Offside Chat Archives (2014-2021)

When asked if we’ve finally made it through the critical weeks, Markotić just shrugs and goes, "I don't know."

🤣

I have a feeling most people hold that kind of attitude right up until the moment they actually have to pack their gear and head into the mountains, and then they'd probably find any excuse to stretch out their stay just a little bit longer.😉

It depends. You’ve got people hitting 75 who are still living life to the fullest, full of energy and plenty of interests. Then you have those who are basically dead at 65. It all comes down to how long your body holds up and whether you actually have your head on straight.

brightpilot6 said:@ Ken

Does it really bother you that little when it comes to the elderly and the sick? And for what reason—just so the current metrics, or perhaps those in the next two or three years, don't get in the way of your ability to grab a steak every single weekend?

It’s easy enough to hold that perspective when you're in your thirties and in peak health. Or so I suppose.

And when I say "the elderly," I'm not just referring to the eighty-plus crowd, but also people twenty years younger than that, who have relatively good years ahead of them and a health situation that would normally be under control, yet has now become critical.

Not to mention the trauma being dealt to healthcare workers, who, quite frankly, are being paid next to nothing for the work they're doing right now.

It's not even about that. I'm just mocking the whole absurd situation where people are dying left and right, yet we get three presidential briefings on death a day. It’s surreal. Zoran Milanović is easily the most unhinged guy I've seen in the comments 🙏 And yeah, I care. Of course I care about the future; any sane person would be worried about what's coming our way.

Regarding the whole thing... I think we're all just overreacting. Plus, we're stuck in this weird "limbo" regarding medical progress. We have medicine advanced enough to keep people clinging to life, but the question is, what kind of life is it? I'm pretty much on the same page as Byron's line of thinking: as long as you're vital and independent, sure, live to 150. Otherwise...

Dennis Evans6 said:I have a feeling most people hold that kind of attitude right up until the moment they actually have to pack their gear and head into the mountains, and then they'd probably find any excuse to stretch out their stay just a little bit longer.😉

otprilike.

Just a little nudge for those of you who prioritize living your life over obsessing over the economy. Look, I get it, we all know the drill and you probably already realized this, but... well, here it is, just a quick reminder.

U.N. warns economic downturn could kill hundreds of thousands of children in 2020

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN21Y2X7

ruggedjackal46 said:You know, healthcare isn't just about having a bed to toss a patient into, is it? 🙂

Otherwise, Sweden could just order a few thousand beds from IKEA and call it a day. Problem solved, right? 😂

Maybe it would be more useful to look at the actual medical staff counts in different countries, what they’re getting paid on average, and how many of them are jumping ship to work abroad. That probably gives a much more realistic picture of actual healthcare capacity, don't you think?

You can basically order ICU units from Ikee, then just throw in some ventilators for good measure. Maybe they even have a "buy two ICU beds, get one ventilator free" deal running? If so, ship them over immediately.

SS fixed everything 🙏🙏🙏

Maybe it would actually be more useful to look at the number of medical staff in certain countries, what their average salary looks like, and how many healthcare workers have migrated to other nations. That probably gives a much more realistic picture of actual healthcare capacity.

Yeah, maybe if you spent a little more time actually studying the subject, you might end up with an argument that actually holds water.

ruggedjackal46 said:The death toll in the USA is ten times higher than what we're seeing in China. What kind of leadership does that even suggest?

Sweden has a death count roughly equal to our current infection numbers. Look, countries like Sweden or Germany can afford to take those kinds of risks because they have robust healthcare systems capable of absorbing a massive surge in patients. Our healthcare system is already straining at the seams; they're turning away people who don't even have Coronavirus just to keep up. What on earth would happen if we had 20,000 active cases instead of 2,000?

Honestly, this whole situation is a tectonic disaster. It’s a complete wreck for the economy, and it’s just as messy for politics, especially now that the crisis management team has basically become an unquestionable authority. No matter how you slice it, it's a total mess.

If the system is creaking now, it will likely collapse entirely in a few years, simply because I wonder where the funding for healthcare is actually going to come from.

