Sash: Vol. II

Since the original thread got nuked without a single decent explanation (typical move from our local speed-demon admin), I’m starting this one to solve the mystery. This time, maybe we can actually get some insight into how Sash operates. Honestly, he wouldn't even give me a reason via DM, which makes me think he's just talking in circles. But we aren't born yesterday.

So, the questions are the same—hopefully the answers won't be. I made my own post, but you could also check out the ones by urbanhawk17 or Playlife.
Basically, why is a thread asking to swap existing emojis considered "pointless" and gets the OP banned without warning, while threads asking for brand new emojis stay up without anyone saying a word?
Also, why do you get flagged for opening a thread in the Feedback section to ask for an explanation regarding certain bans or admin actions?
And one more thing: why was my post on the original thread banned when shadowpilot8's post stayed up? They were basically identical.

Finally, just so this doesn't look like an isolated incident, here's some proof that this admin struggles to justify his calls. He has a habit of shutting down any thread where people question his decisions when he hasn't given a real reason.
1. http://www.vbulletin.com/showthread.php?t=525699
2. http://www.vbulletin.com/showthread.php?t=526552
3. http://www.vbulletin.com/showthread.php?t=526563
Not to mention everyone's constantly coming after him. From what I can tell, mostly for good reason.

PS. Please, let's not have a repeat of the first thread where Sash just flies in, hands out a few bans for no reason, and kills the discussion. There are plenty of other admins and mods here who might actually want to weigh in.

Thanks in advance

Here is an opinion from one of the moderators, if you even care—though I'm not sure why you're looking for reasons to ban me 😉. For the record, I wouldn't mind a ban if they decided to hand one out; it would be a first for me, and unlike many people here, I wouldn't complain about it 😁
.
We finally have two admins who actually show up and get things done. From my perspective, it’s perfectly fair. In my book, the group of you who have been dragging this out for days would have earned a three-day timeout for provocation 🙂
. But that’s just my take, and since I’m not an admin, don't lose any sleep over it

shadowpilot8 said:Here is an opinion from one of the moderators, if you even care—though I'm not sure why you're looking for reasons to ban me 😉. For the record, I wouldn't mind a ban if they decided to hand one out; it would be a first for me, and unlike many people here, I wouldn't complain about it 😁
.
We finally have two admins who actually show up and get things done. From my perspective, it’s perfectly fair. In my book, the group of you who have been dragging this out for days would have earned a three-day timeout for provocation 🙂
. But that’s just my take, and since I’m not an admin, don't lose any sleep over it

And that's basically all we could do for you until then.☕

shadowpilot8 said:Here is an opinion from one of the moderators, if you even care—though I'm not sure why you're looking for reasons to ban me 😉. For the record, I wouldn't mind a ban if they decided to hand one out; it would be a first for me, and unlike many people here, I wouldn't complain about it 😁
.
We finally have two admins who actually show up and get things done. From my perspective, it’s perfectly fair. In my book, the group of you who have been dragging this out for days would have earned a three-day timeout for provocation 🙂
. But that’s just my take, and since I’m not an admin, don't lose any sleep over it

You're entitled to your opinion. I respect that.

I’m curious too—what exactly counts as "provocation" here? I mean, did we just start threads to vent our frustrations? Is that what we're calling it now?

I mean, if I’m unhappy with the cardboard—which we clearly were and still are—here’s the PDF where he’s complaining. And honestly, if you go around whining about the packaging, you probably won't get any packaging at all.

Regarding my bans... I've been banned twice now. Once was for being insulting, I guess. I guess I'll just leave this here. I was actually the one who requested that ban, and just once because I was messing around with a mod. Delvecchio.

And then, boom—two bans in fifteen days. Just like that. Sash.

Have I finally lost my mind? I just got hit with two bans in fifteen days, right after serving a two-and-a-half-year suspension. Maybe I am just losing it.

Tell me, is this actually normal to you? Just being objective, I mean.

