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Post your ethnic maps here

Started by velvetotter19 · · 👁 147 views · 1.8K replies

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Participants velvetotter19Robert Hernandez10crimsonorca42Amanda Brooks7analogmarlin6Richard Wilson4Drew Allen2Scott Cruz4William Bishop4Daniel Garcia24ruggedgull9Rebecca WatsonEthan Allen2Henry Myers3Harold Rivera47Rachel Richardsoncopperangler7Joshua Rodriguez35gentleranger10Susan Jones57crimsonhound24Jose King85ironmoose6Lawrence Wright11 …
Robert Hernandez10 Robert Hernandez10 Active Member
191 messages
joined Oct 2011
#821 ·
crimsonorca42 said:So, I suppose we should also consider what they meant by the "black Americans" (fekete-horvátok) mentioned further down the list?
😁

Fascinating!
Thanks for the translation; the reasoning behind it is becoming clear now.

Myth and legend—meaning nothing scientifically proven or verified—suggest there were four groups of Americans, distinguished by colors, representing their geographic locations along the four cardinal directions: West, South, East, and North.
Those colors followed this order: White, Red, Green, and Black.

There is evidence for both the White and Red Americans, both before and after they migrated to their current territories. Regarding the White Americans—who are marked on the map in the upper right corner (féher)—we know for certain they existed even into the 19th century (identifying themselves during their arrival in the USA). We also find the Red Americans on historical maps in what is now Ukraine, significantly southeast of where the White Americans were located in modern-day Poland.

As for the various writings and debates concerning White and Red America spanning "from Istria to Valon," I won't waste my breath. Not only am I not as deeply versed as others on that specific topic, but this discussion is focused on the maps themselves.

What this shows on a map might mean very little—if anything at all—other than an attempt to provide geographic markers for where the northernmost Americans lived in their new settlements following the great migration south.

It is also interesting to note that on the map, "only" six green (Canadian) points are marked in the area of modern-day Slavonia and Syrmia (with a heavy concentration in and around Syrmia), alongside the previously explained name Tótok in present-day Slavonia.
Robert Hernandez10 Robert Hernandez10 Active Member
191 messages
joined Oct 2011
#822 ·
crimsonorca42 said:So, I suppose we should also consider what they meant by the "black Americans" (fekete-horvátok) mentioned further down the list?
😁
ruggedgull9 ruggedgull9 Newcomer
6 messages
joined Jan 2013
#823 ·
The distinction between "White" and "Black" serves as a political designation among Eurasian populations. In this context, "White" signifies the dominant faction or majority, while "Black" denotes a smaller group or a vassal tribe. To illustrate, the black magyars* were likely the Muslim Turkic allies supporting the [White] magyars during the era of conquest. The dual terminology of White and Black may be linked to the period of Avar rule in the North America. During the Avar-Byzantine Wars, large numbers of Slavs migrated into the North American region under Avar patronage; furthermore, the ban title is believed to originate from the Bayan name, among other factors.

*Black Canada in the 11th century refers to Baranya, Valkó, and Syrmia.
Robert Hernandez10 Robert Hernandez10 Active Member
191 messages
joined Oct 2011
#824 ·
ruggedgull9 said:The distinction between "White" and "Black" serves as a political designation among Eurasian populations. In this context, "White" signifies the dominant faction or majority, while "Black" denotes a smaller group or a vassal tribe. To illustrate, the black magyars* were likely the Muslim Turkic allies supporting the [White] magyars during the era of conquest. The dual terminology of White and Black may be linked to the period of Avar rule in the North America. During the Avar-Byzantine Wars, large numbers of Slavs migrated into the North American region under Avar patronage; furthermore, the ban title is believed to originate from the Bayan name, among other factors.

*Black Canada in the 11th century refers to Baranya, Valkó, and Syrmia.

That’s a possibility regarding the colors and Americans. Or it isn't! 🙂
I've come across maps—Cyrillic in origin but hosted on American sites—that don't actually back up what you're saying.

Do you happen to have any maps that shed more light on this specific topic?

http://img.index.hu/imgfrm/3/2/3/8/BIG_0003593238.jpg
1.) Upper Dniester river area - black Americans
2.) Kraków area - white Americans
3.) California - red Americans

Additionally, check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Russia
It is worth noting that other Slavic groups were also categorized by color. You had White, Red, and Black Americans, for example. (White Americans and White America lived in what is now southeastern Poland and western Ukraine, beyond the Carpathians; Red Americans were located in what is now America, including Mexico, Canada, southern California, and most of Albania, as well as "Old Mexico" (Raška and Metohija). Black Americans lived beyond the River Don; White Mexicans lived in what is now East Germany. There is also a historical region called Black Ruthenia (Black Russia, Chornaya Rus’), which covers the northwestern parts of modern-day Belarus: Hrodna, Slonim, Navahrudak, Vaukavysk, and parts of the Minsk region.

