Posts by ruggedfalcon2

wanderingridge said:It doesn't matter. You really think you can get good at something if you only do it three times a week?
lagano—skill, lethal technique, all that... you can think what you want...

Of course you can...

Elizabeth Ruiz65 said:What else could you expect? I'll be gone for a few hours—then right back in the thick of this compulsive urge...
Complexity and that constant itch to prove oneself—that’s all there is to it...
Three posts here where they’re back at it again—relying on the same old prejudices, cheap shots, and just plain bad takes...
Trying out that cynical act—using terms like "kid," "screw it," or "little guy"—and then turning around and taking shots at me too...
He’s claiming I’m directing some intense energy his way—apparently, he’s written three different posts about it now...
Look, if I find myself running out of actual arguments—which happens—I just resort to throwing insults instead... all the time.
Use those shallow little attempts at cynicism they call "childhood wit." 🙂
Prosenice sounds convincing enough to me—but when it comes to the actual footage and technical execution, I'm still not sold...
You haven't actually accomplished anything—all you've done is leave some ink on paper without proving a damn thing...
I mean, why even bother stepping into the ring if training is just endless semi-contact drills...?
Just testing things out—seeing how this all actually works—because I know some people aren't really here for the right reasons...
Proving yourself in the ring for life... but I don't quite get you—there's something almost compulsive about it...
It’s honestly a bit hard to wrap your head around—proving that not everyone is cut from the same cloth is a tough sell... You’ve got your own way of doing things, too...
Opinions that won't change a damn thing—whatever I tell you, you'll just...
Here comes another "argument"—if you can even call a blatant prejudice an argument—like that one lady claiming someone is basically working for Bayer...
Definitely bad—the student always ends up outshining the teacher, especially when you throw in a megamix of childish insults...
Some people just aren't smart enough to even be funny. And I told you—I wasn't in the bathroom...
Long story short—I just don't care for the endless back-and-forth about which approach works better...
Glorifying anyone—especially at such a low level—is just wrong. It’s beside the point...
When someone opens their mouth just to tear something down—and I mean specifically with that intent...
For the sake of personal insight and some actual constructive debate—especially after seeing what we've already gathered from these folks here...
I'm not getting anything useful from you—not one thing—and on top of that, you're totally missing the point...
For some reason, I just realized this was a direct hit on my integrity...
Regarding one's own being and existence—even if I could offer you an answer to yours...
Question—I just don't see the point in answering like that either...
I'll keep going with this same topic in the next part...

So, I'll just give you a warm hello for now—and truly, I wish you a life with a little less stress...
Resentment and complexes...

That’s what I said. 😁 Another post just analyzing my guy and his dialogue... 🙏 😳
If I had just said from the jump that P. Bayer is a total joke, what would have happened then...? 🤣 Look, I was just making the point that there’s only one true Wing Chun—the Yip Man lineage—and everything else is just marketing fluff... but apparently, that’s enough to trigger a guy who’s been training for all of two months. So what’s a "sect," anyway? 🙂 Look, Pazte gets it better than anyone—and honestly, we all know why he’s always right... It's because he's the one footing the bill for all that expertise! 🤣 If you pay for something, you've got to trust it—haha... nothing new there... Kid, I’m sorry you felt like you were under fire... Just like in my first post, I can only wish you the absolute best with your training... 👍 I’m truly sorry you felt insulted... once you relax a bit or just grow up a little over time—and maybe re-read my posts—you'll realize I don't have an issue with anyone. You seem to be the only one here trying to claim some special expertise in P. Bayer Wing Chun... yet when I specifically asked you what the actual difference was, you didn't offer a single concrete answer. Instead of getting worked up and spending all that energy analyzing my "ego," you could have actually contributed something useful... but everything is clear now. You aren't the first or the last of these so-called RH Wing Chun enthusiasts. I've seen this routine before, and psychologically, it's transparent given the mindset you guys train with. If you actually wanted a constructive discussion or to learn something—like you claim—you wouldn't be talking nonsense; you'd be listening. But hey, it's your choice. I wish you the best, and the same to your instructor, Mr. Bichanic, who apparently heads over to Germany a few times a year to apprentice under P. Bayer. 😁 He’s definitely running a modified version of Wing Chun... and honestly, like you said... who even needs a ring when you're doing full sparring anyway... 😁

Elizabeth Ruiz65 said:🙂

Look, kid... honestly... it’s about time you came clean... what’s the actual deal with the science behind Bayer’s Wing Chun modification? It seems like once you ran out of actual points, you just decided to come after me... fine, whatever, maybe that’ll help you out in the short term 👍 but I’d actually appreciate an answer now... 😘

briskjackal5 said:The answer is actually pretty simple.

