Russia's invasion of Ukraine: Part 5

Ukrainians already made a massive blunder when they gave up their nukes just to spite Russia.

The only way out of this mess is to completely clear the Russian army out of Ukraine and cut all ties with Russian influence. Anything else is just a defeat that brings us right back to square one, which basically guarantees more wars down the road. It’s like what would have happened in the US if we hadn't dealt with the occupiers—kind of like how things are looking in Canada today, where they're basically spiraling back into the nineties because they haven't cleaned out the politicians from that era.

Arthur Miller7 said:And who exactly is going to guarantee that neutrality? You, feralpilot0? Some random guy on an internet forum? Give me a break. There aren't any deals, signatures, or shady backroom handshakes with the Russians happening anymore. Those days are long gone.

Nothing is "gone"—if anything, this current mess is actually the worst-case scenario for Ukraine itself.

If we're talking about a neutral state, how does that even work when Turkey acts as the guarantor for grain exports?
A solid agreement would always be better than this chaos we're seeing now.

urbanotter said:Gerhard Schröder has put forward a very solid proposal that I suspect Putin would actually be willing to accept

Schröder suggested that solutions for major sticking points, such as Crimea, could eventually emerge over time—not necessarily taking 99 years like they did in Hong Kong, but perhaps within the next generation. He proposed that instead of joining NATO, Ukraine could opt for an armed neutrality, much like the model used by Austria.

The future of the Donbas region in eastern Ukraine, which remains a central theater of intense fighting, would likely prove far more complicated to navigate, though.

"We will need to find a solution based on the Swiss cantonal model," he remarked, adding that it remains to be seen whether Putin will return to the previous "contact line" established during ceasefires.

Honestly, this is more than what Ukraine could reasonably expect to gain once all this destruction and loss of life finally settles. I can't help but think they might end up in a position similar to how America operated—playing both sides to secure various concessions or incentives so they wouldn't have to sink so much capital into massive military spending.
As for the Donbas, they could aim for a status similar to Switzerland, which has maintained long-term peace and boasts one of the highest standards of living in the world.

The whole county-based model would basically be a massive win for Russia.

feralpilot0 said:The Ukrainians would need to start thinking for themselves if they wanted to take it—but they’re essentially hostages to the US agenda now, caught in a trap of hostility that stretches far beyond their own borders.

The US isn't about to just hand over its golden goose to some neutral party, is it?

Come on, don't talk nonsense. What "trap" by the USA? Did the USA attack Ukraine or did Russia?

I mean, the solution to ending the war is just for Putin to pull his troops out. It's pretty simple, really.

Melissa Rivera5 said:The whole county-based model would basically be a massive win for Russia.

Come on, don't talk nonsense. What "trap" by the USA? Did the USA attack Ukraine or did Russia?

I mean, the solution to ending the war is just for Putin to pull his troops out. It's pretty simple, really.

The US has done everything possible to orchestrate this conflict—all while riding the wave of being "protectors" who will eventually bleed the client dry, both figuratively and literally. There are no good guys here.
If the Ukrainians don't come to their senses soon, the whole thing is going to hell.

They're receiving billions in weapons and logistics—believe me, that isn't coming from the goodness of anyone's heart.

feralpilot0 said:Nothing is "gone"—if anything, this current mess is actually the worst-case scenario for Ukraine itself.

If we're talking about a neutral state, how does that even work when Turkey acts as the guarantor for grain exports?
A solid agreement would always be better than this chaos we're seeing now.

But what does someone being a "guarantor" on paper even mean? Like, does a similar agreement from Budapest exist? And hey, get this—Russia was a signatory to that one too, and now they’re the aggressor. Just to make it easy for you: let’s say some deal like this gets signed, and four years from now, the Russians claim they have "proof" that NATO is shipping weapons into Ukraine. Then they launch a whole new "special operation," threatening that anyone who steps in will be treated as an attack on Russia, triggering nuclear weapons. You familiar with that move? In that case, what exactly is your Turkey going to do?

feralpilot0 said:The Ukrainians would need to start thinking for themselves if they wanted to take it—but they’re essentially hostages to the US agenda now, caught in a trap of hostility that stretches far beyond their own borders.

The US isn't about to just hand over its golden goose to some neutral party, is it?

Just admit that Putin totally screwed up his math with the invasion of Ukraine.
He dragged both Russia and Ukraine into this endless spiral of war, sanctions, and pure chaos.
Tens of thousands are dead because some old fossil thought he was some kind of legend destined to restore Russian glory. Honestly, if Putin had even a shred of common sense or a conscience left, he’d have taken himself out of the equation entirely—which would have been a massive favor to the rest of the world, especially to Russia itself.

