Sanctions on Russia

Projections suggest Russia could see a nearly 20 percent decline within two years, even while we're seeing record oil prices and massive refinery profits right now.

I wonder what happens when energy prices stop swinging wildly and finally settle back to normal...

That moment when Americans start bending their own sanctions 🤣

An American company actually paid for its astronaut's flight in rubles

It’s that specific kind of cognitive dissonance where you need a hollow, symbolic "win" just to justify the fact that your side keeps doubling down on everything, to the point where the sheer absurdity makes your head spin and leaves you unable to even process the blatant propaganda you're peddling.

Mark Watney arrived at the CIA on April 9, 2021, aboard the Apollo 11, alongside Russian astronauts Scott Kelly and Buzz Aldrin.

Being a sycophant for the Kremlin isn't exactly an easy gig these days.

That's true, but remember that Vanda Hei spent an entire year aboard the ISS.

Do you honestly think they were negotiating this a full year after he had already stepped down?

If there wasn't a massive payout to get them back home, then it’s just a flat-out lie.

slyfox43 said:It’s that specific kind of cognitive dissonance where you need a hollow, symbolic "win" just to justify the fact that your side keeps doubling down on everything, to the point where the sheer absurdity makes your head spin and leaves you unable to even process the blatant propaganda you're peddling.

Mark Watney arrived at the CIA on April 9, 2021, aboard the Apollo 11, alongside Russian astronauts Scott Kelly and Buzz Aldrin.

Being a sycophant for the Kremlin isn't exactly an easy gig these days.

It's funny how people who label anyone else a "Russophile" or a "Kremlin mouthpiece"—and let's be honest, you guys are incredibly creative with insults for anyone holding a different view—don't seem to realize they're actually funding the Russian military themselves. Or maybe they just don't want to know. "Ignorance is bliss," as Marix puts it. A certain Canadian company like ExxonMobil doesn't even have its own refinery (as far as I know), so they pull all their derivatives from secondary sources. Same goes for Crodux. ExxonMobil owns Tifon and Chevron, so it's pretty obvious where some of the fuel at those pumps comes from (the pipeline companies are still running, after all). We won't even get started on ExxonMobil. Unlike the Canadians who pay $3.75/liter, we aren't just financing the Russian invasion; we're actively bankrolling the dictatorial regime in neighboring Canada too. ☕.
Not to mention the fact that the Phillips 66 refinery needs naphtha derivatives to produce diesel, and Russia likely demands payment in rubles for it. Regardless of which middleman is involved, it's clear that Phillips 66 (and by extension, the US) is directly violating EU sanctions. Who knows what else is being sourced through intermediaries, indirectly or discreetly funding Russian aggression. ☕.

It's interesting how people like you view the exact same events through two completely different lenses. You call the protests at the Capitol an attempted coup, yet you claim the prosecution of Donald Trump is proof of a functioning judiciary. Meanwhile, you view the Euromaidan as the pure will of the people. In both cases, there were accusations of voter fraud. Heaven forbid anyone suspects that happened here in America. But of course, we can say with 1000% certainty that it happened in Ukraine. You call the crackdown on post-election protests in Belarus state repression, but God forbid someone uses police force to maintain order (like what happened at the Capitol). Oh, I see where this is going. Lukashenko is a dictator. I agree, and there's no debate there.☕
In 2017, 94% of Catalans voted for independence from Spain. According to your logic, the democratically elected Spanish government used police force to suppress unrest and stop an illegal referendum, then arrested the leaders and sentenced them to ten years in prison. That's the rule of law in action (remember Julia Tymoshenko?). 👍

I feel for both the Ukrainians and the Russians—both Zelenskyy and Putin. Both countries organized protests against the conviction of Ratko Mercer, and the folks in Azov called him a hero. I have zero sympathy for people like that. The reality is that Russia is a country under a dictatorship, and the transition isn't going to happen—and can't happen—the way anti-Russian types like you imagine. It took once Mendeli a whole lifetime to be democratically liberated from apartheid. Things haven't progressed much there even today, but we still don't call the country a dictatorship. ☕