It’s not even part of what makes someone a master—doesn't serve any real purpose anyway.

Just look up some videos on "anti-grappling" and ask a real grappler what they think about it.

- briskjackal5 -

I haven't found anything online specifically labeled as "anti-grappling" skills... but I did ask a respected grappler—a Jiu-Jitsu and Judo expert—and he told me Wing Chun anti-grappling works perfectly fine.👍

Just to give you an idea of who actually shows up to train under a Wing Chun instructor like this... specifically regarding Prosenica:

07-07-2006, 04:42 PM
Gooseman
Registered User Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 19

Reply to Milan Prosenica ??

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Milan Prosenica is in his 50s now—his era of dominance across Europe spanned the 80s and early 90s.
http://www.kungfu-si.com/strani/milanpros.htm

I spent some time training with him this year at Nick Smart’s gym over in Lancashire.
Man, for a retired pro, he still moves like lightning—the guy is absolute steel.
His gym in Canada is a legitimate pro-fight facility... you'll see guys like Mirko Crocop or Gary Goodridge—along with parts of the Golden Glory team—dropping in there when they're fighting K1 or MMA in Eastern Europe.
Milan’s specialty is combat footwork, finding those tight angles, and developing power for full-contact fighting. He’s legendary for running the best pad work for the K1 training teams in that region.
Believe me, the guy just radiates intent, power, and pure skill.
And he’s got a great way about him too—really impressive presence.
The Goose!

So, you'll easily find names like Mirko (back in his K1 days) or even Gary Goodridge on his list... so you can see why I "admire" him so much. And you know why? It's because they don't try to sell you some smoke and mirrors about "their unique style" or how "scientific" it is... they don't hide behind famous old masters either. They get in the ring and do the work themselves. There it is. Now, go ahead and turn it back on me—call me cynical or malicious if you want... go for it. 🙂 ..anyway. 👍

Elizabeth Ruiz65 said:p.s. anyway, since you keep bringing up "the ring," why don't you just show me some footage
of your favorite bathroom breaks in the ring—I’d actually love to get a little informative look at that.

That’s common knowledge by now... this time I’ll pivot to something else entirely... mostly focusing on the white guys... but alright... here’s an American link where people from the Wing Chun community give neutral feedback—not tied to any specific "style"—listing folks who actually stepped into combat... go ahead and learn something from that first post at the top...🙂
http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/foru...t=42145&page=2

Elizabeth Ruiz65 said:I already explained why I posted that as P.Bayer's Wing Chun, and I said...
I don't want to glorify one specific approach over another—and that was the whole point here...
That's it. Honestly, everything I just went through was basically just the standard situation back in the States...
It's not just about targeting Bayer—it’s more about how he handles things... his whole approach.
Best one. And you just jumped right in—that childish need to prove yourself took over immediately...
Everything that’s said—even if it just veers slightly away from what you actually believe—is basically a direct hit on you...
(It’s all about indoctrination, really)—and then you just end up serving up the shallowest, cheapest attempts possible...
It’s been a minute since I’ve heard cynicism quite like that—something along the lines of "me and my mentor, Mr. Bičančić"...
Or these pathetic little attempts at mockery just because they're linking it back to Bayer...
Prosthetics and those modifications we talked about—nothing lower than that.
And I’m not even going to get into that whole ego thing—you know, the kind that stems from the desperate need to be the one who gets all the credit...
Bayer's scientific approach when you face him in a fight—well, it’s common knowledge that he's...
That whole approach is basically just Wong’s legacy—and now you're telling me that even Wong...
He never actually fought it (I’m talking about Beimo). That whole ego thing—it was really just about how you would...
I’ll admit it—I can see you really think the whole world revolves around you and that everyone else should just...
Which Wing Chun practitioners should actually care about what this forum guy thinks?
Someone who prefers to keep their identity private.

