Offside Chat Archives (2014-2021)

Honestly, I’m curious how you all would react if something like this hit home. I bet you'd be all over the forums, talking trash about how people are idiots for wanting a better life, or how it's just "wrong" to leave places like "their" Syria or whatever. Bullshit.

Noah Carter24 said:Man, what a total troll you are! There's just no way that's possible. 🤦

Honestly, I think the real troll here is the one claiming that people fleeing war zones toward developed nations aren't actually refugees.
And that’s coming from someone whose own people were in the exact same boat just over 20 years ago!

mellowotter36 said:Go ahead, rush down to the train station in Budapest and tell us exactly how many women and children show up for every one man.

And why does that matter to you specifically?

frozencobra50 said:I have much better things to do than deal with this... ☕

No joke, more wars are coming.

ambertinker41 said:The thing is, most of those people aren't even from Syria, if you ask me.

But where *are* they from then? Those currently using this North American route usually are. I'm not even talking about the Africans crossing the Mediterranean by boat right now.

All jokes aside... anyone actually using their brain is fully aware that the situation in Syria right now is an absolute catastrophe. But when you take a realistic look at the facts, you realize a massive group of Syrians are just leveraging this chaos to worm their way into countries that half of Europe dreams of living in. I feel for people, truly, but even I don't know what I'd do if I were in Angela Merkel's shoes. Would I take in 800,000 of them? Or just take 100,000 and tell the rest to get lost... I personally know a girl—really sweet kid—who is an economic migrant from Syria. Her father studied medicine in Chicago, her mother is from Mostar, and they lived in Syria until things started "boiling over." After that, they fled to Sweden and stayed there for a while (both of them work; the dad is a doctor, the mom is a teacher). Then, Sweden sends them to Canada because they can easily get citizenship there, which obviously doesn't sit well with them. People are going to such extremes that they’ve even divorced; three minors are left staying with their father in Sweden because, after the divorce, he doesn't have the right to Canadian citizenship, while she travels to Mostar with her brother and mother. That's how they'll live until the old man finally gets Swedish citizenship, and then they'll reunite. If they were genuine war refugees, they'd be happy to settle in Canada without all this hassle...

Michelle Palmer6 said:Honestly, I think the real troll here is the one claiming that people fleeing war zones toward developed nations aren't actually refugees.
And that’s coming from someone whose own people were in the exact same boat just over 20 years ago!

And why does that matter to you specifically?

No joke, more wars are coming.

But where *are* they from then? Those currently using this North American route usually are. I'm not even talking about the Africans crossing the Mediterranean by boat right now.

You basically answered your own question—they aren't refugees, they're just economic migrants.

Michelle Palmer6 said:Honestly, I think the real troll here is the one claiming that people fleeing war zones toward developed nations aren't actually refugees.
And that’s coming from someone whose own people were in the exact same boat just over 20 years ago!

And why does that matter to you specifically?

No joke, more wars are coming.

But where *are* they from then? Those currently using this North American route usually are. I'm not even talking about the Africans crossing the Mediterranean by boat right now.

My plan is to get out of the North America as fast as possible, just like the Syrians, and head to some wealthy, developed nation. I just hope I can make my escape before the fighting starts...

I honestly thought the crowd here was at least a little more sane. Up until now, things actually seemed to make sense...

@mellowotter36 ..... it’s not like Americans and people from Canada didn't head over to Germany during the war. And even if they weren't officially looking for asylum, they were definitely finding safe havens to escape the fighting.

So what's the actual difference between taking in an American fleeing Derventa or a Syrian fleeing Aleppo? 😕

Besides, I grew up next door to a Syrian family who lived in America for about ten years while that 16-year war in Lebanon was going on. Once the war finally ended, they just went back home.

frozencobra50 said:My plan is to get out of the North America as fast as possible, just like the Syrians, and head to some wealthy, developed nation. I just hope I can make my escape before the fighting starts...