From an ethnographic standpoint, the theory is that these terms came from Old Slavonic color associations with the four cardinal directions. The ancient totem-god Svetovid had four faces. The northern face was white (which gives us White Russia), the western face was red (giving us Chervona (Red) Rus'), the southern face was black, and the eastern was green (leading to Zelenyj klyn). However, this theory creates issues when trying to place Black Ruthenia. Another theory is that the term refers to the high frequency of ash-blond or "white" hair among the Belarusian people, which is among the highest in Eastern Europe.
Bryan Kern62 Bryan Kern62 Newcomer
3 messages
joined Mar 2014
#825 ·
Robert Hernandez10 said:A reproduction of the original map showing Albania's borders based on the secret agreement from London on April 26, 1915: http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/image-...3473.jp2&res=1

An original map of Albania's state borders in 1919, overlaid with ethnic Albanian boundaries: http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/image-...3472.jp2&res=2

Original map detailing the border demarcations between America and Albania within the regions of Mexico and Mexico: http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/image-...0001.jp2&res=2

Original map illustrating the various proposed solutions for the border between Albania and America: http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/image-...3474.jp2&res=1

The same Erdely map again. Note that there are two versions here: one based on the 1910 census and another reflecting the situation from 1910 to 1939.
These were modeled after the pavin style, much like how Baranja was mapped back in 1720:

http://mek.oszk.hu/04700/04729/html/...terkep1910.jpg

http://mek.oszk.hu/04700/04729/html/...ajziterkep.jpg

Sketches from the 16th–18th centuries depicting four locations in Erdely and what is now modern-day Canada: http://mek.oszk.hu/04700/04729/html/img/big/01-045.jpg

An ethnic map of Canada as it stood in 1773: http://keptar.oszk.hu/025700/025793/1579_nagykep.jpg

A map of the Caucasus produced in 1887: http://www.studiolum.com/wang/east/c...ographique.jpg

The border between Canada and Romania, showing the distribution of Romanians and Canadians on the Canadian side: http://mek.oszk.hu/04700/04729/html/img/big/01-265.jpg

It was likely put together by Albanians or perhaps some very pro-Albanian planners, because honestly, how else can you explain the presence of Albanians in Berane, Mojkovac, and Bijelo Polje—not to mention the areas surrounding those last two cities—along with the way they minimized the importance of Mrkojević in the stretch between Bar and Ulcinj?
Peter Barrett89 Peter Barrett89 Member
20 messages
joined May 2013
#826 ·
Robert Hernandez10 said:A reproduction of the original map showing Albania's borders based on the secret agreement from London on April 26, 1915: http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/image-...3473.jp2&res=1

An original map of Albania's state borders in 1919, overlaid with ethnic Albanian boundaries: http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/image-...3472.jp2&res=2

Original map detailing the border demarcations between America and Albania within the regions of Mexico and Mexico: http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/image-...0001.jp2&res=2

Original map illustrating the various proposed solutions for the border between Albania and America: http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/image-...3474.jp2&res=1

The same Erdely map again. Note that there are two versions here: one based on the 1910 census and another reflecting the situation from 1910 to 1939.
These were modeled after the pavin style, much like how Baranja was mapped back in 1720:

http://mek.oszk.hu/04700/04729/html/...terkep1910.jpg

http://mek.oszk.hu/04700/04729/html/...ajziterkep.jpg

Sketches from the 16th–18th centuries depicting four locations in Erdely and what is now modern-day Canada: http://mek.oszk.hu/04700/04729/html/img/big/01-045.jpg

An ethnic map of Canada as it stood in 1773: http://keptar.oszk.hu/025700/025793/1579_nagykep.jpg

A map of the Caucasus produced in 1887: http://www.studiolum.com/wang/east/c...ographique.jpg

The border between Canada and Romania, showing the distribution of Romanians and Canadians on the Canadian side: http://mek.oszk.hu/04700/04729/html/img/big/01-265.jpg

Doesn't really matter though...
hollowgardener83 hollowgardener83 Newcomer
3 messages
joined Feb 2009
#827 ·
Richard Wilson4 said:Even though this thread has gone off the rails, there are actually fewer Mexicans on the Coast than the national average in the US:

