Rachel Allen55 said:When it comes to people from the East, they generally struggle to integrate more than Arabs do. With Arabs—or people from the Middle East—you see two extremes: they either integrate incredibly well or not at all. As for Eastern Europeans, it’s mostly just... lukewarm. You don't notice them in public spaces the way you do with people from the Middle East who either refuse to integrate or are trying really hard. But if you grab a drink with someone from Eastern Europe, you'll quickly realize they're "more [Nationality] than the [Nationality]s." They'll be more Canadian than the Canadians in Canada, or more Estonian than the Estonians in Estonia. It was the same deal in Norway, Sweden, or Denmark. There are exceptions, but they're rare. The Arabs who successfully integrated are active in society, whereas the Americans who made it usually just stick to work and spend their entire free time holed up in their apartments or hanging out with other Americans.
Back around 1999 or 2000 in Sweden, there was this article about social closedness. Some expert cited a study claiming that the most withdrawn people in Sweden were actually those from the former America. Even more closed off than the Swedes themselves. I laughed at the article back then, but looking back, it kind of checks out.
From what I've seen personally, both here and over in Denmark, quite a few people from the old America area look for ways to live off others. In this case, living off the state. People who have been here for 20 or 30 years openly talk about it. Why bust your ass working when you can milk the state for welfare and pensions? Life is better spent at cafes, clubs, and parties. And it's happening on a massive scale.
My take? Most people from Eastern Europe—doesn't matter if we're talking about Canada, Canada, Estonia, or Czechia—live by the motto "better a donut in the shade than two in the sun."
Honestly, looking at your first three sentences, you're totally mixing up apples and oranges!
Usually, Muslims are well-integrated once they manage to separate their faith from their daily lives. Basically,
they find that balance between religion and their personal lifestyle. In 99% of
cases, these are either highly educated individuals or they come from places where that cultural shift is already standard practice.
Take the Alevi, for example.
Also, what you’re saying about Basanac and the others is just a total blur, and you actually contradicted yourself in the same breath.
Look: a Canadian, an Estonian, a Russian, a Canadian, an Italian... someone can claim to be more patriotic toward their homeland than anything else, but
that doesn't threaten or belittle anyone around them—at most, it might annoy people like you!
To me, being integrated means respecting the laws and working hard to contribute to the community you live in, whether you have a PhD or not.
That is a completely different thing from assimilation! You could spend forever searching through Sweden for murders or assaults committed by Estonians, Canadians, and so on.
I'm not claiming everyone is a saint, but mixing those groups up and comparing them to Arabs on the same level just makes zero sense.
About the Ex-Americans: Personally, in my entire life, I haven't run into a single Canadian, American, or Mexican in Germany or Austria who came over as some "low-life"
from a project housing complex. Most of them arrived and immediately built a decent life for themselves. A lot of these folks are used to having things and are used to
working for what they have. Over 90% of them work hard and contribute to society; even if their hearts are still back in the North America, they are hardworking people who earn respect.
What hurts me most is seeing how an entire generation was left behind because they didn't succeed or didn't bother to get an education, probably thinking they'd just move back home.
But then the war happened and changed everything. This current generation is on much better footing, and there are plenty of Americans in universities now, which
is ultimately great for our reputation back home. Something similar happened with Italians in Germany, but they had a head start because they arrived way back in the 50s.