US-EU Rift

Lately, we’ve been seeing all this news about how Trump is constantly bashing the EU. He talks about lifting tariffs, though he won't actually do it, but he sure does find plenty of ways to claim the EU has done him wrong.
It’s like the US is still footing the bill to defend Europe from God knows who—maybe those bad guys from the Soviet Union back in '85 or whatever—but nobody ever bothered to mention to the guy in the orange motorcade that the Soviet Union actually collapsed.

I want to pose a question for discussion here: if the EU and the USA can't reach an agreement on trade, is there a realistic alternative for the EU besides sticking with its current alliance with the US? Could they pivot toward an alliance with almost anyone else? For instance, what about an alliance with Russia, which serves as a natural market for European goods and acts as a primary source for energy and raw materials?
Or perhaps an alliance with China, given it’s such a massive powerhouse with huge growth potential and a nation that seems genuinely willing to engage in trade—something that currently functions quite well between China and the EU?

Is the US truly an essential partner for the EU, or is it more like an anchor dragging them down?

Lately, Macron has been pushing hard for the EU to step up and handle its own finances and defense. He’s being pretty blunt about it too.

“Europe can no longer rely solely on the United States for its security. We must guarantee our own security and sovereignty.”

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...onomy-from-u-s

So yeah, we're looking at a major rift. Absolutely.
I don't see them jumping into an alliance with China or Russia anytime soon. It's more likely they'll just start talking about trade deals that aren't dictated by Washington.

Steven Perez60 said:Lately, Macron has been pushing hard for the EU to step up and handle its own finances and defense. He’s being pretty blunt about it too.

“Europe can no longer rely solely on the United States for its security. We must guarantee our own security and sovereignty.”

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...onomy-from-u-s

So yeah, we're looking at a major rift. Absolutely.
I don't see them jumping into an alliance with China or Russia anytime soon. It's more likely they'll just start talking about trade deals that aren't dictated by Washington.

Even Merkel once called for "defense autonomy because we can no longer rely on the USA," and nothing really came of it. Heiko Maas also recently advocated for an EU SWIFT system—since Russia and China have their own and we are stuck using the American one, which they can freeze whenever they feel like it—but again, silence. I find myself wondering how much of a threat this actually poses to the interests of the US deep state. Trump will come and go when he pleases, but if they sever ties with the EU, which functions essentially as a US colony today, that would be a massive loss for them.

Steven Perez60 said:Lately, Macron has been pushing hard for the EU to step up and handle its own finances and defense. He’s being pretty blunt about it too.

“Europe can no longer rely solely on the United States for its security. We must guarantee our own security and sovereignty.”

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...onomy-from-u-s

So yeah, we're looking at a major rift. Absolutely.
I don't see them jumping into an alliance with China or Russia anytime soon. It's more likely they'll just start talking about trade deals that aren't dictated by Washington.

Exactly. Free trade with China and Russia, but less "free" when it comes to the USA. Also, it's time to kill the delusional fantasy that we need the US military to defend us from some evil Russians looking to militarily conquer the EU. There isn't even a real military threat to the EU.

Russia is arguably on equal footing militarily with an EU that lacks the USA, especially since the EU has at least one member with nuclear weapons. Furthermore, in a prolonged conflict, the EU is economically far more powerful than Russia. On top of that, the EU and Russia are excellent partners. Russia won't sell its gas and oil to America, but they are willing to sell to the EU. Conversely, the EU can easily sell industrial goods to Russia, whereas doing so with America is difficult. It is actually a great deal for Russia if the EU shifts from being a NATO threat to becoming a partner that aids in its development. This doesn't mean they can't trade with the USA, but if the USA tries to use blackmail, I don't see them having much leverage over the EU, which always has the option of moving closer to Russia. If Americans try to bully them, the EU will simply listen even less.

