Religion classes in school - Megathread

Susan James said:You didn't actually answer my question.
🥳

I'm not getting into the "why" behind parents enrolling kids in religion classes, or whether a Catholic is defined solely by attending Mass versus living by the moral values of the Ten Commandments while perhaps not attending church regularly (or at all).

I asked a very clear and direct question.
How is it possible for an entire class to take Catholic religious education, yet bullying in the classroom continues? How can violence increase after seven years of religious instruction, especially right before First Communion?
If it were just one student, that would be one thing, but we see this happening with at least one child per generation—if not per class—in every single school... so do the math.
It would be interesting to see the data on the kids causing trouble in middle school who have completed eight years of Catholic education and received every sacrament available to them.

If the argument is that these values are taught at home, then please, make sure those Catholic teachings actually stay within the family.
Thanks.

Do you actually have any proof for these claims of yours?

Or are you just trying to use religion to justify violence—using an elective subject as a way to wrap up bullies in cellophane and sell them to us as victims?

And hey, no offense intended... but seriously, violence comes from the home; it has nothing to do with faith or religious studies. Honestly, after reading a post like this, the only thing I can do as a decent human being is fight to make religious education mandatory, with strict grading criteria based on sincerity, honesty, and respect. Then, when some kid fails because they aren't living up to those standards, maybe their parents will finally take a hard look at how they're raising them. That way, the fake believers won't be able to hide behind their various masks anymore, and if people are going to criticize the church, at least let them do it for a legitimate reason.

Haha, oh, those "strict criteria" 😂
Seriously, though—go ahead and ask some of my fellow German teachers how many students they actually have left once they start enforcing those rigid standards. You know, when you expect someone to hit an "A" or a "B+" level, but their actual grasp of the language is... well, let's just say it's a struggle. 😂 And good luck trying to pull together enough elective groups from three different classes to even make a full section 🤣
Please, I’m begging you, start actually applying those strict rules 🍿

Susan James said:You didn't actually answer my question.
🥳

I'm not getting into the "why" behind parents enrolling kids in religion classes, or whether a Catholic is defined solely by attending Mass versus living by the moral values of the Ten Commandments while perhaps not attending church regularly (or at all).

I asked a very clear and direct question.
How is it possible for an entire class to take Catholic religious education, yet bullying in the classroom continues? How can violence increase after seven years of religious instruction, especially right before First Communion?
If it were just one student, that would be one thing, but we see this happening with at least one child per generation—if not per class—in every single school... so do the math.
It would be interesting to see the data on the kids causing trouble in middle school who have completed eight years of Catholic education and received every sacrament available to them.

If the argument is that these values are taught at home, then please, make sure those Catholic teachings actually stay within the family.
Thanks.

Yeah, well... it’s something you inherit from your family.
So, people are actually claiming that religious studies is the reason for all this violence? And now they want to scrap the whole subject entirely... Give me a break. Seriously?
You can't use religion class to unteach everything kids bring home from their families.

That’s exactly my point... religious educators can talk all they want about how great everything is, but if the kid and the family aren't actually living it at home, it’s all for nothing. What's even the point of them going to Sunday school if nobody is practicing what they preach?
I honestly don’t get it. Why do people even bother selling their souls in the name of being Catholic if they don't actually give a damn?
If they actually gave a damn about this stuff, none of this would be happening in the first place...
Honestly, religion class should just be reserved for the people who actually give a damn about it.
Religious education isn't going anywhere in our schools as long as 86% of people claim to be Catholic. I mean, let’s be real—it’s probably for the wrong reasons, but it's more than enough leverage for the Church to keep its foot in the door of the education system. When you've got that many massive Catholics backing them, they aren't going anywhere.

Whatever... the musicians can play their hearts out all they want, but it’s honestly pointless if that percentage on paper doesn't actually budge.

There’s going to be plenty of fighting over religion classes, and honestly, even without them... things are gonna get ugly.
Oh, sure, let’s just go ahead and blame religious education for everything a few bad apples do. Real logical.
Total absurdity... I mean, seriously though...

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Lawrence Torres56 said:Do you actually have any proof for these claims of yours?

Or are you just trying to use religion to justify violence—using an elective subject as a way to wrap up bullies in cellophane and sell them to us as victims?

