Sanctions on Russia

Chris Williams said:I suppose sanctions won't lead to any meaningful shifts, not even on an economic level. Out of nearly 200 nations globally, only about 45 have signed on to sanction Russia. That leaves roughly 150 countries that haven't. It suggests that Russia still has plenty of places to export its oil, gas, precious metals, food, and other resources.

We’ll see the actual impact of these sanctions quite soon, probably within weeks. Of those 45 countries, 27 are part of the European Union, which includes small players like us here in America. This winter, we might witness how these sanctions end up crippling economies, manufacturing, and industry, essentially dragging everyone back a century—unless, of course, all parties decide to sit down at the negotiating table.

I’ve heard reports coming out of Germany about people scavenging fallen branches from forests just to stay warm, yet the government forbids it, as if they can't be trusted touching state-owned timber.

A government that fails to protect its own citizens is merely providing a hollow gesture toward protecting Ukraine. It all seems like games played by the military-industrial-banking complex in the USA, where we are all—including those ineffective politicians in the EU—just puppets dancing to their tune. And yes, that includes poor Ukraine as well.

If you ask me, sanctions are producing results, but it isn't Russia feeling the sting—it's us in the EU. So, I guess you should consider who the real enemy actually is....

The number you should actually be looking at is how much of the global economy those 45 countries actually control.

I mean, sure, the USA, Germany, and France—they all count as "one country" in these stats, but so do Vanuatu, Burkina Faso, and the Green Island...

casualtiger2 said:Their feelings don't really matter here.
The goal right now is making them harmless—and that’s exactly what sanctions do.
In a year or two, Russia will be economically crippled, which means they won't be able to sustain the war in Ukraine—or anywhere else—for at least the next 15 to 20 years.
That gives everyone else enough time to get ready to defend themselves.
Now, we can only hope they eventually realize who their actual enemy is.

Look, casualtiger2, they aren't going to buckle. The Russians have just redirected the oil and gas that the European Union isn't buying toward India and China. It's the same with grain and those essential rare metals everyone needs. The European Union has about 477 million people, whereas India and China alone represent over 2 billion. Then you have the other 148 nations—including Turkey, Israel, Mexico, all of Africa, Asia, and Latin America—none of whom have imposed sanctions.

The USA has to maintain the petrodollar because there’s no other backing for the dollar, so they ensure things stay this way by fueling conflict rather than pursuing negotiation, which any rational actor would do instead of throwing gasoline on the fire.

The real objective seems to be for the USA to weaken the European Union, specifically Germany, while exhausting Russia, all while keeping China as the ultimate target... and they're managing the whole thing through maneuvering without having to fire a single shot so far.

Unless everyone else kneels, they'll have to act this way just to maintain their status and avoid bankruptcy.

So, if you look closely at who actually has horns and hooves... you might start to see who the real Satan is in this situation.

Chris Williams said:Look, casualtiger2, they aren't going to buckle. The Russians have just redirected the oil and gas that the European Union isn't buying toward India and China. It's the same with grain and those essential rare metals everyone needs. The European Union has about 477 million people, whereas India and China alone represent over 2 billion. Then you have the other 148 nations—including Turkey, Israel, Mexico, all of Africa, Asia, and Latin America—none of whom have imposed sanctions.

The USA has to maintain the petrodollar because there’s no other backing for the dollar, so they ensure things stay this way by fueling conflict rather than pursuing negotiation, which any rational actor would do instead of throwing gasoline on the fire.

The real objective seems to be for the USA to weaken the European Union, specifically Germany, while exhausting Russia, all while keeping China as the ultimate target... and they're managing the whole thing through maneuvering without having to fire a single shot so far.

Unless everyone else kneels, they'll have to act this way just to maintain their status and avoid bankruptcy.

So, if you look closely at who actually has horns and hooves... you might start to see who the real Satan is in this situation.

Putin is Satan because he started this war, killing and destroying. Actually, even worse, according to his own logic, he's killing his own people like Pol Pot.

Grace Phillips25 said:The number you should actually be looking at is how much of the global economy those 45 countries actually control.

I mean, sure, the USA, Germany, and France—they all count as "one country" in these stats, but so do Vanuatu, Burkina Faso, and the Green Island...

