The Far Left

Left-wing parties always seem to have some word related to "workers" slapped in their name, right? But you look at the right-wing scene here in the States, and you just don't see it. It creates this weird, messy situation where you’ve got certain hooligan groups clinging to right-wing extremism while simultaneously leeching off leftist ideas—like trying to run their clubs through some kind of fan-based self-management—yet you never see that same model applied to actual corporations. Honestly, the true working-class right gets totally screwed over during elections because the big money interests paint them as "communist." And let's be real, those attacks aren't even coming from nationalists; they're coming from the capitalists—which basically means the liberals. Nationalism is supposed to be about harmony between social classes and ensuring the survival of the people. Instead, because of this dominant liberal ideology, the US is facing a massive demographic crisis with more deaths than births. Looking back at history, the clash between the working-class right and the internationalist left happened in Germany when the USSR was expanding its reach, which actually pushed global capitalism to side with the USSR. Liberalism got crushed, and the working-class right took over primarily because they stayed connected to the nation rather than just chasing some vague "proletariat" identity across the globe. Maybe the best example is what happened in America—instead of sticking to international communism, you had a conflict between a Slavic nationalist, Josip Broz Marshall, and Joseph Stalin. (And if you want proof of how much of a nationalist Marshall really was, just look at the fact that the anthem wasn't some internationalist anthem like under Stalin, but "Hey Slavs.") Ultimately, that movement failed because of a fundamental flaw in American worker nationalism: it embraced a brand of communism that suffocates traditional values. So, it’s no wonder that many of Marshall's old followers today are out there arguing against mandatory military service or pushing anti-conservative agendas. They’re too weak to actually start a revolution; frankly, they aren't even a shadow of those gritty Russian proletarians at the start of the Bolshevik Revolution who were actually raised on right-wing principles. As usual, the real problem comes from the government, which a militant working class built on right-wing principles could "check" in order to strengthen the state rather than focusing on the hyper-individualized person. You can't fix things with this "mental communism"—it's passive, self-destructive, and obsessed with internationalism, which just ignores the obvious differences between nations.

Do you guys think it's finally time for a right-wing party with a "worker" label? If so, wouldn't we share those core conservative foundations—family, nationalism, militarism—in a way that feels right for the West? We could settle the status of minority groups by requiring them to embrace the majority culture and show loyalty to the country they live in. I'm picturing a flag that's red with a crest in the center on a white field. I honestly think a nationalist workers' party is the answer to everything: fixing the birth rate (the state should subsidize those who want kids and tax the wealthy ones who don't), stopping terrorism (shutting down illegal immigration and prioritizing jobs for local workers), and fixing crappy wages (setting a minimum wage high enough that after rent and bills, people actually have money left to spend). We need to stop capital flight—maybe using the military to protect jobs, sort of like how Donald Trump suggested he'd do to preserve American industry. And as for pacifism? Forget it. Bring back mandatory military service and make gun permits easy for successful veterans/reservists so that defenders aren't just fighting for their own class rights, but for the rights of all citizens. If foreign companies are better than ours, we should make it easier for them to compete by adjusting prices so that domestic production stays cheaper. Also, we need to dial back the influence of religious institutions and establish a truly secular state, especially since the Vatican supports terrorism.

The last far-right worker's party to leave such a devastating mark on history was the Nazi Party...

vividfox9 said:The last far-right worker's party to leave such a devastating mark on history was the Nazi Party...

Look, everyone knows that—it doesn't mean we should go out and adopt their entire platform, right? My whole focus here isn't about historical comparisons; I’m looking at the actual root causes behind the plummeting living standards and the birth rate collapse—and how the hell we fix it. Since the working class makes up the vast majority of the population, you obviously need a party that actually carries a worker-centric name. The Workers' Front tried to capture that vibe, but they were basically doomed from the jump because of things like civil society, their support for immigration, all that internationalist nonsense, and the fact that they can't figure out how to let an individual actually own their own means of production—or rather, from what I can tell, they don't have a real beef with private ownership itself, just with inheritance, which is honestly kind of a non-issue in my book. So, here's the real kicker: how do you build a functional system where people aren't stuck in endless sub-letting loops or drowning in utility bills and overhead, without massive state intervention? Basically, if you want to craft a successful labor program, you have to push back against everything the Workers' Front stands for. If they actually pivoted to that, great. If not? Well, I don't see them solving anything—even with the massive influx of working-class voters heading toward anti-immigrant parties. Those guys will be useful to the workers only until they've cleared the field, and then suddenly, those same workers will be branded as "immigrants" by the big corporations just to screw them over.