And hey, no offense intended... but seriously, violence comes from the home; it has nothing to do with faith or religious studies. Honestly, after reading a post like this, the only thing I can do as a decent human being is fight to make religious education mandatory, with strict grading criteria based on sincerity, honesty, and respect. Then, when some kid fails because they aren't living up to those standards, maybe their parents will finally take a hard look at how they're raising them. That way, the fake believers won't be able to hide behind their various masks anymore, and if people are going to criticize the church, at least let them do it for a legitimate reason.

I hope you realize that things like honesty, integrity, and respect aren't really "educational metrics." Plus, those standards are incredibly subjective. You’d have to hold every single religious instructor to those exact same harsh standards first. And let me tell you, finding even one who passes that test would be harder than winning the Powerball. Only then could we even talk about making it a required subject for students with such intense grading.

Not to mention all the parents out there who would totally fail a test like that. Especially the ones who constantly brag about how much they value being righteous and fair.

I’m glad my kids can take both parish religion classes and school ones. It gives them a chance to pull from different perspectives and let the two programs complement each other. At my kids' school, they managed to schedule religion for either the first or last period, so there aren't any logistical headaches. Honestly, I think many local teachers provide a great service to the community by offering extra value beyond just the standard curriculum.

Jessica Kelly4 said:I’m glad my kids can take both parish religion classes and school ones. It gives them a chance to pull from different perspectives and let the two programs complement each other. At my kids' school, they managed to schedule religion for either the first or last period, so there aren't any logistical headaches. Honestly, I think many local teachers provide a great service to the community by offering extra value beyond just the standard curriculum.

Could you dive into that a bit more? Like, maybe share a specific example or something?

Seattle would be such a somber place without its teachers...
http://www.rijecanin.com/2016/11/14/...la-tuzni-grad/

Honestly, I gave up halfway through. There aren't even any real arguments about specific activities here (except for that bit about Memphis—but let's be real, everyone does that when they're just looking for some cheap self-promotion). The rest is just a massive pile of "look how great I am." It was a super boring read, btw.

Nancy Kelly31 said:Seattle would be such a somber place without its teachers...
http://www.rijecanin.com/2016/11/14/...la-tuzni-grad/

It really would. Honestly, plenty of people in Seattle feel that way regardless of how religious they actually are.
Even the mayor—it’s a shame he's using those teachers just to score political points before the election.

Lawrence Torres56 said:Do you actually have any proof for these claims of yours?

Or are you just trying to use religion to justify violence—using an elective subject as a way to wrap up bullies in cellophane and sell them to us as victims?

And hey, no offense intended... but seriously, violence comes from the home; it has nothing to do with faith or religious studies. Honestly, after reading a post like this, the only thing I can do as a decent human being is fight to make religious education mandatory, with strict grading criteria based on sincerity, honesty, and respect. Then, when some kid fails because they aren't living up to those standards, maybe their parents will finally take a hard look at how they're raising them. That way, the fake believers won't be able to hide behind their various masks anymore, and if people are going to criticize the church, at least let them do it for a legitimate reason.

How do you think I'll find proof?
You just look at the enrollment statistics for religious education classes per school (there are classrooms where it's 100% full) and compare that to the statistics on peer bullying.

I am not "wrapping anyone in packaging," so please don't twist my words or put things in my mouth that I didn't say.
I am not justifying any kind of violence through the existence of religious education, 😕, I am simply asking how it is possible that it exists in places where every single child attends those classes. 🤔

If religious education has zero impact (or a minimal one) on what children learn at home, then it's essentially useless.
It's just a waste of taxpayer money on salaries for religious instructors.

I've mentioned this several times before: parents can't teach their kids math or physics, so school is absolutely necessary for that kind of content.
But when it comes to what religion preaches—the most important stuff—parents can certainly do that themselves, provided they actually live out that faith.

If religious education fails to provide any moral guidance to a child who is already prone to violent behavior (meaning they aren't picking up anything new that they aren't already getting at home), then I really have to wonder: what is the point of teaching religious curriculum to religious people who are already learning all of this at home and at church on Sundays? 🤷

Susan James said:How do you think I'll find proof?
You just look at the enrollment statistics for religious education classes per school (there are classrooms where it's 100% full) and compare that to the statistics on peer bullying.