Sure, if you look at the 45 countries sanctioning Russia, you have places like Romania, Canada, the Baltic states, Albania, Mexico, Mexico, and maybe even a tiny little state like a small US territory... for all of them, prosperity seems to be nothing more than a pipe dream.

Whether it’s the price of oil, gas, flour, nickel, gold, aluminum, or certain fertilizers—all things Russia has in massive abundance—the costs remain consistent everywhere, and those 145 other countries representing 6 billion people aren't having any trouble importing them.

I suppose Putin miscalculated by underestimating the West when he started this war, while the West perhaps also misjudged the Russians.

I suspect they will eventually come to their senses and begin negotiating (without the interference of those Satanists from the USA), because otherwise, whoever is left will be stuck trying to hunt radioactive deer through the woods with next to no money.

@Chris Williams
Everything you’re saying here has already been debunked on this forum—more than once.
Russia still has enough cash to keep fighting for maybe another two years,
though honestly, they’ll probably collapse both militarily and economically within a year.
Europe is going to hit a pretty serious crisis, but things should normalize in a year or two.
Catch you in a year.
PS
There won't be any negotiations until that evil little gnome retreats from Ukraine (which means getting out of Crimea, too).

casualtiger2 said:@Chris Williams
Everything you’re saying here has already been debunked on this forum—more than once.
Russia still has enough cash to keep fighting for maybe another two years,
though honestly, they’ll probably collapse both militarily and economically within a year.
Europe is going to hit a pretty serious crisis, but things should normalize in a year or two.
Catch you in a year.
PS
There won't be any negotiations until that evil little gnome retreats from Ukraine (which means getting out of Crimea, too).

Yeah... "debunked on the forum"... listen to you... such a hotbed of information...

Ukraine will never be the same again; that part is settled.

No matter how you look at it, they've lost both the war and the territory. It’s nothing historically unusual. Just watch how Europe pulses, breathes, and metabolizes, and observe how borders are constantly shifting. Time lapse.

The few decades we spend on this planet simply aren't enough to truly grasp how fluid borders are and how nothing is ever truly a permanent status quo.

And I suppose you're underestimating Russia.

Mind you, don't go thinking I'm rooting for them; I'm not, nor am I rooting for a West led by the Satans of the deep state.

I find myself rooting for the little guy, everywhere—those who suffer when, as Balasevic might say, the kings play at war.

But then again, humans have always fought wars because we are an inherently aggressive, predatory species. I think these phenomena need to be viewed through a much broader lens, casualtiger2. Not just from a high altitude, but looking deep into our past.

From that perspective, every empire eventually collapsed in some horrific war; none of them survived indefinitely.

And no shift in the global order has ever occurred without the destruction of cities, the killing of people, and the redrawing of maps.

If there are no negotiations and no lifting of sanctions, we are going to witness a massive crisis in Western nations. Someone who is well-funded will likely navigate it with a moderate amount of stress, but for the poor and middle class, it will be devastating.

We'll see who was right in a year's time.... or perhaps even by January 2023.

Chris Williams said:Yeah... "debunked on the forum"... listen to you... such a hotbed of information...

Ukraine will never be the same again; that part is settled.

No matter how you look at it, they've lost both the war and the territory. It’s nothing historically unusual. Just watch how Europe pulses, breathes, and metabolizes, and observe how borders are constantly shifting. Time lapse.

The few decades we spend on this planet simply aren't enough to truly grasp how fluid borders are and how nothing is ever truly a permanent status quo.

And I suppose you're underestimating Russia.

Mind you, don't go thinking I'm rooting for them; I'm not, nor am I rooting for a West led by the Satans of the deep state.

I find myself rooting for the little guy, everywhere—those who suffer when, as Balasevic might say, the kings play at war.

But then again, humans have always fought wars because we are an inherently aggressive, predatory species. I think these phenomena need to be viewed through a much broader lens, casualtiger2. Not just from a high altitude, but looking deep into our past.

From that perspective, every empire eventually collapsed in some horrific war; none of them survived indefinitely.

And no shift in the global order has ever occurred without the destruction of cities, the killing of people, and the redrawing of maps.