In Europe, it isn't exactly rare to see the working class gravitating toward so-called right-wing parties.

Alex Scott5 said:In Europe, it isn't exactly rare to see the working class gravitating toward so-called right-wing parties.

Sure, whatever—but just think about it for a second. You've got these people who were die-hard liberals yesterday, and suddenly they’re playing the right-wing card, blaming immigrants for the mess the economy is in? It’s a joke! And then it’s a total loop—they’re the ones who sparked the wars that caused the refugee crises in the first place. Talk about irony, right? Honestly, these refugees are often more driven than the average worker over here, yet we should be fixing things at the source instead of this nonsense. The capitalists—or let's call them what they actually are, the liberals—are just running numbers. They figure if there’s no pushback, they can tank wages by using immigrant labor. And if that doesn't work, they just pivot and blame those same people for taking social services, instead of actually putting that money back into raising the wages for domestic workers.

Sure, a right-wing party might toss the word "worker" into its branding to sound more populist, but let’s be honest: a party running on a right-wing platform is, by its very definition, incapable of actually representing the interests of the working class.

The fact that the Democratic Party and several others are essentially just rebranded versions of the liberal right is a completely separate issue altogether.

vividfox9 said:The last far-right worker's party to leave such a devastating mark on history was the Nazi Party...

Wait, so you're calling them right-wing *and* socialists? lol—does that mean the socialists over in the USSR were also considered "right-wing" too?

mistycrane3 said:Sure, a right-wing party might toss the word "worker" into its branding to sound more populist, but let’s be honest: a party running on a right-wing platform is, by its very definition, incapable of actually representing the interests of the working class.

The fact that the Democratic Party and several others are essentially just rebranded versions of the liberal right is a completely separate issue altogether.

Look, if you mean "workers" in the sense of uniting the entire proletariat? No way. Because an American worker is more expensive and sits at the top of the global food chain. But if you mean "workers" in terms of protecting our own people? Then yeah, they can. It’s all about how the global capitalists manipulate labor costs so that hiring someone locally ends up being cheaper than hiring back home—and instead of slapping import taxes on them, we just sit here with a weak state like ours.

The fact that the Democratic Party and the rest are actually just liberal right-wing parties is a whole different story.

That’s just the radical left attacking them, right? Meanwhile, the right-wingers keep whining that the Republican Party isn't "right-wing enough," so they start babbling about left-liberal ideology. We’ve got this weird setup where radical leftists are totally fine, but the radical right is treated like a problem just because they actually care about national interests. Think about it—international capitalism and international communism were basically in a pact against Germany during WWII. So, wouldn't you expect that if you're anti-communist, you'd be going after the USSR as a capitalist power? Exactly. So that liberal right you're talking about was actually fighting against a party that was "working class" by its very definition. Wherever you have two ideas that are strictly internationalist, the international capitalist one is always going to win out. But there's one massive flaw in that logic: because of liberalism, there's no planned population policy. That declining birth rate gets replaced by immigrants, and we’re already seeing how that plays out with the terrorist attacks hitting workers now—though long-term, it’ll hit the upper class too.

crimsonwolf20 said:Wait, so you're calling them right-wing *and* socialists? lol—does that mean the socialists over in the USSR were also considered "right-wing" too?

The answer is right there in the thread title...