I am not "wrapping anyone in packaging," so please don't twist my words or put things in my mouth that I didn't say.
I am not justifying any kind of violence through the existence of religious education, 😕, I am simply asking how it is possible that it exists in places where every single child attends those classes. 🤔

If religious education has zero impact (or a minimal one) on what children learn at home, then it's essentially useless.
It's just a waste of taxpayer money on salaries for religious instructors.

I've mentioned this several times before: parents can't teach their kids math or physics, so school is absolutely necessary for that kind of content.
But when it comes to what religion preaches—the most important stuff—parents can certainly do that themselves, provided they actually live out that faith.

If religious education fails to provide any moral guidance to a child who is already prone to violent behavior (meaning they aren't picking up anything new that they aren't already getting at home), then I really have to wonder: what is the point of teaching religious curriculum to religious people who are already learning all of this at home and at church on Sundays? 🤷

Of course they can. They can just hire a tutor. Or pay for private school.

Publicly funded education, where everyone chips in through federal taxes, is just a social contract shaped by whoever holds political power at the time. It’s the same deal with religious studies in schools. As soon as the balance of power shifts, religious education goes. Maybe public schooling will eventually shift from a shared responsibility to a market-driven model too. Anything can happen.

Jessica Kelly4 said:Of course they can. They can just hire a tutor. Or pay for private school.

Publicly funded education, where everyone chips in through federal taxes, is just a social contract shaped by whoever holds political power at the time. It’s the same deal with religious studies in schools. As soon as the balance of power shifts, religious education goes. Maybe public schooling will eventually shift from a shared responsibility to a market-driven model too. Anything can happen.

So, what does "balance of power" actually mean here? Religious ed was brought back in through political horse-trading. If more than half the population had identified as atheists back then, those agreements with the Vatican would have been signed regardless—it simply would have suited the government of the day. All these attempts to justify having religion in the classroom by leaning on some big "traditional American values" thing are honestly just pretty silly.

Jason Ortiz5 said:So, what does "balance of power" actually mean here? Religious ed was brought back in through political horse-trading. If more than half the population had identified as atheists back then, those agreements with the Vatican would have been signed regardless—it simply would have suited the government of the day. All these attempts to justify having religion in the classroom by leaning on some big "traditional American values" thing are honestly just pretty silly.

So why is everyone blaming religious education for EVERYTHING???? Instead of blaming the government that actually put it there...
What exactly is the problem with it for you guys?

I honestly feel worse for the kids sitting through religion class when their whole family doesn't even live like that at home... they aren't even trying...
Since it's an option, I'm happy my kids attend...
If we were a different faith or if I just didn't care, they'd be going regardless, even if it meant having a gap in their schedule...

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shadowcrane91 said:So why is everyone blaming religious education for EVERYTHING???? Instead of blaming the government that actually put it there...
What exactly is the problem with it for you guys?

I honestly feel worse for the kids sitting through religion class when their whole family doesn't even live like that at home... they aren't even trying...
Since it's an option, I'm happy my kids attend...
If we were a different faith or if I just didn't care, they'd be going regardless, even if it meant having a gap in their schedule...

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Why blame the government? In an American representative democracy, politicians just follow the polls to grab votes. It’s flawed, sure, but it reflects the general consensus. If some group of politicians realizes they can win an election by cutting religious studies from schools, they’ll do it. That goes for everything—from job market trends to curriculum changes.

Alright... so now everyone’s just blaming religious studies for everything? Seriously?

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shadowcrane91 said:Alright... so now everyone’s just blaming religious studies for everything? Seriously?

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy J3 using the Reddit app

Ever heard of a "black legend"? The British Empire used that tactic all the time to smear their enemies. Take Spain, for example—it’s notorious for being a land of cruelty, but most people don't realize half those stories were just British propaganda. The Brits were pros at that game.

A similar strategy against the church and its influence started with German philosophers in the early 20th century (look up the Frankfurt School if you want). Religion, especially the Catholic Church, was branded as the ultimate enemy. That war hasn't stopped; it just moved into the media, academia, and politics. It's probably too much political theory for this thread, so I'll stop there. For most people on forums like this, attacking the church is just a lazy way to signal how progressive they are.

