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Curfew restrictions: Is it legal to leave your house?

Started by rustywalker42 · · 👁 132 views · 2K replies

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hollowmason64 hollowmason64 Regular
411 messages
joined Jan 2016
#1221 ·
Nicholas King said:It’s perfectly clear to me that someone working under the conditions you’re describing is going to be pissed off at everything, but that still doesn't give them any right to label everyone who thinks these measures are excessive or unenforceable as "those people who find it so hard and miserable at home."

We are talking about a banal fact—one that isn't exactly obvious if you're looking at it from a Washington, D.C. perspective—that people traveling for completely legitimate business reasons, or even totally valid personal ones, end up crossing through three or more different counties just to cover ten or fifteen miles. So, it’s not because they’re bored, and it’s certainly not because they’re trying to dodge a wife waiting for them at home; it’s due to legitimate life circumstances. There are very few idiots out there who would mess around under these conditions, and those folks can be dealt with separately.

Even if the police were standing on every corner ready to shoot anyone who stepped out of their front door, your specific working conditions wouldn't change. Therefore, I fail to see what connection your (admittedly unenviable) situation has to whether or not movement should be restricted.

Equally, I don't understand what connection someone's survival struggles from the nineties have to the legitimacy of today's restrictions—though a few people have used that exact logic to argue that today's bans are total nonsense.

Because in my mind, I connect the idea that the more people move around, the more they socialize and meet, which naturally extends our ability to tackle this evil.
I agree that this is brutal for people living in tight-knit small towns, and they really ought to find some kind of solution, like a weekly pass to handle necessary errands.

I also don't understand how someone's life or wartime struggles from back in '91 have any bearing on whether today's restrictions are justified—a few people have used that exact logic to claim today's bans are total nonsense.

People were explaining that to those who kept insisting this was unbearable and that people would eventually snap. But it isn't true that it's unbearable; it was just an example of how much people can endure when they absolutely have to. It's all mental. And clearly, we've become quite unreasonable in the process.

Amanda Hughes37 said:That's just your take. My neighbor works at Bipa; she had two grueling weeks of work and can barely wait to get back after her week of vacation. She's miserable sitting at home—and it's not like she's just slacking off at Bipa without any customer contact.

In reality, when she's working, her life is identical to how it was before, except her kid is home—but her dad is there too, so no worries there.
The last thing she wants is to skip work.
And she pities everyone who gets to stay home.🤣

Well, everyone has their own perspective. For what it's worth, I haven't left the house all week and I'm happy about it, though I am dreading having to go to the store next week.
wiredbison272 wiredbison272 Newcomer
9 messages
joined Mar 2020
#1222 ·
I usually just head into town, back to my own people, maybe stop by the doctor's office or the pharmacy, or hit up the bank. I don't really wander around aimlessly without a reason, but when there's something that needs doing, I'll make the trip.
Jessica Booth48 Jessica Booth48 Newcomer
6 messages
joined Mar 2020
#1223 ·
The Istria regional headquarters is pushing to scrap travel passes for former municipalities.
http://
Nicholas King Nicholas King Regular
716 messages
joined Jan 2023
#1224 ·
hollowmason64 said:Because in my mind, I connect the idea that the more people move around, the more they socialize and meet, which naturally extends our ability to tackle this evil.
I agree that this is brutal for people living in tight-knit small towns, and they really ought to find some kind of solution, like a weekly pass to handle necessary errands.

I also don't understand how someone's life or wartime struggles from back in '91 have any bearing on whether today's restrictions are justified—a few people have used that exact logic to claim today's bans are total nonsense.

People were explaining that to those who kept insisting this was unbearable and that people would eventually snap. But it isn't true that it's unbearable; it was just an example of how much people can endure when they absolutely have to. It's all mental. And clearly, we've become quite unreasonable in the process.

Well, everyone has their own perspective. For what it's worth, I haven't left the house all week and I'm happy about it, though I am dreading having to go to the store next week.

Someone who is right on the edge of breaking isn't going to walk away from that state by listening to someone else's even worse experiences or getting lectured about being "spoiled."