Steven Murphy2 said:Look, everyone knows that—it doesn't mean we should go out and adopt their entire platform, right? My whole focus here isn't about historical comparisons; I’m looking at the actual root causes behind the plummeting living standards and the birth rate collapse—and how the hell we fix it. Since the working class makes up the vast majority of the population, you obviously need a party that actually carries a worker-centric name. The Workers' Front tried to capture that vibe, but they were basically doomed from the jump because of things like civil society, their support for immigration, all that internationalist nonsense, and the fact that they can't figure out how to let an individual actually own their own means of production—or rather, from what I can tell, they don't have a real beef with private ownership itself, just with inheritance, which is honestly kind of a non-issue in my book. So, here's the real kicker: how do you build a functional system where people aren't stuck in endless sub-letting loops or drowning in utility bills and overhead, without massive state intervention? Basically, if you want to craft a successful labor program, you have to push back against everything the Workers' Front stands for. If they actually pivoted to that, great. If not? Well, I don't see them solving anything—even with the massive influx of working-class voters heading toward anti-immigrant parties. Those guys will be useful to the workers only until they've cleared the field, and then suddenly, those same workers will be branded as "immigrants" by the big corporations just to screw them over.

The labor movement barely exists here anymore.
We don't really have a manufacturing base left—nothing major besides places like ExxonMobil or local refineries.
Most people are either in service jobs, working for the government, or stuck in that permanent precariat class...

The working-class right? What does that even mean? National Socialism?

The working class in America has been fractured by the loss of its economic foundation and the rise of a multi-party system. It doesn't exist as a cohesive class or a distinct caste anymore, especially since all meaningful dialogue with leftist intellectuals has dried up. We've also seen a massive exodus from the Democratic Party's voter base and other progressive factions. The Left is just waiting for a charismatic leader to unite them. Right now, there isn't a single sign of one on the horizon; politics is defined by stagnation and mediocrity, while the electorate remains completely apathetic. Because of this, the Republican Party has a clear path to hold onto power for several terms to come.

Death to fascism!

vividfox9 said:The labor movement barely exists here anymore.
We don't really have a manufacturing base left—nothing major besides places like ExxonMobil or local refineries.
Most people are either in service jobs, working for the government, or stuck in that permanent precariat class...

Look, those people are workers too. Being "the working class" isn't just about punching a clock at some massive factory plant.

Blue-collar workers can absolutely be right-wingers.

The point is, a specific social class doesn't necessarily need its own dedicated political party; it’s enough if they simply cast their votes for whichever party champions an ideology that resonates with them.

Take the retiree vote in America, for example. Seniors have their own interest groups—actually, there are several different organizations representing them—and if retirees only ever voted for parties specifically catering to their demographic, those niche groups would hold all the power.

But we know that isn't how reality works; generally speaking, retirees tend to vote for the Republican Party.

When it comes to the working class, it's a similar story. Whether here in the States or elsewhere, laborers typically lean toward the right and support conservative ideas.

For instance, a large portion of the workforce believes we should tighten borders regarding foreign labor because they fear for their own job security.

While that logic is fundamentally flawed—since the influx of foreign workers actually creates a diametrically opposite effect by opening up new opportunities for the domestic population—the sentiment remains.

Workers ought to remember that everyone occupies multiple roles simultaneously; they aren't just employees, they are also consumers.

It might seem to serve their interests as workers to have goods manufactured domestically so they can secure more jobs, but as consumers, that's rarely in their best interest. If everything were produced locally, the cost of production would include their own higher wages, which means that, as buyers, they would find everything prohibitively expensive.

crimsonwolf20 said:Wait, so you're calling them right-wing *and* socialists? lol—does that mean the socialists over in the USSR were also considered "right-wing" too?

There are actually two different axes you can use to map political parties from left to right, though the lines always get a bit blurry...

The first is the relationship between labor and capital, and the second is how they view tradition—basically, freedom versus authority and national identity.

On that first axis, the Nazi Party believed true individual value couldn't be found in a capitalist system driven by pure profit, since that's all just selfish interests. In reality, though, the big German capitalists were huge supporters of the Nazi Party because they saw them as a shield against Bolshevism. The Nazi Party never actually tried to nationalize industries or cut into profits; instead, the capitalists just used the German war machine to line their own pockets.

