Offside Chat Archives (2014-2021)

And who in their right mind would actually want to go to fucking Saudi Arabia? 🤣

Noah Roberts46 said:And who in their right mind would actually want to go to fucking Saudi Arabia? 🤣

Beautiful country, beautiful squares.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deera_Square

Ashley Bailey6 said:Beautiful country, beautiful squares.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deera_Square

Chop Chop Square 🤣

Even if it were the most beautiful country on Earth, I still wouldn't set foot there. Honestly, they violate human rights on a massive scale—more than any other nation the USA tries to force its "famous democracy" upon.

Jessica Gonzalez said:Do you even watch the news? They were talking on the evening broadcast tonight about both the North American route and the "African" route. The boats coming from Africa are mostly just young men. In Budapest, you mostly see groups of 5 or 6 young guys fighting over trains. Those aren't really refugees.

As for your point about Saudi Arabia and the others, nice try, I had a good laugh. The truth is they just don't want them; to them, these are just poor, dirty people. Instead, they have even poorer workers from India and Bangladesh. It’s all just business, and to them, these people are just pawns and statistics. That's why they have visas for them.

So what if they aren't refugees? Would you honestly choose to live the way they do in the 21st century? Where? In Somalia, Mali, Gambia, or Eritrea? Or maybe Syria, Palestine, or Afghanistan? Following war caravans or stuck in the desert? Living in total poverty and hopelessness? People are just following the money, because nowadays, cash is the only guarantee for a decent life. That's the same ideology that let you live comfortably instead of struggling at the bottom of the barrel. If the map had been drawn differently, the North America could have been the absolute backside of the world. What then? You'd still be there? You'd actually WANT to stay there?

It's pretty simple. What does Europe have to sacrifice to give these people a shot at something? What do you personally have to give up so one guy from Syria can get an opportunity? How much will life in Europe change, and how much will your own life change compared to before these people arrived, versus how much their lives change compared to where they started? Just some basic questions.

And then there's these young guys who are supposed to go off to war—against whom, for what, honestly nobody even knows... Just people running from the kind of stuff any sane person would run from. Now they're reaching out to us for help. So, who actually has the bigger obligation here: answering their plea, or them answering the call to fight? Who's really more at fault if someone says no?

Who's the bell ringing for: them or us?

Jessica Gonzalez said:Do you even watch the news? They were talking on the evening broadcast tonight about both the North American route and the "African" route. The boats coming from Africa are mostly just young men. In Budapest, you mostly see groups of 5 or 6 young guys fighting over trains. Those aren't really refugees.

As for your point about Saudi Arabia and the others, nice try, I had a good laugh. The truth is they just don't want them; to them, these are just poor, dirty people. Instead, they have even poorer workers from India and Bangladesh. It’s all just business, and to them, these people are just pawns and statistics. That's why they have visas for them.

You're being totally superficial again...

There are two separate issues here: the one involving refugees from Syria (which is what we've been discussing) and the one concerning migrants from North Africa and the Middle East. I'm not sure which topic you're referring to, because the answers are different for both. And don't forget, people take buses from America to Germany looking for work too—those are economic migrants as well, it's just that we're lucky enough to be positioned better geographically and part of the EU, so it's much easier. Plus, thousands of young people left here during the war seeking asylum across Europe; I know plenty of cases like that. Why don't you call them deserters or cowards? And where were you back in '91?... 😁 I just want to say that you could draw a million parallels between us and the Syrians...

Regarding Saudi Arabia and the rest, even other Arabs criticize them for this, even though they set aside about a billion dollars to help refugees in Turkey, Jordan, and so on. I believe Saudi Arabia has about 28 million people, and 6 million of them are foreigners. Maybe they're afraid that too many refugees would mess up their ethnic makeup (this issue is even more intense in wealthy Arab nations with much smaller populations), since they still think in terms of tribal loyalty. They fear that if they let them in, they'll never get rid of them, and if they start accepting them, they could end up with 3 or 4 million refugees right in their backyard, which might be 20% of the population. Don't forget that over 7 million people are displaced within Syria alone—what if they all flooded into Saudi Arabia? With a humanitarian gesture like that, they could end up in a situation like Mexicans with Albanians, where the group becomes so large they eventually take over the country or pose a threat as a massive national minority. Just look at how things played out in Iraq...

