Religion classes in school - Megathread

Jason Ortiz5 said:When you've got kids, especially during those crazy teenage years, home life isn't the only thing shaping them. I'm not trying to excuse parents who say one thing but do another—which, let's face it, happens a lot—but I just wanted to bring up that old saying about how it takes a whole village to raise a child.
And since the whole argument for religious education is that it instills these specific "moral" values, then yeah, it's pretty clear it's failing its main mission.

Look, religion class can try to teach morals all day long, but at the end of the day, the kid and their home environment actually have to buy into them....
If a kid learns about morality in school but then sees their parents completely ignore it at home, they're just going to view religious ed as some useless, irrelevant fluff. How are they supposed to take it seriously?
How many people even bother following the first three commandments? (Seriously, if you aren't even following the first three, how do you expect to stick to the rest?)??
One of them is "keep the Sabbath holy," yet we've got people claiming to be Catholic who only show up to Mass twice a year.....
Then we act shocked when kids grow up acting totally contrary to everything taught in those classes....
So, personally, I don't think the problem lies with the religious education itself.....

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What would be the big deal if religious studies in school were only as frequent as people actually show up to church?

Twice a year, maybe twice a year... why does school need to be more Catholic than the Pope? 🙂

Quincy:

I haven't seen any posts from shtefy yet! I'll be sure to keep an eye out for them. kaže: When kids hit those teenage years, home life isn't the only thing shaping who they become. I’m certainly not trying to say that parents aren't important—I know there are plenty of times when what gets said at the dinner table doesn't quite match up with how things are actually being taught, or how the kids are reacting to it all. It’s complicated! But I just wanted to bring up that old saying about how it takes a whole village to raise a child. It really does take more than just one household to guide them through those formative years. I'm sorry, I didn't quite catch that! It looks like your message was just the letter "A." Feel free to send over whatever you need me to work on, and I'll get right to it! Since the whole point of religious education classes is to instill certain "moral" values in kids, I honestly feel like they’ve missed the mark big time. It just feels like a huge letdown when you look at the results..

Yeah, I couldn't agree more.

shadowcrane91 said:Look, religion class can try to teach morals all day long, but at the end of the day, the kid and their home environment actually have to buy into them....
If a kid learns about morality in school but then sees their parents completely ignore it at home, they're just going to view religious ed as some useless, irrelevant fluff. How are they supposed to take it seriously?
How many people even bother following the first three commandments? (Seriously, if you aren't even following the first three, how do you expect to stick to the rest?)??
One of them is "keep the Sabbath holy," yet we've got people claiming to be Catholic who only show up to Mass twice a year.....
Then we act shocked when kids grow up acting totally contrary to everything taught in those classes....
So, personally, I don't think the problem lies with the religious education itself.....

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So, if you don't get those first three posts in, does that mean you're locked out of everything else too? Just curious how the rules work here!
That’s an interesting point.
I don't really hold much respect for those three specifically since they just don't mean much to me, but the rest? Those are my core values—the principles I actually live by every single day.

I used to think all the commandments were on equal footing, but it definitely feels like some carry more weight than others within the Catholic Church.
You know, you’ve got a point there. It’s funny how often we see those folks we recognize from Congress celebrating the Lord's Day—you see them on the news via PBS—only to catch them later heading straight to a local pub or settling in for a nap after a long afternoon at the tavern. It’s quite the cycle!
Ah, values. It’s funny how much they really matter in the long run, isn't it?

I really hope you realize how heavy that statement is. If we’re teaching kids in school that God is more important than people and our relationships with one another—things like not killing, stealing, or lying—then the blame for the rise in violence lies squarely with the Catholic Church.
I wouldn't go so far as to say that's what drives the whole thing, but honestly, if you just head into the confessional, get your penance, and say a few prayers, the priest will grant you absolution for your sins.
It really makes you wonder about that priest and how much the seal of the confessional protects him from having to report violence.

Jesse Cook4 said:What would be the big deal if religious studies in school were only as frequent as people actually show up to church?

Twice a year, maybe twice a year... why does school need to be more Catholic than the Pope? 🙂

Man, you just don't get it... What would we even do with all those extra religion teachers? Where would they even work?