True value, in their eyes, came from devotion to the Fatherland, through sacrifice, unity, and shedding blood—both yours and others'. Real value meant sacrificing personal freedoms to defend a homeland that dictates everything. The individual is nothing; the State decides everything from what you wear to who you marry.

That kind of sacrifice has zero to do with the socialist mantra of messy government seizure and redistribution of wealth—which seems to be what bothers you, even though a true Nazi would see that as trivial and insignificant.

These values aren't leftist at all; they're purely right-wing. God, family, and Country—those are the three core pillars pushed to the extreme in the Nazi system. That’s why they’re right-wing.

But I guess for you, the economic sphere and the liberties attached to it are everything... for them, it was completely irrelevant.

goldenpuma84 said:There are actually two different axes you can use to map political parties from left to right, though the lines always get a bit blurry...

The first is the relationship between labor and capital, and the second is how they view tradition—basically, freedom versus authority and national identity.

On that first axis, the Nazi Party believed true individual value couldn't be found in a capitalist system driven by pure profit, since that's all just selfish interests. In reality, though, the big German capitalists were huge supporters of the Nazi Party because they saw them as a shield against Bolshevism. The Nazi Party never actually tried to nationalize industries or cut into profits; instead, the capitalists just used the German war machine to line their own pockets.

True value, in their eyes, came from devotion to the Fatherland, through sacrifice, unity, and shedding blood—both yours and others'. Real value meant sacrificing personal freedoms to defend a homeland that dictates everything. The individual is nothing; the State decides everything from what you wear to who you marry.

That kind of sacrifice has zero to do with the socialist mantra of messy government seizure and redistribution of wealth—which seems to be what bothers you, even though a true Nazi would see that as trivial and insignificant.

These values aren't leftist at all; they're purely right-wing. God, family, and Country—those are the three core pillars pushed to the extreme in the Nazi system. That’s why they’re right-wing.

But I guess for you, the economic sphere and the liberties attached to it are everything... for them, it was completely irrelevant.

Wait, whose theory even is this? Seriously! Look, work itself isn't some holy end goal—it’s just how you create value. You do the job, you produce something useful, and then someone else is willing to pay you for that output. At the end of the day, capital is nothing more than a tool—just a means to an end to help you buy the value you've actually created. Honestly, the whole "labor theory of value" thing was laughed out of serious economic circles ages ago!

I honestly don't get where people are pulling these assumptions from—this whole "clash between labor and capital" nonsense just doesn't have any real-world basis! It’s like they're reading from a textbook that hasn't been updated since the Great Depression or something. Seriously, if you actually look at how the economy functions today, this idea of a constant, fundamental war between workers and big business is just... well, it's totally disconnected from reality. It's all just theory and zero substance!
Quincy:

So, looking back at that first point—it’s pretty wild how much the Nazi Party talked a big game about how you can't find true individual value in a capitalist system driven by nothing but greed and selfish interests. They acted like they were totally against the whole profit-chasing thing, right? But honestly, if you look at what was actually happening on the ground, it was a complete contradiction! The biggest German capitalists—I mean, the massive industrial giants over there—were actually some of the most vocal supporters of the Nazi Party. Why? Because they saw them as this ultimate shield against Bolshevism. It wasn't some ideological crusade for them; it was pure survival and power. And get this—the Nazi Party never actually moved to nationalize industries or touch anyone's profit margins. Not once! Instead, the capitalists basically just hijacked the entire German war machine to line their own pockets. It was less about "national greatness" and more about using the state to fuel massive private wealth. Talk about a hustle!