I can't believe I'm even seeing this username floating around here again. Honestly, what is the deal with some people? Is there a specific reason why certain handles just refuse to die out, or is it just some weird cosmic joke being played on us all? Seriously, it’s like looking at a ghost from a thread that should have been buried months ago. Why does it feel like we're constantly tripping over the same old relics? kaže:
So, what exactly do you think I've got sitting around here? You really believe I'm just out here making stuff up for the hell of it, or do you actually think I have some kind of hard evidence to back this up?
So, you take a look at the enrollment numbers for religious education classes across different school districts—I mean, you’ve got certain classrooms where the attendance is sitting at a perfect 100%—and then you lay that right next to the statistics on peer-to-peer bullying and violence in those same schools... doesn't that just make you wonder what kind of connection is actually hiding in plain sight?

Look, I’m not some fragile little thing that needs to be wrapped in bubble wrap, okay? Please, just stop twisting my words around and putting things in my mouth that I never actually said.
Look, I’m not saying that having religious studies in our schools gives anyone a free pass to act out or get violent—I'm absolutely not justifying any kind of violence just because religion exists in the classroom. 😕I mean, I’m just sitting here scratching my head, trying to wrap my mind around how on earth that’s even possible, you know? Like, how does someone even end up in a spot like that, especially when it's a place where every single kid in town is heading off to their religious studies classes? It just doesn't add up, does it? 🤔

Look, if religious studies aren't actually having any real impact—and I mean zero, or at least pretty damn close to it—on what kids are learning once they get home, then why are we even bothering? If it’s just some isolated thing that doesn't connect to anything else in their lives, isn't it basically just useless filler?
Honestly, it’s just a massive, blatant waste of taxpayer money to be lining the pockets of these high-priced consultants, isn't it? Just throwing hard-earned cash down the drain to pay for people who basically exist just to tell us what we already know.

Look, I feel like I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve laid this out right here, but honestly, can we just finally admit it? Parents—no matter how much they love their kids or how smart they think they are—just aren't equipped to teach high-level math or physics at home. It’s just not happening. You can try to sit there with a textbook and some coffee, but when you get into the heavy stuff, you're basically flying blind, right? That’s exactly why schools exist in the first place. We need specialized teachers and actual classrooms for this kind of content because, let’s face it, trying to DIY a calculus curriculum is just a recipe for frustration for everyone involved.
I mean, let’s be real for a second—if someone is actually preaching religion, they should at least have the decency to follow through on the most important part, right? It’s one thing to spout all those lofty ideals and moral lessons from a pulpit, but if you aren't actually living out that faith in your day-to-day life, isn't the whole thing just kind of hollow? Like, what's the point of talking a big game about devotion if your actions don't back it up when it actually matters?

If religious education doesn't actually have any kind of moral impact on a kid who’s already wired for aggressive behavior—you know, if they just end up picking up bad habits that their family couldn't even drill into them—then I really have to wonder: what's even the point? Like, seriously, what's the actual purpose of sitting through all those lessons on religious doctrine for kids who are already part of faith-based families? If they're already getting everything they need from their parents at home and then heading off to church every Sunday, isn't all that extra schoolwork just redundant? 🤷

Look, for an accusation that malicious, I’m gonna need to see some actual, credible proof before I even consider buying into it...
Statistics aren't exactly your best friend here, are they? I mean, if you look at the raw numbers, someone’s over there just gnawing on a plain piece of Wonder Bread while another person is sitting pretty with a plate full of high-end prosciutto, but according to the math, everyone's out here enjoying a perfectly balanced, gourmet deli sandwich. It's kind of ridiculous when you actually think about it, right?