Like I said—I'm just not interested in these WC debates, especially not here...
At such a childish level—where instead of actually being constructive, it just relies on...
Driven by stubborn prejudices and a childish need to belittle others... 👋

P.S. Anyway—since you're always talking about some ring, just send me the footage...
Just looking for some info on my favorite WC fighters in the ring—would love to get a little deep dive on them...

So, this guy is throwing a fit... He managed to find fault with everything in my post except for the actual question—which he completely ignored. I laid everything out clearly and backed it up with solid arguments. The fact that you (since you’re the one who started this whole thing about Bayer) feel personally attacked and are now dumping all your energy into attacking me for two posts straight... well, that says a lot more about you than it does about me... 👍 In any case, they certainly haven't failed to impress me... 😳
Yeah, Wong is one of the legends at BJJ... I’ve written about him plenty of times—on my blog and here too. Though, knowing you, you probably won't even address what I'm actually asking; you'll just sit there sighing at me instead. So, let me ask you this rhetorically: you're basically like those guys following Lok Yiu—people who assume that just because someone is a "Grandmaster," it automatically follows that they're elite fighters. Like, if a teacher of teachers was successful in matches, then you and your instructors must be "fighters" too... even though you've likely never stepped foot in a real ring in your life, unless it was for a photo op. 🤣

Justin Adams5 said:Bas Rutten is the man—I've got plenty of his gear and honestly, everything he puts out is solid.
As for Wing Chun, I just don't get how a master can ignore anti-grappling or anything else if those skills are part of being a complete martial artist. A buddy from my neighborhood runs this "Muay Thai" club where they don't even touch knees or clinch work at all... then when I show up to spar with his students, he tells them to stay away from the clinch. Well, if you aren't doing that, it isn't really Muay Thai, is it? In my gym, we cover the whole spectrum—knees, straight punches, the works—and then it’s up to the fighter to adapt those techniques and use whatever fits their style best. Even in Thailand, you have camps famous for heavy clinch work, while others focus more on hand speed, but in every single one, fighters learn the full package—they just specialize in what suits them or what the camp pushes...

👍 exactly... 👍

I suppose I’ll add one more thing... I’ll admit to Bayer’s "modification," but only from one specific angle—the very thing I was admiring him for in my first post here 🙏. See, we're talking about a guy who doesn't have a forearm, but a prosthetic instead... It’s common knowledge that he actually had to "modify" his Wing Chun because of that. It’s no secret... his Si Fu Wong had to adapt his training—incorporating stick work and all sorts of other adjustments—specifically because of that loss... So, yes, there really is a modification in Bayer's case. And if every single one of you claiming to practice his "style" also happens to be rocking a prosthetic arm (if so, I feel for you, but honestly, I admire the grit 👍)... then fine, I'll concede that your version of Wing Chun is somewhat modified too. Just wanted to be clear about what kind of modification we're actually discussing, and why I'm only acknowledging this one based on the objective circumstances... no hard feelings 👍

Mark Wilson39 said:Come on, guys—everything is fine as long as we’re capable enough to turn things to our advantage and actually learn something useful from it. It doesn't matter whose dad is tougher... at that point, everyone's just outclassed anyway...
but... what do you all think about Bas Rutten? I've got some of his stuff on CD... you can really learn a lot from him. After all, he's the head coach over at Anaconda.🙂

It’s not about whose dad is stronger... there's only one true father figure here, and that's Yip Man. The problem is that some sons, stepsons, grandsons, or even great-grandsons are nowhere near the level of the "father," yet they love to claim his name...😉
btw. Bas Rutten is top-tier.
👍

Elizabeth Ruiz65 said:I wasn't saying that just to glorify "his" P. Bayer Wing Chun
or anything else—it’s more because you see it mentioned everywhere
that when Yip Man's students progressed, he basically tailored
their training philosophies individually for everyone. That led to some students pushing anti-grappling techniques while others
won't even touch them. Some teachers might wait years before
introducing stick work,
whereas others get a student into a better stance with just a few drills almost immediately.
Some insist on doing Bong Sao early through lateral lifting exercises
rather than pure elbow rotation right away, while others
demand that rotation from day one. Some people mystify everything with
Chi energy manipulations and stuff like that, while others stick strictly to
a scientific—call it a Western—approach.