Forget everything Macron says. Just look at who put him in power and what his whole agenda actually is.
It’s the exact same deal with those German statements—they’ll act like they’re pressuring Trump to fall back in line with the old guard and stick to those globalist deals. All while pretending to be "defenders of the people" just to claw back some popularity from everyone fed up with globalization.
The thing is, they can't even think outside the box. They're hardwired for this: globalization, NATO, "democracy" run by clones, multiculturalism, all that junk.
Trump knows they’re bluffing with empty threats and that he can basically play them like a fiddle. We can take all those old jokes we used to tell about Bulgaria and Romania back during the Warsaw Pact days and just recycle them now. Especially that one about the Bulgarians sending spicy peppers to the Russians, but they end up arriving sweet. 🤣🎉🎉🎉

nimblepuma69 said:Forget everything Macron says. Just look at who put him in power and what his whole agenda actually is.
It’s the exact same deal with those German statements—they’ll act like they’re pressuring Trump to fall back in line with the old guard and stick to those globalist deals. All while pretending to be "defenders of the people" just to claw back some popularity from everyone fed up with globalization.
The thing is, they can't even think outside the box. They're hardwired for this: globalization, NATO, "democracy" run by clones, multiculturalism, all that junk.
Trump knows they’re bluffing with empty threats and that he can basically play them like a fiddle. We can take all those old jokes we used to tell about Bulgaria and Romania back during the Warsaw Pact days and just recycle them now. Especially that one about the Bulgarians sending spicy peppers to the Russians, but they end up arriving sweet. 🤣🎉🎉🎉

Exactly, that is the core EU dogma. Trump stands as the anti-establishment outlier to that doctrine, whereas his predecessor was actually an advocate for maintaining it.

nimblepuma69 said:Forget everything Macron says. Just look at who put him in power and what his whole agenda actually is.
It’s the exact same deal with those German statements—they’ll act like they’re pressuring Trump to fall back in line with the old guard and stick to those globalist deals. All while pretending to be "defenders of the people" just to claw back some popularity from everyone fed up with globalization.
The thing is, they can't even think outside the box. They're hardwired for this: globalization, NATO, "democracy" run by clones, multiculturalism, all that junk.
Trump knows they’re bluffing with empty threats and that he can basically play them like a fiddle. We can take all those old jokes we used to tell about Bulgaria and Romania back during the Warsaw Pact days and just recycle them now. Especially that one about the Bulgarians sending spicy peppers to the Russians, but they end up arriving sweet. 🤣🎉🎉🎉

How exactly do you imagine Trump has any real leverage over the EU? You make him sound incredibly naive: one moment he’s threatening to scrap tariffs, the next he isn't. It makes him look like a blackmailer peddling a 2% defense spending demand, hoping those funds will magically end up buying American weapons—which isn't even a guarantee. Fundamentally, the US currently runs a massive deficit with both the EU and the rest of the world: they import goods and, in exchange, provide dollars, which the world then uses to purchase Fed notes. If this trajectory continues, it won't just be Russia dropping Fed notes; eventually, fewer and fewer companies will be willing to accept dollars for their products. Trump is essentially gambling with the status of the dollar as the world's reserve currency, a position from which the USA derives immense benefits. Disrupting that would cause a massive global shockwave, but it is highly unlikely to result in anything beneficial for the USA, which effectively taxes the rest of the world via dollar-driven inflation today.

Is there anything more obvious than trying to build better ties with our own neighbors? Yet, here we are, somehow choosing some local lowlife who’s just looking to scam us.
It’s a shame that physically, Europe is drifting away from America at the speed of growing fingernails.

nimbleharbor10 said:Even Merkel once called for "defense autonomy because we can no longer rely on the USA," and nothing really came of it. Heiko Maas also recently advocated for an EU SWIFT system—since Russia and China have their own and we are stuck using the American one, which they can freeze whenever they feel like it—but again, silence. I find myself wondering how much of a threat this actually poses to the interests of the US deep state. Trump will come and go when he pleases, but if they sever ties with the EU, which functions essentially as a US colony today, that would be a massive loss for them.

Exactly. Free trade with China and Russia, but less "free" when it comes to the USA. Also, it's time to kill the delusional fantasy that we need the US military to defend us from some evil Russians looking to militarily conquer the EU. There isn't even a real military threat to the EU.

Russia is arguably on equal footing militarily with an EU that lacks the USA, especially since the EU has at least one member with nuclear weapons. Furthermore, in a prolonged conflict, the EU is economically far more powerful than Russia. On top of that, the EU and Russia are excellent partners. Russia won't sell its gas and oil to America, but they are willing to sell to the EU. Conversely, the EU can easily sell industrial goods to Russia, whereas doing so with America is difficult. It is actually a great deal for Russia if the EU shifts from being a NATO threat to becoming a partner that aids in its development. This doesn't mean they can't trade with the USA, but if the USA tries to use blackmail, I don't see them having much leverage over the EU, which always has the option of moving closer to Russia. If Americans try to bully them, the EU will simply listen even less.