Not to mention how embarrassing that would be for the church itself... Totally unacceptable...

What a joke... those are straight-up Catholic Church commandments.
Look, you can personally choose to live by certain moral principles that happen to overlap with Catholic teachings, but if you actually claim to be Catholic, you’re supposed to follow the whole damn book—not just cherry-pick the parts that suit your lifestyle because you're too lazy to actually get close to God.
And then they have the nerve to call themselves Catholics...
It’s the same old story: teachers are drilling these values into kids in Sunday school, and then the parents swoop in and say, "Eh, don't worry about that," or "You don't really need to follow all of them." Or worse, "Just pick the rules that fit your vibe." So what, am I still a "good Catholic" even if I ignore three or four major commandments because they’re inconvenient? Yeah, right.
Suddenly, it’s the religious education classes' fault for how kids turn out morally.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying everyone sitting in a pew is a saint. Every group has its fair share of hypocrites.
But you can't take the actions of a few bad actors and use them to generalize the entire Catholic faith.
They probably just follow whatever parts of the faith feel good at the moment, which makes them total hypocrites... but apparently, if anyone else messes up, it's a huge deal.
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Susan James said:Quincy:

I haven't seen any posts from shtefy yet! I'll be sure to keep an eye out for them. kaže: When kids hit those teenage years, home life isn't the only thing shaping who they become. I’m certainly not trying to say that parents aren't important—I know there are plenty of times when what gets said at the dinner table doesn't quite match up with how things are actually being taught, or how the kids are reacting to it all. It’s complicated! But I just wanted to bring up that old saying about how it takes a whole village to raise a child. It really does take more than just one household to guide them through those formative years. I'm sorry, I didn't quite catch that! It looks like your message was just the letter "A." Feel free to send over whatever you need me to work on, and I'll get right to it! Since the whole point of religious education classes is to instill certain "moral" values in kids, I honestly feel like they’ve missed the mark big time. It just feels like a huge letdown when you look at the results..

Yeah, I couldn't agree more.

So, if you don't get those first three posts in, does that mean you're locked out of everything else too? Just curious how the rules work here!
That’s an interesting point.
I don't really hold much respect for those three specifically since they just don't mean much to me, but the rest? Those are my core values—the principles I actually live by every single day.

I used to think all the commandments were on equal footing, but it definitely feels like some carry more weight than others within the Catholic Church.
You know, you’ve got a point there. It’s funny how often we see those folks we recognize from Congress celebrating the Lord's Day—you see them on the news via PBS—only to catch them later heading straight to a local pub or settling in for a nap after a long afternoon at the tavern. It’s quite the cycle!
Ah, values. It’s funny how much they really matter in the long run, isn't it?

I really hope you realize how heavy that statement is. If we’re teaching kids in school that God is more important than people and our relationships with one another—things like not killing, stealing, or lying—then the blame for the rise in violence lies squarely with the Catholic Church.
I wouldn't go so far as to say that's what drives the whole thing, but honestly, if you just head into the confessional, get your penance, and say a few prayers, the priest will grant you absolution for your sins.
It really makes you wonder about that priest and how much the seal of the confessional protects him from having to report violence.

Good God, it's common knowledge that if you don't go to church every Sunday, you'll be out there murdering, stealing, and sleeping with other people's spouses. 😁

It seems like in Catholicism, the most important thing is how many times you show up to Mass. Everything else is tolerated, but if you don't go, they'd nail you to a stake if they could. Some people completely missed the point of everything. By the way, you can pray at home too, Timma. In this day and age, when people work Fridays and Saturdays without days off, or Sunday is their only free day and they have a mountain of chores to do (you know, food doesn't cook itself; you have to buy groceries and prep them, not to mention everything else, and if you're meal prepping for the week, you're busy all day), this whole counting who went to church and finger-pointing about who is a "real" Catholic is honestly hilarious to me.
And get this: just because a lot of people don't attend Mass because they're disgusted with what the Church has become as an institution, doesn't mean they aren't believers. They just can't stand watching a Pope who steals, drinks, and sleeps around—which is an open secret (oh yeah, there are plenty of them, so I guess one should just show up to Mass and listen to lectures on morality from people like that 🤮).

