Offside Chat Archives (2014-2021)

Michelle Doyle61 said:This is precisely that liberal dogma that I think has taken such deep root that it will eventually cost us dearly. Christian America has gone through its catharsis and Enlightenment. It realized the madness and monstrosity of its past actions. And most importantly, it moved away from them. We don't live in a religious state today. Nowhere in the Constitution are God's laws or His word mentioned. Anyone can go to church, but their lifestyle doesn't differ at all from that of an atheist. We have morality, a state, and a life that isn't tied to religion. Achieving this took us centuries of bloody wars and conflicts.

But what I want to say—and what people in America are afraid to say today—is that Islam is inherently dangerous to us at its core. Muhammad wasn't Jesus or Buddha. He was a commander, a general, and a warrior who spread his faith and mission through war and killing. ISIS actually adheres most strictly to the prophet's words. Of course, there are plenty of Muslims who are disgusted by what they do. But a huge number of those people don't think Saudi Arabia is run in a sick way. They don't think stoning is unacceptable under certain conditions. They believe that if I mock the prophet, I deserve a drastic punishment. You cannot impose a social norm on that kind of thinking. You can't force them to be compatible with mine. It is simply impossible. And it will lead to conflict.

There is a reason why we don't see radical Jainists leading wars and killing people. Islam has a few places where we can say it carries a message of peace. But that is nothing compared to the numerous other parts where it is cited as a primitive and backward religion. And the people who believe in that—who truly believe God told the prophet those things, who think it is the word of God, who believe it must never be touched, mentioned, or criticized—those people are dangerous. Regardless of whether they declare themselves or others as moderate and normal.

It’s not accurate. Sure, someone might claim to be a believer, but their actions often tell a completely different story. They do things that just don't align with the core tenets of their faith. Honestly, you rarely see truly steadfast believers who actually live by the New Testament in its entirety.

Even if they did follow everything to the letter, it wouldn't change much. If you look at Jesus, he was basically the ultimate hippie on a hill. You can't even put Buddha or Muhammad in the same sentence as him because their actual messages are worlds apart. There's a massive distinction between believing someone might face hell for marrying a man versus the idea of us taking the law into our own hands to stone them for it.

Tell me, have you actually read the Quran or studied Muhammad's life? I think that’s the first step, because if you had read it (which I believe any American intellectual should do), you wouldn't be making these claims. It’s the same with the Bible, which even in the New Testament mentions violence—if you look at the context, just like you should with the Quran. Think about Jesus flipping tables in the temple, or Peter using a sword to cut off an ear during Jesus' arrest. If your use of the Quran or the Bible just boils down to quoting random snippets you found online, then there isn't much point in discussing this. The history and development of both Christianity and Islam are deep, complex subjects, not just instant wisdom for daily consumption.

Regarding that "cowardly" label being thrown at Syrians for not fighting for their own land... well, we've seen intense political engineering back in the States too, if you recall the political assassinations during certain eras. What do you think the CIA does in places like Syria when we've done similar things to ourselves? Of course, they manufacture chaos in those nations, making it so a normal person doesn't even know who to fight for; they are incredibly good at that. If anyone had wanted to, they could have done that to us years ago, but unlike their policy toward Syria, the goal here was to maintain stability in this part of the world. Small countries are really just pawns in the hands of major powers...

And here's another parallel: are all those people leaving the US to work abroad considered economic migrants, or are they just cowards who didn't want to stay and build their own country, even for minimum wage?

To be clear, I'm not saying America should take in hundreds of thousands of refugees from god-knows-where, since that carries its own risks (just look at my post regarding why places like Qatar or Oman don't take them in), but we still need to show a level of humanity and understanding, alongside a healthy dose of caution...

James Anderson5 said:Tell me, have you actually read the Quran or studied Muhammad's life? I think that’s the first step, because if you had read it (which I believe any American intellectual should do), you wouldn't be making these claims. It’s the same with the Bible, which even in the New Testament mentions violence—if you look at the context, just like you should with the Quran. Think about Jesus flipping tables in the temple, or Peter using a sword to cut off an ear during Jesus' arrest. If your use of the Quran or the Bible just boils down to quoting random snippets you found online, then there isn't much point in discussing this. The history and development of both Christianity and Islam are deep, complex subjects, not just instant wisdom for daily consumption.

