Offside Chat Archives (2014-2021)

Anyone actually follow the details on that recent plane crash? A buddy was lecturing me all day yesterday about Americans. Obviously, he "hates" them, but that doesn't mean his facts are wrong. Honestly, I couldn't retain a single thing he said because he was just rattling off info non-stop while we were out. Also, how much weight do the Russians actually put behind those pro-Russian types in Ukraine? How much (or little) support are they giving them? How, and why? If anyone knows their stuff, give me the short version. Thanks.

Walter Grant5 said:Anyone actually follow the details on that recent plane crash? A buddy was lecturing me all day yesterday about Americans. Obviously, he "hates" them, but that doesn't mean his facts are wrong. Honestly, I couldn't retain a single thing he said because he was just rattling off info non-stop while we were out. Also, how much weight do the Russians actually put behind those pro-Russian types in Ukraine? How much (or little) support are they giving them? How, and why? If anyone knows their stuff, give me the short version. Thanks.

I'll take a crack at it.

In the region, you have both locals and ethnic Russians living side-by-side, with a significant portion of the population speaking Russian.
The current government came to power via a coup led by right-wing nationalist factions. This understandably infuriated the Russians, who felt pushed away and decided to assert their own sovereignty. Putin gave that movement his blessing.
And now, the fighting is in full swing.

As for the aircraft... honestly, what kind of fool flies a commercial passenger plane directly over an active war zone?

thanks.

any chance Americans got mixed up in this? diplomatic stuff, anything at all?

Is there anything left in this world connected to oil and gas that hasn't been touched by American interests?

Walter Grant5 said:thanks.

any chance Americans got mixed up in this? diplomatic stuff, anything at all?

Here’s my take based on what I've been following:

Yanukovych, the former Ukrainian president, was tight with Putin, and they had just finalized some sort of economic deal right before the revolution hit. Then, suddenly, the revolution erupts—right in the middle of the Olympics in Russia—and the pro-EU, pro-Western faction comes out on top. Officially, the U.S. claims they didn't interfere, but let's be honest: a revolution of that scale doesn't just happen without some level of outside support.

By the time the last Olympics wrapped up, the old government was long gone. That's when Russia decided to step in, attempting to seize border regions like Crimea and fueling unrest elsewhere.

That’s roughly where I stopped keeping close tabs on everything. From what I can see, the U.S. and the EU are backing the new administration and threatening Russia with sanctions (which could easily backfire during the winter). Honestly, the whole plane crash situation feels like a massive screw-up by one side or the other. Shooting down a plane filled with 300 mostly European civilians is such an extreme, radical move that if it were actually a calculated, planned operation, it's hard to believe the fallout wouldn't be even more catastrophic than what we're seeing.

An entire Olympic Games passed by while they were busy tearing down the government. ☕

Maminho just keeps looking over at Other sports. ☕

ambertinker41 said:Maminho just keeps looking over at Other sports. ☕

Are you talking about F1? I mean, even the Olympics have a decent chunk of coverage 🙂

🤣
When is the permanent fix coming? ☕

Walter Grant5 said:thanks.

any chance Americans got mixed up in this? diplomatic stuff, anything at all?

Purely rhetorical. It’s always the same old "we support democratic shifts" line... while the real funding behind these protests comes from Germany, France, and Poland.

Eric Fox7 said:Are you talking about F1? I mean, even the Olympics have a decent chunk of coverage 🙂

🤣

Eric Fox7 said:Are you talking about F1? I mean, even the Olympics have a decent chunk of coverage 🙂

That wasn't an update.

It’s actually pretty easy to draw a parallel here

The whole dynamic of America versus America/Mexico is basically just like Ukraine versus the USSR/Russia.

Aside from the fact that these points don't really have anything to do with one another...

No, Russia is just the American/Mexican equivalent, while those separatists are basically the Republic of Mexican Appalachia.

Walter Grant5 said:thanks.

any chance Americans got mixed up in this? diplomatic stuff, anything at all?

I guess it's just stuff stuck in the heads of internet trolls.

mellowotter36 said:No, Russia is just the American/Mexican equivalent, while those separatists are basically the Republic of Mexican Appalachia.

And why don't we just say Ukraine is Mexico, and the separatists are the Albanians?

Amanda Evans2 said:Aside from the fact that these points don't really have anything to do with one another...

it’s actually pretty similar. You’ve got this mess brewing on someone else's turf, and now everyone thinks Russia is the center of the universe just because there are five Russians involved. And they blame Putin for carving up Crimea—which he only did for some other strategic reasons anyway—but honestly? He doesn't give a damn about territory for territory's sake. It's more about the bigger picture. But then, suddenly, the domestic separatists get a taste of power and start wanting the whole thing. I don't follow all the nuances, but if you ask me, we're looking at a predictable script: once the pressure gets too high, Putin will just cut them loose, and then it'll be a total mad dash through Moscow. 😁

ruggedjackal46 said:Here’s my take based on what I've been following:

Yanukovych, the former Ukrainian president, was tight with Putin, and they had just finalized some sort of economic deal right before the revolution hit. Then, suddenly, the revolution erupts—right in the middle of the Olympics in Russia—and the pro-EU, pro-Western faction comes out on top. Officially, the U.S. claims they didn't interfere, but let's be honest: a revolution of that scale doesn't just happen without some level of outside support.

By the time the last Olympics wrapped up, the old government was long gone. That's when Russia decided to step in, attempting to seize border regions like Crimea and fueling unrest elsewhere.

That’s roughly where I stopped keeping close tabs on everything. From what I can see, the U.S. and the EU are backing the new administration and threatening Russia with sanctions (which could easily backfire during the winter). Honestly, the whole plane crash situation feels like a massive screw-up by one side or the other. Shooting down a plane filled with 300 mostly European civilians is such an extreme, radical move that if it were actually a calculated, planned operation, it's hard to believe the fallout wouldn't be even more catastrophic than what we're seeing.

It feels similar to how things unfolded during the breakup of America. We and the Canadians fought for independence, and then the Mexicans moved in with weapons and that whole "wherever a Mexican lives, that's Mexico" rhetoric. In this context, maybe you could say the Russians act like the Mexicans of Asia, and we all know how to handle that. If someone hits you, you probably have to hit them back twice as hard. If Ukraine had kept its nuclear weapons, maybe this crisis wouldn't be happening. It seems easy enough to take Crimea when the international community can really only offer economic sanctions that don't suit anyone anyway.

Jeffrey Edwards76 said:it’s actually pretty similar. You’ve got this mess brewing on someone else's turf, and now everyone thinks Russia is the center of the universe just because there are five Russians involved. And they blame Putin for carving up Crimea—which he only did for some other strategic reasons anyway—but honestly? He doesn't give a damn about territory for territory's sake. It's more about the bigger picture. But then, suddenly, the domestic separatists get a taste of power and start wanting the whole thing. I don't follow all the nuances, but if you ask me, we're looking at a predictable script: once the pressure gets too high, Putin will just cut them loose, and then it'll be a total mad dash through Moscow. 😁

Quite the opposite. Crimea was handed over to Ukraine by Khrushchev about fifty years ago. The Russians didn't move in there; they were always there. Well, maybe not "always," but there certainly wasn't a Ukrainian presence to speak of.