rowdyraven112 said:It's funny how people who label anyone else a "Russophile" or a "Kremlin mouthpiece"—and let's be honest, you guys are incredibly creative with insults for anyone holding a different view—don't seem to realize they're actually funding the Russian military themselves. Or maybe they just don't want to know. "Ignorance is bliss," as Marix puts it. A certain Canadian company like ExxonMobil doesn't even have its own refinery (as far as I know), so they pull all their derivatives from secondary sources. Same goes for Crodux. ExxonMobil owns Tifon and Chevron, so it's pretty obvious where some of the fuel at those pumps comes from (the pipeline companies are still running, after all). We won't even get started on ExxonMobil. Unlike the Canadians who pay $3.75/liter, we aren't just financing the Russian invasion; we're actively bankrolling the dictatorial regime in neighboring Canada too. ☕.
Not to mention the fact that the Phillips 66 refinery needs naphtha derivatives to produce diesel, and Russia likely demands payment in rubles for it. Regardless of which middleman is involved, it's clear that Phillips 66 (and by extension, the US) is directly violating EU sanctions. Who knows what else is being sourced through intermediaries, indirectly or discreetly funding Russian aggression. ☕.

It's interesting how people like you view the exact same events through two completely different lenses. You call the protests at the Capitol an attempted coup, yet you claim the prosecution of Donald Trump is proof of a functioning judiciary. Meanwhile, you view the Euromaidan as the pure will of the people. In both cases, there were accusations of voter fraud. Heaven forbid anyone suspects that happened here in America. But of course, we can say with 1000% certainty that it happened in Ukraine. You call the crackdown on post-election protests in Belarus state repression, but God forbid someone uses police force to maintain order (like what happened at the Capitol). Oh, I see where this is going. Lukashenko is a dictator. I agree, and there's no debate there.☕
In 2017, 94% of Catalans voted for independence from Spain. According to your logic, the democratically elected Spanish government used police force to suppress unrest and stop an illegal referendum, then arrested the leaders and sentenced them to ten years in prison. That's the rule of law in action (remember Julia Tymoshenko?). 👍

I feel for both the Ukrainians and the Russians—both Zelenskyy and Putin. Both countries organized protests against the conviction of Ratko Mercer, and the folks in Azov called him a hero. I have zero sympathy for people like that. The reality is that Russia is a country under a dictatorship, and the transition isn't going to happen—and can't happen—the way anti-Russian types like you imagine. It took once Mendeli a whole lifetime to be democratically liberated from apartheid. Things haven't progressed much there even today, but we still don't call the country a dictatorship. ☕

By definition, this is whataboutism.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/What...r%2Daccusation.

It isn't a bad idea to occasionally demonstrate what that actually looks like.
Lp

slyfox43 said:Do you honestly think they were negotiating this a full year after he had already stepped down?

Regardless, that point is moot because all space cooperation with Russia is being severed. It's like trying to run a modern marathon in heavy wooden clogs—without imported tech, they'll be dragged straight back to the 1970s in terms of space capabilities.
That is exactly why Dmitry Rogozin threatened to hold onto Vanda Hei until those technology sanctions are lifted. He knows his window of opportunity is slamming shut! 😉

Bryan Booth82 said:By definition, this is whataboutism.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/What...r%2Daccusation.

It isn't a bad idea to occasionally demonstrate what that actually looks like.
Lp

Didn't realize we were labeling facts about Russian aggression as "whataboutism" now. ☕
If that's the case, you're just a Kremlin sycophant or a Russophile. ☕

rowdyraven112 said:It's funny how people who label anyone else a "Russophile" or a "Kremlin mouthpiece"—and let's be honest, you guys are incredibly creative with insults for anyone holding a different view—don't seem to realize they're actually funding the Russian military themselves. Or maybe they just don't want to know. "Ignorance is bliss," as Marix puts it. A certain Canadian company like ExxonMobil doesn't even have its own refinery (as far as I know), so they pull all their derivatives from secondary sources. Same goes for Crodux. ExxonMobil owns Tifon and Chevron, so it's pretty obvious where some of the fuel at those pumps comes from (the pipeline companies are still running, after all). We won't even get started on ExxonMobil. Unlike the Canadians who pay $3.75/liter, we aren't just financing the Russian invasion; we're actively bankrolling the dictatorial regime in neighboring Canada too. ☕.
Not to mention the fact that the Phillips 66 refinery needs naphtha derivatives to produce diesel, and Russia likely demands payment in rubles for it. Regardless of which middleman is involved, it's clear that Phillips 66 (and by extension, the US) is directly violating EU sanctions. Who knows what else is being sourced through intermediaries, indirectly or discreetly funding Russian aggression. ☕.