What are you even talking about?! Seriously—if you look at their actual names, their policies, and their whole damn platform, the Nazi Party are socialists through and through!
So, I was just deep-diving into this Wikipedia entry about the National Socialist Program—you know, that whole heavy topic—and man, it really makes you think about how much history repeats itself if we aren't careful! It’s wild how they laid everything out so systematically back then. I was actually reading some comments from earlier, and I kind of see where Bradley Sanders4 was coming from regarding the economic shifts, though I have to say, I think he's being a bit too optimistic about how those policies actually played out on the ground. And hey, vividfox9, I saw your point about the social restructuring aspect—totally agree that it wasn't just about money, it was about total control of the lifestyle. It’s honestly pretty intense when you look at the sheer scale of what the Nazi Party tried to implement. It wasn't just a few laws; it was like they wanted to rewire the entire concept of society. It reminds me a bit of those massive corporate takeovers we see in the US sometimes—where one entity just tries to swallow up every single aspect of life until there's nothing left of the old way. Super crazy stuff! Anyway, just my two cents while I'm down this rabbit hole!

Quincy:

Real value only comes when you're all-in for the Fatherland—we're talking total devotion, sacrifice, and that sense of unity that only comes from shared struggle and blood spilled for the cause! Honestly, the true way to live is by laying down those individual liberties on the altar of the nation, because let’s be real: the State is everything. The individual is basically nothing in the grand scheme of things—the State calls the shots on everything from what you wear to who you're allowed to marry! Look, this whole victim narrative doesn't have anything to do with that tired old socialist mantra about the government being some big, shady machine that just steals and redistributes wealth—you know, that stuff that seems to bug you so much? Honestly, any true follower of the Nazi Party would just see that kind of talk as totally trivial and insignificant!

Look, the whole thing about how a regime stays in power boils-down to one simple thing—they grab all this massive authority just so they can muscle their way around people and property. Take the Nazi Party, for example—they basically ran the entire show! We're talking about them having total control over the monetary system, the private markets, and the economy at large—all because they were handed these insane levels of power. You couldn't even dream of setting up a system like that without the state having those wild, unchecked powers to boss people and assets around just to fit whatever central plan some party planners cooked up in a room somewhere. It’s all about that central control, really!
Quincy:

Man, let me tell you—those values aren't even remotely leftist! Not by a long shot!

Man, these values are basically just the textbook definition of the political Left. We're talking about an all-powerful government that tries to micromanage people and their property based on some central plan cooked up by planners who hold a total monopoly on force. It’s the Left through and through—they want to run everything head-first and heel-first!

Look, they already took right-wing stuff—like God, family, and the Homeland—and pushed them way past the breaking point in that whole Nazi Party system. That’s why the Nazis were right-wingers in the first place.

The government basically runs the whole show—money, banks, the economy, pricing, schools, healthcare, pensions—they grab it all by the horns, just like the leftists want. And we're talking the socialist left, which is pretty much exactly what it says on the tin!

Oh, obviously, you think the economic side and all those freedoms tied to it are the main thing, whereas for them, it doesn't even matter.

Well, duh, of course it matters! Because without total control over everything being created and the people creating it—all through some crazy repressive government machine—you wouldn't even have Nazi-style totalitarianism. Economics is the absolute backbone here, especially when you factor in the state having the power to enforce their big "central plan," which usually involves crushing any other freedoms those socialist planners dream up just to hit their social goals.

crimsonwolf20 said:Wait, whose theory even is this? Seriously! Look, work itself isn't some holy end goal—it’s just how you create value. You do the job, you produce something useful, and then someone else is willing to pay you for that output. At the end of the day, capital is nothing more than a tool—just a means to an end to help you buy the value you've actually created. Honestly, the whole "labor theory of value" thing was laughed out of serious economic circles ages ago!