Look, I’m sorry, but what am I even tripping over here? Seriously, just take another look at what you actually wrote and you'll see exactly where you're coming from... it’s just so... I don't know, off. Are we really going to go around throwing shade at religion classes just to provide some kind of convenient cover for bullies and school violence? Is that really the angle we're taking now?😢
Wait, how on earth is that even possible? You actually got an answer from me already? Seriously? Well, fine, if you really need me to go over it all again, I’ll just repeat myself for you—I guess I don't have much of a choice, right?
You know those types of people—the ones who are just straight-up toxic and live for the drama? The kind of folks who basically survive on nothing but lies and spreading rumors? It’s honestly pathetic. They’ll go out of their way to sign their kids up for religious education classes at school, even though they don't believe in any of it and couldn't care less about faith if their lives depended on it. Why do they do it? Because it gives them all this juicy little ammunition to gossip about and use as fuel for their endless, petty little schemes.

Look, you know this is true just as well as everyone else on this board does, but I guess it’s just too damn hard for people to actually admit it out loud, isn't it? The real issue here isn't some debate over religious studies or theology; the actual problem is the ideology driving the whole thing. We've reached this point where it's apparently "better" to let some aggressor off the hook—someone who's perfectly fine giving us a metaphorical spanking if it keeps the peace—than to actually stand up and allow someone who isn't bothering anyone at all to just live their life exactly how they want to? It's wild, really.

Look, before you go jumping down anyone's throat or passing judgment on what’s actually worth what, just do me a favor and check out these links, alright? Seriously, take a second to read through them first so you actually know what we're dealing with before you start throwing accusations around.
http://www.os-pkanavelica-korcula.sk.../vjeronauk.pdf

I was just digging through this PDF link—it’s basically a breakdown of the grading criteria for these school assignments—and honestly, looking at all these specific requirements makes me wonder if we’re actually teaching kids how to think or just training them to be world-class bureaucrats? I mean, you look at the way they weigh certain rubric points versus others, and it feels like there's more emphasis on following the exact formatting structure than actually having an original thought, doesn't it? It’s that classic academic trap where if you nail the font size and the margin width, you get the A, even if your actual argument is a bit thin. Does anyone else feel like this kind of rigid standardization is kind of killing the creative spark in the classroom before it even has a chance to catch fire? It’s such a heavy lift for students to juggle all these technicalities on top of the actual subject matter.

I mean, seriously, what’s stopping a parent from just sitting down and teaching their kid some physics or math? Is there some unwritten rule out there that says you need a PhD from MIT just to explain basic algebra or how gravity works? Honestly, I don't see the problem. If you've got the patience and you actually know your stuff, why shouldn't you be the one guiding them through it? It’s kind of wild to think that we assume only a classroom setting counts as "real" learning, right? 🤷 I mean, look, the guy actually went through the whole grind and finished his degree, right? He put in all those hours, hit the books, survived the exams—so he’s clearly got some actual knowledge under his belt. It's not like he just woke up one day knowing how things work; he actually did the work.
Look, if you skipped out on religion class back in school, don't expect to be sitting in the pews on Sunday morning... I mean, honestly, does it even matter if they know a single thing about faith at this point?
So, what’s the move here? Are we really going to strip this guy of his rights just because you or some other random person finds religious studies a bit too much to stomach? Is that how we're playing it now?

Lawrence Torres56 said:

I can't believe I'm even seeing this username floating around here again. Honestly, what is the deal with some people? Is there a specific reason why certain handles just refuse to die out, or is it just some weird cosmic joke being played on us all? Seriously, it’s like looking at a ghost from a thread that should have been buried months ago. Why does it feel like we're constantly tripping over the same old relics? kaže:
So, what exactly do you think I've got sitting around here? You really believe I'm just out here making stuff up for the hell of it, or do you actually think I have some kind of hard evidence to back this up?
So, you take a look at the enrollment numbers for religious education classes across different school districts—I mean, you’ve got certain classrooms where the attendance is sitting at a perfect 100%—and then you lay that right next to the statistics on peer-to-peer bullying and violence in those same schools... doesn't that just make you wonder what kind of connection is actually hiding in plain sight?