P.S. I still haven't received an explanation for my first warning. And honestly, if we have to keep pushing until someone actually gives us an answer, what’s the problem with that?

shadowpilot8 said:Here is an opinion from one of the moderators, if you even care—though I'm not sure why you're looking for reasons to ban me 😉. For the record, I wouldn't mind a ban if they decided to hand one out; it would be a first for me, and unlike many people here, I wouldn't complain about it 😁
.
We finally have two admins who actually show up and get things done. From my perspective, it’s perfectly fair. In my book, the group of you who have been dragging this out for days would have earned a three-day timeout for provocation 🙂
. But that’s just my take, and since I’m not an admin, don't lose any sleep over it

Alright, reading this post for the sixth time now and still can't find your actual take on the situation 🤷

shadowpilot8 said:Here is an opinion from one of the moderators, if you even care—though I'm not sure why you're looking for reasons to ban me 😉. For the record, I wouldn't mind a ban if they decided to hand one out; it would be a first for me, and unlike many people here, I wouldn't complain about it 😁
.
We finally have two admins who actually show up and get things done. From my perspective, it’s perfectly fair. In my book, the group of you who have been dragging this out for days would have earned a three-day timeout for provocation 🙂
. But that’s just my take, and since I’m not an admin, don't lose any sleep over it

No, seriously... no joke

Matthew Anderson4 said:Since the original thread got nuked without a single decent explanation (typical move from our local speed-demon admin), I’m starting this one to solve the mystery. This time, maybe we can actually get some insight into how Sash operates. Honestly, he wouldn't even give me a reason via DM, which makes me think he's just talking in circles. But we aren't born yesterday.

So, the questions are the same—hopefully the answers won't be. I made my own post, but you could also check out the ones by urbanhawk17 or Playlife.
Basically, why is a thread asking to swap existing emojis considered "pointless" and gets the OP banned without warning, while threads asking for brand new emojis stay up without anyone saying a word?
Also, why do you get flagged for opening a thread in the Feedback section to ask for an explanation regarding certain bans or admin actions?
And one more thing: why was my post on the original thread banned when shadowpilot8's post stayed up? They were basically identical.

Finally, just so this doesn't look like an isolated incident, here's some proof that this admin struggles to justify his calls. He has a habit of shutting down any thread where people question his decisions when he hasn't given a real reason.
1. http://www.vbulletin.com/showthread.php?t=525699
2. http://www.vbulletin.com/showthread.php?t=526552
3. http://www.vbulletin.com/showthread.php?t=526563
Not to mention everyone's constantly coming after him. From what I can tell, mostly for good reason.

PS. Please, let's not have a repeat of the first thread where Sash just flies in, hands out a few bans for no reason, and kills the discussion. There are plenty of other admins and mods here who might actually want to weigh in.

Thanks in advance

Man, I don't get Sash's logic either.

Seriously, how much more of this mindless spam is he gonna let you guys dump on his subforum before he snaps?

Honestly, someone should just ban the whole lot of you from the main board. It’s probably the only way to get you all to pack up your little toys and go back to whatever playground you crawled out of.

Sandra Gonzalez3 said:Man, I don't get Sash's logic either.

Seriously, how much more of this mindless spam is he gonna let you guys dump on his subforum before he snaps?

Honestly, someone should just ban the whole lot of you from the main board. It’s probably the only way to get you all to pack up your little toys and go back to whatever playground you crawled out of.

I was actually gonna write a whole reply to you, but then I caught a glimpse of your signature... 🙂

Sandra Gonzalez3 said:Man, I don't get Sash's logic either.

Seriously, how much more of this mindless spam is he gonna let you guys dump on his subforum before he snaps?

Honestly, someone should just ban the whole lot of you from the main board. It’s probably the only way to get you all to pack up your little toys and go back to whatever playground you crawled out of.

On his subforum 🤣
What spam are you even talking about? Someone hits me with a ban for no reason, then I ask why, and suddenly I'm the spammer?
Might as well just shut down the whole site for anyone brave enough to question your calls. 🙄

Matthew Anderson4 said:On his subforum 🤣
What spam are you even talking about? Someone hits me with a ban for no reason, then I ask why, and suddenly I'm the spammer?
Might as well just shut down the whole site for anyone brave enough to question your calls. 🙄

Like this, for example:

Timothy Wilson60 said:I was actually gonna write a whole reply to you, but then I caught a glimpse of your signature... 🙂

And once they hand out a ban for trolling like that, expect a 15-day suspension 🙂 🙂 — all because someone thinks they were unfairly banned.

What's the catch here? Did everyone get so bored with football that they started using this site just to kill time?

I’m saying it again: the mods need to clear up this "mystery" by splitting the site up and forcing you guys back to your own corner 👍, because otherwise, it looks like you're never leaving...

Sandra Gonzalez3 said:Like this, for example:

And once they hand out a ban for trolling like that, expect a 15-day suspension 🙂 🙂 — all because someone thinks they were unfairly banned.