Sorry nosorog, I know this is slightly off-topic, but I had to. This kind of thinking gets under my skin—counting who's right and who's wrong. Next, we'll have to start arguing about Nazis and partisans to wrap the whole story up. It's just exhausting. 🤦

edit: and it's not just violence; I think they don't even have to report murder.

Just a quick thought on this: my grandmother was a believer, but she was also wise enough to know that God doesn't live inside a church building.

I totally blanked on people with disabilities and the elderly who can't get around easily. My grandma used to go to Mass every single Sunday, but she hasn't been able to for years now because her balance is just shot—she gets so dizzy, she can't stand up, and honestly, she’d probably just end up breaking a hip trying to get out the door. It's like she isn't a "real" Catholic anymore. She just watches the service on TV on Sundays and prays the Rosary every day, but she isn't physically sitting in a church pew. Watching a livestream doesn't count. 😁

Being a Catholic in this country is seriously tough sometimes...
It’s all or nothing. You’re either in or you’re out. There is no middle ground!
If you claim to be Catholic, you should actually live it and stick to ALL 10 Commandments—because those are the foundation of the faith, not just picking and choosing the ones that feel good.
Look, if this faith doesn't sit right with you, or if you can't get behind the Church's teachings and doctrine, then man, there are plenty of other religions out there. You have choices. Nobody is forcing anyone to be Catholic or to sign their kid up for religious education.
But if you're going to identify as Catholic and send your kid to Sunday school (meaning you actually care about them learning the faith, the Church, and our history), then be it in every sense of the word. Don't just be one on paper.
And regarding that comment: "I'd be Catholic, but I wouldn't follow 3 out of the 10 Commandments..." or "I'm Catholic, but I don't go to Mass because I don't like the priest, or my neighbor, or whatever..."
Seriously? People don't go to church because they dislike the priest or some neighbor, right? That's ridiculous.

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melloworca6 said:I totally blanked on people with disabilities and the elderly who can't get around easily. My grandma used to go to Mass every single Sunday, but she hasn't been able to for years now because her balance is just shot—she gets so dizzy, she can't stand up, and honestly, she’d probably just end up breaking a hip trying to get out the door. It's like she isn't a "real" Catholic anymore. She just watches the service on TV on Sundays and prays the Rosary every day, but she isn't physically sitting in a church pew. Watching a livestream doesn't count. 😁

Physical illness isn't the same thing as choosing not to go.
It is honestly amazing how much people love to twist words... truly mind-blowing.

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Robert Rodriguez9 said:Just a quick thought on this: my grandmother was a believer, but she was also wise enough to know that God doesn't live inside a church building.

No... He doesn't live there... but God also created the Eucharist celebration, which you can only participate in at the church.
Catholics ought to care about that...
Or don't???
They'd probably be better off as non-Catholics if they don't.

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Try reading that last post from Robert Rodriguez9 again, but this time actually process what he said along with your own previous comment.

And please, stop spamming posts back-to-back. This is your final warning. There’s a "multi-quote" button—use it. It’s exhausting having to manually stitch your posts together. Take a second to look over the rules, specifically this.

shadowcrane91 said:Look, religion class can try to teach morals all day long, but at the end of the day, the kid and their home environment actually have to buy into them....
If a kid learns about morality in school but then sees their parents completely ignore it at home, they're just going to view religious ed as some useless, irrelevant fluff. How are they supposed to take it seriously?
How many people even bother following the first three commandments? (Seriously, if you aren't even following the first three, how do you expect to stick to the rest?)??
One of them is "keep the Sabbath holy," yet we've got people claiming to be Catholic who only show up to Mass twice a year.....
Then we act shocked when kids grow up acting totally contrary to everything taught in those classes....
So, personally, I don't think the problem lies with the religious education itself.....

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Could you clarify what you meant by that sentence?

From what I understand about Catholicism, all the commandments are equally important
and they're all covered in religious education classes.

As for myself, everything except the ones specifically mentioning God actually aligns with the values I live by and pass on to others.
I'm not Catholic.