And by naming a style after someone who trained under Yip Man,
it implies it’s actually his version of Wing Chun, but it gives a clearer
picture of that specific person's methods rather than just saying "I do Yip
Man's Wing Chun." The reason is that not everyone incorporates
every single element of the original teaching in the same way, and over time,
modifications creep in—whether that's good, bad, propaganda, or just
plain old marketing.

Anyway, that's all there is to it. I'm not really interested in the Wing Chun bickering here—
my take is you just need to train more and talk less.

Where on earth did you get the idea that I wanted to argue or was trying to glorify anyone? Who even started this thread asking "what do you think about P. Bayer Wing Chun"... was it you or me? 😉
None of what you listed actually justifies calling it "P. Bayer Wing Chun." And claiming Man "individualized" training is just your misunderstanding of the marketing gimmicks his students use... which, honestly, it looks like you're buying into. 😉That "individualization" usually boils down to a few things:
there are people who barely spent any time with Y. Man or weren't with him at all... they didn't learn much in such a short window. Of course, when you don't know something, the best move is to say, "It doesn't matter... we're convinced of [blah blah blah]." I won't drag this out because my head is pounding from this cold... the point is, everything you wrote is textbook indoctrination. We all know why and when stick work is used. All these "improvisations" are either a total failure to grasp the essence of Wing Chun... or pure marketing to say, "we're different," or "we're more Western"... and so on. It's common sense that you can't run before you can walk. No matter how "traditional" that sounds, it's just the truth. Basically, modifications happen because people lack the knowledge or they're just trying to sell snake oil. I told you I'm glad you're happy and getting some exercise... but based on what you just wrote, you're a victim of indoctrination. I don't care if that upsets you or your "Sifu" Bichanic... and I'll only acknowledge this "scientific approach" once someone from Bayer's "lineage" actually performs in a ring or at least steps into one (especially since Bayer has been teaching for over 30 years). Until then, I don't care about the modifications or the science. It only interests me as a hobby or something to laugh at... so, don't feel attacked or anything... I'm just telling you my thoughts on these "modifications" and the "science."...🙂

ruggedfalcon2 said:Nah, that’s not what I meant... I was clarifying my point... about how people split things up into Leung Ting, Wong, Bayer, and so on. Honestly, Wing Chun feels like selling smoke to amateurs—but hey, if that's your thing, go for it... btw, you've actually piqued my interest now... tell me, what makes this "your" P. Bayer Wing Chun stand out? Do you guys have specific techniques that aren't part of the standard Yip Man lineage? Is there a real difference in how you approach the training compared to Yip Man’s traditional methodology? Now I'm genuinely curious... 👍 🙂

So, LNP20? 🙂 😉

Elizabeth Ruiz65 said:maybe they’re implying Yip Man was the primary driver behind passing down the knowledge
meaning everything traces back to him—but I also don't see why we couldn't--as you put it--
use Leung Ting's Wing Chun, Wong's, or even Emin Boztepe's... for sure
there's definitely a difference in methodology and approach among those three, and just attributing it all to
Yip Man's version doesn't give a clear picture of what's actually being expressed

Nah, I'm not aiming for that... I wrote what I'm aiming at... the split between Leung Ting, Wong, Bayer, and so on. Most Wing Chun is just selling smoke to naive people... if that's your cup of tea, fine by me... 👍 btw, alright, you've actually piqued my interest now... tell me then, what makes that "your" P. Bayer Wing Chun stand out? Do you guys have techniques that aren't found within standard Yip Man Wing Chun? Is there a real difference in how you approach things compared to Yip Man's traditional methodology? I'm genuinely curious...🙂

wanderingridge said:Yeah, if you look at the BJJ connection—people talk about Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, Machado Jiu-Jitsu, and so on... but honestly, it’s all just Jiu-Jitsu.

That comparison only really holds up if we're talking about specific branches like Leung Ting, P. Bayer, or Wong styles... but within the broader umbrella of Wing Chun, there are massive distinctions. For instance, when I was watching a clip of Pien San Wing Chun online, I could barely find any connection to what I knew—it felt totally different. In that sense, the variations are far too deep to just lump everything under one "Wing Chun" label... by the way, I didn't make this distinction up; it's actually recognized in the martial arts community. Everyone else (specifically those following the Yip Man lineage) is basically just doing marketing—they
create these sub-names just to stand out a bit more...🙄

dustywolf52 said:There’s one thing that doesn't quite add up. If you're claiming there's no such thing as Leung Ting Wing Chun, Wong Wing Chun, or Bayer Wing Chun... what's the logic behind saying Yip Man Wing Chun exists while all those others don't?