Wait, you aren't even growing helichrysum? 🍿

So, you were replying to the post where frozencobra50 claims they’re just economic migrants. But if we're talking about refugees, isn't it a bit cold-hearted to just leave your wife and kids behind in a war zone?

frozencobra50 said:All jokes aside... anyone actually using their brain is fully aware that the situation in Syria right now is an absolute catastrophe. But when you take a realistic look at the facts, you realize a massive group of Syrians are just leveraging this chaos to worm their way into countries that half of Europe dreams of living in. I feel for people, truly, but even I don't know what I'd do if I were in Angela Merkel's shoes. Would I take in 800,000 of them? Or just take 100,000 and tell the rest to get lost... I personally know a girl—really sweet kid—who is an economic migrant from Syria. Her father studied medicine in Chicago, her mother is from Mostar, and they lived in Syria until things started "boiling over." After that, they fled to Sweden and stayed there for a while (both of them work; the dad is a doctor, the mom is a teacher). Then, Sweden sends them to Canada because they can easily get citizenship there, which obviously doesn't sit well with them. People are going to such extremes that they’ve even divorced; three minors are left staying with their father in Sweden because, after the divorce, he doesn't have the right to Canadian citizenship, while she travels to Mostar with her brother and mother. That's how they'll live until the old man finally gets Swedish citizenship, and then they'll reunite. If they were genuine war refugees, they'd be happy to settle in Canada without all this hassle...

They should just send them back to Syria. Who gives a damn?

mellowotter36 said:So, you were replying to the post where frozencobra50 claims they’re just economic migrants. But if we're talking about refugees, isn't it a bit cold-hearted to just leave your wife and kids behind in a war zone?

You completely missed my point. His wife and kids are in Canada. He's sitting in Sweden waiting for his citizenship...

Walter Grant5 said:This is what happened in Turkey. Syria-Turkey border. I'm talking about actual refugees here. Not the guys heading to Germany because the construction jobs pay better.

PS: Hope people like you end up in my house.

Doesn't change my point.

I’m not quite following your point—are you suggesting we should only focus our commentary on Syrian refugees entering Turkey? Why is this one specific child being held up as such a special case? Was he really the first kid to drown on the route from Syria to Turkey? Based on Jergović’s writing, they found him on a beach in Bodrum. I don't know much about refugee routes, but I imagine there are plenty of other nearby beaches people would flee toward to escape a war... or maybe the goal was actually Greece, and they figured they’d just get stuck in some camp in Turkey if they stayed?
Honestly, I find it exhausting when people try to pull at the heartstrings like this; seeing images of people drowning in the Mediterranean is horrific enough without being prompted by emotional appeals. I don't need the photos of kids to feel the weight of it.
The whole refugee crisis needs to be tackled at its source; letting people slip through the cracks like this and essentially incentivizing human smuggling is just going to lead to more people drowning in the water.

Noah Carter24 said:Wait, you aren't even growing helichrysum? 🍿

I don't own any land... 😢

Dennis Evans6 said:I’m not quite following your point—are you suggesting we should only focus our commentary on Syrian refugees entering Turkey? Why is this one specific child being held up as such a special case? Was he really the first kid to drown on the route from Syria to Turkey? Based on Jergović’s writing, they found him on a beach in Bodrum. I don't know much about refugee routes, but I imagine there are plenty of other nearby beaches people would flee toward to escape a war... or maybe the goal was actually Greece, and they figured they’d just get stuck in some camp in Turkey if they stayed?
Honestly, I find it exhausting when people try to pull at the heartstrings like this; seeing images of people drowning in the Mediterranean is horrific enough without being prompted by emotional appeals. I don't need the photos of kids to feel the weight of it.
The whole refugee crisis needs to be tackled at its source; letting people slip through the cracks like this and essentially incentivizing human smuggling is just going to lead to more people drowning in the water.

Let me clear this up. A kid under ten who drowned and was found face-down in the sand isn't an "economic migrant." The point is fucking crystal clear.

Was he the first child to drown? No. That’s a great reason to just close our eyes and look away, right?

He's just a tragic, extreme example. It’s like if some soccer player collapses on the pitch—he's not the first person to die from those symptoms, but you still feel bad. He’s an example. It’s not like that little kid is worth more than any other kid, or more than you or me. He's a case study. It would be the same if you had a heart attack right now and someone, after I posted how sorry I am and mentioned I was talking to you, some idiot comes along and says, "Well, you aren't the first guy to have a heart attack." Like, fuck off. Little kids shouldn't be found face-down in the sand because of "economic migration." Are you guys for real?