When it comes to what I expect from a school as an educational institution, I expect zero tolerance for violence, regardless of whether a person follows those first three Catholic commandments or not.
You mentioned that the other commandments can't be followed if the first three aren't, but in my world, that just isn't the case—and it shouldn't be that way in a school setting either. Your argument implies that if a child isn't baptized or doesn't attend religious ed (meaning they aren't familiar with the first three commandments), they somehow can't adopt basic, widely accepted social norms.😕 😕 😕

Jason Ortiz5 said:Man, you just don't get it... What would we even do with all those extra religion teachers? Where would they even work?

Not to mention how embarrassing that would be for the church itself... Totally unacceptable...

I actually had some American colleagues visiting the other day. Americans are EXTREMELY religious; they take that stuff very seriously.

But they were absolutely horrified by the mere idea of organizing religious education in our public schools—let alone when I told them about a few specific incidents (like a teacher tearing down displays the kids put up for Halloween etc).

I won't stick my nose where it doesn't belong, but they found the whole thing bizarre...

Jesse Cook4 said:I actually had some American colleagues visiting the other day. Americans are EXTREMELY religious; they take that stuff very seriously.

But they were absolutely horrified by the mere idea of organizing religious education in our public schools—let alone when I told them about a few specific incidents (like a teacher tearing down displays the kids put up for Halloween etc).

I won't stick my nose where it doesn't belong, but they found the whole thing bizarre...

I’ve got family living in the States, so I totally get where they're coming from. It feels like we have this knack for taking everything to an extreme or making it completely absurd. Usually both at the same time. ☕

Susan James said:Could you clarify what you meant by that sentence?

From what I understand about Catholicism, all the commandments are equally important
and they're all covered in religious education classes.

As for myself, everything except the ones specifically mentioning God actually aligns with the values I live by and pass on to others.
I'm not Catholic.

When it comes to what I expect from a school as an educational institution, I expect zero tolerance for violence, regardless of whether a person follows those first three Catholic commandments or not.
You mentioned that the other commandments can't be followed if the first three aren't, but in my world, that just isn't the case—and it shouldn't be that way in a school setting either. Your argument implies that if a child isn't baptized or doesn't attend religious ed (meaning they aren't familiar with the first three commandments), they somehow can't adopt basic, widely accepted social norms.😕 😕 😕

Look, I was primarily talking about Catholics who claim the label but act completely different...
And they're totally fine with it... like, "Yeah, call me Catholic, but I'm not really gonna act like one."
And if someone actually identifies as Catholic and respects the rest of the commandments—why on earth can't they respect the first three too?????
Most of these commandments are just fundamental moral standards that anyone should stick to...
But if you're actually Catholic, you should be following all ten...

Seriously... I just can't wrap my head around people calling themselves Catholic when everything seems to bother them...
From following the rules to having their kid go to religious ed but skipping Mass...

And then they have the nerve to get pissed off if a textbook mentions coming to church...

Come on... either commit to being Catholic or don't.

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Jason Ortiz5 said:When you've got kids, especially during those crazy teenage years, home life isn't the only thing shaping them. I'm not trying to excuse parents who say one thing but do another—which, let's face it, happens a lot—but I just wanted to bring up that old saying about how it takes a whole village to raise a child.
And since the whole argument for religious education is that it instills these specific "moral" values, then yeah, it's pretty clear it's failing its main mission.

You're kidding, right? Too many cooks in the kitchen just leads to a messed-up kid... especially once puberty hits.
Back in the day, maybe a hundred years ago, when everyone basically looked out for themselves and the church held way more sway over people than politics ever did, puberty was just about physical maturity. The whole concept of an "adolescent crisis" didn't even exist back then.

Plus, kids learn about morality throughout their entire education; you can't just single out religious studies because it doesn't sit well with your personal views.😁

And besides, if a subject's scheduled hours aren't enough for students to actually master the material, what do you do? You increase the class time, you don't just kick the subject out of the school entirely, 😉 because cutting it out is just going to trigger the exact opposite effect.

shadowcrane91 said:Look, I was primarily talking about Catholics who claim the label but act completely different...
And they're totally fine with it... like, "Yeah, call me Catholic, but I'm not really gonna act like one."
And if someone actually identifies as Catholic and respects the rest of the commandments—why on earth can't they respect the first three too?????
Most of these commandments are just fundamental moral standards that anyone should stick to...
But if you're actually Catholic, you should be following all ten...