Statements like that would've been unthinkable just a year or two ago, so they carry weight. And obviously, nothing happens overnight because you can't pull off a total pivot that fast. For instance, switching to an alternative to Swift would seriously threaten the dollar's status, and everyone is terrified of that because it could trigger dangerous market volatility. But quietly, everyone is scooping up gold and dumping US Treasuries. As for the deep state; think of it as an international octopus parasitizing everything outside US borders. When Trump starts creating friction with the EU or cutting trade ties, he's basically just cutting off those octopus tentacles. That's my take, anyway. The deep state can't survive if the current global setup collapses. Just my opinion.

Russia is pretty much on equal military footing with the EU without the US, but the EU has at least one member with nukes, plus in a long-term conflict, the EU is economically way stronger than Russia. Plus, the EU and Russia are great partners. Russia won't sell gas and oil to America, but they'll sell it to the EU. The EU can easily sell industrial goods to Russia, whereas it's tougher to sell to America. It's a win-win for Russia if the EU shifts from being a NATO threat to a partner helping them develop. This doesn't mean they can't trade with the USA, but if the USA tries to play blackmail, I don't see them having much leverage over the EU, since the EU always has the option to lean closer to Russia. If the Americans try to bully them, the EU might just listen even less.

Russia remains the second military superpower; nothing has changed there since the end of the Cold War. And nothing is going to change that anytime soon. No one can stand up to Russia or America all on their own. The biggest issue is how those powers get abused.
It's interesting how US-Russia trade is still booming despite the sanctions. Even military and intelligence cooperation and space research stuff are still happening. It's pretty mysterious when you look at how things appear on the surface.
For the EU, it would be enough to just stop participating in the deep state's crazy schemes and pull away from the dominance of mega-corporations (which are also indirectly part of the deep state).

nimblepuma69 said:Forget everything Macron says. Just look at who put him in power and what his whole agenda actually is.
It’s the exact same deal with those German statements—they’ll act like they’re pressuring Trump to fall back in line with the old guard and stick to those globalist deals. All while pretending to be "defenders of the people" just to claw back some popularity from everyone fed up with globalization.
The thing is, they can't even think outside the box. They're hardwired for this: globalization, NATO, "democracy" run by clones, multiculturalism, all that junk.
Trump knows they’re bluffing with empty threats and that he can basically play them like a fiddle. We can take all those old jokes we used to tell about Bulgaria and Romania back during the Warsaw Pact days and just recycle them now. Especially that one about the Bulgarians sending spicy peppers to the Russians, but they end up arriving sweet. 🤣🎉🎉🎉

Macron couldn't have picked a worse time to win an election... if you ask me.
If Obama were in the WH, people outside of France wouldn't even remember his name, and the same goes for Trudeau.
By the way... the whole European Defense Force project is ancient news and gets backed by the US, but it’s turned out to be even more expensive than just paying into NATO. 🤣
Obama supported the project and was quite sharp when it came to European (non)contributions to NATO—no less than Trump—but he was always too hesitant... let's just say he was quiet about it. 😁
Now that "that fool" is in the WH, and Merkel doesn't give a damn about any of it... Macron has simply been called up because Trudeau can't step up... the guy just isn't capable.

Edit: The EU as it stands today won't survive. The only question is how and in what manner it will eventually fall apart. Merkel once suggested a two-speed Europe, which would have caught everyone off guard, but that was then.

A fundamental schism between the trans-Atlantic hegemon and its vassal states is simply an impossibility. What we are witnessing are merely minor squabbles regarding the exact amount of tribute owed to the sovereign. The master will inevitably settle this matter with a thunderous decree and a sharp strike of his scepter—or, more accurately, through those "consultations" held by vassal leaders at institutions in Washington D.C. that mirror the administrative bodies found throughout every subordinate nation.

rowdytiger13 said:Macron couldn't have picked a worse time to win an election... if you ask me.
If Obama were in the WH, people outside of France wouldn't even remember his name, and the same goes for Trudeau.
By the way... the whole European Defense Force project is ancient news and gets backed by the US, but it’s turned out to be even more expensive than just paying into NATO. 🤣
Obama supported the project and was quite sharp when it came to European (non)contributions to NATO—no less than Trump—but he was always too hesitant... let's just say he was quiet about it. 😁
Now that "that fool" is in the WH, and Merkel doesn't give a damn about any of it... Macron has simply been called up because Trudeau can't step up... the guy just isn't capable.