I think I mentioned this somewhere earlier today: any measure that seriously wrecks a huge number of people psychologically does more total harm than good. If—or when—people finally lose their minds and end up committing suicide or hurting someone else, then what? What's the solution then?

BTW, how exactly do you envision "ending this evil"? Are you imagining a day (relatively soon, before the economy completely collapses) where there just won't be any new infections anymore?
Bryan Taylor6 Bryan Taylor6 Active Member
179 messages
joined Oct 2017
#1225 ·
Jessica Booth48 said:The Istria regional headquarters is pushing to scrap travel passes for former municipalities.
http://

It's starting...

I expect other cities to follow suit.

Places 31 miles basically revolve around major cities, forming one social and economic unit. Movement shouldn't be restricted, especially since tens of thousands of people have already been commuting with passes anyway... there's no more significant way to stop the spread.
electricbadger89 electricbadger89 Regular
423 messages
joined May 2019
#1226 ·
Noah Thomas72 said:I have a question for anyone who might happen to know the specifics regarding pass issuance: here’s the situation—I don't actually live at my registered primary residence, even though my job is located in that same city. I’m currently living in a neighboring town, and I need a pass just to commute to work. Is it possible for my employer to issue one? When I use the online portal to apply, it asks me to enter an address; can I simply input the address where I am actually staying, even if it doesn't match what's on my ID?
By the way, I realize I’m entirely to blame for not updating my official address sooner, but hey, it is what it is. 😵

You can.
Melissa Collins3 Melissa Collins3 Member
36 messages
joined Mar 2020
#1227 ·
Amanda Hughes37 said:The local gas station outside my town handles all the e-cig liquid supplies. I ordered some online, but it didn't show up when promised—the one just 2.5 miles from my place... so now what? Just go around bothering people to buy stuff for you?


Maybe try walking instead of driving.
wiredbison272 wiredbison272 Newcomer
9 messages
joined Mar 2020
#1228 ·
Nicholas King said:When—or if—that judge's ruling on the fine actually shows up at your front door, what then? What's the plan? Are you just going to stop breathing? Start kicking your feet in protest? Close your eyes and pray you don't exist? Or maybe just complain about it all the way to the top of the food chain?

I am genuinely curious, though—what do these "I-don't-care-about-rules!!!!1!" heroes actually intend to do when their little displays of bravado are finally put to the test?

Look, if you can't handle it, that's your problem. I've never paid a fine in my life, so I'm certainly not starting now.
hollowviper hollowviper Member
10 messages
joined Apr 2020
#1229 ·
wiredbison272 said:They shot down my request too, and they didn't even bother giving me a reason why. Honestly, whatever, if I need to head out, I'm going. They haven't caught me yet, and I'm really hoping they don't, but if they do decide to pull me over, they can try and hit me with a fine for all it matters to me.

What would you guys do if they actually hit you with a fine?
driftingfox6 driftingfox6 Newcomer
5 messages
joined Mar 2020
#1230 ·
Susan Barrett2 said:Fine, sarcasm accepted.
Look, I get that it doesn't matter much to some random third party, but for those of us actually putting in the work and trying to build something real? Yeah, it matters.

Then you have some individual or even the government just cutting you off from your partner indefinitely. And then they act surprised when young people don't want to start families here, especially when so many people lack any sense of financial security. You never know when you might find yourself unemployed.

I’m currently stuck away from my own home—just a ten-minute drive away—because this law won't let me pass through.
Susan Barrett2 Susan Barrett2 Member
16 messages
joined Apr 2020
#1231 ·
hollowviper said:What would you guys do if they actually hit you with a fine?


Look, I'm not claiming to be some legal expert here—just my two cents—but I don't think they're actually handing out fines to everyone. It seems like they’re just targeting the people straight-up breaking self-isolation rules. Even Božinović mentioned that the goal isn't to punish folks, it's just about getting people back where they belong. I mean, can they even legally fine someone if no actual law was broken? This whole thing feels more like a directive than an official statute passed by Congress.