If there are no negotiations and no lifting of sanctions, we are going to witness a massive crisis in Western nations. Someone who is well-funded will likely navigate it with a moderate amount of stress, but for the poor and middle class, it will be devastating.

We'll see who was right in a year's time.... or perhaps even by January 2023.

I mean, I guess Putin could just lift those sanctions whenever he feels like it, you know? If he actually stops the war and pulls his troops out of that other country, then yeah... maybe that's how it works.

Chris Williams said:Yeah... "debunked on the forum"... listen to you... such a hotbed of information...

Ukraine will never be the same again; that part is settled.

No matter how you look at it, they've lost both the war and the territory. It’s nothing historically unusual. Just watch how Europe pulses, breathes, and metabolizes, and observe how borders are constantly shifting. Time lapse.

The few decades we spend on this planet simply aren't enough to truly grasp how fluid borders are and how nothing is ever truly a permanent status quo.

And I suppose you're underestimating Russia.

Mind you, don't go thinking I'm rooting for them; I'm not, nor am I rooting for a West led by the Satans of the deep state.

I find myself rooting for the little guy, everywhere—those who suffer when, as Balasevic might say, the kings play at war.

But then again, humans have always fought wars because we are an inherently aggressive, predatory species. I think these phenomena need to be viewed through a much broader lens, casualtiger2. Not just from a high altitude, but looking deep into our past.

From that perspective, every empire eventually collapsed in some horrific war; none of them survived indefinitely.

And no shift in the global order has ever occurred without the destruction of cities, the killing of people, and the redrawing of maps.

If there are no negotiations and no lifting of sanctions, we are going to witness a massive crisis in Western nations. Someone who is well-funded will likely navigate it with a moderate amount of stress, but for the poor and middle class, it will be devastating.

We'll see who was right in a year's time.... or perhaps even by January 2023.

Nah, we're not gonna do that.

Chris Williams said:I suppose sanctions won't lead to any meaningful shifts, not even on an economic level. Out of nearly 200 nations globally, only about 45 have signed on to sanction Russia. That leaves roughly 150 countries that haven't. It suggests that Russia still has plenty of places to export its oil, gas, precious metals, food, and other resources.

We’ll see the actual impact of these sanctions quite soon, probably within weeks. Of those 45 countries, 27 are part of the European Union, which includes small players like us here in America. This winter, we might witness how these sanctions end up crippling economies, manufacturing, and industry, essentially dragging everyone back a century—unless, of course, all parties decide to sit down at the negotiating table.

I’ve heard reports coming out of Germany about people scavenging fallen branches from forests just to stay warm, yet the government forbids it, as if they can't be trusted touching state-owned timber.

A government that fails to protect its own citizens is merely providing a hollow gesture toward protecting Ukraine. It all seems like games played by the military-industrial-banking complex in the USA, where we are all—including those ineffective politicians in the EU—just puppets dancing to their tune. And yes, that includes poor Ukraine as well.

If you ask me, sanctions are producing results, but it isn't Russia feeling the sting—it's us in the EU. So, I guess you should consider who the real enemy actually is....

For some perspective, look at Africa—you've got 1.3 billion people spread across 54 nations, yet their combined nominal GDP is less than $3 trillion. Meanwhile, Japan sits pretty with a nominal GDP of $5.5 trillion.
Of those 150 countries that haven't joined the sanction party, the only one that actually matters is China.

Chris Williams said:Yeah... "debunked on the forum"... listen to you... such a hotbed of information...

Ukraine will never be the same again; that part is settled.

No matter how you look at it, they've lost both the war and the territory. It’s nothing historically unusual. Just watch how Europe pulses, breathes, and metabolizes, and observe how borders are constantly shifting. Time lapse.

The few decades we spend on this planet simply aren't enough to truly grasp how fluid borders are and how nothing is ever truly a permanent status quo.

And I suppose you're underestimating Russia.

Mind you, don't go thinking I'm rooting for them; I'm not, nor am I rooting for a West led by the Satans of the deep state.

I find myself rooting for the little guy, everywhere—those who suffer when, as Balasevic might say, the kings play at war.