If someone told you, after God forbid you found your own son or daughter like that, that they weren't the first or last, you'd lose your mind.

frozencobra50 said:All jokes aside... anyone actually using their brain is fully aware that the situation in Syria right now is an absolute catastrophe. But when you take a realistic look at the facts, you realize a massive group of Syrians are just leveraging this chaos to worm their way into countries that half of Europe dreams of living in. I feel for people, truly, but even I don't know what I'd do if I were in Angela Merkel's shoes. Would I take in 800,000 of them? Or just take 100,000 and tell the rest to get lost... I personally know a girl—really sweet kid—who is an economic migrant from Syria. Her father studied medicine in Chicago, her mother is from Mostar, and they lived in Syria until things started "boiling over." After that, they fled to Sweden and stayed there for a while (both of them work; the dad is a doctor, the mom is a teacher). Then, Sweden sends them to Canada because they can easily get citizenship there, which obviously doesn't sit well with them. People are going to such extremes that they’ve even divorced; three minors are left staying with their father in Sweden because, after the divorce, he doesn't have the right to Canadian citizenship, while she travels to Mostar with her brother and mother. That's how they'll live until the old man finally gets Swedish citizenship, and then they'll reunite. If they were genuine war refugees, they'd be happy to settle in Canada without all this hassle...

So? You for or against them chasing a better life?

Noah Carter24 said:You basically answered your own question—they aren't refugees, they're just economic migrants.

So? You actually rooting for them to find a better life or what?

Walter Grant5 said:Dennis Evans6, reacting to Noah Carter24's video. You know how it goes? We aren't even talking about the same thing. This is about refugees fleeing a war, not migrants. The analogy is dead.

The video is fine, you're just mixing up your facts. If imperialist powers keep pulling this kind of crap overseas... things won't end well. Everyone is going to want to make their way to Europe. That's why we need to fix things over there first and finally establish some actual peace. But obviously, that doesn't suit the interests of the major global players at all.

Anyone here actually delusional enough to think just because they happened to be born in some random spot deserves a decent life more than some guy from Syria or Gambia? Any of you small, ugly, spoiled brats around here? Just incredibly arrogant, twisted, and dim?

frozencobra50 said:All jokes aside... anyone actually using their brain is fully aware that the situation in Syria right now is an absolute catastrophe. But when you take a realistic look at the facts, you realize a massive group of Syrians are just leveraging this chaos to worm their way into countries that half of Europe dreams of living in. I feel for people, truly, but even I don't know what I'd do if I were in Angela Merkel's shoes. Would I take in 800,000 of them? Or just take 100,000 and tell the rest to get lost... I personally know a girl—really sweet kid—who is an economic migrant from Syria. Her father studied medicine in Chicago, her mother is from Mostar, and they lived in Syria until things started "boiling over." After that, they fled to Sweden and stayed there for a while (both of them work; the dad is a doctor, the mom is a teacher). Then, Sweden sends them to Canada because they can easily get citizenship there, which obviously doesn't sit well with them. People are going to such extremes that they’ve even divorced; three minors are left staying with their father in Sweden because, after the divorce, he doesn't have the right to Canadian citizenship, while she travels to Mostar with her brother and mother. That's how they'll live until the old man finally gets Swedish citizenship, and then they'll reunite. If they were genuine war refugees, they'd be happy to settle in Canada without all this hassle...

Did they stay in refugee camps first and trek into Europe on foot or in overcrowded vehicles with nothing but a single suitcase, being processed by police and military, stuck in camps waiting for humanitarian aid, all while knowing there's a very real chance they or someone in their family might not even make it to Europe alive?

Noah Carter24 said:You basically answered your own question—they aren't refugees, they're just economic migrants.

No, I didn't. Refugees are people looking for any way possible to quickly resume a decent life. The idea that "refugees" only counts those sitting in camps in neighboring countries, putting their lives on hold while waiting for things to settle down, is just a flaw in your definition.

Matthew Anderson4 said:Anyone here actually delusional enough to think just because they happened to be born in some random spot deserves a decent life more than some guy from Syria or Gambia? Any of you small, ugly, spoiled brats around here? Just incredibly arrogant, twisted, and dim?

Way to go, Matthew Anderson4. 🙏

Matthew Anderson4 said:So? You actually rooting for them to find a better life or what?

I find it hard to believe anyone would have an issue with that, especially when we're talking about people fleeing the devastation of war.

The real debate lately seems to center on how this—this potentially inevitable, massive, and permanent influx of people with fundamentally different cultures and worldviews—will impact the lives and opportunities of those in the host nations, particularly when reading accounts suggesting there's little interest in assimilation.

Now, I’m not an expert enough to dive into a deep sociological analysis here, but from what I can gather, Muslim immigrants across Europe face significant integration hurdles at best. Given that, is it really such a scandal that people feel uneasy about these migrations occurring on the large scale we might be seeing on the horizon? 🤷 And that's not even touching upon the security concerns regarding undocumented individuals crossing borders en masse.

Ultimately, the solution should be for the US and the rest of the world to stabilize these regions so people can live normally in their own homelands, rather than simply relocating an entire population from one continent to another.