Russia's invasion of Ukraine: Part 5

Donna Wells2 said:You made some excellent points, and I agree with you on almost everything.👍
But we shouldn't assume the Russian people are always exactly what their leaders claim them to be... we have to remember 1917, when the people staged a revolution so massive that its echoes are still felt today.
That's why you should never underestimate the will of a people... because once they finally snap, they break everything in their path.

Someone eventually has to lead the charge into revolution. 1917 serves as a stark reminder that the motivations driving people against an established regime aren't always rooted in high morality.
The Taliban takeover—by our standards here in the West—is a regression for Afghanistan. They will likely realize this eventually, though it may take considerable time. It is quite possible that such a realization will arrive sooner and more profoundly if it comes from within, rather than being forced upon them through foreign occupation.
A similar process unfolded in Iran, though the Pahlavi dynasty certainly ruled with a heavy hand via their secret police, which served as the primary catalyst for the uprising.
Almost every revolution triggers a short-term societal regression, simply because an entire order must be dismantled. The real danger lies in those revolutions that cause long-term decline.

Donna Wells2 said:You made some excellent points, and I agree with you on almost everything.👍
But we shouldn't assume the Russian people are always exactly what their leaders claim them to be... we have to remember 1917, when the people staged a revolution so massive that its echoes are still felt today.
That's why you should never underestimate the will of a people... because once they finally snap, they break everything in their path.

It isn't about what the whole nation is like—sometimes, a small minority is all it takes to change everything.

Kate Cook27 said:Yeah, obviously corruption is universal. I remember watching this documentary that mentioned in Russia, you don't go to jail because you stole—you go to jail because you stole from the wrong people. Something along those lines. The whole setup is designed so that everyone stays in favor, but anyone can be labeled "unfit" at a moment's notice. Honestly, I have no idea how a system like that in Russia is ever going to change.

The internal order within the Russian Federation matters little to me. That is their business, their choice, and how they choose to manage their own domestic affairs. The critical issue is whether they attempt to impose their solutions—or themselves—on others through force. As long as they stay within their own borders and do as they please, that is one thing. A telling indicator of the current reality is how neighboring nations are steadily distancing themselves and building walls against Russia. Everyone who has the capacity to pull away is doing so; those left behind are merely the ones who have no other choice.

These Russians just keep making threats, crying about how the whole world is against them. Do they even have any shame?

Nancy Gomez26 said:The internal order within the Russian Federation matters little to me. That is their business, their choice, and how they choose to manage their own domestic affairs. The critical issue is whether they attempt to impose their solutions—or themselves—on others through force. As long as they stay within their own borders and do as they please, that is one thing. A telling indicator of the current reality is how neighboring nations are steadily distancing themselves and building walls against Russia. Everyone who has the capacity to pull away is doing so; those left behind are merely the ones who have no other choice.

And then they wonder why nobody wants to be their friend? Why Ukraine doesn't want anything to do with them? Why Ukrainians didn't greet them with open arms and flowers? Why they didn't just surrender?

Surrender after Russia sent tanks into Ukraine? After they split people into two camps—labeling those under the Russian flag as "okay" and anyone under the Ukrainian flag as "fascists"? After claiming that anyone flying the Ukrainian flag is a fascist, or anyone singing the Ukrainian anthem is a fascist? After dropping bombs on people standing under the Ukrainian flag while reporting that "fascists" were attacking an unarmed population? After saying the people of the Donbas were theirs to protect, and then sending in tanks, soldiers, and mercenaries? After tearing down everything that looks like Ukraine in occupied territories and putting up murals of Joseph Stalin on every street corner? After people lost everything, only to be told, "It doesn't matter, the Russian people can endure it." After preaching about being a "responsible citizen," even though at any moment someone could burst into your home and take you away? Just because someone doesn't like you and reports you for speaking Ukrainian in your own house. And before you know it, you end up in Donetsk, in a prison—actually, more like a labor camp where you work day and night. Thousands have passed through those "investigative centers"—there's no real investigation, just immediate sentences of 15 or 20 years. All because you spoke Ukrainian, or spoke against the authorities of the Donetsk People's Republic, or had a Ukrainian flag in your house, or posted a photo with a Ukrainian flag on Facebook back in 2011. Or maybe because you said Ukraine is your homeland, or you kept your Ukrainian passport instead of taking a Russian one, or you were caught using a cell phone in public, which is banned. Maybe you traveled to Ukraine to visit family, so they put you under "surveillance." If you went to Kyiv, that's when your name definitely hits a blacklist. If you went to Western Ukraine, you might as well not come back, because that's where the "worst fascists" supposedly are. They're slightly less intense in central Ukraine. But in the occupied areas, they're also called fascists, though they claim there's hope there to "de-Ukrainianize" them. The population is kept under control through fear, repression, arrests, and even killings. Toss away the Ukrainian flag, the anthem, the language—everything—and just admire the mural of Joseph Stalin, the cult of personality, the hero, the righteous great leader. The fact that he killed millions of citizens of the Soviet Union doesn't matter. The Soviet Union was a superpower, and they want that back. And some people, like Girkin Strelkov, will go on about the Russian Empire, returning to those old borders, and treating "Ukraine as a problem that needs to be solved."