Regarding that "cowardly" label being thrown at Syrians for not fighting for their own land... well, we've seen intense political engineering back in the States too, if you recall the political assassinations during certain eras. What do you think the CIA does in places like Syria when we've done similar things to ourselves? Of course, they manufacture chaos in those nations, making it so a normal person doesn't even know who to fight for; they are incredibly good at that. If anyone had wanted to, they could have done that to us years ago, but unlike their policy toward Syria, the goal here was to maintain stability in this part of the world. Small countries are really just pawns in the hands of major powers...

And here's another parallel: are all those people leaving the US to work abroad considered economic migrants, or are they just cowards who didn't want to stay and build their own country, even for minimum wage?

To be clear, I'm not saying America should take in hundreds of thousands of refugees from god-knows-where, since that carries its own risks (just look at my post regarding why places like Qatar or Oman don't take them in), but we still need to show a level of humanity and understanding, alongside a healthy dose of caution...

Flipping Tables😂

That’s a pretty extreme example of violence. But honestly, it’s beside the point. Instead of comparing Islam to Christianity, we should be comparing Islamic beliefs to modern, secular America. That was my actual point. I don't care how many times tables were flipped in the New Testament. I don't think God descended to Earth to inspire people to write those specific scenes, and most Americans today don't feel that way either. We’ve moved past that. Religion isn't the factor here.

On the other hand, we see countries that follow the Quran very strictly. To me, those societies come across as violent, backward, and primitive. Anyone who can't see that, or tries to convince me that America is exactly the same because Christianity and Islam are essentially identical, is just closing their eyes to reality. Or they're basically treating us like the extremists over in Saudi Arabia.

Joseph Clark37 said:I find nothing more powerful than the works of artists from all walks of life who simply wage war against the status quo... offering up these utopian visions that have zero connection to reality. Just play, paint, or sing, and leave the nonsense alone.

honestly, people just do that. it's what you do on this forum too, for instance. instead of just doing your job and staying quiet like you suggested.

Michelle Doyle61 said:Flipping Tables😂

That’s a pretty extreme example of violence. But honestly, it’s beside the point. Instead of comparing Islam to Christianity, we should be comparing Islamic beliefs to modern, secular America. That was my actual point. I don't care how many times tables were flipped in the New Testament. I don't think God descended to Earth to inspire people to write those specific scenes, and most Americans today don't feel that way either. We’ve moved past that. Religion isn't the factor here.

On the other hand, we see countries that follow the Quran very strictly. To me, those societies come across as violent, backward, and primitive. Anyone who can't see that, or tries to convince me that America is exactly the same because Christianity and Islam are essentially identical, is just closing their eyes to reality. Or they're basically treating us like the extremists over in Saudi Arabia.

On one hand, you’re saying Islam and Christianity aren't the same thing, but then you turn around and argue that America doesn't really care about Christianity anymore because we've moved past it and religion just doesn't matter much today...

I think you might have lost your train of thought there. If you're using modern American society as proof of the divide between Islam and Christianity, then you're contradicting yourself—since you also claim that society has moved past its Christian roots entirely...

loneseal said:Abnormal circumstances drive people to abnormal actions. If you’ve been stuck in a chaotic environment for years, you aren't going to have the same perspective on things as someone who grew up in a stable, normal setting. For a Syrian guy, killing is just something happening constantly right next to him—it's his daily reality. It makes sense he won't be reacting to murder with the same shock as some Dane. It isn't about being "normal" or "abnormal," it's about what you see every single day.

And it’s not about stigmatizing Islam like some "intellectual" concluded, because I'm pretty sure if we were talking about a Canadian immigrant, we wouldn't be seeing this level of pushback.