Churches shouldn't have been closed at all; if anything, they should have been encouraging people to head to Mass every single day☕

Some people here seem to spend their time criticizing anyone who doesn't blindly accept every single word coming out of the headquarters, yet on the flip side, they’ll unthinkingly swallow any nonsense the Americans throw our way or claim they intend to do ☕

brightpilot6 said:Some people here seem to spend their time criticizing anyone who doesn't blindly accept every single word coming out of the headquarters, yet on the flip side, they’ll unthinkingly swallow any nonsense the Americans throw our way or claim they intend to do ☕

😍

I’ve been pointing out the moves the USA is making, and honestly, I’ve been giving props to the strategies some Far East countries are using, plus the steps Germany is taking, and I even brought up how the Russians have jumped straight into massive testing and are absolutely sprinting ahead, making them the second most active globally right now.

I just call it like I see it when things look positive, and in the case of the USA, I wasn't saying their entire strategy is perfect, just a few specific moves that I think are actually pretty brilliant.

It isn't exactly rocket science to take a side if you actually put in the effort, but sure, anyone can just sit back and spit on everything, and hey, nobody’s stopping you from doing that, not even the headquarters.

Amanda Evans2 said:What really gets under my skin is how the response is identical to every other similar catastrophe; there’s zero dialogue and absolutely no room for an opposing viewpoint. We have these epidemiology experts constantly cranking up the panic levels while systematically dismantling the economy.
The go-to argument is always some moralistic lecture about how we can possibly care about money when people are dying.
It doesn't matter that for anyone under 65, the threat level of this disease is roughly on par with the risk of a fatal car accident. It doesn't matter that you aren't catching this thing just by walking into a grocery store. The only thing that matters is blindly following the "experts."
The whole approach is designed to stifle debate; if you don't fall in line, you're labeled morally bankrupt, and the personal attacks start immediately.

Why has this cold, calculated logic been completely ignored during this crisis? Why is the only narrative allowed to be one of pure catastrophe? For days on end, we were fed nothing but increasingly dire forecasts in the media, with scientists practically competing to see who could predict the most apocalyptic scenario. Even our own leaders and the international establishment have been flipping their stances constantly.
If you dare to ask even a single question, you're immediately met with condescension and moralizing references to the thousands of deaths in Italy.
We implemented lockdowns and brought the entire economy to its knees, and frankly, these quarantines will serve as the perfect excuse for economic stagnation for the next decade.
Politically speaking, it’s already obvious that this is being exploited; popularity is surging for almost everyone in power, with the notable exceptions of Donald Trump and Bolsonaro.

Vili and his crowd will spend years trumpeting how much they "saved" through lockdowns—a metric that is impossible to actually quantify. It will be much easier to measure the lives lost because of the fallout from these very restrictions once the economic depression truly hits.

I find this absolutist attitude from the experts infuriating. Aside from Sweden, most of the rest of the world played it safe in a way that feels downright cowardly.
Look, to achieve any significant goal—whether in life or in economics—you have to embrace risk and the uncertainty of success. Instead, by sticking to these "safety first" strategies, we are just digging ourselves deeper into trenches and hiding from an invisible enemy.

Even if there's a 100 percent chance that nothing happens at all, we'll still find ourselves being judged by these self-appointed moral saints who condemn anyone who refuses to follow their path... because apparently, seeing the bigger picture is a sin...

Maybe you just answered your own question, because realistically, there isn't much else to it. No politician is ever going to step up and shoulder the responsibility for potential victims caused by inaction during times like these. Nor does anyone actually have the legitimacy to say, "Screw it, we aren't doing anything, just look out for yourselves, and whoever survives can tell the tale." Or, more likely, they'll claim the economic benefits or the preservation of social comfort are worth sacrificing XY number of human lives—essentially offering up human sacrifice just to appease the gods of the economy. We can say that as private citizens, of course; personally, I find the idea that every single human life is sacred to be somewhat ridiculous, though I don't think I'd actually dare to act on that principle in a situation like this if I were in a position of power. I mean, you can only really gamble with your own life, not someone else's.

restlesssurfer97 said:You can basically order ICU units from Ikee, then just throw in some ventilators for good measure. Maybe they even have a "buy two ICU beds, get one ventilator free" deal running? If so, ship them over immediately.