I honestly don't get where people are pulling these assumptions from—this whole "clash between labor and capital" nonsense just doesn't have any real-world basis! It’s like they're reading from a textbook that hasn't been updated since the Great Depression or something. Seriously, if you actually look at how the economy functions today, this idea of a constant, fundamental war between workers and big business is just... well, it's totally disconnected from reality. It's all just theory and zero substance!
Quincy:

So, looking back at that first point—it’s pretty wild how much the Nazi Party talked a big game about how you can't find true individual value in a capitalist system driven by nothing but greed and selfish interests. They acted like they were totally against the whole profit-chasing thing, right? But honestly, if you look at what was actually happening on the ground, it was a complete contradiction! The biggest German capitalists—I mean, the massive industrial giants over there—were actually some of the most vocal supporters of the Nazi Party. Why? Because they saw them as this ultimate shield against Bolshevism. It wasn't some ideological crusade for them; it was pure survival and power. And get this—the Nazi Party never actually moved to nationalize industries or touch anyone's profit margins. Not once! Instead, the capitalists basically just hijacked the entire German war machine to line their own pockets. It was less about "national greatness" and more about using the state to fuel massive private wealth. Talk about a hustle!

What are you even talking about?! Seriously—if you look at their actual names, their policies, and their whole damn platform, the Nazi Party are socialists through and through!
So, I was just deep-diving into this Wikipedia entry about the National Socialist Program—you know, that whole heavy topic—and man, it really makes you think about how much history repeats itself if we aren't careful! It’s wild how they laid everything out so systematically back then. I was actually reading some comments from earlier, and I kind of see where Bradley Sanders4 was coming from regarding the economic shifts, though I have to say, I think he's being a bit too optimistic about how those policies actually played out on the ground. And hey, vividfox9, I saw your point about the social restructuring aspect—totally agree that it wasn't just about money, it was about total control of the lifestyle. It’s honestly pretty intense when you look at the sheer scale of what the Nazi Party tried to implement. It wasn't just a few laws; it was like they wanted to rewire the entire concept of society. It reminds me a bit of those massive corporate takeovers we see in the US sometimes—where one entity just tries to swallow up every single aspect of life until there's nothing left of the old way. Super crazy stuff! Anyway, just my two cents while I'm down this rabbit hole!

Quincy:

Real value only comes when you're all-in for the Fatherland—we're talking total devotion, sacrifice, and that sense of unity that only comes from shared struggle and blood spilled for the cause! Honestly, the true way to live is by laying down those individual liberties on the altar of the nation, because let’s be real: the State is everything. The individual is basically nothing in the grand scheme of things—the State calls the shots on everything from what you wear to who you're allowed to marry! Look, this whole victim narrative doesn't have anything to do with that tired old socialist mantra about the government being some big, shady machine that just steals and redistributes wealth—you know, that stuff that seems to bug you so much? Honestly, any true follower of the Nazi Party would just see that kind of talk as totally trivial and insignificant!

Look, the whole thing about how a regime stays in power boils-down to one simple thing—they grab all this massive authority just so they can muscle their way around people and property. Take the Nazi Party, for example—they basically ran the entire show! We're talking about them having total control over the monetary system, the private markets, and the economy at large—all because they were handed these insane levels of power. You couldn't even dream of setting up a system like that without the state having those wild, unchecked powers to boss people and assets around just to fit whatever central plan some party planners cooked up in a room somewhere. It’s all about that central control, really!
Quincy:

Man, let me tell you—those values aren't even remotely leftist! Not by a long shot!

Man, these values are basically just the textbook definition of the political Left. We're talking about an all-powerful government that tries to micromanage people and their property based on some central plan cooked up by planners who hold a total monopoly on force. It’s the Left through and through—they want to run everything head-first and heel-first!

Look, they already took right-wing stuff—like God, family, and the Homeland—and pushed them way past the breaking point in that whole Nazi Party system. That’s why the Nazis were right-wingers in the first place.

The government basically runs the whole show—money, banks, the economy, pricing, schools, healthcare, pensions—they grab it all by the horns, just like the leftists want. And we're talking the socialist left, which is pretty much exactly what it says on the tin!

Oh, obviously, you think the economic side and all those freedoms tied to it are the main thing, whereas for them, it doesn't even matter.

Well, duh, of course it matters! Because without total control over everything being created and the people creating it—all through some crazy repressive government machine—you wouldn't even have Nazi-style totalitarianism. Economics is the absolute backbone here, especially when you factor in the state having the power to enforce their big "central plan," which usually involves crushing any other freedoms those socialist planners dream up just to hit their social goals.

