Russia's invasion of Ukraine: Part 5

DzonziBG said:Not everyone, but plenty have perished... and there's no point hiding that now...

All those people dying for nothing, without any real shot at turning the tide. It’s just such a waste of young lives...

The end result of all this? Nothing. Just a river of blood, followed by some crooks sitting down to sign a piece of paper...

Hoping for some massive shift that thwarts Russ is a pretty thin hope...

This whole war is just a moronic, criminal move by both sides. That’s why nobody actually believed it would happen (except the CIA). People felt they had a point when Obama suggested Putin was cracking under pressure. Well, he popped like popcorn, but that isn't an excuse—hardly any world leader doesn't deal with pressure.
It's a massive failure on the part of his intelligence agencies; a catastrophic decision driven by head-nodding and Putin feeling backed into a corner.

Edit: There's no turning back now, and Macron is right to see the danger. He's basically the only one talking to Putin, constantly insisting we need to give him a "dignified exit" so he can claim victory. It's going to be incredibly difficult.
Honestly, I'd rather he didn't talk to him at all, especially after he directly supported my opponent and spent the beginning mocking us (the entire EU, including Macron himself).

Putin would basically be the greatest leader in Russian history if he actually pulled off getting his country into the European Union. 😁

Kick the British and the US out, and let Russia in. 😁

At that point, NATO becomes pretty much pointless. 😁

electrichawk94 said:Putin would basically be the greatest leader in Russian history if he actually pulled off getting his country into the European Union. 😁

Kick the British and the US out, and let Russia in. 😁

At that point, NATO becomes pretty much pointless. 😁

That’s the only reason to bother playing this supposed "4D chess" game—because it's supposedly so incredibly difficult. If you can actually outmaneuver the USA and the UK, which are arguably the smartest political opponents on the field, then sure, you've earned the top spot.
It's way easier to just build a closed-off autocracy and flex your muscles.

Mods and admins, could you please set up a poll?

I’ve been eager to fix my blunder. I accidentally clicked Russia on part four because I misread the question—I thought it was asking who we blame rather than who we support... 😵

I assumed I'd have to wait until we hit 500 pages, but it looks like we're already at 480. 😁

Noah Ward2 said:Wait, what kind of choice do they actually have?

Let's say the younger generation wants to join the European Union. Then Putin comes along and tells them, "Sure, you can join, but only if you leave behind half your country—the part that actually holds all the industrial and energy potential."

What kind of agreement are we talking about where people aren't dying?

Right now, the options feel incredibly limited...

The only way to save Ukraine was this delicate balancing act between Russia and the European Union, without ever joining NATO, while also pushing back against the English and Americans who just want to use them as pawns on a chessboard...

There’s also a huge influence from the media, culture, and the internet... kids see how life is in the West and assume it'll be the same for them, whereas the older generation remembers the Soviet era and, honestly, mostly looks back on it fondly...

When you factor in all the internal divisions within the country itself, you'd need a literal magician to keep everything held together...

What we're seeing now is arguably the worst-case scenario... It's like the wars in the North America, but ten times worse. Ukrainians and Russians are so deeply intertwined, having lived in the same country for hundreds of years with the same culture... In a broader sense, this is a Pan-Slavic tragedy that might only bring joy to the truly wicked...

nimblemoose2 said:Mods and admins, could you please set up a poll?

I’ve been eager to fix my blunder. I accidentally clicked Russia on part four because I misread the question—I thought it was asking who we blame rather than who we support... 😵

I assumed I'd have to wait until we hit 500 pages, but it looks like we're already at 480. 😁

It's over, Bubochka. You've been branded for life. 😉

George Robinson43 said:It's over, Bubochka. You've been branded for life. 😉

Feel free to check the version from before the 4th. Look at how I voted back then if you think I'm flipping sides, or just look at any of my other posts in this thread.

