mellowdriver86 said:You’re dead wrong about the car. Most of them get one from their parents as a gift after their first Mass. For Priests, a first Mass is just like a Wedding is for you. Parents don't need to throw a massive reception, so they just buy their son a car instead. Or take my Pastor, for example—he actually took out a loan for his car. The Diocese only covers a fraction of the parish housing and church needs; everything else comes straight from the congregation's donations. I know because that’s how it works here in America. At the end of the year, they publicly announce exactly how much money the parish collected and where every cent went. Right now, our Church of Our Lady of the Snows is undergoing renovations. We have donors, sure, but mostly it's the parishioners chipping in ten bucks here and there. Even the cemetery chapel was recently renovated. And don't think it's free to stay warm in the winter; we have heating, electricity, and water to pay for.
I guess I didn't know about that custom regarding the cars, though... I haven't really met any young priests personally. But one of the controversial ones drives a BMW... 😢 Look, I believe there are truly exemplary priests out there, I just haven't run into any of them yet. 😢
And who pays for all the expenses? Well... the parishioners do, I suppose. And if you don't give enough, you aren't considered a "good" believer... which is honestly pretty sad. 😢
I am all for donating; I give money myself and I help out whenever I can... and I know plenty of people who do the same. But judging someone's faith based on the size of their donation... eh...
Yeah, I haven't even made it to my own pastor yet (I realize now I probably should have gone to him first), but he belongs to that "crowd" that is... well... let's just say he isn't exactly the gold standard for a man of God. 😢
But today, I just went to ask a quick question at a different parish—the one where the church is located that I want to have my Wedding in... and it felt like the devil himself had entered the office. And I was being perfectly polite, quiet, and humble, too...
mellowdriver86 said:And your headline makes it sound like every single priest in the Midwest is incompetent. And don't even get me started on weddings. They stay away from church for years, then suddenly they want to tie the knot and expect a full choir to perform for them? People will believe anything! Then they have the nerve to complain about the wedding fee. And what's with the entitlement, expecting the church to be decked out in flowers and fancy organs on their dime?!
No, no, no... I just said that I’ve had my own personal struggles with this, and I honestly hope there are people here with whom I could actually have a productive, meaningful conversation.
I don't see how how often I attend church has anything to do with my faith? I mean, how can you even say that? 😢 What choir... please don't insult me or try to belittle my position. I never mentioned anything about a choir, nor is that what I want... I'm looking for a modest Wedding, yet I ended up being treated poorly by the Priest! It's not about the fees—I'd gladly leave a reasonable donation for those who need it. That isn't even the point. The real issue is the attitude and the way the Priest I spoke with today handled things.
velvetgull9 said:Michael Perez5, I was actually just reading today about how girls from Miami are filing lawsuits against some priest who acts the exact same way.
Maybe this topic would fit better over on WeddingWire, what do you think? 😉
velvetgull9... look, I'm talking about Priests, my experiences with them, church protocols, and how I can fulfill my wish to have a Wedding in the specific church I want.
velvetranger52 said:Think about who has been maintaining that church all these years—cleaning, scrubbing, and keeping the place running—just so people like you can show up one day covered in sin. Who are you to refuse to acknowledge your own faults? Repent, talk to the Priest, and then go demand what you think you're owed.
Heh... so what you're saying is, if I sincerely repent for something I've done in my life, and if I truly thank God for giving me such a beautiful and joyful life (which he has), and I am grateful for my existence... but I don't do that inside a church building, then it means nothing during my lifetime?
Give me a break... when I talk to God and when I sincerely repent, I know He hears me. That's enough for me, and it makes me feel better...
I'll say it again: I understand the rules of the church, and I know I need to go to confession before a Wedding. But you can't tell me that I can't sincerely repent, or that God won't hear me if I'm not sitting in a pew... I really don't believe that...