P.S. I'm definitely no lawyer, so everything above is just me guessing based on what I'm seeing.
Susan Barrett2 Susan Barrett2 Member
16 messages
joined Apr 2020
#1232 ·
driftingfox6 said:Then you have some individual or even the government just cutting you off from your partner indefinitely. And then they act surprised when young people don't want to start families here, especially when so many people lack any sense of financial security. You never know when you might find yourself unemployed.

I’m currently stuck away from my own home—just a ten-minute drive away—because this law won't let me pass through.


I’m twenty-five minutes out from mine—he can’t get to me, and I can't get to him without a permit.
As for work, I’ve been unemployed for twelve months now. And he lost his job because of all this mess. We’ll push through it, but man, we just need them to let us live our lives.
wiredbison272 wiredbison272 Newcomer
9 messages
joined Mar 2020
#1233 ·
Look, I’m no lawyer, and I don't have any fancy connections or special influence anywhere, but I know my own rights, and I make it a point to stick strictly to the code of conduct they’ve laid out for us.
Matthew Jackson2 Matthew Jackson2 Active Member
146 messages
joined Jan 2016
#1234 ·
hollowmason64 said:Because in my mind, I connect the idea that the more people move around, the more they socialize and meet, which naturally extends our ability to tackle this evil.
I agree that this is brutal for people living in tight-knit small towns, and they really ought to find some kind of solution, like a weekly pass to handle necessary errands.

I also don't understand how someone's life or wartime struggles from back in '91 have any bearing on whether today's restrictions are justified—a few people have used that exact logic to claim today's bans are total nonsense.

People were explaining that to those who kept insisting this was unbearable and that people would eventually snap. But it isn't true that it's unbearable; it was just an example of how much people can endure when they absolutely have to. It's all mental. And clearly, we've become quite unreasonable in the process.

Well, everyone has their own perspective. For what it's worth, I haven't left the house all week and I'm happy about it, though I am dreading having to go to the store next week.

You’re drawing the wrong conclusion here. These measures aren't actually designed to stop the epidemic in its tracks—that's not the goal—but rather to slow the momentum just enough so our healthcare system doesn't buckle under the pressure. See, if everyone starts moving around more, the duration might be shorter, sure, but you run the massive risk of overwhelming our hospitals to the point where the whole system collapses into something with a much higher mortality rate.
Lawrence Reed3 Lawrence Reed3 Active Member
141 messages
joined Dec 2021
#1235 ·
Honestly, they really nailed this one—kudos to them! Deciding not to require passes between the cities and towns that used to fall under the Pula municipality is just common sense, I guess. Though, I still don't quite get what their deal is with Medulin... since you can drive from there to Pula without any issues at all because there aren't even any checkpoints...
hollowmason64 hollowmason64 Regular
411 messages
joined Jan 2016
#1236 ·
Nicholas King said:Someone who is right on the edge of breaking isn't going to walk away from that state by listening to someone else's even worse experiences or getting lectured about being "spoiled."

I think I mentioned this somewhere earlier today: any measure that seriously wrecks a huge number of people psychologically does more total harm than good. If—or when—people finally lose their minds and end up committing suicide or hurting someone else, then what? What's the solution then?

BTW, how exactly do you envision "ending this evil"? Are you imagining a day (relatively soon, before the economy completely collapses) where there just won't be any new infections anymore?

So, just because some people are struggling mentally, what are we supposed to do? Tailor every single regulation to every individual person?
These measures were put in place to stop the spread of the virus as much as possible, not to mess with anyone for fun.

When will it end? When we see a decrease in new cases for several days in a row.

Bryan Taylor6 said:It's starting...

I expect other cities to follow suit.

Places 31 miles basically revolve around major cities, forming one social and economic unit. Movement shouldn't be restricted, especially since tens of thousands of people have already been commuting with passes anyway... there's no more significant way to stop the spread.

Started what? You might want to check the news—there haven't been any new infections in Istria over the last two days. And keep in mind, that decision isn't even at the local level; it's coming from the national government.

hollowviper said:What would you guys do if they actually hit you with a fine?