Nancy Gomez26 said:The internal order within the Russian Federation matters little to me. That is their business, their choice, and how they choose to manage their own domestic affairs. The critical issue is whether they attempt to impose their solutions—or themselves—on others through force. As long as they stay within their own borders and do as they please, that is one thing. A telling indicator of the current reality is how neighboring nations are steadily distancing themselves and building walls against Russia. Everyone who has the capacity to pull away is doing so; those left behind are merely the ones who have no other choice.

The internal setup of places like Russia, the USA, or China matters big time—they aren't some insignificant little nations, they have massive global reach.
There isn't some giant wall high enough to block out their influence.

Then there's the whole mess of figuring out how to maintain an order that keeps people in those countries relatively happy while also making sure those nations project a positive vibe globally.
That's a tough nut to crack.

KFC and Pizza Hut are ditching Russia

analogbear5 said:Back in 1917, and during other similar uprisings, the folks standing up didn't have much left to lose [except their chains, obviously].

Things are different now. Nowadays, if you've got even a tiny bit of stability to hold onto, you've suddenly got plenty to lose.

That is, until the draft starts knocking on your door.

Then you're basically left with just one choice—deciding who you're going to point that assigned bullet at. It all comes down to the ROI, I suppose.

Kate Cook27 said:It isn't about what the whole nation is like—sometimes, a small minority is all it takes to change everything.

I guess a minority always ends up changing things. I mean, if you look at history, almost every big social or political shift was either driven by an autocrat making a decree or a tiny group starting a revolution. And honestly, it’s usually a reaction to those autocrats—and it’s almost always pretty violent and bloody.

Terry Green3 said:If NATO pulls a move like that between May 5th and 12th, we’re heading straight for an open conflict. Nobody is going to foot that bill—it’s just common sense. So, I'd say it's unlikely.

Are Turks and Greeks really going to send their brigades while they’re still at each other's throats?
The Britons might, but Johnson is fighting for his political life in Parliament right now.
Macron? Unlikely, not after those recent election results.
The Germans won't be sending mass numbers, given their history.
The Italians... well...
As for the US, with everything happening domestically and having spent two decades bogged down in Iraq and Afghanistan, sending a massive new contingent overseas is a huge gamble.

The likely scenario? They'll count all the forces from Romania and Poland toward that 300,000 figure, add another 50,000 from various other countries to the current 40,000, and claim they have 300,000 combat-ready troops at any given moment.
We'll see if they actually walk the walk.

Johnson's done for...

boldotter2 said:That is, until the draft starts knocking on your door.

Then you're basically left with just one choice—deciding who you're going to point that assigned bullet at. It all comes down to the ROI, I suppose.

I agree... weapons can be turned against the very people who handed them to you if they cross a certain line.
And doesn't it feel like that line gets thinner with every passing day?

Terry Green3 said:Johnson's done for...

So, according to this one British institute—honestly, I don't even know what they actually do, but based on how much nonsense they pump out, they’re basically a fog machine at this point—and all these "reports" coming from the Department of Defense lately about how everyone in the Kremlin is spinning webs of lies... it's supposedly all just to make Vladimir Putin look like he's obsessively counting pennies, you know? Like, whether it's his actual life or his political career, they're making it seem like he's the only one whose government is totally falling apart and who's actually on the verge of being ousted, that little British powerhouse 🤣
But hey, I guess nobody's really a prophet in their own backyard, right? And honestly, it seems like people in London can see what's happening in Moscow way more clearly than what's going on in their own front yard 😁

darkdriver said:So, according to this one British institute—honestly, I don't even know what they actually do, but based on how much nonsense they pump out, they’re basically a fog machine at this point—and all these "reports" coming from the Department of Defense lately about how everyone in the Kremlin is spinning webs of lies... it's supposedly all just to make Vladimir Putin look like he's obsessively counting pennies, you know? Like, whether it's his actual life or his political career, they're making it seem like he's the only one whose government is totally falling apart and who's actually on the verge of being ousted, that little British powerhouse 🤣
But hey, I guess nobody's really a prophet in their own backyard, right? And honestly, it seems like people in London can see what's happening in Moscow way more clearly than what's going on in their own front yard 😁