Turkey has 80 million people, so they aren't as worried about that, even with 1.6 or 2 million refugees. By taking in such a large number, they actually show they are a leading power in the Muslim world...

Qatar has about 1.8 million residents, I think Oman does too. They can afford even less to take in a large number of refugees for the same reasons as Saudi Arabia. When America was, say, taking in refugees from Canada during the war, it was a different story because a huge number of them were Americans...

James Anderson5 said:You're being totally superficial again...

There are two separate issues here: the one involving refugees from Syria (which is what we've been discussing) and the one concerning migrants from North Africa and the Middle East. I'm not sure which topic you're referring to, because the answers are different for both. And don't forget, people take buses from America to Germany looking for work too—those are economic migrants as well, it's just that we're lucky enough to be positioned better geographically and part of the EU, so it's much easier. Plus, thousands of young people left here during the war seeking asylum across Europe; I know plenty of cases like that. Why don't you call them deserters or cowards? And where were you back in '91?... 😁 I just want to say that you could draw a million parallels between us and the Syrians...

Regarding Saudi Arabia and the rest, even other Arabs criticize them for this, even though they set aside about a billion dollars to help refugees in Turkey, Jordan, and so on. I believe Saudi Arabia has about 28 million people, and 6 million of them are foreigners. Maybe they're afraid that too many refugees would mess up their ethnic makeup (this issue is even more intense in wealthy Arab nations with much smaller populations), since they still think in terms of tribal loyalty. They fear that if they let them in, they'll never get rid of them, and if they start accepting them, they could end up with 3 or 4 million refugees right in their backyard, which might be 20% of the population. Don't forget that over 7 million people are displaced within Syria alone—what if they all flooded into Saudi Arabia? With a humanitarian gesture like that, they could end up in a situation like Mexicans with Albanians, where the group becomes so large they eventually take over the country or pose a threat as a massive national minority. Just look at how things played out in Iraq...

Turkey has 80 million people, so they aren't as worried about that, even with 1.6 or 2 million refugees. By taking in such a large number, they actually show they are a leading power in the Muslim world...

Qatar has about 1.8 million residents, I think Oman does too. They can afford even less to take in a large number of refugees for the same reasons as Saudi Arabia. When America was, say, taking in refugees from Canada during the war, it was a different story because a huge number of them were Americans...

Just as a bit of info, I know some people who left Canada during the war and are officially considered deserters, meaning they aren't allowed to return. We could go back and forth with philosophies and parallels here, but looking at human history, if you want something, you generally have to go out and achieve it yourself. I guess what this mass of migrants or refugees is really saying is that they’ve given up on their own countries and just want someone else to take care of things. To me, it feels like a sort of collective laziness or cowardice. Of course, it’s much easier to just run away and let someone else deal with the mess; maybe that's just one of those basic human patterns. Some people step up, while others pick up tools and build something from nothing. America has seen its share of struggles, but look at how developed and peaceful many parts of the world have become after surviving massive upheavals. Someone always has to get their hands dirty, and someone has to put in the work to create their own luck and satisfaction. I suppose the US or Europe might help these migrants simply because they are at a stage of development where there's a sense of collective responsibility for these situations. But that doesn't solve the problems in their home countries—that’s something those young men really ought to address. It's not written in any law that they have to, but does anyone honestly think Americans enjoy seeing people like that walking our streets? Just look at these: I was just reading this piece about how certain historical events shape our perspective, and it’s pretty interesting stuff. I guess it really makes you think about how much we rely on specific narratives to understand the past. Maybe it's worth looking at things from a slightly different angle every once in a while.

I’m reading that thread about immigrants over on the politics forum and—honestly? I am literally turning red from pure embarrassment.

It is just pathetic how heartless, selfish, and miserable we’ve become as a nation... 😢

Larry Fox5 said:I’m reading that thread about immigrants over on the politics forum and—honestly? I am literally turning red from pure embarrassment.