Look, I’m not some fragile little thing that needs to be wrapped in bubble wrap, okay? Please, just stop twisting my words around and putting things in my mouth that I never actually said.
Look, I’m not saying that having religious studies in our schools gives anyone a free pass to act out or get violent—I'm absolutely not justifying any kind of violence just because religion exists in the classroom. 😕I mean, I’m just sitting here scratching my head, trying to wrap my mind around how on earth that’s even possible, you know? Like, how does someone even end up in a spot like that, especially when it's a place where every single kid in town is heading off to their religious studies classes? It just doesn't add up, does it? 🤔

Look, if religious studies aren't actually having any real impact—and I mean zero, or at least pretty damn close to it—on what kids are learning once they get home, then why are we even bothering? If it’s just some isolated thing that doesn't connect to anything else in their lives, isn't it basically just useless filler?
Honestly, it’s just a massive, blatant waste of taxpayer money to be lining the pockets of these high-priced consultants, isn't it? Just throwing hard-earned cash down the drain to pay for people who basically exist just to tell us what we already know.

Look, I feel like I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve laid this out right here, but honestly, can we just finally admit it? Parents—no matter how much they love their kids or how smart they think they are—just aren't equipped to teach high-level math or physics at home. It’s just not happening. You can try to sit there with a textbook and some coffee, but when you get into the heavy stuff, you're basically flying blind, right? That’s exactly why schools exist in the first place. We need specialized teachers and actual classrooms for this kind of content because, let’s face it, trying to DIY a calculus curriculum is just a recipe for frustration for everyone involved.
I mean, let’s be real for a second—if someone is actually preaching religion, they should at least have the decency to follow through on the most important part, right? It’s one thing to spout all those lofty ideals and moral lessons from a pulpit, but if you aren't actually living out that faith in your day-to-day life, isn't the whole thing just kind of hollow? Like, what's the point of talking a big game about devotion if your actions don't back it up when it actually matters?

If religious education doesn't actually have any kind of moral impact on a kid who’s already wired for aggressive behavior—you know, if they just end up picking up bad habits that their family couldn't even drill into them—then I really have to wonder: what's even the point? Like, seriously, what's the actual purpose of sitting through all those lessons on religious doctrine for kids who are already part of faith-based families? If they're already getting everything they need from their parents at home and then heading off to church every Sunday, isn't all that extra schoolwork just redundant? 🤷

Look, for an accusation that malicious, I’m gonna need to see some actual, credible proof before I even consider buying into it...
Statistics aren't exactly your best friend here, are they? I mean, if you look at the raw numbers, someone’s over there just gnawing on a plain piece of Wonder Bread while another person is sitting pretty with a plate full of high-end prosciutto, but according to the math, everyone's out here enjoying a perfectly balanced, gourmet deli sandwich. It's kind of ridiculous when you actually think about it, right?

Look, I’m sorry, but what am I even tripping over here? Seriously, just take another look at what you actually wrote and you'll see exactly where you're coming from... it’s just so... I don't know, off. Are we really going to go around throwing shade at religion classes just to provide some kind of convenient cover for bullies and school violence? Is that really the angle we're taking now?😢
Wait, how on earth is that even possible? You actually got an answer from me already? Seriously? Well, fine, if you really need me to go over it all again, I’ll just repeat myself for you—I guess I don't have much of a choice, right?
You know those types of people—the ones who are just straight-up toxic and live for the drama? The kind of folks who basically survive on nothing but lies and spreading rumors? It’s honestly pathetic. They’ll go out of their way to sign their kids up for religious education classes at school, even though they don't believe in any of it and couldn't care less about faith if their lives depended on it. Why do they do it? Because it gives them all this juicy little ammunition to gossip about and use as fuel for their endless, petty little schemes.

Look, you know this is true just as well as everyone else on this board does, but I guess it’s just too damn hard for people to actually admit it out loud, isn't it? The real issue here isn't some debate over religious studies or theology; the actual problem is the ideology driving the whole thing. We've reached this point where it's apparently "better" to let some aggressor off the hook—someone who's perfectly fine giving us a metaphorical spanking if it keeps the peace—than to actually stand up and allow someone who isn't bothering anyone at all to just live their life exactly how they want to? It's wild, really.