Arthur Miller7 said:But what does someone being a "guarantor" on paper even mean? Like, does a similar agreement from Budapest exist? And hey, get this—Russia was a signatory to that one too, and now they’re the aggressor. Just to make it easy for you: let’s say some deal like this gets signed, and four years from now, the Russians claim they have "proof" that NATO is shipping weapons into Ukraine. Then they launch a whole new "special operation," threatening that anyone who steps in will be treated as an attack on Russia, triggering nuclear weapons. You familiar with that move? In that case, what exactly is your Turkey going to do?

Well, an agreement only works if both sides actually bother to follow it—isn't that the whole point of mutual security?
You can't sign a non-aggression pact and then turn around and play host to an armory behind everyone's back—can you?
Or do you actually believe Russia launched an invasion just because they woke up on the wrong side of the bed one morning?

"Quote:"

gentlestag15 Asks: Just admit it—Putin completely miscalculated his gamble with the invasion of Ukraine, didn't he? He’s dragged both Russia and Ukraine into this endless spiral of war, sanctions, and sheer instability—is there even an exit strategy? Thousands are dying because some old fossil thinks he’s some kind of Napoleon—someone destined to restore Russia's glory—when in reality, if Putin had even a shred of common sense or a conscience, he’d jump from a fifth-story window... which would honestly be doing the rest of the world, and especially Russia, a massive favor.

Of course—all we’re missing now is a photo of Putin sporting that ridiculous Hitler mustache... wouldn't that just complete the look?

urbanotter said:Gerhard Schröder has put forward a very solid proposal that I suspect Putin would actually be willing to accept

Schröder suggested that solutions for major sticking points, such as Crimea, could eventually emerge over time—not necessarily taking 99 years like they did in Hong Kong, but perhaps within the next generation. He proposed that instead of joining NATO, Ukraine could opt for an armed neutrality, much like the model used by Austria.

The future of the Donbas region in eastern Ukraine, which remains a central theater of intense fighting, would likely prove far more complicated to navigate, though.

"We will need to find a solution based on the Swiss cantonal model," he remarked, adding that it remains to be seen whether Putin will return to the previous "contact line" established during ceasefires.

Honestly, this is more than what Ukraine could reasonably expect to gain once all this destruction and loss of life finally settles. I can't help but think they might end up in a position similar to how America operated—playing both sides to secure various concessions or incentives so they wouldn't have to sink so much capital into massive military spending.
As for the Donbas, they could aim for a status similar to Switzerland, which has maintained long-term peace and boasts one of the highest standards of living in the world.

Losa, the Switzerland comparison is a stretch. Remember when people said Canada would be organized like Switzerland? It’d probably be better if they compared them to Canada—though even that is being too kind, considering their neighbors are Russians.

feralpilot0 said:Well, an agreement only works if both sides actually bother to follow it—isn't that the whole point of mutual security?
You can't sign a non-aggression pact and then turn around and play host to an armory behind everyone's back—can you?
Or do you actually believe Russia launched an invasion just because they woke up on the wrong side of the bed one morning?

"Quote:"

gentlestag15 Asks: Just admit it—Putin completely miscalculated his gamble with the invasion of Ukraine, didn't he? He’s dragged both Russia and Ukraine into this endless spiral of war, sanctions, and sheer instability—is there even an exit strategy? Thousands are dying because some old fossil thinks he’s some kind of Napoleon—someone destined to restore Russia's glory—when in reality, if Putin had even a shred of common sense or a conscience, he’d jump from a fifth-story window... which would honestly be doing the rest of the world, and especially Russia, a massive favor.

Of course—all we’re missing now is a photo of Putin sporting that ridiculous Hitler mustache... wouldn't that just complete the look?

Russia attacked because it's a dictatorship run by Putin, who's basically just on some massive ego trip.
With people like that, there's just no such thing as a real deal.

I guess I should probably mention that...

feralpilot0 said:The US has done everything possible to orchestrate this conflict—all while riding the wave of being "protectors" who will eventually bleed the client dry, both figuratively and literally. There are no good guys here.
If the Ukrainians don't come to their senses soon, the whole thing is going to hell.

They're receiving billions in weapons and logistics—believe me, that isn't coming from the goodness of anyone's heart.

Grow up. Honestly, Ukraine hasn't done anything that actually justifies a full-scale invasion... I guess those stories are just for kids.
Russian logic is basically just... "it’s mine, it belongs to me, and if I want to screw it, I will—whether she likes it or not. And if anyone else touches it, I'll kill them." It's like, "she was raped because she said no, but I told her I was going to do it anyway, so really, it wasn't even an issue." I guess that's just how they see things. Maybe? Just feels pretty messed up.

