So how are they actually supposed to do them then?
If it's a take-home assignment, students get a specific prompt—like an essay assigned by the teacher, reenacting certain scenes, writing a synopsis, or drafting letters and stuff like that.
In class, they have to answer orally through things like deep-dive analyses or debates.
Then there are written tests.
And sometimes they're given a full-on project, like making a film or putting on a play.
It makes me wonder how you'd even attempt to just "copy-paste" all of that from the internet. 😉
Summer, the census hasn't actually changed its core structure in 150 years; we just keep adding new layers to it. 😂
And as for that whole idea of "copying" book reports from the internet: honestly, that’s ancient history. 😁 You don't really "write" a book report anymore—at least not in a way where you can just scrape some text off a website and call it a day. 😉 I'm talking about high school level stuff here; I wouldn't know how things work down in middle school.
Kenneth Wood3 said:Yeah, and that’s exactly why I said—since the topic is books and reading—that I don't get why everyone thinks reading in their free time is mandatory when there are all these other interests that are just as valid. I have no idea what made you think I wasn't interested in books?
The impact books have on development is totally overrated, while our society completely ignores how much other hobbies matter.
Wait, did anyone actually say "everyone should be reading in their free time" on this thread? If they did, I totally missed it.
Kenneth Wood3 said:And why should they? Maybe people are interested in other things? Robotics? Video games? Sports? Learning a new language? Binging high-quality shows and movies? I will never understand this obsession with glorifying books.
Look, I totally get it. Every hobby is valid—unless you're into something weird like picking your nose. Most people don't spend their free time buried in a book anyway; those who do are definitely in the minority.
The thing is, this specific thread is about school reading lists—basically, books and reading. 😉 If you're looking to talk about sports, gaming, or whatever else floats your boat, maybe try searching for those topics instead? This forum is huge, there's plenty of room for everything else...
rowdypanther12 said:hiddendriver34, I really hope you didn't mean that "genre fiction" can't move people the way the classics do. Honestly... 😁
Regarding the required reading list, I feel like we've covered most of this already. The title of this thread says it all. What is the actual purpose of school reading lists? I think this is where everyone starts to disagree. Is the goal to introduce kids to fine art, or just to get them interested in reading? If it's the former, then the list is mostly fine (though maybe skip some of those overly dense classics 😂). But if the goal is to spark a love for books, then the current selection is a disaster. That's my two cents. 😁
Oh, goodness, no! Personally, the stuff labeled as "classics" makes me want to roll my eyes. My point is that anything required reading for school should actually count as art, not just cheap filler. Sure, you can read trash if you want to, but let's call it what it is: trash. 😁
Megan Thomas5 said:I didn't stick to the required reading list, but I definitely read a ton in school. In elementary, it was *Five Friends* and *The Diary of Anne Frank*; in high school, I devoured Sven Hassel, Stephen King, even *Mein Kampf*... mostly just because they actually caught my interest. Forget the *Odyssey* or the *Iliad* where you can't make heads or tails of anything—not to mention *Judith*. http://www.bulaja.com/Marulic/pdf/judita.pdf Seriously, look at what’s written here. Who can actually read this, and more importantly, why?! It's pure torture. Don't even get me started on all that old-school American prose. BORING. Most classic American literature is just incredibly dull.
Just give kids *The Vampire Diaries* or *Twilight*. That's stuff they'll actually enjoy, rather than listening to some lecture about the "masterpieces" of the dead. Half those authors were probably schizophrenic anyway. Or maybe try *The Divine Comedy*?
Hold on... that's just not true. 🙂
There is such a thing as "fun" literature. The kind you read at the beach or while lounging on the porch. 😁 We all pick those up from time to time because they're entertaining. But that kind of writing isn't going to change who you are. You usually forget those books as fast as a toilet flushes.
Personally, I’m all for experimenting, finding compromises, and questioning the traditional canon. But I am firmly against the idea of turning the school curriculum into a clearance bin of trivial junk just for the sake of "getting kids to read anything at all."