Look, before you go jumping down anyone's throat or passing judgment on what’s actually worth what, just do me a favor and check out these links, alright? Seriously, take a second to read through them first so you actually know what we're dealing with before you start throwing accusations around.
http://www.os-pkanavelica-korcula.sk.../vjeronauk.pdf

I was just digging through this PDF link—it’s basically a breakdown of the grading criteria for these school assignments—and honestly, looking at all these specific requirements makes me wonder if we’re actually teaching kids how to think or just training them to be world-class bureaucrats? I mean, you look at the way they weigh certain rubric points versus others, and it feels like there's more emphasis on following the exact formatting structure than actually having an original thought, doesn't it? It’s that classic academic trap where if you nail the font size and the margin width, you get the A, even if your actual argument is a bit thin. Does anyone else feel like this kind of rigid standardization is kind of killing the creative spark in the classroom before it even has a chance to catch fire? It’s such a heavy lift for students to juggle all these technicalities on top of the actual subject matter.

I mean, seriously, what’s stopping a parent from just sitting down and teaching their kid some physics or math? Is there some unwritten rule out there that says you need a PhD from MIT just to explain basic algebra or how gravity works? Honestly, I don't see the problem. If you've got the patience and you actually know your stuff, why shouldn't you be the one guiding them through it? It’s kind of wild to think that we assume only a classroom setting counts as "real" learning, right? 🤷 I mean, look, the guy actually went through the whole grind and finished his degree, right? He put in all those hours, hit the books, survived the exams—so he’s clearly got some actual knowledge under his belt. It's not like he just woke up one day knowing how things work; he actually did the work.
Look, if you skipped out on religion class back in school, don't expect to be sitting in the pews on Sunday morning... I mean, honestly, does it even matter if they know a single thing about faith at this point?
So, what’s the move here? Are we really going to strip this guy of his rights just because you or some other random person finds religious studies a bit too much to stomach? Is that how we're playing it now?

Religion is complicated. Beyond just faith, you've got politics, culture, and identity all tangled up in there. I sometimes wish we could just strip it back to basics, but that’s not happening—too much baggage accumulated over the last two millennia. No one gets to judge someone else's motives. Besides, faith and organized religion aren't even the same thing. Even if "religious education" sounds like it's about faith, it's mostly just tied to the institution.

Susan James said:How do you think I'll find proof?
You just look at the enrollment statistics for religious education classes per school (there are classrooms where it's 100% full) and compare that to the statistics on peer bullying.

I am not "wrapping anyone in packaging," so please don't twist my words or put things in my mouth that I didn't say.
I am not justifying any kind of violence through the existence of religious education, 😕, I am simply asking how it is possible that it exists in places where every single child attends those classes. 🤔

If religious education has zero impact (or a minimal one) on what children learn at home, then it's essentially useless.
It's just a waste of taxpayer money on salaries for religious instructors.

I've mentioned this several times before: parents can't teach their kids math or physics, so school is absolutely necessary for that kind of content.
But when it comes to what religion preaches—the most important stuff—parents can certainly do that themselves, provided they actually live out that faith.

If religious education fails to provide any moral guidance to a child who is already prone to violent behavior (meaning they aren't picking up anything new that they aren't already getting at home), then I really have to wonder: what is the point of teaching religious curriculum to religious people who are already learning all of this at home and at church on Sundays? 🤷

How is that even possible????
It's simple—because what they're learning at home and what they're learning in Sunday school aren't even on the same page...
The kid goes to class just to check a box, not because they actually live in an environment that reflects those values....
Why on earth would you expect a kid to take those teachings seriously when their own family acts completely contrary to everything they're being taught? If the people closest to them don't follow the rules, why should they?
What's the point of teaching them anything if they're never going to apply it in their actual lives? They won't, especially if their parents aren't walking the walk either.

So yeah, I really don't get why anyone is acting shocked or comparing religious ed to violence.....

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Jesse Cook4 said:I actually had some American colleagues visiting the other day. Americans are EXTREMELY religious; they take that stuff very seriously.

But they were absolutely horrified by the mere idea of organizing religious education in our public schools—let alone when I told them about a few specific incidents (like a teacher tearing down displays the kids put up for Halloween etc).

I won't stick my nose where it doesn't belong, but they found the whole thing bizarre...

Ripped it down??? He probably just took them down, honestly I'm not even surprised. Religion class and Halloween?
Since when do those two things go together in any Catholic community in America????
Teaching about God while celebrating witches????

And then—the religion teacher removes a Halloween poster....
The same guy who's supposed to be teaching these kids to follow God instead of witches????
Oh no..... what a tragedy he's caused......

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