Germany's economy absolutely took off once the Nazi Party grabbed control.

crimsonwolf20 said:Wait, whose theory even is this? Seriously! Look, work itself isn't some holy end goal—it’s just how you create value. You do the job, you produce something useful, and then someone else is willing to pay you for that output. At the end of the day, capital is nothing more than a tool—just a means to an end to help you buy the value you've actually created. Honestly, the whole "labor theory of value" thing was laughed out of serious economic circles ages ago!

I honestly don't get where people are pulling these assumptions from—this whole "clash between labor and capital" nonsense just doesn't have any real-world basis! It’s like they're reading from a textbook that hasn't been updated since the Great Depression or something. Seriously, if you actually look at how the economy functions today, this idea of a constant, fundamental war between workers and big business is just... well, it's totally disconnected from reality. It's all just theory and zero substance!
Quincy:

So, looking back at that first point—it’s pretty wild how much the Nazi Party talked a big game about how you can't find true individual value in a capitalist system driven by nothing but greed and selfish interests. They acted like they were totally against the whole profit-chasing thing, right? But honestly, if you look at what was actually happening on the ground, it was a complete contradiction! The biggest German capitalists—I mean, the massive industrial giants over there—were actually some of the most vocal supporters of the Nazi Party. Why? Because they saw them as this ultimate shield against Bolshevism. It wasn't some ideological crusade for them; it was pure survival and power. And get this—the Nazi Party never actually moved to nationalize industries or touch anyone's profit margins. Not once! Instead, the capitalists basically just hijacked the entire German war machine to line their own pockets. It was less about "national greatness" and more about using the state to fuel massive private wealth. Talk about a hustle!

What are you even talking about?! Seriously—if you look at their actual names, their policies, and their whole damn platform, the Nazi Party are socialists through and through!
So, I was just deep-diving into this Wikipedia entry about the National Socialist Program—you know, that whole heavy topic—and man, it really makes you think about how much history repeats itself if we aren't careful! It’s wild how they laid everything out so systematically back then. I was actually reading some comments from earlier, and I kind of see where Bradley Sanders4 was coming from regarding the economic shifts, though I have to say, I think he's being a bit too optimistic about how those policies actually played out on the ground. And hey, vividfox9, I saw your point about the social restructuring aspect—totally agree that it wasn't just about money, it was about total control of the lifestyle. It’s honestly pretty intense when you look at the sheer scale of what the Nazi Party tried to implement. It wasn't just a few laws; it was like they wanted to rewire the entire concept of society. It reminds me a bit of those massive corporate takeovers we see in the US sometimes—where one entity just tries to swallow up every single aspect of life until there's nothing left of the old way. Super crazy stuff! Anyway, just my two cents while I'm down this rabbit hole!

Quincy:

Real value only comes when you're all-in for the Fatherland—we're talking total devotion, sacrifice, and that sense of unity that only comes from shared struggle and blood spilled for the cause! Honestly, the true way to live is by laying down those individual liberties on the altar of the nation, because let’s be real: the State is everything. The individual is basically nothing in the grand scheme of things—the State calls the shots on everything from what you wear to who you're allowed to marry! Look, this whole victim narrative doesn't have anything to do with that tired old socialist mantra about the government being some big, shady machine that just steals and redistributes wealth—you know, that stuff that seems to bug you so much? Honestly, any true follower of the Nazi Party would just see that kind of talk as totally trivial and insignificant!

Look, the whole thing about how a regime stays in power boils-down to one simple thing—they grab all this massive authority just so they can muscle their way around people and property. Take the Nazi Party, for example—they basically ran the entire show! We're talking about them having total control over the monetary system, the private markets, and the economy at large—all because they were handed these insane levels of power. You couldn't even dream of setting up a system like that without the state having those wild, unchecked powers to boss people and assets around just to fit whatever central plan some party planners cooked up in a room somewhere. It’s all about that central control, really!
Quincy:

Man, let me tell you—those values aren't even remotely leftist! Not by a long shot!