Seriously... I just can't wrap my head around people calling themselves Catholic when everything seems to bother them...
From following the rules to having their kid go to religious ed but skipping Mass...

And then they have the nerve to get pissed off if a textbook mentions coming to church...

Come on... either commit to being Catholic or don't.

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They’ve got a reputation for being total hypocrites—only acting patriotic when there's money to be stolen from the state, only playing European when it's time to collect USA subsidies and benefits, and only acting Catholic when they need cover for their sins... etc., etc...
Just a weak, spineless bunch of peasants who couldn't wait to ditch the rules needed to run a modern society just so they could crawl back to their old ways: patriarchy, theft, hypocrisy, and fake morality...

Lawrence Torres56 said:You're kidding, right? Too many cooks in the kitchen just leads to a messed-up kid... especially once puberty hits.
Back in the day, maybe a hundred years ago, when everyone basically looked out for themselves and the church held way more sway over people than politics ever did, puberty was just about physical maturity. The whole concept of an "adolescent crisis" didn't even exist back then.

Plus, kids learn about morality throughout their entire education; you can't just single out religious studies because it doesn't sit well with your personal views.😁

And besides, if a subject's scheduled hours aren't enough for students to actually master the material, what do you do? You increase the class time, you don't just kick the subject out of the school entirely, 😉 because cutting it out is just going to trigger the exact opposite effect.

Religion is basically the very core of morality itself... 😵

Quincy:

"Whether you’re religious or not, decent people act right and jerks act like jerks. But for a good person to go out and commit an atrocity? That usually takes religion." Steven Weinberg

Lawrence Torres56 said:You're kidding, right? Too many cooks in the kitchen just leads to a messed-up kid... especially once puberty hits.
Back in the day, maybe a hundred years ago, when everyone basically looked out for themselves and the church held way more sway over people than politics ever did, puberty was just about physical maturity. The whole concept of an "adolescent crisis" didn't even exist back then.

Plus, kids learn about morality throughout their entire education; you can't just single out religious studies because it doesn't sit well with your personal views.😁

And besides, if a subject's scheduled hours aren't enough for students to actually master the material, what do you do? You increase the class time, you don't just kick the subject out of the school entirely, 😉 because cutting it out is just going to trigger the exact opposite effect.

First off, please explain to me how on earth you plan to limit or totally wipe out the influence of the media, schools, or peer groups on kids? What, by locking them up in a convent? When people claim things were "better back then," it's usually just selective memory. And hormones? Hormones have been a thing for the last 500 years too. Doesn't matter what the church or the old ladies at the grocery store say about it.

Can you actually point to what specific kind of morality is being taught in math, foreign languages, or computer science? Like, what, if you commit a sin before marriage, will your motherboard overheat?

shadowcrane91 said:Look, I was primarily talking about Catholics who claim the label but act completely different...
And they're totally fine with it... like, "Yeah, call me Catholic, but I'm not really gonna act like one."
And if someone actually identifies as Catholic and respects the rest of the commandments—why on earth can't they respect the first three too?????
Most of these commandments are just fundamental moral standards that anyone should stick to...
But if you're actually Catholic, you should be following all ten...

Seriously... I just can't wrap my head around people calling themselves Catholic when everything seems to bother them...
From following the rules to having their kid go to religious ed but skipping Mass...

And then they have the nerve to get pissed off if a textbook mentions coming to church...

Come on... either commit to being Catholic or don't.

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You didn't actually answer my question.
🥳

I'm not getting into the "why" behind parents enrolling kids in religion classes, or whether a Catholic is defined solely by attending Mass versus living by the moral values of the Ten Commandments while perhaps not attending church regularly (or at all).

I asked a very clear and direct question.
How is it possible for an entire class to take Catholic religious education, yet bullying in the classroom continues? How can violence increase after seven years of religious instruction, especially right before First Communion?
If it were just one student, that would be one thing, but we see this happening with at least one child per generation—if not per class—in every single school... so do the math.
It would be interesting to see the data on the kids causing trouble in middle school who have completed eight years of Catholic education and received every sacrament available to them.

If the argument is that these values are taught at home, then please, make sure those Catholic teachings actually stay within the family.
Thanks.

just because religion class is basically just there to pad everyone's GPA