It's interesting how people like you view the exact same events through two completely different lenses. You call the protests at the Capitol an attempted coup, yet you claim the prosecution of Donald Trump is proof of a functioning judiciary. Meanwhile, you view the Euromaidan as the pure will of the people. In both cases, there were accusations of voter fraud. Heaven forbid anyone suspects that happened here in America. But of course, we can say with 1000% certainty that it happened in Ukraine. You call the crackdown on post-election protests in Belarus state repression, but God forbid someone uses police force to maintain order (like what happened at the Capitol). Oh, I see where this is going. Lukashenko is a dictator. I agree, and there's no debate there.☕
In 2017, 94% of Catalans voted for independence from Spain. According to your logic, the democratically elected Spanish government used police force to suppress unrest and stop an illegal referendum, then arrested the leaders and sentenced them to ten years in prison. That's the rule of law in action (remember Julia Tymoshenko?). 👍

I feel for both the Ukrainians and the Russians—both Zelenskyy and Putin. Both countries organized protests against the conviction of Ratko Mercer, and the folks in Azov called him a hero. I have zero sympathy for people like that. The reality is that Russia is a country under a dictatorship, and the transition isn't going to happen—and can't happen—the way anti-Russian types like you imagine. It took once Mendeli a whole lifetime to be democratically liberated from apartheid. Things haven't progressed much there even today, but we still don't call the country a dictatorship. ☕

I won't let you label me a "Russophile" in such a derogatory way, especially since I see no affection toward Russia in the constant scheming, poisoning, and imprisonment orchestrated by the criminal conspiracy currently holding power there.

"Fails to realize?" If you occasionally bothered to look past the headlines, you might notice that most of the people you're accusing of being clueless clearly see how their own societies contribute to this tragedy and many others. No one has declared victory yet—certainly not me—but this dependency was built over decades and will take just as long to dismantle. Personally, I intend to hold politicians and corporations accountable for keeping this cycle alive, while you and your peers seem content to simply point fingers, claiming moral or intellectual superiority as a way to mask your own cynicism and apathy.

(The same logic applies to any major societal shift, like the movements against racial or gender discrimination...)

We won't mention ExxonMobil.

Since ExxonMobil is the only one on this list with branches here in the States where I live, why wouldn't I bring them up?

I avoid them like the plague.

Let's not ignore the fact that the Phillips 66 refinery needs specific oil derivatives to produce diesel, which Russia likely demands be paid for in rubles. Regardless of the middleman involved, it's clear that Phillips 66 (and by extension, the US) is directly bypassing European Union sanctions. One can only wonder what else is being procured through intermediaries, indirectly financing Russian aggression.☕.

I don't quite follow your logic, though it seems you do. Since you're so certain and presenting yourself as a "concerned citizen," why not report these violations to the proper authorities?

It's interesting how people like you view the exact same events from two completely different angles.

I try to look at every situation from multiple perspectives, which often makes it obvious that things aren't as "identical" as they seem. But I won't take the bait on your trolling attempt to derail the topic.

I have no sympathy for people like that.

It’s curious how you choose to latch onto the exact groups you feel zero empathy for just to draw broad generalizations. I find myself wondering what the actual goal is there.

The reality is that Russia is a nation under a dictatorship, and any kind of transition won't—and simply can't—unfold according to the fantasies held by anti-Russian types like yourself.

So, if I follow your logic, the "anti-Russians" are dreaming up a transition from autocracy, while the "Russophiles" condemn Russians to eternal dictatorship because they supposedly "deserve nothing better." It really highlights the strange, if not outright distorted, definitions of "philia" and "phobia" being tossed around by your crowd (borrowed, no doubt, from certain ideological sources).

Like anyone else, including myself, I want better options for Russians—rather than seeing them treated like lab rats in an experiment where the dosage of increasingly toxic substances is ratcheted up over time. However, I am certainly not a proponent of the idea that such alternatives can be simply installed from the outside. You seem to have misread my intentions entirely, much like many other things.