Sometimes I assign my students optional reading—just stuff from the standard curriculum, nothing extra. On average, maybe three kids actually pick them up. Their assignment? They have to pitch the book to a specific group of classmates, regardless of their reading level or interests. Honestly, the marketing campaigns they come up with are incredibly creative and original; they really dive deep into the psychology of their target audience to make it sell.
If they choose some incredibly shallow, mindless romance novel for their elective, they better be able to convince me. Or, they can take a more sarcastic, ironic approach to presenting it. Anything goes. 😉 I also grade them on their communication skills. I’m definitely not going to sit through every single piece of garbage they pick just to check if they did a good job analyzing the characters.
Look, there’s certain food I’m just not crazy about, but if it’s what’s on the table, I’ll eat it. Then there’s the stuff I absolutely won't touch, even if I haven't eaten in two days. 😁 It’s the exact same deal when it comes to my husband and the kids. Our dinner menu usually includes something one of them isn't thrilled about—but they'll still dig in because, hey, we don't all have the same palate. And if someone truly refuses to eat something, we just make sure there's an alternative ready to go.
As for the toothbrush thing—honestly, I couldn't care less what kind of brush they want to use. They can grab whatever is in the kitchen cabinet for all I care.
I’ll admit, I can be a pretty tough nut to crack when it comes to parenting. I’m pretty relentless about things like making sure everyone hits the sack on time. 😁
analogseal18 said:Quincy, my little one is thirteen, and at that age, boys are really just scratching the surface of puberty, which means there aren't many topics they actually feel the need to hide behind a veil of privacy. It’s simply what everyone does—we gloss over our childhood nonsense and downplay our obvious mistakes. It is perfectly normal behavior.
Personally, I wouldn't necessarily pin this on puberty; true adolescent rebellion, where one decides they are entirely in control of their own life, usually waits about three or four years down the road. Boys tend to lag behind girls in that regard.
The boy has grown bold. You likely didn't set firm boundaries early enough, perhaps assuming that his tone and choice of words were merely fleeting outbursts of frustration that wouldn't recur. However, it has since become a habit. When he behaves unacceptably, there must be an immediate consequence. Usually, the most effective methods are those that don't feel like an attack on the child—simply taking away the phone or the PlayStation. For more serious offenses, you restrict internet access and social outings that aren't strictly related to school or sports.
I honestly think the real issue here isn't his behavior, but rather that she feels like she’s lost that special bond she once had with her son.
If you two were super close while he was growing up, and now he’s in that phase where "parents are the enemy," hang in there. I truly believe that closeness will come back once he matures a bit more. He's growing up, and there's nothing you can do to stop that clock.
What you *can* do is insist that he handles his chores—hand him a printed list if you have to.😁 Definitely make it clear that he needs to speak to you respectfully (just like you do with him) and follow the house rules you deem necessary.
Always let him know, in no uncertain terms, that you're always in his corner. And give him that space and privacy that doesn't necessarily need to involve you.
Look, nobody’s out here claiming the internet is the sole reason teenagers act out. I only asked the author a question because of something she mentioned in her own post, but it feels like she just went off on a tangent. There’s really no point in wasting any more of our energy on it.
I wouldn't say I have a major issue with my son; quite the opposite, actually... He's a good kid. He doesn't cause trouble, he excels in school—definitely a straight-A student who stays busy with his hobbies—and he's social, with a solid core group of friends and a wider circle of acquaintances he hangs out with... Everything seems fine, except for the fact that he can be unbearable at times. Our communication often feels like it's right on the verge of an argument, and it happens constantly... We are actually quite similar, and we used to have a wonderful relationship... Over the last couple of years, he has become much more independent, which I think is great... But too often, he just won't listen to what I'm saying. He misses small tasks he needs to handle, messes things up, gets sarcastic, uses provocative language, or acts lazy...