SS fixed everything 🙏🙏🙏

Maybe it would actually be more useful to look at the number of medical staff in certain countries, what their average salary looks like, and how many healthcare workers have migrated to other nations. That probably gives a much more realistic picture of actual healthcare capacity.

Yeah, maybe if you spent a little more time actually studying the subject, you might end up with an argument that actually holds water.

So, what, I’m supposed to go research whether Swedish doctors pull in higher salaries than American ones, or if medical professionals are fleeing the US at a faster rate than they are from Sweden? 😍

Anthony Wright30 said:If the system is creaking now, it will likely collapse entirely in a few years, simply because I wonder where the funding for healthcare is actually going to come from.

Just take it from the church, and there's your funding right there. ☕

Paul Sanders5 said:God, help us 🙏

But... man... the elderly, the sick, the kids, women, dogs, cats...

I wonder what the smart guys would say if things had gone the other way. If the measures were weak, inadequate, and resulted in bodies piling up... then the geniuses with their witty jokes about how incompetent the experts were at stopping the pandemic would be getting massive applause again. It’s easy to go to war without offering an alternative or actual solutions. But hey, he's just a journalist in America... a much easier job with zero responsibility compared to those who have to make the tough calls in the moment. But sure... Šprajc is king... Šprajc revealed the truth...🙏

ruggedjackal46 said:So, what, I’m supposed to go research whether Swedish doctors pull in higher salaries than American ones, or if medical professionals are fleeing the US at a faster rate than they are from Sweden? 😍

Just take it from the church, and there's your funding right there. ☕

That’s only an issue if you honestly believe that a paycheck is the single most important metric for measuring how much capacity a healthcare system actually has.

Because we’re talking about the actual capacity of the healthcare system here, right?

wiredrider9 said:Hospitals are looking pretty damn empty

Regarding the hospitals in Los Angeles, that isn't true. There’s a bit less activity since not all outpatient clinics are operating normally, but saying they're sitting empty is just nonsense...

restlesssurfer97 said:That’s only an issue if you honestly believe that a paycheck is the single most important metric for measuring how much capacity a healthcare system actually has.

Because we’re talking about the actual capacity of the healthcare system here, right?

If you have a relatively low number of medical professionals, low wages, and a high migration rate, it shows you simply don't have enough qualified staff to actually care for patients. To me, that seems to be the crux of the issue here: having competent medical personnel who know how to handle various complex cases. You can cram 1,000 beds into an Arena overnight, sure, but you can't just magically inject 1,000 skilled doctors into the system by tomorrow morning.

And when our best doctors and nurses are heading off to Austria, Germany, or even Sweden, it speaks volumes. It doesn't just mean we're losing our top talent; it means there are very real, very logical reasons why they're leaving.

Hindsight is such a beautiful thing, isn't it?🙏

ruggedjackal46 said:If you have a relatively low number of medical professionals, low wages, and a high migration rate, it shows you simply don't have enough qualified staff to actually care for patients. To me, that seems to be the crux of the issue here: having competent medical personnel who know how to handle various complex cases. You can cram 1,000 beds into an Arena overnight, sure, but you can't just magically inject 1,000 skilled doctors into the system by tomorrow morning.

And when our best doctors and nurses are heading off to Austria, Germany, or even Sweden, it speaks volumes. It doesn't just mean we're losing our top talent; it means there are very real, very logical reasons why they're leaving.

Why are you playing games with the bed counts at the Arena? We both know those numbers don't count.
Do you actually have any data showing that Swedes have more medical staff than Americans?
Of course you don't, you're just talking in circles.

The pay is better there, and yeah, some medical staff emigrated from America, but that’s really all you’re offering to support the claim that Sweden has a higher healthcare capacity for fighting Coronavirus than America.

On the flip side, America has a higher number of available beds per capita and more intensive care units. An ICU implies all the equipment and the staff included, if my logic isn't totally off, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. And I'm pretty sure the number of ventilators was higher too, but whatever...

Bottom line is, since you were so confident asserting that Sweden has greater healthcare capacities than America for tackling Coronavirus, it would be pretty fair to back that up with something real.
Otherwise, it just sounds like another empty cliché. Because if you actually backed it up with some hard data and figures, then I could actually accept it as a fact and maybe use it in a debate tomorrow, but like this? It's useless. Man.