But then again, humans have always fought wars because we are an inherently aggressive, predatory species. I think these phenomena need to be viewed through a much broader lens, casualtiger2. Not just from a high altitude, but looking deep into our past.

From that perspective, every empire eventually collapsed in some horrific war; none of them survived indefinitely.

And no shift in the global order has ever occurred without the destruction of cities, the killing of people, and the redrawing of maps.

If there are no negotiations and no lifting of sanctions, we are going to witness a massive crisis in Western nations. Someone who is well-funded will likely navigate it with a moderate amount of stress, but for the poor and middle class, it will be devastating.

We'll see who was right in a year's time.... or perhaps even by January 2023.

Boundaries have always shifted, and they continue to shift today. The only real variable is the specific set of tactics one chooses to employ to push those lines in a desired direction. Historically, the methods vary wildly. Someone really needs to sit Putin down and explain that we are living in the 21st century; those outdated, heavy-handed strategies from the late 1800s simply don't work anymore. I fail to grasp the sheer limitation required to believe that such clumsy, theatrical displays of "Mongol horde" warfare could actually intimidate anyone into fleeing their homes in this day and age. It’s absurd. On top of all that, Putin naturally possesses an entire arsenal of levers at his disposal—tools more suited to 22nd-century statecraft—yet he remains mentally anchored to the 19th century. It's a tragedy of stagnation. 🤦

Chris Williams said:Look, casualtiger2, they aren't going to buckle. The Russians have just redirected the oil and gas that the European Union isn't buying toward India and China. It's the same with grain and those essential rare metals everyone needs. The European Union has about 477 million people, whereas India and China alone represent over 2 billion. Then you have the other 148 nations—including Turkey, Israel, Mexico, all of Africa, Asia, and Latin America—none of whom have imposed sanctions.

The USA has to maintain the petrodollar because there’s no other backing for the dollar, so they ensure things stay this way by fueling conflict rather than pursuing negotiation, which any rational actor would do instead of throwing gasoline on the fire.

The real objective seems to be for the USA to weaken the European Union, specifically Germany, while exhausting Russia, all while keeping China as the ultimate target... and they're managing the whole thing through maneuvering without having to fire a single shot so far.

Unless everyone else kneels, they'll have to act this way just to maintain their status and avoid bankruptcy.

So, if you look closely at who actually has horns and hooves... you might start to see who the real Satan is in this situation.

Hey, could someone help me out? I've got a little riddle here that's totally stumped me..

I honestly can't tell if my eyes are playing tricks on me or if everyone invented teleportation while I was napping, but I'm just not seeing how they managed to divert all that Gas meant for the European Union over to India and China.🤔

They rerouted all that Gas destined for the European Union—straight into the trash.

Michael Ortiz68 said:Here is another one 🤦

How exactly did they reroute everything to China and India? Through which pipelines?

I said oil and Gas ... not just Gas. As for oil

India and China now account for over half of All Russia's seaborne oil exports.

Russia is now China's biggest supplier of oil , taking over fra Saud Arabia in 2022.

in March this year , Combined oil imports by China and India fra Russia overtook those fra The 27 EU member states

Regarding Gas, there has been a major announcement regarding increased deliveries to China through Sila Sibir 1, which is expected to begin by mid-December this year; additionally, the construction of the new Sila Sibir 2 pipeline has been agreed upon, which will take some time, but it seems quite clear that China is investing heavily and remains interested.

I suppose anyone would be interested in access to an unlimited supply of Gas from next door.

China’s Russian gas imports jump in first 8 months, while LNG exports hit record levels amid supply diversions
China’s natural gas imports from Russia via pipeline almost tripled in the first eight months to US$2.39 billion

I mean, why didn't some Saudi Prince just fly out to sit down with Putin one of these days? 🤔
I bet he gave him a firm handshake as a "good sport" after being so cleverly pushed aside as the top dog on the Chinese market ☕.

Chris Williams said:I said oil and Gas ... not just Gas. As for oil

India and China now account for over half of All Russia's seaborne oil exports.