Timothy Martinez6 said:I can't tell you if you're a believer or not, but if you think regular sacramental confession isn't necessary (that confessing personally to God is enough), then you're stepping outside the bounds of Catholic teaching. A Priest doesn't forgive sins in a sacramental confession (only God forgives sins); he grants absolution (think of him as God's representative who, based on the authority God gave him, absolves sins).
If you know a Priest who is leaking secrets from confessions, I suggest you warn him, and if that doesn't work, report him to the Bishop.
I'm sorry that Priest treated you that way. Unfortunately, Priests sin too, sometimes even worse than anyone else. I don't know what to advise you. If you still want your Wedding at that church and the Priest is being difficult, perhaps you should talk to the Bishop...
That’s exactly what I’m struggling with... how can one man—who is supposed to be an example of divine teachings—forgive my sins in God's name? I find that really hard to wrap my head around. I guess God has some serious problems if most of His "representatives" act like what I've experienced. I truly, sincerely hope I can eventually find a good person I can actually talk to with real faith in them and their intentions.
My question is, regardless of all this, am I still able to get married in that church according to the official rules and protocols?
mellowdriver86 said:Canon law typically dictates that you hold your wedding in your home parish, usually where the bride belongs. If you want to marry elsewhere, you have to notify your own parish and provide some sort of clearance certificate. I’m not entirely sure of the technical term, but I witnessed this firsthand when a couple recently moved to downtown Chicago and wanted to register for their wedding; since their documents still listed their old addresses, they had to bring those official papers from their previous parishes. I don't know this priest, and I'm certainly not defending him, but did you even show up during office hours? Maybe the man was in a rush. Perhaps he teaches religion at a local school and is just getting back from a classroom full of kids who drove his blood pressure through the roof until he couldn't even remember his own name (anyone who has ever worked in an American school knows how chaotic they've become lately). As for the money, priests don't receive a standard salary because they serve the parish, unless they teach religious education, in which case they get paid based on their credentials. And why shouldn't he have a car? What does it matter if he's new? In this day and age, parishes are massive, and there are plenty of elderly and sick people who need home visits. If someone else were driving them, people would just accuse the priest of using church funds for private luxuries. And what is the issue with giving donations at the church? Here, everyone gives whatever they can afford. No one shames them for it. In fact, it’s often said that if you have nothing, just come and say so, and people will help you. But then, certain individuals exploit that kindness and expect huge sums of money. You show up at the door with basic groceries because you know they can't afford food, and they snap at you, demanding cash while holding a pack of cigarettes in their hand.
Thank you, this is exactly the kind of answer I needed. We arrived during business hours (office hours start at 4:00 PM—I think we got there around 4:40 PM, and he was just pulling in and parking his car) and after us, two other young people were still hanging out in the plaza.
As for donating at the church... well, kudos to those wonderful people (the Priests) you encountered... personally, I can recall quotes like, "How much should we pay for the wedding?" and the priest responds, "You don't need to pay anything; we'll just fleece the godparents." For my friends who got married, the priest told him in his office (after being asked about the wedding fee), "Add that book over there (on the far side of the table)... see, these people paid $67, these people paid $2667... and these people paid $333 (so, how much did you pay when I came to visit you?)" ($33) The guy felt so awkward... that's really all there is to it.
Priests receive a salary, all their expenses are covered, they get a personal car (it isn't just for visiting the elderly and sick—not for everyone), free housing... and that's all perfectly fine... but WHY, then, aren't these people being HUMAN, HONEST, and MODEST role models for others? 😢
eighteen says: You haven't got a clue, man. I think you'd probably basically choose a Wedding in a church just for the sake of having a big procession, rather than doing it for yourself, your wife, or your faith. You'd want to kneel at the altar without any sacraments, grab the microphone to read a speech, and tell the photographer and videographer where to stand in front of the Priest. So, did you mess up and now you're here on this forum whining and making threats against journalists and bloggers? Huh? Are you really such a "fear factor" in your own town that you have to follow every single trend? This whole thing about a short-fused moderator has nothing to do with a priest... it’s all about you.👎
>
Which part isn't clear? Did I not say I would have the sacraments? Are you even reading? What wedding procession?? You're talking to the wrong person. What videographer or microphone in a church? It's a small Wedding... a few people... a tiny church... purely sentimental reasons... A trend? What trend... I think you've got me completely wrong. I am not the person you're describing... I feel bad that you think that way, but if that's how people around you act... I honestly feel sorry for you.