How do you all deal with this? His behavior really frustrates me. It would mean so much if he just pitched in with daily chores, but whenever I ask him to do something, I have to wait for him to put down his phone or finish his video game... Is this normal for a 13-year-old?! I feel like he lacks respect for me, or empathy, or appreciation... He probably feels the same way, given how hard he fights for his own rights and freedoms 🤔 As much as I love that he is independent, that he has his own opinions, and that he stands up for himself... it is just so difficult to find the right way to preserve the bond and the trust we had until recently... I suppose I bear some of the blame here. I worked extended hours all summer—I didn't have a choice—even on weekends, and I think he just got used to being without me during that time...
We still play chess occasionally, or talk about a book we're reading, but he doesn't open up to me about everything like he used to 😢
How much screen time does your kid get daily? And how closely are you monitoring what they're actually doing online?
Are you seriously one of those people who believes that an interest in sex just suddenly kicks in once someone hits thirty?
Not at all. But honestly, that image of two thirteen-year-olds sharing a drink while he tries to pull her panties down and she plays the part of the innocent maiden? It doesn't sit right with me. It feels a bit sexist, too. At thirteen, it’s way more likely she’d be the one driving the urge to experiment. And let's be real—most likely, they're both just exploring things on their own. 😉
Nicholas King said:Think back to your last ten arguments: how many of them ended with you just handing him the win just to keep the peace? And honestly, how many times have you actually offered me an apology over the past year?
You sound exactly like one of those parents who insists, "Robert and I aren't just parent and child, we're BEST FRIENDS." Given the situation, Robert is probably losing sleep over the fact that Jacqueline might actually agree to take her bra off, yet she won't even let him touch her below the waist—even when they've had a few drinks. Do you seriously expect him to still come to you with everything?
urbantinker8 said:Are you seriously trying to compare studying law or engineering to a three-year vocational program for glass cutters?🤦 When you're actually studying, I guess it's only natural to dive into the deep details of a specific subject, whereas for a glass cutter, I suppose the priority is just knowing the practical side rather than the theory. Aren't you the one who has always been advocating for that very thing?🤔 So, if he doesn't care much for general culture—which, honestly, seems to be the modern trend of being narrow-minded—then I guess he definitely doesn't need a history of glass cutting either.
Exactly. Personally, I feel like for some similar trades, even three years isn't enough, so what on earth is a single year day of schooling supposed to accomplish?😲 I mean, I wouldn't even trust my trained hair stylist to handle anything delicate after just a meager year day of practice, let alone trust a technician to install an AC unit or do any wiring in my house.🙂
I disagree. A university degree takes four years. An associate degree takes two. What’s it going to take someone three years to learn a trade—like mastering how to hold shears, foil hair, or frame glass? I’m not saying they’ll become a master craftsman overnight—honestly, you might not reach that level even after ten years on the job—but you can definitely pick up the technical fundamentals of a craft in much less than three years, especially if you spend that entire time focusing strictly on the trade instead of wading through endless general education requirements.
Nicholas King said:Sending a message to a fourteen-year-old telling them their life is effectively ruined forever.
No, it’s not pathetic—not even a little bit. God, I’ve got tears welling up again just thinking about that poor kid whose future you're trying to seal shut.
Fine, then swap out that "pathetic" phrase for something like "their professional destiny is permanently predetermined." Or is that still too dramatic for your sensitive soul?
Nicholas King said:Come on, let’s dial back the melodrama here. It isn't like the system is chaining a fourteen-year-old to a basement floor for life...
And honestly, can we pick a lane? Are we arguing based on the "general culture" our tradespeople should have, or is this really about letting people get an education whenever they feel like it while the public picks up the tab? If it's the latter—if that's the real issue—then what happens when you have an eighteen-year-old who enrolls in some random degree just because they couldn't get into med school? Why shouldn't we let them study anatomy on the side too, just in case they change their minds and don't want to commit to the full four-year degree?
I still don't quite grasp why studying a specific trade, without any general subjects, would even take three years. A program like that should last a maximum of one year day.
In the context of the current vocational training model, "one year day" actually means—once you subtract all the holidays and half the classroom instruction—only a few months spent actually working in a shop.