Russia is now China's biggest supplier of oil , taking over fra Saud Arabia in 2022.

in March this year , Combined oil imports by China and India fra Russia overtook those fra The 27 EU member states

Regarding Gas, there has been a major announcement regarding increased deliveries to China through Sila Sibir 1, which is expected to begin by mid-December this year; additionally, the construction of the new Sila Sibir 2 pipeline has been agreed upon, which will take some time, but it seems quite clear that China is investing heavily and remains interested.

I suppose anyone would be interested in access to an unlimited supply of Gas from next door.

China’s Russian gas imports jump in first 8 months, while LNG exports hit record levels amid supply diversions
China’s natural gas imports from Russia via pipeline almost tripled in the first eight months to US$2.39 billion

Last year, Russia pumped about 150 billion cubic meters of gas into the European Union.

Time to do something truly extraordinary here. I’m going to shatter my personal annual record for reading comprehension and actually sit down to read that article I linked about Chinese imports of Russian gas. Best regards.

darkwalker1 said:Last year, Russia pumped about 150 billion cubic meters of gas into the European Union.

Time to do something truly extraordinary here. I’m going to shatter my personal annual record for reading comprehension and actually sit down to read that article I linked about Chinese imports of Russian gas. Best regards.

The text clearly distinguishes between gas and oil.

Try again.

The point is: all that oil from the 27 European Union nations has already found its buyers. Meanwhile, China has increased its imports via the existing Sila Sibir 1 pipeline and is investing alongside Russia in the new Sila Sibir 2.

I suppose you truly believe all that massive oil and gas is just going to sit there rotting in Russia's backyard.

darkwalker1 said:Last year, Russia pumped about 150 billion cubic meters of gas into the European Union.

Time to do something truly extraordinary here. I’m going to shatter my personal annual record for reading comprehension and actually sit down to read that article I linked about Chinese imports of Russian gas. Best regards.

Let’s look at the math behind this for a second. Where on earth is the European Union going to get that 150 billion from now?

Is this all just extra production, or is someone else going to end up sitting in the dark without any fuel?

And is all this stuff going to drive up prices for everything else? Like oil, for example?

How much is Russia actually going to lose in the long run?

Forget the raw numbers. At the end of the day, it's all about the money.

Welcome back, folks—looks like those bills have finally arrived again to remind us why we're here. Since we're at it, let's do a quick refresher on the big takeaways from the start of this thread.

Also, might as well grab a drink and celebrate hitting page 400.

Let's get to it. 🙂

Chris Williams said:The text clearly distinguishes between gas and oil.

Try again.

The point is: all that oil from the 27 European Union nations has already found its buyers. Meanwhile, China has increased its imports via the existing Sila Sibir 1 pipeline and is investing alongside Russia in the new Sila Sibir 2.

I suppose you truly believe all that massive oil and gas is just going to sit there rotting in Russia's backyard.

That is pure, unadulterated disinformation. They’ve bumped their gas exports to China by 28%, and the revenue has tripled—likely because prices have spiked.

There isn't anything groundbreaking happening with Russian gas sales; they just boosted the output from those Siberian fields that were already totally cut off from the EU anyway, and that's basically it.
The main Russian fields that feed Europe aren't connected to China, so you can't just flip a switch and reroute the flow.
Sure, you could try shipping it, but you don't have nearly enough capacity to handle all that excess volume—there aren't enough tankers or offshore platforms in existence to unload it all to buyers. That's why they end up flaring it. Honestly, nothing much changes unless Putin decides to let the gas flow back to Europe.

Oil finds buyers a bit more easily, I suppose... but even if the EU blocks certain pipelines, it's a sunk cost at this point. It's much easier and more profitable to move it through the routes they still control.

Chris Williams said:The text clearly distinguishes between gas and oil.

Try again.

The point is: all that oil from the 27 European Union nations has already found its buyers. Meanwhile, China has increased its imports via the existing Sila Sibir 1 pipeline and is investing alongside Russia in the new Sila Sibir 2.

I suppose you truly believe all that massive oil and gas is just going to sit there rotting in Russia's backyard.

The oil China and India are grabbing from Russia at a discount is basically the supply they didn't take from the Arabs or other players—which obviously messes with global oil prices too.

Given the blitzkrieg happening in Ukraine, sanctions are only going to tighten their grip more and more with each passing day...