Edit: The EU as it stands today won't survive. The only question is how and in what manner it will eventually fall apart. Merkel once suggested a two-speed Europe, which would have caught everyone off guard, but that was then.

The EU is a total scam, just like America. They built the structure but forgot to actually build a people, whether you call them Europeans or anything else. When it breaks, it’ll be messy—some parts will fight, some might walk away peacefully—but honestly, who cares about the drama? The real story is the massive heist happening behind the scenes. It’s just like when America fell apart: one giant robbery planned from the start. But look, let's pivot away from the EU for a second. I'm actually losing sleep over Switzerland. How long can a place like that even last? Will they split into tiny pieces or just get swallowed up by their neighbors? Switzerland isn't the "neutral oasis" it used to be. I'm trying to figure out what the endgame is for them and if there's an expiration date on their existence. To me, that’s way more interesting than the EU, which even its biggest fans are starting to realize is circling the drain.

nimblepuma69 said:The EU is a total scam, just like America. They built the structure but forgot to actually build a people, whether you call them Europeans or anything else. When it breaks, it’ll be messy—some parts will fight, some might walk away peacefully—but honestly, who cares about the drama? The real story is the massive heist happening behind the scenes. It’s just like when America fell apart: one giant robbery planned from the start. But look, let's pivot away from the EU for a second. I'm actually losing sleep over Switzerland. How long can a place like that even last? Will they split into tiny pieces or just get swallowed up by their neighbors? Switzerland isn't the "neutral oasis" it used to be. I'm trying to figure out what the endgame is for them and if there's an expiration date on their existence. To me, that’s way more interesting than the EU, which even its biggest fans are starting to realize is circling the drain.

Not quite... it'll survive, but not in its current form.
A two-speed system and a detached carriage. It seems the Germans are pushing back against that scenario even harder than the Russians are.

rowdytiger13 said:Not quite... it'll survive, but not in its current form.
A two-speed system and a detached carriage. It seems the Germans are pushing back against that scenario even harder than the Russians are.

You’re just swallowing whatever the media feeds you in the short term.
The only way they stay afloat is if the far-right takes over, but then we aren't talking about the EU anymore—it becomes a Fourth Reich (and we all know how that ends). Plus, that whole globalist, multi-cultural path was basically a fast track to civil war. Flip it around and Trump actually looks like the best option—with him, there's no shady business or long-term schemes for a massive heist; he just openly tries to demand his protection money.

nimblepuma69 said:You’re just swallowing whatever the media feeds you in the short term.
The only way they stay afloat is if the far-right takes over, but then we aren't talking about the EU anymore—it becomes a Fourth Reich (and we all know how that ends). Plus, that whole globalist, multi-cultural path was basically a fast track to civil war. Flip it around and Trump actually looks like the best option—with him, there's no shady business or long-term schemes for a massive heist; he just openly tries to demand his protection money.

I honestly don't see how Trump is considered "good" when his whole strategy is basically an open demand for extortion. The man is primitive, and he's driving a wedge right through alliances that were perfectly intact until yesterday. If he keeps acting this way, we're going to end up seeing sanctions and retaliatory tariffs flying back and forth between the EU and the USA, creating a vicious cycle where both sides just keep hitting each other with more and more duties.

Look, there isn’t some massive rift happening here—it’s actually pretty simple! Trump is just looking out for his own backyard, and Europe is doing the exact same thing. It’s all about self-interest, really. Trump is focused on protecting the American economy, and he’s definitely not interested in footing the entire bill for NATO if he doesn't have to.

electriccanyon6 said:Look, there isn’t some massive rift happening here—it’s actually pretty simple! Trump is just looking out for his own backyard, and Europe is doing the exact same thing. It’s all about self-interest, really. Trump is focused on protecting the American economy, and he’s definitely not interested in footing the entire bill for NATO if he doesn't have to.

He doesn't have to. Leaving NATO would basically be political suicide for him, and let's be honest, it's not like NATO is synonymous with the USA.
Just as Trump knows that Europeans make plenty of empty threats, Europeans know that when it comes to NATO... Trump is mostly bluffing. There is zero chance they'll actually hike up their contributions, especially since they've already told him—and others—exactly where they stand.
Let him try it...

nimblepuma69 said:The EU is a total scam, just like America. They built the structure but forgot to actually build a people, whether you call them Europeans or anything else. When it breaks, it’ll be messy—some parts will fight, some might walk away peacefully—but honestly, who cares about the drama? The real story is the massive heist happening behind the scenes. It’s just like when America fell apart: one giant robbery planned from the start. But look, let's pivot away from the EU for a second. I'm actually losing sleep over Switzerland. How long can a place like that even last? Will they split into tiny pieces or just get swallowed up by their neighbors? Switzerland isn't the "neutral oasis" it used to be. I'm trying to figure out what the endgame is for them and if there's an expiration date on their existence. To me, that’s way more interesting than the EU, which even its biggest fans are starting to realize is circling the drain.