Unlike Putin, Johnson didn't have to go around mass-firing his former colleagues or threatening corporate CEOs with a bullet to the head every single week. So, come on, tell us—how are things actually doing in Moscow these days? What are prices looking like in the shops? Any idea what the vibe is like there?

gentlerider7 said:The thing about 1917 and stuff like that is that those revolutions are usually pulled off by a small group of highly trained revolutionaries, which was basically Lenin's whole playbook anyway.

Tell me, out of that entire massive crowd back in 1917, how many people actually knew who Lenin was? Maybe 1%? Who knows??
People rally around a single idea, and then, inevitably, someone with actual leadership skills emerges from the pack for everyone else to follow.
Unfortunately, because of that idiot above—who died of syphilis—and his twisted ideology, more lives were lost than in both World Wars combined.

darkdriver said:So, according to this one British institute—honestly, I don't even know what they actually do, but based on how much nonsense they pump out, they’re basically a fog machine at this point—and all these "reports" coming from the Department of Defense lately about how everyone in the Kremlin is spinning webs of lies... it's supposedly all just to make Vladimir Putin look like he's obsessively counting pennies, you know? Like, whether it's his actual life or his political career, they're making it seem like he's the only one whose government is totally falling apart and who's actually on the verge of being ousted, that little British powerhouse 🤣
But hey, I guess nobody's really a prophet in their own backyard, right? And honestly, it seems like people in London can see what's happening in Moscow way more clearly than what's going on in their own front yard 😁

Man, it's just not like Russia where one guy can hog the throne for twenty years straight and the only way anyone actually gets him out is through old age or a bullet to the head...

Melissa Rivera5 said:Unlike Putin, Johnson didn't have to go around mass-firing his former colleagues or threatening corporate CEOs with a bullet to the head every single week. So, come on, tell us—how are things actually doing in Moscow these days? What are prices looking like in the shops? Any idea what the vibe is like there?

Fair point, man.
I don't even have a smartphone here in America, and I barely hit the grocery stores anyway—since, you know, like most Americans, I don't even have a fridge to put food in, assuming I could even afford to buy anything since the Dollar is basically worthless right now.

darkdriver said:Fair point, man.
I don't even have a smartphone here in America, and I barely hit the grocery stores anyway—since, you know, like most Americans, I don't even have a fridge to put food in, assuming I could even afford to buy anything since the Dollar is basically worthless right now.

It’s pretty easy to sit there praising Russia and hating on The West ... when you're actually living in the West 😁

Melissa Rivera5 said:It’s pretty easy to sit there praising Russia and hating on The West ... when you're actually living in the West 😁

Wait, where exactly are you seeing me praising Russia?
I mean, didn't I explicitly say they don't even have cell phones, or refrigerators, or decent food, or any money—basically none of the stuff we have in massive abundance here in the States? So, if anything, I was indirectly praising the West.
I'm trying to tear down The West from the inside—sort of like how those folks tried to take down the Communist Party back in the day.

Lisa Jackson7 said:The internal setup of places like Russia, the USA, or China matters big time—they aren't some insignificant little nations, they have massive global reach.
There isn't some giant wall high enough to block out their influence.

Then there's the whole mess of figuring out how to maintain an order that keeps people in those countries relatively happy while also making sure those nations project a positive vibe globally.
That's a tough nut to crack.

Under any rational circumstances, Russia certainly exerts influence over the entire globe. But what we are witnessing today isn't rational. An unprovoked aggression against a sovereign nation is anything but normal.
Furthermore, Russia can absolutely be isolated from the international community. It isn't the ideal outcome, of course. The true goal should be a world where such drastic measures aren't even a consideration, let alone a necessity.

Topic: "The Russian invasion of Ukraine, part 5" ☕