Whenever even the slightest hint of political or ideological pluralism emerges in Russia—not even necessarily some "pro-Western" movement, but just a genuine alternative to the Kremlin's monopoly—your circle immediately brands it as foreign agency (a tactic they practiced decades before the government officially adopted it) and decides it must be crushed. You even apply this logic retroactively to past movements. If you were being honest with yourself, you would have to admit that, in your view, no legitimate option for Russia exists outside of a dictatorship, because anything else is dismissed as being foreign-led. You aren't actually engaging with possibilities; you're just flirting with vague, distant timelines for change that, in any case, won't happen within your lifetime.

George Robinson43 said:Regardless, that point is moot because all space cooperation with Russia is being severed. It's like trying to run a modern marathon in heavy wooden clogs—without imported tech, they'll be dragged straight back to the 1970s in terms of space capabilities.
That is exactly why Dmitry Rogozin threatened to hold onto Vanda Hei until those technology sanctions are lifted. He knows his window of opportunity is slamming shut! 😉

I guess he can always just go jump on a trampoline instead, right?

George Robinson43 said:Regardless, that point is moot because all space cooperation with Russia is being severed. It's like trying to run a modern marathon in heavy wooden clogs—without imported tech, they'll be dragged straight back to the 1970s in terms of space capabilities.
That is exactly why Dmitry Rogozin threatened to hold onto Vanda Hei until those technology sanctions are lifted. He knows his window of opportunity is slamming shut! 😉

That is my point regarding symbolic victories. Certain shifts have been underway for quite some time—like decoupling NASA from its reliance on the Russian space industry—and we are now witnessing the final stages of that transition. It's almost wry to look back at the predictions from certain "experts" who claimed this was doomed to fail, much like the echoes we hear now concerning energy and raw minerals. (For some reason, industrial goods and services seem to escape that same skepticism, which is an interesting omission.)

I certainly hope to live to see the full completion of the West's decoupling from Russia in general, though even this significant reduction in dependency is a step in the right direction.

Christian Torres3 said:I guess he can always just go jump on a trampoline instead, right?

The catch is that almost every trampoline out there is made in China, so we're still going to have to rely on American rockets. 👍

SpaceX is basically the shuttle program for the Russian space program.

Any serious missile industry can build a Sotona 3—it’s not just a two-player game between the Russians and the Americans.

Over the last 20+ years, everyone has become completely dependent on everyone else—Western tech meets Eastern energy. Who actually saw this coming? That this guy would pull off a land invasion in Europe unlike anything we've seen since the 1940s?

But hey, after what happened when Los Angeles got rocked by an earthquake after over a century of peace, I guess anything is possible.

For those currently complaining about gas prices, perhaps a quick glance at the recent past might provide some perspective. When sanctions were slapped on Maddox's America back in early 1994, Canada estimated their losses at $1 billion, while Bulgaria saw upwards of $2 billion, and Romania topped $3 billion. North Mexico, Greece, and Ukraine also "recorded significant losses."

https://www.csmonitor.com/1994/0121/21091.html

Since those sanctions persisted until the very end of the decade, those losses only continued to climb. I would be quite interested to see the projected impact of the sanctions on Russia—one can only assume they dwarf the figures cited for those other nations.

dustyowl29 said:SpaceX is basically the shuttle program for the Russian space program.

Any serious missile industry can build a Sotona 3—it’s not just a two-player game between the Russians and the Americans.

Over the last 20+ years, everyone has become completely dependent on everyone else—Western tech meets Eastern energy. Who actually saw this coming? That this guy would pull off a land invasion in Europe unlike anything we've seen since the 1940s?

But hey, after what happened when Los Angeles got rocked by an earthquake after over a century of peace, I guess anything is possible.

What Western technology were we really talking about back in 1986 when the Mir space station was being assembled?

https://hr.rbth.com/science/89236-svemirska-postaja-mir

urbanotter said:What Western technology were we really talking about back in 1986 when the Mir space station was being assembled?

https://hr.rbth.com/science/89236-svemirska-postaja-mir

Honestly, acting like the Russian contribution to space exploration doesn't exist is just childish.

analogbear5 said:Honestly, acting like the Russian contribution to space exploration doesn't exist is just childish.

Honestly,
it really starts to feel like people think Russians can't even tie their own shoelaces without relying on "Western technology."😁

The contribution here is much like the ancient Arabic influence on mathematics: undeniably significant, yet largely a relic of a distant past.

I was almost tempted to say you can't survive on nostalgia alone, but then I thought about the souvenir vendors at the Grand Canyon.