I certainly wouldn't trust those kinds of plumbers, masons, or electricians to build my house.
Wait, what?😕
I didn't write anything even remotely dramatic. Honestly, you're the only one here seeing chains and basements in this conversation—that's all in your head.
Michelle Nelson4 said:I’m not really sitting here wondering what the future holds for glassmaking as an industry, but I suspect most kids currently enrolled in vocational high schools aren't particularly concerned with it either. If they actually cared about the history or the deeper context of their craft, they would have shown some interest back in middle school and opted for a different specialized academy altogether. First off, we need to distinguish between whether these students are genuinely interested or not. Because let’s be honest—if they *are* interested, there are countless ways to master the trade without needing a formal diploma to get started.
If they aren't interested, why on earth are we forcing every single fifteen-year-old to make this impossible choice? It shouldn't feel like they have to decide between studying history or risking being stuck without a high school diploma entirely.
Continuing their education later is definitely an option through evening programs, and it should be available to anyone who has to step away from traditional schooling for any reason. My only gripe is that these programs shouldn't cost a fortune. It’s simply not true that they lose their shot at a degree; it just becomes a bit more demanding because of the credit requirements and catching up on missed coursework. Honestly, what’s stopping our standard high schools from letting students who missed certain classes make up those credits through a single intensive course or perhaps by adding one extra semester to their regular schedule?
Give me a break! Four years of general education? You really think that’s actually feasible?
Nicholas King said:How exactly is he going to be "pigeonholed"? By whom, and for what possible reason???
He’d only "be pigeonholed" if he were forced into trade school simply because he drew the shortest straw. Or maybe because his last name starts with an M. Or... well, some other arbitrary factor that has absolutely nothing to do with him as an individual.
In reality, it’s more likely that he puts himself in that position—and if he decides he wants out, he should probably be the one to pull himself out. There isn't some federal law forbidding him from pursuing a different education. Is it hard? Sure, it’s difficult—but so what?
BTW, let's be clear: telling a story about some kid from early May or mid-May who somehow ends up as the CEO of the universe is about as relevant as me claiming I know a legendary figure like Mar who, in her hundredth year, chugs three liters of stout a day—which would mean I'm basically advertising alcoholism as a foolproof way to live forever.
The pressure comes from society. The old way was actually more humane because it told a fourteen-year-old kid that their life wasn't set in stone at that exact moment and that all doors were still wide open.
The new system basically points a finger and tells them exactly where they belong, and if they want a change, they're on their own to "pull themselves out." The system isn't going to lend a hand.
Honestly, I still don't get why focusing solely on a trade without any general subjects would even take three years. A program like that should realistically only last one year day.
urbantinker8 said:I haven't actually sat down to read anything by Pavicic, if I'm being honest. I'm really just weighing in on that rather silly comment she made during her TV interview the other day.🤦
Sure, if they wanted to, there could be plenty of ways to support someone looking to level up their education. But right now? They’ve basically slammed the door shut on them.
I don't know the exact stats on how many tradespeople actually went to college (probably next to none), but I do know way more than 1% of them used to take an extra year of vocational school after finishing their initial three-year program. Now, that path is totally blocked.
Besides, I think that whole "Why would a glassblower care about history?" line is just incredibly condescending and snobbish. Look, his job is to cut glass and do it well. Honestly, the less time he spends filling his head with stuff he doesn't need for the workshop, the better.
I think you might have missed the real point of Smith's piece. It’s not really about some romanticized glassblower spending his nights lost in historical novels; it's about a worker who, in this new class-based society, is basically locked into the glassmaking trade for life, with zero doors left open for him to try anything else.
Yeah. Honestly, one of the few silver linings left over from the old days is that we don't really have a rigid class system here. I didn't truly wrap my head around that until I spent some time in the Netherlands, which is definitely more class-conscious (though still nowhere near as intense as, say, the UK).
When people adopt that "mind your own business" or "don't rock the boat" attitude, they’re actually just widening the gap between the haves and the have-nots and helping build a class society.