Look, the EU isn't America, and nobody is trying to turn it into that. Honestly, the whole idea that it's falling apart is mostly just happening in your head. At its core, it's a trade association, and that's how you have to look at it. It basically means I sell things to you, you sell things to me, and we both operate under stable conditions. Money flows, banks are swimming in it, and development capital is available on decent terms... I mean, what kind of fool would actually tear that down? The Britons made a huge mistake with Brexit, and honestly, their exit isn't even set in stone; anything can happen. Every country looks out for its own interests, which leads to little squabbles, but that's just how it works. I guess it's all pretty incomprehensible to someone living in a place like the Ozarks, especially with a little mini-dictator like Dodik acting like a lifetime president. Over here in the EU Parliament, people actually negotiate and eventually reach an agreement. That's called democracy, in case you haven't heard.☕
If you ever actually left that backwater, traveled through Europe, and did some real business with Europeans, you'd see that nothing is collapsing. If anything, things are growing and life is good. The only ones getting left behind are Putin's Russia and his lackeys. After the annexation of Crimea America, the West made a few simple moves and sent them back twenty or thirty years.
Trump is just a temporary setback, and once his term is up, everything will probably go back to the way it was.

nimbleharbor10 said:I honestly don't see how Trump is considered "good" when his whole strategy is basically an open demand for extortion. The man is primitive, and he's driving a wedge right through alliances that were perfectly intact until yesterday. If he keeps acting this way, we're going to end up seeing sanctions and retaliatory tariffs flying back and forth between the EU and the USA, creating a vicious cycle where both sides just keep hitting each other with more and more duties.

He's fine.
Some other guy would've just played nice for a bit before reaching for the wallet. At least he isn't one of those globalists who'd trick Europeans into destroying themselves just so they can hand over their cash out of pure gratitude.
Even Roosevelt was a saint compared to today's vultures, helping Europeans bleed out while they paid him in gold for weapons and food.
Look, you can split the Anglo-Saxons into categories:
- Trump
- bad
- worse
- absolute trash
- Hillary.

Let's be real: the US isn't an ally to the EU. Not even the UK is. They never were. The Euro is basically just a rival to the Dollar. These trade wars have been going on since forever.
Only total suckers fall for the hype about the Russian threat. Russia isn't a competitor, and they aren't a threat to the US or the EU. They're just some noise in the background of this whole mess.

rowdytiger13 said:He doesn't have to. Leaving NATO would basically be political suicide for him, and let's be honest, it's not like NATO is synonymous with the USA.
Just as Trump knows that Europeans make plenty of empty threats, Europeans know that when it comes to NATO... Trump is mostly bluffing. There is zero chance they'll actually hike up their contributions, especially since they've already told him—and others—exactly where they stand.
Let him try it...

Why on earth would the USA dismantle a coalition that essentially dictates its policy and provides a layer of quasi-legitimacy whenever it decides to take action? They aren't that delusional.

Regarding the EU and the 2% NATO target, I believe most EU nations have agreed to it, but not by spiking their spending overnight; rather, they are doing it incrementally. There are no specific mandates on how that money must be spent, and the EU isn't foolish enough to dump most of it back into American weaponry. European defense systems work perfectly fine, and if they truly need to ramp up spending, they will prioritize their own domestic manufacturers or invest heavily in their own personnel costs.

I don't see a full-blown split happening; that wouldn't serve anyone's interests. But let's be real: the US isn't looking for a powerhouse EU, and that doesn't sit well with Russia either. Americans are going to undermine the EU one way or another—especially if Trump secures a second term—because they want a Europe that fits their specific agenda, not some independent European superpower.

It’s pretty obvious what Trump’s crowd is after: they want a market for their goods, sure, but instead of Latinos, they want a bunch of polished, white Europeans to fill the roles. Basically, they want to pull the exact same stunt on Europeans that they pulled on us.
Now the real question is whether the guy they put in charge will have the patience to let this scheme play out slowly, or if he’ll try to fast-track the whole thing.