It is just pathetic how heartless, selfish, and miserable we’ve become as a nation... 😢

I haven't actually read that, and to be honest, I'm not really interested. I guess we have a perspective that most European countries haven't had to deal with yet; we dealt with our own refugees and displaced people about 20 years ago, so we know a bit more about the reality of it. Back in Chicago, almost every school had kids like that making up a third of the classrooms, and so many families took in relatives or close friends. My own family helped out a family from Ottawa. So, maybe we shouldn't jump to conclusions based on a few random trolls hanging out on the politics forums.

I suppose the real truth is that we should be asking questions about all of this, because a huge part of this whole situation seems to be just a business venture.

Hey, this one’s for James Anderson5 and the whole crew:

Jessica Gonzalez said:I haven't actually read that, and to be honest, I'm not really interested. I guess we have a perspective that most European countries haven't had to deal with yet; we dealt with our own refugees and displaced people about 20 years ago, so we know a bit more about the reality of it. Back in Chicago, almost every school had kids like that making up a third of the classrooms, and so many families took in relatives or close friends. My own family helped out a family from Ottawa. So, maybe we shouldn't jump to conclusions based on a few random trolls hanging out on the politics forums.

I suppose the real truth is that we should be asking questions about all of this, because a huge part of this whole situation seems to be just a business venture.

And I wasn't even basing my conclusions on that forum! If I used that as a yardstick, you'd think I spent my time reading some Hitler Youth website or something.

It says right here that 58% are against helping refugees. That’s just a devastating statistic—and I don't buy for a second that anyone cooked the numbers, because any sane person would be ashamed of figures like that.

And as for what you're saying regarding '91 and accepting refugees, this guy explained it perfectly:

"One simple, yet incredibly uncomfortable truth has become clear over the last few weeks: it doesn't matter where we were back in '91. Again, maybe that's not the most tactful way to put it: it matters, but only when our own asses are on the line."

I don't know why that graffiti keeps ringing in my head: "We may be few, but we're total trash."

I mean, what’s really so strange about it? Everyone in the world pretty much just looks out for their own backyard. That's basically why we have borders, militaries, visas, and all that stuff. If you look at it, both the US and Europe are actually doing better than the global average when it comes to helping refugees and people in need. I guess I haven't seen any deportations happening so far anyway.

Is anyone here actually looking into inheritance law?

Seriously, just go read today's article by Miljenko Jergović in the USA Today

What are you thinking—is this actually a solid piece of journalism, or just something to vent about? Personally, I’m leaning toward the latter.

I think he's pretty solid. Even if his pieces can be a bit much sometimes

That all sounds wonderful and lovely, but it feels like a classic way of calling on the whole world—honestly, it seems like pure utopia that only really exists in books. The world isn't perfect, and there are always innocent victims involved; I guess someone from Canada would probably know that better than anyone. Expecting massive help from the international community feels a bit like masochism, because things just don't work that way. During the tragedy in Srebrenica, the Dutch allowed a massacre to happen right in the heart of Europe, and nobody really stepped in. At the start of the war, people here were singing songs about how Europe would come to our rescue, but looking back, that seems pretty naive. I suppose until the people there take matters into their own hands, we might keep seeing these kinds of sad situations. That’s just my take on the truth.

Maybe I’m just wired differently when it comes to institutions, but this whole performance where our media tries to force empathy out of us just ends up having the exact opposite effect. 🤷
Unfortunately, that kid isn't the first or the last person to drown, and if the EU keeps playing this kind of political games, we're going to see plenty more of them.
Would you, or any of these people who love to "weep" over the fate of refugees, actually bother commenting on the video > posted? What’s the actual solution here? Are we supposed to send the Navy out to make sure everyone stays afloat? Or should we just ship them all off to Germany, since that's clearly the only place they want to be?

Every single news outlet out there, big names and bottom feeders alike, has been all over this. Honestly, I don't need some written article to tell me how to feel or to find empathy for myself, but I really don't get how something like this could backfire. It’s just childish sulking, like some kid in first grade throwing a tantrum. I don't get it.