What's the catch here? Did everyone get so bored with football that they started using this site just to kill time?

I’m saying it again: the mods need to clear up this "mystery" by splitting the site up and forcing you guys back to your own corner 👍, because otherwise, it looks like you're never leaving...

That example of spam you quoted turned up just 17 minutes after your post complaining about us spamming. Brilliant. Cassandra complex is definitely real.

Asking a few mods who probably feel obligated to protect their buddies: if you don't have anything useful to add to the solution, just stay out of it. Posts like yours or the one from shadowpilot8 aren't helping anyone. Unless the whole goal is just to provoke people, which makes it just as much trolling as the post you quoted.

Matthew Anderson4 said:That example of spam you quoted turned up just 17 minutes after your post complaining about us spamming. Brilliant. Cassandra complex is definitely real.

Asking a few mods who probably feel obligated to protect their buddies: if you don't have anything useful to add to the solution, just stay out of it. Posts like yours or the one from shadowpilot8 aren't helping anyone. Unless the whole goal is just to provoke people, which makes it just as much trolling as the post you quoted.

What am I supposed to do now? Dig through your massive "Zgyawn" posts? ... Honestly, nothing gets under my skin more than these self-proclaimed "geniuses." :booring:

Most people can't stand authority. Some just learn to live with it, and others spend their whole lives fighting it.
But even the biggest rebels still deal with it, and honestly, true authority isn't about the title you hold—it's about having the actual qualities required for the job.
The admins are new, so I guess it's pointless to expect the thread starter to change this admin's mind. Since he's the new guy, he has to solidify his position, which means breaking through some resistance along the way. I mean, we're human, right? In that process of pushing back, maybe some innocent people will get caught in the crossfire, but expecting an admin to admit they're wrong is just wishful thinking. Admitting a mistake ruins the very thing they're trying to build by asserting control.
I'm not getting into the specifics here, and I'm not really judging if the admin's move was right or wrong or who's innocent. I'm just talking generally.
So, look at how things were on this forum four months ago:
- Not a single admin was around.
- Every complaint was handled however a moderator felt like doing it.
- The ones actually doing a good job just got lost in a sea of bad calls.
- Users would notice there was no "head" in charge, so every complaint turned into a total circus.
- Constant clashes between mods and users, with no higher-up to step in and settle things—usually siding with the mod, though sometimes with the user.
- That kind of setup creates uncertainty for everyone, because mods don't get backup for their calls, and users feel like "injustice" isn't being addressed.

Now, we have two admins. One is active and tries to answer every "call," and the other is pretty rigid and old-school (he comes from a strict military background 😁), but I think he's fair.

They both seem smart to me. They can see things from different angles and make a call, then actually stand by it.
And that's why they're admins—because they can own their decisions.

Will their decisions always be right? Probably not. There's always going to be a gap between what the admin deciding things thinks and what the user getting punished thinks, but one thing is certain:
It's better to have an admin making decisions and enforcing them than to have nobody at all.

Maybe we can just hope there are fewer mistakes and that, eventually, the need to assert dominance will "soften" enough to allow for some compromise. Until then, insisting that an admin offer a recognition of a mistake is basically just banging your head against a wall, because for the reasons I mentioned, it’s not going to happen (even if the admin knows they messed up).
So, my suggestion to you guys is just... don't push it. I wrote this hoping the admins might see it as a way to bring this discussion toward some middle ground without more bans or deletions, which could easily happen, and that doesn't help anyone.

Let the admins do their work. Honestly, they seem to be doing a decent job overall. Maybe try to get over being offended by a mistake and remember how much worse it was when they weren't here.
Let them finish their first 100 days. After that, we can start a thread titled "Rate the admins' first 100 days" so everyone can vent properly.

Anyway, I hope this adds something constructive to the conversation and helps cool things down a bit.

Sandra Gonzalez3 said:What am I supposed to do now? Dig through your massive "Zgyawn" posts? ... Honestly, nothing gets under my skin more than these self-proclaimed "geniuses." :booring:

Look, if ZgYawn is an issue, that’s just a matter of opinion and what bugs him, not some actual rule violation.

PS. If I posted something like yours, a thread would be blown up on Reddit within half an hour.

PPS. You could try reporting the post, but since it'd just land right on Sash's desk, I don't see the point.