☕

electrichawk94 said:Putin would basically be the greatest leader in Russian history if he actually pulled off getting his country into the European Union. 😁

Kick the British and the US out, and let Russia in. 😁

At that point, NATO becomes pretty much pointless. 😁

And don't even get me started on those US think tanks—those guys probably need blood pressure medication just thinking about this stuff.

It’s a total nightmare scenario for both the USA and China. Imagine Russia teaming up with Germany, and maybe even France too. Honestly, China might be all for it at first, just to screw over the USA, but those communists would quickly realize it doesn't actually serve their interests. That would be one hell of a pact right there.

BTW, Aryan, watch the clock. Peace. 😘

rowdytiger13 said:This whole war is just a moronic, criminal move by both sides. That’s why nobody actually believed it would happen (except the CIA). People felt they had a point when Obama suggested Putin was cracking under pressure. Well, he popped like popcorn, but that isn't an excuse—hardly any world leader doesn't deal with pressure.
It's a massive failure on the part of his intelligence agencies; a catastrophic decision driven by head-nodding and Putin feeling backed into a corner.

Edit: There's no turning back now, and Macron is right to see the danger. He's basically the only one talking to Putin, constantly insisting we need to give him a "dignified exit" so he can claim victory. It's going to be incredibly difficult.
Honestly, I'd rather he didn't talk to him at all, especially after he directly supported my opponent and spent the beginning mocking us (the entire EU, including Macron himself).

I also feel like this was a poor decision on Putin's part...

Even if he manages to walk away with a nominal victory, the cost is going to be incredibly high, and it might take a long time before things ever return to normal...

One thing that could push this all into the background is a conflict between Americans and the Chinese, which wouldn't be ruled out at all. That would likely be the biggest conflict of this century; it's just a matter of when it finally explodes.

I still tend to think that the Germans and the French seem to be the most reasonable ones here, but they don't have much of a say, I suppose. The English and the Americans are the ones running the show, and they’ll be the ones deciding when to tell Kyiv that enough is enough...

Noah Ward2 said:I also feel like this was a poor decision on Putin's part...

Even if he manages to walk away with a nominal victory, the cost is going to be incredibly high, and it might take a long time before things ever return to normal...

One thing that could push this all into the background is a conflict between Americans and the Chinese, which wouldn't be ruled out at all. That would likely be the biggest conflict of this century; it's just a matter of when it finally explodes.

I still tend to think that the Germans and the French seem to be the most reasonable ones here, but they don't have much of a say, I suppose. The English and the Americans are the ones running the show, and they’ll be the ones deciding when to tell Kyiv that enough is enough...

Germany has completely lost the plot; they're politically tone-deaf. I actually think they're a great people, but there's just no helping them. Then you've got the French.
The Chinese aren't like the Russians. After Putin's latest mess, they backed off. Their response was sharp and unified, and they won't touch Taiwan until they've waited for the right moment. That isn't an issue for them.
The real problem with China is how difficult they are to bait into a mistake.
Personally, I think the world is fracturing, and that divide is already happening. China is clearly the number two superpower now.
Putin has effectively knocked both Russia and the EU out of the race.

Noah Ward2 said:I also feel like this was a poor decision on Putin's part...

Even if he manages to walk away with a nominal victory, the cost is going to be incredibly high, and it might take a long time before things ever return to normal...

One thing that could push this all into the background is a conflict between Americans and the Chinese, which wouldn't be ruled out at all. That would likely be the biggest conflict of this century; it's just a matter of when it finally explodes.

I still tend to think that the Germans and the French seem to be the most reasonable ones here, but they don't have much of a say, I suppose. The English and the Americans are the ones running the show, and they’ll be the ones deciding when to tell Kyiv that enough is enough...

I’m with you on this one—totally agree.
"Quote:"

Noah Ward2 said:I also feel like this was a poor decision on Putin's part...

Even if he manages to walk away with a nominal victory, the cost is going to be incredibly high, and it might take a long time before things ever return to normal...