I don't go around gossiping about priests... I haven't heard this specific story myself, but the people who do talk always seem to be rehashing the same old "incidents." Honestly, I have no intention of trying to ruin anyone's reputation or anything like that... but today’s situation really pushed me to finally just write down everything that's on my mind... I mean, I just can't wrap my head around how someone who is supposed to be a role model for the community could 😢
I think I'm going to have a meltdown... everything will follow the usual protocol... but there's no way he's going to be the one officiating our wedding, that much is certain. Still, I'm trying to figure out a workaround so we can still hold the ceremony at that church in downtown Savannah.
Does anyone know how the relationships between different parishes and their priests usually work? I guess I'm wondering how I should handle this—does anyone have any insight?
The car itself doesn't even matter... It’s just the fact that he started screaming at me simply because I approached him with a question... I mean, who is actually the crazy one here? Why... why am I even sitting here writing this? If I hadn't posted this here, I probably would have written it on my blog or sent it to the local news... I just don't understand why he does this. What kind of example is that for people and for believers? Why!?
But look... I want to get married at St. Michael's Church, and I truly believe I have a right to do so... How can I go about fighting for those rights?
So, I guess I’m not a believer just because I haven't done my Confirmation... wow... that’s exactly the kind of response I was expecting. Maybe I’m not a believer either because I don't leave money $333 to cover "the priest's needs—the parish's needs" . Or maybe I’m not a believer because I believe a priest can't actually "forgive" my sins; only God can, and even then, only if I sincerely repent by my own bed and He hears me, right? Am I not a believer if I don't show up at St. Michael's Church regularly? Am I not a believer because I think the nuns shouldn't be treated like servants to the priests? And am I not a believer if I spend my time helping the sick, the hungry, and those in need... which I ALWAYS do?
Did God suggest that priests should drive around in brand-new cars, go out for fancy lunches at restaurants, or hang out with their buddies at night over beers talking about what some teenage girls confessed during confession regarding their first experiences? Is that why the sacraments have to be respected?
Look, I realize that if I want a church wedding, I have to follow whatever rules the church sets. That’s just how it works. I know I need to do my Confirmation, and I will do it. So, the sacraments are being honored... but that's not what we're talking about right now! My faith is deep, and it's my own personal relationship with God (which, I mean, I believe everyone should have if they want to live honestly and in peace—you don't need priests to take your money and tell you whether you're a believer or not... I guess...). But unfortunately, I haven't had a single positive experience with priests. In fact, my experiences have been completely opposite, and in the worst way possible.
I would truly love to talk to an honest, humble, and reasonable representative of God, but I haven't run into one yet...
The reason I'm writing here is about the behavior of a priest who acted so condescendingly and arrogantly. He looked down on me, insulted me, and treated me like a liar... I mean, what kind of man does that? I don't even have friends like that...
How can you ask people for MONEY when they already hold such a fearful respect for priests, and many actually think they aren't "good believers" if they don't give enough cash? I just can't believe it... but what happened today really crossed the line. And by the way, I didn't even tell him I hadn't done my Confirmation. Honestly, I could barely get a word in between his outbursts... who knows... if I had, he probably would have kicked me out right then and there... 😢
I really wanted to believe it, I truly did. I don't really have much of a relationship with priests—though I definitely have one with God. I suppose if you asked the representatives of the church, they might label me an atheist. For them, maybe that’s true... but their opinion doesn't really change my faith. To me, they're just ordinary people. They don't have the power to "forgive someone's sins." That is something only God can do, and I assume that only happens after a sinner truly repents from the heart. But let me clarify.
