get straight A's because they aren't following certain doctrines (concepts that even the religious kids don't fully understand yet).

And it doesn't even have to be direct teasing. Sometimes, kids will talk about the "Holy Spirit" helping them study, and they'll share that with a friend in a non-religious class—maybe with good intentions, or maybe just out of typical childhood curiosity. Suddenly, that other kid is left wondering what's going to happen to them, even though they have no idea what the Holy Spirit even is.

Do we really need this kind of dynamic for any child at the very beginning of their schooling?

You’re mistaken there; if you explain to your little one early on that our family doesn't subscribe to the whole God and devil thing, then the concept of hell carries absolutely zero weight for them. Kids at seven years old don't have a clue what hell even is, so naturally, they haven't developed any fear of it... fear, just like hatred, is something we parents instill in them.
We are believers, and my kid goes to religious ed, so if I ever bring up hell or burning, they’ll probably just laugh in my face—not because they’re religious, but because we never planted that seed of fear in them to begin with.

Bullying isn't really about whether a kid is religious or not; it’s about how they were raised. Someone who mocks a peer for skipping religious ed would just as easily mock them for having a blue pencil instead of a red one or using X instead of Y.

Besides, kids today are all over the place with after-school activities, everyone learns differently, and they all have different knowledge bases and grades, yet they don't sit there worrying about what's going to happen to them just because their classmate knows something they don't... I’ve certainly never noticed that being a burden on them... so, I really don't get why they’d suddenly start stressing over some Holy Spirit they don't believe in.

And, if we’re actually asking whether any kid needs this at the start of school, maybe we parents should be asking ourselves if any kid needs our own frustrations, our hate, our intolerance, and our prejudices... etcetera, etcetera. Where does it end? What are we actually teaching them? Even if you wiped religious ed from the schools tomorrow, none of this would vanish; it would just shift to something else, like T-shirts, hairstyles, or hair ties... and what have we actually accomplished?

Honestly, I went through absolute hell in elementary school because of religious studies classes. Just thinking about 👎 I think I was the only kid in all four grades who didn't attend, plus there was this one Muslim boy in our class who skipped it too. But man, I felt targeted. For eight whole years, everyone was constantly on my case, asking, "Why don't you go to religion class?" On top of that, I was such a shy, withdrawn kid back then. It really left a mark on me. My mom actually had to go talk to the principal when I started school because there wasn't any official option for me other than sitting in the hallway, so they agreed I could stay in the classroom and just do something else, like my homework. But even then, during prayer time, everyone would turn around and stare at me while they prayed—whispering, glancing, just total playground terror. Later on, they started asking if I was Muslim, and when I told them no, they’d just say, "Yeah, right, we don't believe you." Kids aren't to blame, obviously—they just repeat what they hear at home—but I lived in an environment, specifically in New York City, where almost everyone was deeply religious, and that makes such a huge difference. We even had those days where they'd bless bread in the hallway; all the students would gather around the priest for the blessing, and I’d just sit there feeling so incredibly awkward because everyone was looking at me. When you grow up feeling like you never quite fit into the crowd, it becomes such a heavy burden to carry... I couldn't wait to leave, and I finally felt like I could breathe again once I hit high school. I didn't say anything to my mom when I was little; she didn't even realize how much I was struggling, and honestly, I didn't fully understand it myself either. I just knew I felt uncomfortable whenever religion class rolled around. On the days we didn't have it, we all felt like "one of them," but the moment that class showed up... ugh, it was awful.
I definitely don't want my future child to go through something like that, but at the same time, I don't see myself enrolling them in those classes.

Look, it’s not the same thing every single day.
One day someone’s gonna laugh at them for being a target, and the next, they’ll just head home and break down in tears.
At the end of the day, parents can't just manufacture a kid's personality for them. 🤷
And what am I supposed to tell her? That hell isn't real? Telling her that doesn't exactly guarantee she won't feel insulted or hurt by what happened.

granitewolf20 said:Look, it’s not the same thing every single day.
One day someone’s gonna laugh at them for being a target, and the next, they’ll just head home and break down in tears.
At the end of the day, parents can't just manufacture a kid's personality for them. 🤷
And what am I supposed to tell her? That hell isn't real? Telling her that doesn't exactly guarantee she won't feel insulted or hurt by what happened.

How is a kid even supposed to distinguish between something meant for someone else and an actual insult directed at them?

I don't know, maybe it's just me being silly, but saying "I won't play with you because you don't believe in God and you're going to hell" could definitely be taken as an insult 🤔

And kids don't really hang out and talk to each other much anyway—so, I mean, has anyone actually sat them down and explained that hell is basically just a place where the devil grills anyone who doesn't believe in Jesus? ☕

rowdypanther12 said:I don't know, maybe it's just me being silly, but saying "I won't play with you because you don't believe in God and you're going to hell" could definitely be taken as an insult 🤔

But honestly, is that even an insult? Isn't it more like a clear sign of what kind of friends you actually have around you? 👍

Plus, do you guys seriously think kids at school are sitting around debating theology, or are they actually talking about video games and crushes? 😍

I don't think so—I actually know they're talking about it because my daughter passed the conversations along to me.

Quincy:

Lawrence Torres56 I can't even begin to process what they just said. Seriously. It’s like some people just wake up and decide to be completely disconnected from reality. I'm sitting here staring at my screen, rubbing my temples, thinking, "Is this guy for real?" It's honestly exhausting dealing with this kind of nonsense. Every time I think we've hit rock bottom with these discussions, someone comes along and digs a hole right under us. Just... wow. Typical. Honestly, it’s not even an insult. It’s just a massive red flag showing exactly what kind of people he hangs out with.👍 And besides, do you guys seriously think kids in school are actually sitting around talking about religious stuff? Like, give me a break. It’s all video games and crushes. That's it. 😍

Look, it’s always a mess when a friend suddenly turns on you like that. It's tough, I get it. But honestly? Most of the time, they’re just acting out because of all that stupid stuff they were raised with. It's just human stupidity, passed down from parents to kids. Typical.
Yeah, they’re talking. You wouldn't think so just looking at them, but they're definitely talking.

There’s actually something pretty sweet about it when everyone acts normal.
For instance, my little girl was sitting there with her "boyfriend," seriously discussing their future together—like whether they'd baptize their kids one day or if they'd attend church. 😂
They even decided they would have them baptized, but they'd only show up to church for Christmas mass. 😂I honestly couldn't stop laughing while she was telling me all about it. 😁
So yeah, let's not jump to conclusions and assume kids don't talk about this stuff.

rowdypanther12 said:I don't think so—I actually know they're talking about it because my daughter passed the conversations along to me.

I’m with you on this one.
I already wrote a whole other page about this exact thing.

Lawrence Torres56 said:Look, we aren't raising kids to live and die by what everyone else thinks; we're raising them to build their own damn perspectives.
And honestly, if a kid ends up traumatized just because someone suggested they skip religious studies class, then the parents really dropped the ball here, don't you think? They ought to take a long, hard look in the mirror and ask themselves what they actually did to themselves and their own kid to leave them that vulnerable.

You're right on that point, but it’s never that simple when it’s your own flesh and blood. The Church knows exactly how to exploit that, which is why they play the games they do.