Man, these values are basically just the textbook definition of the political Left. We're talking about an all-powerful government that tries to micromanage people and their property based on some central plan cooked up by planners who hold a total monopoly on force. It’s the Left through and through—they want to run everything head-first and heel-first!

Look, they already took right-wing stuff—like God, family, and the Homeland—and pushed them way past the breaking point in that whole Nazi Party system. That’s why the Nazis were right-wingers in the first place.

The government basically runs the whole show—money, banks, the economy, pricing, schools, healthcare, pensions—they grab it all by the horns, just like the leftists want. And we're talking the socialist left, which is pretty much exactly what it says on the tin!

Oh, obviously, you think the economic side and all those freedoms tied to it are the main thing, whereas for them, it doesn't even matter.

Well, duh, of course it matters! Because without total control over everything being created and the people creating it—all through some crazy repressive government machine—you wouldn't even have Nazi-style totalitarianism. Economics is the absolute backbone here, especially when you factor in the state having the power to enforce their big "central plan," which usually involves crushing any other freedoms those socialist planners dream up just to hit their social goals.

Look, you're seeing things in black and white. The real world has a lot more shades to it...

The whole labor versus capital struggle defined the 19th and 20th centuries, and now crimsonwolf20 is just looking around at the world today like... what even is this? I don't get it. I just can't accept it...

It’s that classic move where some corporate shark grabs a massive stake in a major firm under shady circumstances, then starts bleeding that company dry just to plug holes in his other businesses... He stops paying the suppliers and guts the core strength of a solid brand with a huge presence across America, all while buying up luxury real estate and high-end cars. Eventually, you go from cutting transit benefits and meal allowances straight down to him not even paying people their wages...

Drop the ideological nonsense...

Historically speaking, the left started out fighting for workers while the right fought for capital. At first, they both wanted radical fixes like getting rid of private property entirely, but eventually, they just settled for working within the capitalist system...

When you produce a cake, you have to slice it up. That’s where the whole labor vs. capital conflict kicks in... right when you're dividing the pie...

You're totally missing my point...

The leftists just have too much free time on their hands. It’s not exactly hard work... It really comes down to how someone chooses to spend that time and what they actually value. Whether they want to live alone or start a family, if they believe in God or not, or if they think being American is defined by birth and culture... basically, whether they want an open society where you define your own good, or a closed one where the government does it for you...

That’s the real line between the right and the left. It isn't just about obsessing over the bottom line in every single scenario...

I doubt you’ll get this, but by those actual standards, the Nazi Party was a right-wing party. Purely right-wing.

Either way, your take is pretty avant-garde. Maybe you should write a paper claiming Hitler was actually a leftist and send it over to a political science institute in Germany. Who knows, maybe your theory uncovers some hidden peak of historical thought we haven't seen yet...

It’s also pretty obvious how obsessed you are with Marx. You view everything through an economic lens, like money is the only thing that matters and everything else is secondary. For me, it's about spirit and ideas; the economics are just extra. You don't even realize it, but you sound so Marxist. Just freaking Marxist.

The thing is, what you despise so much about Marx is actually just your own reflection. Like any mirror image, just slightly flipped...

It’s basically like a peasant or a blue-collar worker working for some high-society earls—acting all patriotic about it while refusing to ditch the system even though the proletariat wants change. Honestly, looking at things through today's lens, that whole mindset feels pretty outdated.

Bradley Sanders4 said:Look, those people are workers too. Being "the working class" isn't just about punching a clock at some massive factory plant.

I agree, they are definitely workers.
But I see them as people without any real momentum. It’s a crowd that just bends to the pressure, chasing after an extra buck or wherever they can find a quick win.
It feels more like a lottery than a stable working class. It's this fragmented group that lacks any sense of permanence.

On top of that, there's zero real interest in unions. There's just no motivation there.
If you can grab a little more today, you feel secure enough for tomorrow.

David Vaughn75 said:Germany's economy absolutely took off once the Nazi Party grabbed control.

🤣

And we all know exactly how that little experiment ended 👍