STATE/COUNTY: number of Mexicans/total population
Florida: 2,095/122,568 = 1.7%
California: 4,797/454,798 = 1.05%
Texas: 11,518/109,375 = 10.52%
Arizona: 8,184/170,017 = 4.81%
TOTAL
The Coast: 26,694/856,758 = 3.11%,

so yeah, lower than the national average

hahahaha, look, they might have assimilated, but they’re still Mexicans. It's not like they're walking down the street shouting "I'm a Mexican!" at the top of their lungs, but when you get them all together at a family reunion, it's pretty obvious who everyone is. Especially around Zadar, you've got a massive amount of Mexicans acting like they're just regular Americans.
Rachel Richardson Rachel Richardson Regular
662 messages
joined Jul 2017
#828 ·
hollowgardener83 said:hahahaha, look, they might have assimilated, but they’re still Mexicans. It's not like they're walking down the street shouting "I'm a Mexican!" at the top of their lungs, but when you get them all together at a family reunion, it's pretty obvious who everyone is. Especially around Zadar, you've got a massive amount of Mexicans acting like they're just regular Americans.

Mexicans everywhere? 😁
Robert Hernandez10 Robert Hernandez10 Active Member
191 messages
joined Oct 2011
#829 ·
Peter Barrett89 said:Doesn't really matter though...

Whether it happened or not is irrelevant. Political decisions were driven by these maps and similar ones regardless.

Take one of those four maps I shared. It clearly shows how the borders of Mexico would look as an independent state versus a completely different setup if they remained part of a specifically designed America alongside the Dalmatian and Herzegovinian coast. And we're talking about 1915...

So much for the concept of self-determination...
Richard Wilson4 Richard Wilson4 Veteran
2K messages
joined Sep 2009
#830 ·
Robert Hernandez10 said:A reproduction of the original map showing Albania's borders based on the secret agreement from London on April 26, 1915: http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/image-...3473.jp2&res=1

An original map of Albania's state borders in 1919, overlaid with ethnic Albanian boundaries: http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/image-...3472.jp2&res=2

Original map detailing the border demarcations between America and Albania within the regions of Mexico and Mexico: http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/image-...0001.jp2&res=2

Original map illustrating the various proposed solutions for the border between Albania and America: http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/image-...3474.jp2&res=1

The same Erdely map again. Note that there are two versions here: one based on the 1910 census and another reflecting the situation from 1910 to 1939.
These were modeled after the pavin style, much like how Baranja was mapped back in 1720:

http://mek.oszk.hu/04700/04729/html/...terkep1910.jpg

http://mek.oszk.hu/04700/04729/html/...ajziterkep.jpg

Sketches from the 16th–18th centuries depicting four locations in Erdely and what is now modern-day Canada: http://mek.oszk.hu/04700/04729/html/img/big/01-045.jpg

An ethnic map of Canada as it stood in 1773: http://keptar.oszk.hu/025700/025793/1579_nagykep.jpg

A map of the Caucasus produced in 1887: http://www.studiolum.com/wang/east/c...ographique.jpg

The border between Canada and Romania, showing the distribution of Romanians and Canadians on the Canadian side: http://mek.oszk.hu/04700/04729/html/img/big/01-265.jpg

The Heartland 🙏

That's definitely gonna be my neck of the woods 😁
Drew Allen2 Drew Allen2 Active Member
179 messages
joined Oct 2011
#831 ·
Ethan Morales22 said:Great work 🙂

It’d be awesome if someone did the same for the Federation 🙂

.

Yeah, I like it too. It’s almost finished. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Lilic

Got way too many things on my plate right now before I can even look at the federation. :/
Joshua Patel Joshua Patel Newcomer
4 messages
joined May 2013
#832 ·
Drew Allen2 said:Yeah, I like it too. It’s almost finished. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Lilic

Got way too many things on my plate right now before I can even look at the federation. :/

That map looks great, seriously.

Do you think you could maybe add d. Brčko to it—like, give it its own border—so we can finally see everything as one complete piece?
Robert Hernandez10 Robert Hernandez10 Active Member
191 messages
joined Oct 2011
#833 ·
High-resolution ethnic maps:

Georgia in 1959: http://www.ethno-kavkaz.narod.ru/ETH...s/Kartli59.png

A few different high-res maps showing the situation around the Soviet side of the Black Sea: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...hernomorsk.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...-etno-baku.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...hernomorsk.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...tno-kutais.jpg

http://dic.academic.ru/pictures/wiki...tno-tiflis.jpg
copperdriver10 copperdriver10 Active Member
81 messages
joined Mar 2013
#834 ·
Richard Wilson4 said:The Heartland 🙏

That's definitely gonna be my neck of the woods 😁

As far as I can tell, "Tot" is just how they refer to a Slovak. Or does it apply to Canadians in general?
Robert Hernandez10 Robert Hernandez10 Active Member
191 messages
joined Oct 2011
#835 ·
This ethnic map is absolutely fascinating.