One thing that could push this all into the background is a conflict between Americans and the Chinese, which wouldn't be ruled out at all. That would likely be the biggest conflict of this century; it's just a matter of when it finally explodes.

I still tend to think that the Germans and the French seem to be the most reasonable ones here, but they don't have much of a say, I suppose. The English and the Americans are the ones running the show, and they’ll be the ones deciding when to tell Kyiv that enough is enough...

Maybe you aren't seeing it, but everyone following this stuff is basically calling out Germany for this—we’re all pointing fingers. And let me tell you, those Germans? They don't just sweep things under the rug. Not a chance. They remember everything.

Noah Ward2 said:I also feel like this was a poor decision on Putin's part...

Even if he manages to walk away with a nominal victory, the cost is going to be incredibly high, and it might take a long time before things ever return to normal...

One thing that could push this all into the background is a conflict between Americans and the Chinese, which wouldn't be ruled out at all. That would likely be the biggest conflict of this century; it's just a matter of when it finally explodes.

I still tend to think that the Germans and the French seem to be the most reasonable ones here, but they don't have much of a say, I suppose. The English and the Americans are the ones running the show, and they’ll be the ones deciding when to tell Kyiv that enough is enough...

That would be an absolute global catastrophe—and honestly, we wouldn't even be getting close to the actual conflict we see now. I mean, think about it... both sides would just go all-in on AI and whatever cutting-edge tech we've managed to scrape together. We’re talking about a total nightmare scenario—a mother of all wars that ends in a complete economic meltdown. Let's just not leave that kind of mess for our kids to clean up, okay?

Noah Ward2 said:I also feel like this was a poor decision on Putin's part...

Even if he manages to walk away with a nominal victory, the cost is going to be incredibly high, and it might take a long time before things ever return to normal...

One thing that could push this all into the background is a conflict between Americans and the Chinese, which wouldn't be ruled out at all. That would likely be the biggest conflict of this century; it's just a matter of when it finally explodes.

I still tend to think that the Germans and the French seem to be the most reasonable ones here, but they don't have much of a say, I suppose. The English and the Americans are the ones running the show, and they’ll be the ones deciding when to tell Kyiv that enough is enough...

I’m always telling you this! It’s like I’ve said a million times—Putin is playing right into their hands, and he's doing it specifically to screw us over here in the European Union.

"Quote:"

rowdytiger13 said:Germany has completely lost the plot; they're politically tone-deaf. I actually think they're a great people, but there's just no helping them. Then you've got the French.
The Chinese aren't like the Russians. After Putin's latest mess, they backed off. Their response was sharp and unified, and they won't touch Taiwan until they've waited for the right moment. That isn't an issue for them.
The real problem with China is how difficult they are to bait into a mistake.
Personally, I think the world is fracturing, and that divide is already happening. China is clearly the number two superpower now.
Putin has effectively knocked both Russia and the EU out of the race.

Signed. Honestly, who knows where we’ll be in ten years? They aren't exactly rushing into anything—probably because they're too busy trying to act like they're the next Peter the Great.

rowdytiger13 said:Germany has completely lost the plot; they're politically tone-deaf. I actually think they're a great people, but there's just no helping them. Then you've got the French.
The Chinese aren't like the Russians. After Putin's latest mess, they backed off. Their response was sharp and unified, and they won't touch Taiwan until they've waited for the right moment. That isn't an issue for them.
The real problem with China is how difficult they are to bait into a mistake.
Personally, I think the world is fracturing, and that divide is already happening. China is clearly the number two superpower now.
Putin has effectively knocked both Russia and the EU out of the race.

China is definitely the biggest challenge we face... what's happening in Ukraine is almost trivial compared to the kind of chaos that might come from dealing with them...

Instead of the West trying to strike a deal with Putin over the last 20 years to keep a lid on the Chinese before they became too powerful, they've just let them expand. Meanwhile, they're busy fighting a Cold War with Russia, which isn't even the main player in the global picture anymore...

Now that Putin has finally lost his patience, everyone is panicking... unfortunately, it looks like the big winners in all of this will be the Chinese...