Sandra Gonzalez3 said:What am I supposed to do now? Dig through your massive "Zgyawn" posts? ... Honestly, nothing gets under my skin more than these self-proclaimed "geniuses." :booring:

Are you acting like a moderator or just some random guy on a forum?
Because if you're supposed to be a mod, maybe you should take those cardboard boxes you hand out for posts like this and ask the head admin to throw them right back at you.
🙂

dustypuma5 said:Most people can't stand authority. Some just learn to live with it, and others spend their whole lives fighting it.
But even the biggest rebels still deal with it, and honestly, true authority isn't about the title you hold—it's about having the actual qualities required for the job.
The admins are new, so I guess it's pointless to expect the thread starter to change this admin's mind. Since he's the new guy, he has to solidify his position, which means breaking through some resistance along the way. I mean, we're human, right? In that process of pushing back, maybe some innocent people will get caught in the crossfire, but expecting an admin to admit they're wrong is just wishful thinking. Admitting a mistake ruins the very thing they're trying to build by asserting control.
I'm not getting into the specifics here, and I'm not really judging if the admin's move was right or wrong or who's innocent. I'm just talking generally.
So, look at how things were on this forum four months ago:
- Not a single admin was around.
- Every complaint was handled however a moderator felt like doing it.
- The ones actually doing a good job just got lost in a sea of bad calls.
- Users would notice there was no "head" in charge, so every complaint turned into a total circus.
- Constant clashes between mods and users, with no higher-up to step in and settle things—usually siding with the mod, though sometimes with the user.
- That kind of setup creates uncertainty for everyone, because mods don't get backup for their calls, and users feel like "injustice" isn't being addressed.

Now, we have two admins. One is active and tries to answer every "call," and the other is pretty rigid and old-school (he comes from a strict military background 😁), but I think he's fair.

They both seem smart to me. They can see things from different angles and make a call, then actually stand by it.
And that's why they're admins—because they can own their decisions.

Will their decisions always be right? Probably not. There's always going to be a gap between what the admin deciding things thinks and what the user getting punished thinks, but one thing is certain:
It's better to have an admin making decisions and enforcing them than to have nobody at all.

Maybe we can just hope there are fewer mistakes and that, eventually, the need to assert dominance will "soften" enough to allow for some compromise. Until then, insisting that an admin offer a recognition of a mistake is basically just banging your head against a wall, because for the reasons I mentioned, it’s not going to happen (even if the admin knows they messed up).
So, my suggestion to you guys is just... don't push it. I wrote this hoping the admins might see it as a way to bring this discussion toward some middle ground without more bans or deletions, which could easily happen, and that doesn't help anyone.

Let the admins do their work. Honestly, they seem to be doing a decent job overall. Maybe try to get over being offended by a mistake and remember how much worse it was when they weren't here.
Let them finish their first 100 days. After that, we can start a thread titled "Rate the admins' first 100 days" so everyone can vent properly.

Anyway, I hope this adds something constructive to the conversation and helps cool things down a bit.

It isn't about whether he was wrong. It's about the fact that he hasn't explained himself yet. If you scroll back through the original thread, there's no real explanation besides "you made a pointless thread" (and there are tons of those on the site, like threads for new emojis, etc.). If he had just taken five minutes to say, "this is pointless because of X and Y," that would be fine. But he didn't even do that.

Matthew Anderson4 said:It isn't about whether he was wrong. It's about the fact that he hasn't explained himself yet. If you scroll back through the original thread, there's no real explanation besides "you made a pointless thread" (and there are tons of those on the site, like threads for new emojis, etc.). If he had just taken five minutes to say, "this is pointless because of X and Y," that would be fine. But he didn't even do that.

Look, I'm not getting into the weeds of the actual argument, even though I definitely have an opinion on it. I'm just not saying it because I'm not here to take sides.
I'm just trying to be practical here—either handle this via private message or just drop it.
Because honestly, you aren't gonna get what you want by making a scene in public.
And man, it sucks seeing you guys all acting like debtors on this forum. 😍

Sent him a DM way before this thread even went live, still haven't heard back 🤷
There is no Third option, backing out isn't on the table ☕

Matthew Anderson4 said:Sent him a DM way before this thread even went live, still haven't heard back 🤷
There is no Third option, backing out isn't on the table ☕

Maybe try reaching out again? Like, tone it down, show you get where he's coming from, and maybe find some middle ground.
Just settle it. You guys already acted tough enough, now just go grab a beer together.
🙂👍
But do it somewhere private, without all those people watching you fight. 🙂
Goodnight, everyone.