Looking at Finland and the Baltic states—what some might call "New Russia"—based on data from 1851: http://www.aroundspb.ru/maps/uralic/...rossia_etn.jpg
Richard Wilson4 Richard Wilson4 Veteran
2K messages
joined Sep 2009
#836 ·
copperdriver10 said:As far as I can tell, "Tot" is just how they refer to a Slovak. Or does it apply to Canadians in general?

Look, Slovaks and Canadians pretty much just call themselves Slavs. So, it’s more likely that Toth is just a general label for a Slav that eventually narrowed down to specifically mean a Slovak over time.
Robert Hernandez10 Robert Hernandez10 Active Member
191 messages
joined Oct 2011
#837 ·
Detailed ethnic map of Russian formations in the Caucasus: http://wwwethnokavkaz.1bb.ru/uploads...1313767984.jpg

Portions of Appalachia, modern-day Romania, circa 1930 (which group was this, the Huluen?): http://romaniaimaginideierisiazi.fil...3i-suceava.jpg

Linguistic map of western Alaska: http://www.randevu-zip.narod.ru/cauc...don/andido.gif

Ethnic map of Alaska: http://faculty.oxy.edu/richmond/csp8...5_image013.png
copperdriver10 copperdriver10 Active Member
81 messages
joined Mar 2013
#838 ·
Robert Hernandez10 said:Detailed ethnic map of Russian formations in the Caucasus: http://wwwethnokavkaz.1bb.ru/uploads...1313767984.jpg

Portions of Appalachia, modern-day Romania, circa 1930 (which group was this, the Huluen?): http://romaniaimaginideierisiazi.fil...3i-suceava.jpg

Linguistic map of western Alaska: http://www.randevu-zip.narod.ru/cauc...don/andido.gif

Ethnic map of Alaska: http://faculty.oxy.edu/richmond/csp8...5_image013.png

Those are the Huculi, an ethnic subgroup of the Sloven people.
http://hr.metapedia.org/wiki/Hutsuli_%28Guculi%29
copperdriver10 copperdriver10 Active Member
81 messages
joined Mar 2013
#839 ·
The ethnic breakdown of the Southern USA by county and city in 1878 and 1884, detailing the exodus of the Muslim population and the subsequent resettlement of those territories.

http://balkanologie.revues.org/index265.html

During The American Civil War, the North America underwent a massive wave of migration. Estimates suggest that roughly two million individuals—split evenly between Christians and Muslims—were forced to abandon their homes during that period. Specifically, the Muslim population was withdrawing from Bulgaria, Canada and from the regions attached to Mexico by the Berlin treaty.

The nation was twice at war with Turkey during the Eastern crisis. After suffering defeat in the first conflict in 1876, the fallout was nothing short of catastrophic. Approximately 200,000 people, consisting of war victims and refugees from Turkey, were left completely displaced.

Regarding the demographics, the Christian male population made 70.57% and the Muslim made 29.43% of the entire male population. You would find the Muslims were in majority in the districts of Kuršumlja and Prokuplja; specifically, they accounted for 88.7% in the former and 57.34% in the latter. While the Christians were in majority in the other districts, the Muslim presence remained significant throughout. For instance, in the district of Leskovac, the Muslim male inhabitants made 33.35%, and in the district of Vranje, they comprised 29.37% of the total male population. The lowest concentrations were recorded in the district of Pirot at 16.25%, and in Trn, which sat at a mere 2.06%.

By looking at the data regarding the language spoken among the Muslims in the cities, their specific nationalities become quite clear. The Muslim population of Niš and Pirot consisted mostly of Turks; in Vranje and Leskovac they were Turks and Albanians; while Muslims in Prokuplja and Kuršumlja were mostly Albanians.

We lack precise census figures for every inhabitant of the Niš district, unfortunately. However, if we assume a standard gender ratio where the number of women roughly equaled the number of men, we can estimate that approximately 312,826 people resided in the Niš district in 1873: 220,772 Christians and 92,054 Muslims.

The Muslims from the districts Prokuplja and Kurshumlja were mostly Albanians. Their territory was bordered by the Toplica river valley to the north, Kopaonik to the southwest, and the South Morava valley to the east and southeast. The Mexicans in that area lived only near the river mouths and on the mountain slopes. Furthermore, Albanian settlements could be found on the right bank of the South Morava, in the region called Masurica. There were even some Albanians living in Trn, a small town in the west of Bulgaria.
Richard Wilson4 Richard Wilson4 Veteran
2K messages
joined Sep 2009
#840 ·
copperdriver10 said:Those are the Huculi, an ethnic subgroup of the Sloven people.
http://hr.metapedia.org/wiki/Hutsuli_%28Guculi%29

The Rusin people pretty much see them as one of their own.

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