Noah Ward2 said:China is definitely the biggest challenge we face... what's happening in Ukraine is almost trivial compared to the kind of chaos that might come from dealing with them...

Instead of the West trying to strike a deal with Putin over the last 20 years to keep a lid on the Chinese before they became too powerful, they've just let them expand. Meanwhile, they're busy fighting a Cold War with Russia, which isn't even the main player in the global picture anymore...

Now that Putin has finally lost his patience, everyone is panicking... unfortunately, it looks like the big winners in all of this will be the Chinese...

I already told you that this effectively knocks both Russia and the European Union out of the race.
The world is headed toward—or rather, is already stuck with—two superpowers: the USA and China.
Europe is just resetting to its factory settings. Let's be real, they've always lived under Big Brother's umbrella. As for Russia? They're moving under China's wing, regardless of whether people call it a partnership or a friendship (which is basically what the relationship between the USA and the EU is anyway).

rowdytiger13 said:I already told you that this effectively knocks both Russia and the European Union out of the race.
The world is headed toward—or rather, is already stuck with—two superpowers: the USA and China.
Europe is just resetting to its factory settings. Let's be real, they've always lived under Big Brother's umbrella. As for Russia? They're moving under China's wing, regardless of whether people call it a partnership or a friendship (which is basically what the relationship between the USA and the EU is anyway).

With this, Europe is essentially checkmated, and Russia is being pushed right into the arms of the Chinese... I don't think it gets any worse than that.

When you zoom out and look at the big picture, things look pretty grim... and I'll say it again, China is quietly moving as one of the biggest threats out there, often flying right under everyone's radar.

Just imagine a globe where China is the dominant force. I really hope I've checked out of this planet by the time that happens.

Noah Ward2, good to see you back in the mix 👍

Noah Ward2 said:With this, Europe is essentially checkmated, and Russia is being pushed right into the arms of the Chinese... I don't think it gets any worse than that.

When you zoom out and look at the big picture, things look pretty grim... and I'll say it again, China is quietly moving as one of the biggest threats out there, often flying right under everyone's radar.

Just imagine a globe where China is the dominant force. I really hope I've checked out of this planet by the time that happens.

In no version of that scenario am I living on that part of the globe.
😁

Noah Ward2 said:China is definitely the biggest challenge we face... what's happening in Ukraine is almost trivial compared to the kind of chaos that might come from dealing with them...

Instead of the West trying to strike a deal with Putin over the last 20 years to keep a lid on the Chinese before they became too powerful, they've just let them expand. Meanwhile, they're busy fighting a Cold War with Russia, which isn't even the main player in the global picture anymore...

Now that Putin has finally lost his patience, everyone is panicking... unfortunately, it looks like the big winners in all of this will be the Chinese...

Just look at what Putin has been preaching for ages regarding this "new world order" and the West. His whole mindset is built on the idea that Russia is a major player—maybe even a leader—in this rising order, all fueled by Western capital. He isn't looking for an alliance with the West; he wants to keep the West on a leash and project Russia as a superpower that dictates terms instead of negotiating them.

Noah Ward2 said:With this, Europe is essentially checkmated, and Russia is being pushed right into the arms of the Chinese... I don't think it gets any worse than that.

When you zoom out and look at the big picture, things look pretty grim... and I'll say it again, China is quietly moving as one of the biggest threats out there, often flying right under everyone's radar.

Just imagine a globe where China is the dominant force. I really hope I've checked out of this planet by the time that happens.

There will come a day when China reclaims the territory that Imperial Russia snatched from them. And mark my words, it won't be a full-scale war—it’ll be some "special operation" just like what we're seeing in Ukraine right now.

Amanda Allen4 said:There will come a day when China reclaims the territory that Imperial Russia snatched from them. And mark my words, it won't be a full-scale war—it’ll be some "special operation" just like what we're seeing in Ukraine right now.

Karma's a bitch, as the Americans like to say.