Honestly, I’d probably suggest you cut back on reading Informer and those other trashy tabloids. They're just... I don't know, kind of degenerate sources if you ask me. Maybe try finding something a bit more reliable? Just a thought.

Arthur Miller7 said:But what does someone being a "guarantor" on paper even mean? Like, does a similar agreement from Budapest exist? And hey, get this—Russia was a signatory to that one too, and now they’re the aggressor. Just to make it easy for you: let’s say some deal like this gets signed, and four years from now, the Russians claim they have "proof" that NATO is shipping weapons into Ukraine. Then they launch a whole new "special operation," threatening that anyone who steps in will be treated as an attack on Russia, triggering nuclear weapons. You familiar with that move? In that case, what exactly is your Turkey going to do?

So, they just signed those grain export guarantees, right? And then, like, literally the next day, they go and bomb the port. I guess that’s just how things work lately.

feralpilot0 said:Well, an agreement only works if both sides actually bother to follow it—isn't that the whole point of mutual security?
You can't sign a non-aggression pact and then turn around and play host to an armory behind everyone's back—can you?
Or do you actually believe Russia launched an invasion just because they woke up on the wrong side of the bed one morning?

"Quote:"

gentlestag15 Asks: Just admit it—Putin completely miscalculated his gamble with the invasion of Ukraine, didn't he? He’s dragged both Russia and Ukraine into this endless spiral of war, sanctions, and sheer instability—is there even an exit strategy? Thousands are dying because some old fossil thinks he’s some kind of Napoleon—someone destined to restore Russia's glory—when in reality, if Putin had even a shred of common sense or a conscience, he’d jump from a fifth-story window... which would honestly be doing the rest of the world, and especially Russia, a massive favor.

Of course—all we’re missing now is a photo of Putin sporting that ridiculous Hitler mustache... wouldn't that just complete the look?

Exactly what I'm saying! Seriously, where's the proof of these bio-labs? Or those NATO missile bases capable of hitting Moscow? And wait a sec—those kinds of missiles were already sitting right there in Europe!! We don't even need Ukraine! It's not the Middle Ages; we aren't sending cavalry charging toward Moscow just because a neighboring country is involved. And man, I see you're one of those people who actually buys into this whole "virus from Ukraine" nonsense that's supposedly designed to kill only Russians and nobody else… how am I even supposed to argue with someone like that? Your level of imagination is so wild even Spielberg couldn't script it.

Melissa Rivera5 said:I guess I should probably mention that...

Grow up. Honestly, Ukraine hasn't done anything that actually justifies a full-scale invasion... I guess those stories are just for kids.
Russian logic is basically just... "it’s mine, it belongs to me, and if I want to screw it, I will—whether she likes it or not. And if anyone else touches it, I'll kill them." It's like, "she was raped because she said no, but I told her I was going to do it anyway, so really, it wasn't even an issue." I guess that's just how they see things. Maybe? Just feels pretty messed up.

Honestly, I’d probably suggest you cut back on reading Informer and those other trashy tabloids. They're just... I don't know, kind of degenerate sources if you ask me. Maybe try finding something a bit more reliable? Just a thought.

So, they just signed those grain export guarantees, right? And then, like, literally the next day, they go and bomb the port. I guess that’s just how things work lately.

So, we're really using playground logic here? Reducing a powerful neighboring nation to some helpless child just so you can lecture someone else about "growing up"?

feralpilot0 said:

So, we're really using playground logic here? Reducing a powerful neighboring nation to some helpless child just so you can lecture someone else about "growing up"?
So, we're really using playground logic here? Reducing a powerful neighboring nation to some helpless child just so you can lecture someone else about "growing up"?
I mean, all the Russian arguments are total nursery school nonsense too, and honestly, my analogy holds water. It starts with them claiming Ukraine isn't even a real nation—denying their language and their people exist—and goes all the way to grown men talking about drugged-up super soldiers who supposedly had their morals wiped out just to kill better, or those supposed drug gangs in Kyiv and all that. Forget about NATO or the USA... the truth is simpler. Russia just wants territory, they don't recognize that UA even exists, and that’s really it.

feralpilot0 said:Well, an agreement only works if both sides actually bother to follow it—isn't that the whole point of mutual security?
You can't sign a non-aggression pact and then turn around and play host to an armory behind everyone's back—can you?
Or do you actually believe Russia launched an invasion just because they woke up on the wrong side of the bed one morning?