Here’s how things stand: I was baptized in Indianapolis, over in the Rutherford neighborhood. I wasn't complaining, really. It's just that back when I was actually supposed to be getting confirmed, I wasn't even allowed to attend religious education classes... but that’s a whole other story, I guess.
She was baptized over in Indianapolis, specifically in the South II neighborhood, and had her confirmation up in Long Valley. She lives in a town just outside of Indy, and I actually live in a different town nearby. 🙂
We had our hearts set on getting married at St. Michael's Church over in Rutherford, near Indianapolis.
We headed over to the parish office in Rutherford today, but the priest wasn't around when we arrived. I noticed this massive apartment right there in the courtyard with a really beautiful yard. We sat in the car for a little bit, just waiting, until he finally showed up. As soon as we were Going Out, he pulled his new Golf right into his own driveway. He actually saw us approaching, but instead of saying hello, he just shut those heavy, solid doors. We went inside and gave him a proper greeting, letting him know we needed a moment of his time. But as he was heading up the stairs, he just muttered, "What is it you need?"
The vibe was just... awkward, like we were totally inconveniencing her. We walked into this space that felt exactly like some corporate office. We mentioned how much we’d love to get married at St. Michael's Church, so we went in to ask if that might actually be an option... we were being really humble and polite about it.
That was when the IRS really started acting up!
The priest: Which parish are you all in? I guess I should probably mention that... In that spot and that one. Priest: Why don't you just handle that back home? I mean, come on... if I absolutely have to marry you, fine, but you can't just show up like this! (shouting) I just wanted to ask you—we have this real heartfelt desire to get married at St. Michael's Church, mostly because we have such deep sentimental ties to the place. The priest: Oh, please, don't even start with me! (He’s pacing around his office like he’s expecting me to throw a punch at him.) Seriously though, how are you actually going to get your kids baptized? What kind of relationship do you even have with your local parishes? Me: Oh, nothing in particular, I guess. Priest: So, you’re actually asking me to offici your wedding? (He starts shouting—it gets awkward fast, and I honestly can't believe this is happening.) Look, if I absolutely have to perform the ceremony, fine, but don't you dare lecture me. I know how this works. If your own church isn't exactly drawing a crowd, you'd probably rather just do it here instead... You really need to build a better relationship with your local parishes first. You should probably go ask your fellow clergy what they think about this kind of thing; you can't just act like this... (He keeps yelling, and he seems incredibly on edge.) Well, obviously we’re going to ask them... we just wanted to check in and see where you all stand on this first, since we don't really know anything about it ourselves. We were under the impression that they told us we needed to prepare the registration forms through our own local parishes? The priest was basically like, "...Are you kidding me? Why are you even here?" He went on to say that if he actually agreed to marry us, we’d just head back to our home parishes and tell everyone, "Oh, all we need is the release paperwork because the priest said he'd do it!" Look, I'm not lying... I just really wanted to see where you guys stand on this. A priest? Honestly... if you're that determined, maybe just have your own local pastor marry you then.
.... ...
Thank you so much... goodbye.
Going Out... we step onto the street and see a couple just standing Outside... "Is the priest inside?" Yeah, he is... "How's the weather looking today?"?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????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That’s about all I have to say on the matter. I’m honestly in complete shock right now. I'll be the first to admit that I’ve always had a pretty negative view of priests—I’ve always felt like they don't really have any connection to God at all. But after what happened today... I’m just speechless. I don't even know what to say. As if it isn't enough that they lack any sense of humility, or that they have no concept of what poverty or true contrition actually look like... as if it isn't bad enough that they lack basic decency and actively turn people away from their faith... as if being arrogant and rude wasn't plenty... then you add the fact that they draw a salary, snatch money right out of people's pockets, and claim a Christian is only "good" based on how much cash they leave at the altar. It’s just wrong. They live in these massive estates, obsessed with nothing but hedonism—money, luxury cars, gambling, huge mansions, and having staff that act like they're part of some holy order, all funded by the donations from the parishioners. Honestly, it’s just a total disgrace.