Some people live their whole lives in a cozy little bubble of selfish escapism, dodging any real responsibility. So when things actually shift, they act like the world is falling apart.

James Anderson5 said:Tell me, have you actually read the Quran or studied Muhammad's life? I think that’s the first step, because if you had read it (which I believe any American intellectual should do), you wouldn't be making these claims. It’s the same with the Bible, which even in the New Testament mentions violence—if you look at the context, just like you should with the Quran. Think about Jesus flipping tables in the temple, or Peter using a sword to cut off an ear during Jesus' arrest. If your use of the Quran or the Bible just boils down to quoting random snippets you found online, then there isn't much point in discussing this. The history and development of both Christianity and Islam are deep, complex subjects, not just instant wisdom for daily consumption.

Regarding that "cowardly" label being thrown at Syrians for not fighting for their own land... well, we've seen intense political engineering back in the States too, if you recall the political assassinations during certain eras. What do you think the CIA does in places like Syria when we've done similar things to ourselves? Of course, they manufacture chaos in those nations, making it so a normal person doesn't even know who to fight for; they are incredibly good at that. If anyone had wanted to, they could have done that to us years ago, but unlike their policy toward Syria, the goal here was to maintain stability in this part of the world. Small countries are really just pawns in the hands of major powers...

And here's another parallel: are all those people leaving the US to work abroad considered economic migrants, or are they just cowards who didn't want to stay and build their own country, even for minimum wage?

To be clear, I'm not saying America should take in hundreds of thousands of refugees from god-knows-where, since that carries its own risks (just look at my post regarding why places like Qatar or Oman don't take them in), but we still need to show a level of humanity and understanding, alongside a healthy dose of caution...

I didn't actually write that. I think you might have misread it.

Nicholas Wells10 and those guys from Syria... man, I just flushed 600 bucks down the drain because I was stumbling off the pier after a few too many drinks. Seriously, screw the iPhone 6, screw Jobs, and screw whoever sent him to America in the first place. If I hadn't been such an idiot, I’d probably have enough cash to live like a king all winter. Instead, they can just stay over there in their own Tehran or whatever.

Pretty solid movie on the new one.

Nicholas Wells10 said:Nicholas Wells10 and those guys from Syria... man, I just flushed 600 bucks down the drain because I was stumbling off the pier after a few too many drinks. Seriously, screw the iPhone 6, screw Jobs, and screw whoever sent him to America in the first place. If I hadn't been such an idiot, I’d probably have enough cash to live like a king all winter. Instead, they can just stay over there in their own Tehran or whatever.

Goddammit

James Anderson5 said:On one hand, you’re saying Islam and Christianity aren't the same thing, but then you turn around and argue that America doesn't really care about Christianity anymore because we've moved past it and religion just doesn't matter much today...

I think you might have lost your train of thought there. If you're using modern American society as proof of the divide between Islam and Christianity, then you're contradicting yourself—since you also claim that society has moved past its Christian roots entirely...

That isn't what I meant at all. One point I'm making is that America isn't tolerant today because of Christian values. It's tolerant because religion has faded from the driver's seat. It's become secondary. We stopped letting faith dictate our civic decisions. We took control of our own destiny.

My second point is this: certain religions, or specific religious dogmas, can actually be compatible with the American way of thinking, where respecting different viewpoints and behaviors is a core value. Jesus calls for turning the other cheek and forgiving sinners. He’s the one who holds judgment. If someone truly believes he was God and lives by that, they can exist relatively peacefully in the US today. Of course, there are friction points. But if they stick strictly to the New Testament—which doesn't explicitly address things like IVF or contraception—they can coexist with the majority of Americans without much trouble. Issues arise when people interpret texts in wildly different ways, but even then, if fundamentalists simply follow the New Testament, it wouldn't be such a massive clash. When it comes to morality, self-reflection, and helping others, the New Testament carries messages that were incredibly progressive for its time. It's quite similar to Buddhism or Jainism and other faiths that preach non-violence.