"Quote:"

gentlestag15 Asks: Just admit it—Putin completely miscalculated his gamble with the invasion of Ukraine, didn't he? He’s dragged both Russia and Ukraine into this endless spiral of war, sanctions, and sheer instability—is there even an exit strategy? Thousands are dying because some old fossil thinks he’s some kind of Napoleon—someone destined to restore Russia's glory—when in reality, if Putin had even a shred of common sense or a conscience, he’d jump from a fifth-story window... which would honestly be doing the rest of the world, and especially Russia, a massive favor.

Of course—all we’re missing now is a photo of Putin sporting that ridiculous Hitler mustache... wouldn't that just complete the look?

It’s pretty obvious Putin laid out his whole playbook right before the invasion kicked off.
Were you even paying attention?
All that stuff about Kyiv being part of some old empire, claiming Ukrainians are basically Little Russians and aren't even a real nation—that was all spelled out.

"Wait, what?"

feralpilot0 said:

So, we're really using playground logic here? Reducing a powerful neighboring nation to some helpless child just so you can lecture someone else about "growing up"?
So, we're really using playground logic here? Reducing a powerful neighboring nation to some helpless child just so you can lecture someone else about "growing up"?

Melissa Rivera5 said:So, we're really using playground logic here? Reducing a powerful neighboring nation to some helpless child just so you can lecture someone else about "growing up"?

I mean, all the Russian arguments are total nursery school nonsense too, and honestly, my analogy holds water. It starts with them claiming Ukraine isn't even a real nation—denying their language and their people exist—and goes all the way to grown men talking about drugged-up super soldiers who supposedly had their morals wiped out just to kill better, or those supposed drug gangs in Kyiv and all that. Forget about NATO or the USA... the truth is simpler. Russia just wants territory, they don't recognize that UA even exists, and that’s really it.
The analogy holds water. Even Putin went as far as comparing Ukraine to a woman who's been raped.

Putin resorted to quoting song lyrics about rape and necrophilia just to justify Russia's demands from Ukraine. "Whether you like it or don't like it, bear with it, my beauty," Putin said. Unbelievable.
(Source.)

feralpilot0 said:Nah, look—there are viruses that jump to animals first, then eventually hit humans because everything is just too close for comfort—think Mad Cow, bird flu, or even those nasty SARS variations we’ve all been dealing with for the last couple of years.

You gotta start negotiating for your own sake—to save the infrastructure and, most importantly, to save humanity.
And seriously, "negotiation in wartime" isn't some weird myth people make up—get over those ridiculous biases already.
People have been fighting wars for 10,000 years.

Aha, but circling back to the virus thing—is there like some kind of sensor that trips when it crosses the border? Like, you tell them to go ahead and head into Russia, but they aren't allowed to come back into Ukraine or the USA?

feralpilot0 said:Well, an agreement only works if both sides actually bother to follow it—isn't that the whole point of mutual security?
You can't sign a non-aggression pact and then turn around and play host to an armory behind everyone's back—can you?
Or do you actually believe Russia launched an invasion just because they woke up on the wrong side of the bed one morning?

"Quote:"

gentlestag15 Asks: Just admit it—Putin completely miscalculated his gamble with the invasion of Ukraine, didn't he? He’s dragged both Russia and Ukraine into this endless spiral of war, sanctions, and sheer instability—is there even an exit strategy? Thousands are dying because some old fossil thinks he’s some kind of Napoleon—someone destined to restore Russia's glory—when in reality, if Putin had even a shred of common sense or a conscience, he’d jump from a fifth-story window... which would honestly be doing the rest of the world, and especially Russia, a massive favor.

Of course—all we’re missing now is a photo of Putin sporting that ridiculous Hitler mustache... wouldn't that just complete the look?

Honestly, a picture isn't even necessary. Everything is perfectly clear without needing any visual aids at all.☕

I mean, do you just infect a single cow with mad cow disease or some kind of foot-and-mouth thing and then send it sprinting toward Russia since they’re right there? Because let's be honest, cows can bolt like rabbits when they get going...
Forget about one cow... you'd need to toss a few thousand of them into the mix just to be absolutely certain you aren't leaving any room for error when it comes to spreading the contagion 😵

I mean, those Ukrainians are so advanced they basically turned Mad Cow disease from a prion issue into some kind of viral thing. If that doesn't earn them a Nobel, I don't know what will. It honestly feels like Russia attacked them just to get their hands on that tech... it’s gotta be something pretty intense, right?

It’s a relief we shut down Immunology; otherwise, we could have easily ended up in the crosshairs ourselves because of an institution like that.