I don't see many options besides paying it. You could go to court and try your luck seeing if some judge takes pity on you, but the odds are slim. Most likely, you'll just end up paying the full amount plus legal fees.

driftingfox6 said:Then you have some individual or even the government just cutting you off from your partner indefinitely. And then they act surprised when young people don't want to start families here, especially when so many people lack any sense of financial security. You never know when you might find yourself unemployed.

I’m currently stuck away from my own home—just a ten-minute drive away—because this law won't let me pass through.

I just don't get why all those highly successful expats suddenly decided to move back home. Was it maybe because they got kicked into high gear by all that supposed "financial stability" abroad?

Matthew Jackson2 said:You’re drawing the wrong conclusion here. These measures aren't actually designed to stop the epidemic in its tracks—that's not the goal—but rather to slow the momentum just enough so our healthcare system doesn't buckle under the pressure. See, if everyone starts moving around more, the duration might be shorter, sure, but you run the massive risk of overwhelming our hospitals to the point where the whole system collapses into something with a much higher mortality rate.

That logic is completely flawed.
Amanda Richardson7 Amanda Richardson7 Newcomer
6 messages
joined Apr 2020
#1237 ·
hollowmason64 said:So, just because some people are struggling mentally, what are we supposed to do? Tailor every single regulation to every individual person?
These measures were put in place to stop the spread of the virus as much as possible, not to mess with anyone for fun.

When will it end? When we see a decrease in new cases for several days in a row.

Started what? You might want to check the news—there haven't been any new infections in Istria over the last two days. And keep in mind, that decision isn't even at the local level; it's coming from the national government.

I don't see many options besides paying it. You could go to court and try your luck seeing if some judge takes pity on you, but the odds are slim. Most likely, you'll just end up paying the full amount plus legal fees.

I just don't get why all those highly successful expats suddenly decided to move back home. Was it maybe because they got kicked into high gear by all that supposed "financial stability" abroad?

That logic is completely flawed.

Just dissected your post, sorry...

What fine specifically? For leaving your primary residence? 🤔
How much is the penalty for an infraction like that?

Not trying to be provocative, I'm genuinely asking what the fine formulation would look like and on what grounds it would even be issued.
Melissa Collins3 Melissa Collins3 Member
36 messages
joined Mar 2020
#1238 ·
Amanda Richardson7 said:Just dissected your post, sorry...

What fine specifically? For leaving your primary residence? 🤔
How much is the penalty for an infraction like that?

Not trying to be provocative, I'm genuinely asking what the fine formulation would look like and on what grounds it would even be issued.

Look, here’s how it plays out: You hop in your car, pull up to a police checkpoint, and realize you don't have the right permit. They tell you you can't pass. From there, it’s entirely up to you how you react, and you'll be held accountable for whatever choice you make and the consequences that follow.
Amanda Richardson7 Amanda Richardson7 Newcomer
6 messages
joined Apr 2020
#1239 ·
Obviously, I’m not going to get into an argument or just stand there waiting for orders.
I'd politely chat with the cops, wish them a nice day, and look for an alternative route to continue my trip...

And what would the penalty be for that? 🤔
Or, what would actually happen if I were driving from Varazdin down to Split, for instance, and got pulled over without a permit?
hollowmason64 hollowmason64 Regular
411 messages
joined Jan 2016
#1240 ·
Amanda Richardson7 said:Just dissected your post, sorry...

What fine specifically? For leaving your primary residence? 🤔
How much is the penalty for an infraction like that?

Not trying to be provocative, I'm genuinely asking what the fine formulation would look like and on what grounds it would even be issued.

Well, they don't really fine you for that; they just won't let you back in. What would they even penalize you for? Unless you start making a scene or causing trouble—but then you’ll probably just end up at the police station anyway.
I took the question more broadly—like, what happens when you get hit with a fine related to an infraction involving the safety measures? For instance, I assume when they raided those cafes that were still operating, they likely made a list of the staff and everyone inside drinking, and now they're all going to get fined.

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