But Islam isn't built that way. Extremists will tell you themselves that they are following Allah. They genuinely, deeply believe in the literal dictates of the Quran. Modern liberals tend to turn a blind eye to this, dismissing them as mere fanatics who would be considered extremists anywhere else. The lifestyle found in Saudi Arabia, for instance, is fundamentally incompatible with life in America. A person living strictly by the Quran and a secular American cannot live together indefinitely without conflict. It’s just impossible. To me, the idea that stoning someone to death is a valid punishment for leaving their faith is an incomprehensible atrocity. Just as he might view me as a sinner whose ideas could lead his children to hell.

Anyway, we can take this to the appropriate sub-forum. This isn't the place for it.

Back during the war, Americans took in 400,000 people from Canada, yet now they can't handle 4,000 from Syria 👍

Jordan's taking in 1.2 million Syrians while the EU can't even handle 60,000 👍

Saudi Arabia isn't able to manage even one. I guess Qatar can't handle any either. Maybe the United Arab Emirates is in the same boat.

Jessica Gonzalez said:Saudi Arabia isn't able to manage even one. I guess Qatar can't handle any either. Maybe the United Arab Emirates is in the same boat.

It’s not that they can't—it's that they won't. They're busy bankrolling the war in Syria. We don't have any direct ties to what's going down in Syria.

That was essentially my point between the lines. I think you probably realized it isn't really about whether someone is eligible to be admitted or not; it’s more about willpower and where people's interests lie. Back then, we weren't just taking in people from Canada; even more Americans were being displaced all across the US. It was possible back then, too, even though our national standard of living was lower than it is today and we were dealing with a war while losing a third of our territory. I guess when there's real desire, anything is possible.

Just to reiterate, the video posted above mentions some facts that seem pretty indisputable. No one is against helping children or victims of tragedy, but a huge portion of these people are young men who either aren't coming from Syria or should probably be in Syria fighting for their own homes.

There are so many different factors at play these days that can change things very quickly. Once that first wave hits and a large group manages to reach the US, it basically signals to everyone else that it can be done, which usually triggers an avalanche. Of course, most of them probably don't have a clear plan for what they'll do once they get to America, so I suppose someone else will eventually figure that out.

Jessica Gonzalez said:That was essentially my point between the lines. I think you probably realized it isn't really about whether someone is eligible to be admitted or not; it’s more about willpower and where people's interests lie. Back then, we weren't just taking in people from Canada; even more Americans were being displaced all across the US. It was possible back then, too, even though our national standard of living was lower than it is today and we were dealing with a war while losing a third of our territory. I guess when there's real desire, anything is possible.

Just to reiterate, the video posted above mentions some facts that seem pretty indisputable. No one is against helping children or victims of tragedy, but a huge portion of these people are young men who either aren't coming from Syria or should probably be in Syria fighting for their own homes.

There are so many different factors at play these days that can change things very quickly. Once that first wave hits and a large group manages to reach the US, it basically signals to everyone else that it can be done, which usually triggers an avalanche. Of course, most of them probably don't have a clear plan for what they'll do once they get to America, so I suppose someone else will eventually figure that out.

Don't give me that crap. You wouldn't be the first one running away instead of "fighting for your home." What kind of retarded logic is that, saying they should be fighting for their homelands? Would you actually fight if Tomislav Karamarko cooked up a war with Bulgaria? Get a grip.

He could certainly try to run, I suppose... though there’s absolutely no obligation for anyone to actually let him in...

Hey everyone. Decided to pop in here since I'm stuck. A few years back, I got hit with a ban from the Cars subforum. There was this one totally unhinged, ultra-conservative, neurotic jerk of an admin, StinGer, who isn't even an admin or a member on the site anymore. But he still managed to screw me over for good, and now I have no idea who to talk to about getting this ban lifted. Honestly, I only got it because he was having a bad day and didn't like my vibe. Anyway, doesn't really matter. Since I can't access that damn part of the forum to ask you there, I figured I'd try here. What do you call those chrome pieces that go around car doors? Is there an official name for them? I'm looking to order some, but I'm clueless on what to search for.

Lajsna?