And finally... my dear says she doesn't want to see him anymore, nor does she want anything to do with "his church."
His? Seriously? Since when do priests own property and churches personally??? I swear, I’ll take this all the way to the Vatican if I have to, but I won't let this slide. I am just so fed up with these scammers. (And look, major respect to the exceptions who truly serve God and people and actually live out their faith) but unfortunately, either I have terrible luck or I just keep running into these absolute crooks. And today... today was just too much.
I think I might actually start a blog just to expose priests like this—documenting exactly who did what and when.
I'm pretty worked up right now... but you have to agree, this isn't how someone should act. A man in that position is supposed to be a role model for how people should live, representing himself and his calling with integrity...
Does anyone happen to have specific recommendations for correcting certain features? I'm thinking about things like drooping eyelids, protruding ears, or even scar revision...
I was wondering if anyone here has gone through with any kind of plastic surgery on their face or body? Does anyone happen to know what the typical costs look like at major US plastic surgery clinics? I guess I'm looking for something like a general price list if anyone has one handy. Also, does anyone have any actual personal experiences they could share?
Look, it isn't even about the thousand bucks; it’s the three months of losing my license that really worries me... because if I'm stuck without driving privileges for three months, then $3.25 is going to be a massive headache.
I wasn't actually getting into an argument with the officer... I just had my registration updated in a small town in the Midwest... so it looks like things might go...
Does anyone happen to know the name of the Chief of the local police department and where that station is located? I would be incredibly grateful for any info...
urbanraven16, thanks so much for the advice and for taking the time to help...
No installment plan available... I checked earlier, and now that I'm back home, I just saw the order... A three-month driver's license suspension under Section 137, Subsection 2??? Why on earth is it three months? Does anyone have access to that statute or know where I can look it up?
I honestly thought it was only going to be one month 😢
I just show my driver's license to the police officer and that’s basically it—there's no way around it. But I wonder, is there any chance these $333 could be paid off in installments? The officer handed me a payment slip with $333 on it.
urbanraven16 said:Oh, Michael Perez5... seriously, how did nobody give you a heads-up on this disaster? :-(
It’s pretty much over now... once they hand you that citation on the spot, it doesn't matter if you haven't paid yet—the clock starts ticking the very next day for your window to contest it... if you wanted to stop that citation from becoming final, you had to file an appeal within eight days...
But now it's official, and you've already missed the deadline to try and roll back the whole mess...
Unfortunately, there isn't much left to do, so you're looking at turning in your driver's license, and you'll have to cough up the fine plus all the extra fees, otherwise they'll just send it to collections through the IRS, and if that fails, things could get even uglier with potential jail time...
It really is a shame, because there was a decent shot at getting a suspended license instead or maybe even a lighter fine...
Man, for crying out loud, didn't any lawyer around here think to give this guy a little advice before it hit the fan?!
Wait, what's the deadline? Is there really no way at all to undo this and get back to the previous status?
Look, I’ll admit I was being stupid, but there is just no way I can give up my driver's license. If I lose it, I’m basically screwed—I'll be on welfare. I don't mind paying the fine, but how am I supposed to explain to them that losing my license would leave me completely destitute?
How could I possibly frame a valid reason for why I didn't file an appeal immediately, but am instead trying to do it now, two months later?
What kind of excuse might actually work?
edit: So, I just got off the phone with some lawyers... and apparently, just like urbanraven16 mentioned earlier, I might be able to delay the suspension until a time that works better for me. But there is absolutely no way to keep my license without facing a suspension. Man, this sucks... I honestly can't believe it...
Is there ANY chance I can get everything reverted to how it was and still file my appeal?? Does anyone here happen to know?
Look... I can't just hand over my driver's license. If I lose that, I'm basically one step away from being on welfare. I wouldn't mind paying the fine, but how am I supposed to explain to them that giving up my license isn't an option?
How could I even frame a valid reason for why I didn't file an appeal immediately, and instead, I'm sending it now after two months have passed?