The logic is pretty simple—all the styles you listed actually fall under the broader umbrella of the Yip Man lineage. Basically, Yip Man's version of Wing Chun is its own specific thing, and it's quite distinct from the other branches... For instance, some of the core alternative Wing Chun styles include:
-Gu Lao Wing Chun
-Yuen Kay-San Wing Chun
-Pan Nam Wing Chun
-Pao Fa Lien Wing Chun
-Nanyang Wing Chun
-Hung Suen Wing Chun
-Jee Shim Wing Chun
-Vietnamese Wing Chun
-Malaysian Wing Chun
-Fujian Wing Chun
-Yiu Kai Wing Chun
-Pien San Wing Chun
-Hung Suen Hay Ban Wing Chun, and so on...

Anyway, I already covered this whole thing over on my blog... 😉

Elizabeth Ruiz65 said:Yeah, exactly—his name is Danijel, and he's the one I train with. It's true, happened a few times...
He trains at Bayer annually—started doing it about three years ago—and he’s been there for almost every session since...
For the last 9 years... mostly just putting in about two hours every single day—pretty intense sessions, really...
Training sessions—if they’re going to work, they need to feel like pure recreation at first. That focus is everything right at the start...
Studying the theory, then jumping straight into practicing those elements on the job...
Went through intense sparring—started with dolls, then moved into full contact sessions. It’s pretty hardcore stuff...
Work, no holding back on the strikes or the rest—and I dig that. Also, every...
Finishing up training—spent about 20 minutes hitting the bags, both the 100kg and the 50kg ones...
Okay, focus on them—and those guys carrying the heavy sacks—getting themselves attached to the wall, or maybe just working with a pole...
About 3-4 meters away. Not many people around—maybe 3 or 4 at most per session, so yeah... that's about it.
It allows for a lot of independent work—which is a huge plus in my book...

Glad to hear you're happy with everything... 🙂

Walter Foster81 said:I tried searching for any info on it here on the forum, but came up empty. I’m curious about what everyone else has dealt with regarding this bacteria... Honestly, I didn't even know it existed until now. 🙂 Some people claim it's dangerous, while others say there's no need to even treat it!! 😕

It isn't actually a bacterium, honey 😉

Elizabeth Ruiz65 said:Come on now, let's not get bogged down in the tiny details... =) It’s true that everything traces back to Ip Man, but then again...
It’s common knowledge that everyone eventually adds their own little twist to things—or just interprets them through their own lens...
A specific way about them—whether they’re being positive or negative. Just in that sense...
He meant "Philipp Bayerov Wing Chun." I'm actually just starting my training recently...
Just so you know—I’ve got a buddy who’s been working over at Bayer for a few years now, so he knows the drill. Just some info... =)
Yeah, thanks for getting back to me...

Look, honestly—I'm not being nitpicky, I’m just simplifying things... you know, when someone adds their own little "flair" to it... 🙄 It happens often—either there isn't enough actual expertise or the opportunity to learn, or they just throw stuff in for pure marketing fluff... As far as I know, Bayer hasn't ever really fought for anything sincerely, so I'm not exactly convinced that what they "added" is actually effective or useful... You're probably from somewhere like New Jersey or the surrounding area... I know a guy around there who worked with P. Bayer a few times a year... 🙄 ...anyway, the main thing is that you're happy and content. 👍 It all really comes down to what you’re looking for in whatever skill or sport you're training... if it's just about recreation and hanging out with people, then I think you picked a good one... 🙂

placidbison20 said:Exactly. It’s all about the skill set...
Basically just mixed martial arts.

👍 😁

Elizabeth Ruiz65 said:What do you guys think about Philipp Bayer's Wing Chun?

Honestly, I have a lot of respect for him—he’s a massive enthusiast and despite his major setbacks and physical limitations, he just keeps showing up and training... hats off to him... 🙏 He was actually one of the first Americans to really connect with Wong and spend significant time learning from him... 👍 As for the specific question, I can't say much... mostly because I'm not entirely sure what constitutes "Philipp Bayer's Wing Chun" specifically... 😕 To be blunt, my experience is strictly limited to Grandmaster Ip Man's Wing Chun... 🙂