1. Neither one, really. I’m trying my best to refrain from playing counselor here... so, it's not a yes or a no regarding B. It could be, or it might not be, who knows...
2. Not even one of them; Good grief, if I had any say in the matter, I’d at least like to cast a vote for—well, maybe not always against him...
Jose Reyes said:What kind of "spirituality" are we even talking about here? Where on earth are you seeing any "spirituality," Kate Lee12?😛
Good grief... is this forum not considered spiritual? (And I mean that without the quotes 😁)
My question was simply whether what was written was meant as an assertion, or just a momentary bit of info regarding legitimacy? (In response to Gaudrath)
I mean, if it's considered legitimate to just "wait" for the sake of "spirituality," then where is the enlightenment in that... or rather, does that equate to being "spiritual" according to what was stated...? (Or to put it more clearly, does waiting somehow make one more spiritual, or lead to enlightenment?...)
Jack Harris3 said:Kate Lee12... tell me... do you even have a clue what the hell spirituality actually is? 🤔 Kick me with a horseshoe if I’m wrong about this... 😁 No matter who you ask, everyone’s got a different story to tell... 😂
No, like she said herself... everyone is on a completely different wavelength. Look, she’s actually out there writing that this whole school of "waiting" is the only way to finally reach "that"... whatever that is... 😁
As far as I can tell, horses rarely wait around... they simply have too much momentum to just stop mid-stride... 😁
So that we don't have this mentioned... whatever... 🙂
Jose Reyes said:The school of "waiting" has always been a legitimate path for true spirituality...
Based on what you just wrote... are you implying that "enlightenment" has absolutely nothing to do with "spirituality"? (I added extra question marks this time 😁)...
ENLIGHTENED MASTER said:It might be useful for you to focus on just one thing, Kate Lee12... Is the MASTER who is telling you this actually TRUTHFUL, or isn't he?
If he IS, then he isn't "spitting on anyone," he’s simply teaching you all in his own way about things you simply don't understand yet.
If he ISN'T, then again, he isn't "spitting on anyone," he’s just lost his mind and wandered onto our "Forum." Poor guy...
The third analogy is also valid. And if even the TWO of us doubt whether he is a TRUE MASTER before you, he is helping immensely, Kate Lee12...
just for the sake of it: the post title is a few questions, followed by several if-then statements and a single question mark...
I am not doubting; I am certain that I am striving to perceive something that exists outside the "framework" of perception itself, or rather, that I lack the "tools" to perceive it (regardless of how you choose to comment on this, I forgive you in advance 😁)
if teaching consists of forcing people to think, then that is perfectly fine, especially since we "should" stick to this: it doesn't matter if you point someone toward thinking like you, but rather that they think...
ENLIGHTENED MASTER said:Kate Lee12: ________________________ I'm not kidding myself by thinking I have ________________________
So, who was it that messed this all up, you little logic-nerd?
"that which exists—even when everyone claims it exists—is nothing more than an illusion used to trick people into believing they’ve grasped something beyond human comprehension, just because they've 'ascended' a level of consciousness?"
Are you deceiving yourself just so you don't feel like you're deceiving yourself?🙂 😠
No, actually, if you had bothered to take a single second of your time to actually read what was written, you might have realized that the quote was directed at you... personally. I am not one of those people who believes in "reason"... whatever that is...
Similarly, I'm not one of those types who pretends everything is one with the universe just so they can act enlightened while spitting on everyone else for not "getting it"... as if they've reached some peak and we're all just stuck behind... which allows them to dismiss any coherent thought... (an eye for an eye, obviously)
If I were to follow that line of reasoning, I could easily end this whole debate by claiming we're all just fantasizing anyway... and honestly, I won't bother trying to pose questions to anyone else, including myself, if I have to explain it like that... because you can't really define or explain a fantasy...
And whether I'm just plain crazy or not doesn't even matter... because I don't truly exist anyway... though perhaps there's just a "program" running a "simulation" of me...🙂
If I haven't been clear, feel free to ask... and I will try to clarify...
Jose Reyes said:Kate Lee12: _____________________________ When someone claims they’ve reached "the truth," aren't they just kidding themselves? They think they've grasped something far beyond human comprehension, all while patting themselves on the back for climbing some imaginary rung on a ladder of consciousness... _______________________________
That applies perfectly to those self-proclaimed "students" and "masters" who haven't actually experienced THE ILLUMINATION. As for the others... you wouldn't even begin to understand, Kate Lee12.😁 🙂
At least I'm not deluding myself into thinking I possess 😁
Good grief, between how much the terminology has been getting muddled here and how you've dragged in basically every topic from the sub-forum... it feels like everyone is just taking a completely different route to the same destination.
Since a few people are still missing from this conversation, I figured I'd toss in my own little contribution... 😁
Enlightenment is really nothing more than amplifying the light within the darkness of the form we were born into.
Or, to put it another way, could we say 🤔 the following: Enlightenment is; it reveals itself, limited by the "constriction" of the form in which we are "prisoners." Consciousness is; also limited by the "constriction" of the form in which we are "prisoners." Ratio is the "level" of consciousness within which form is "defined" (materially). Spirituality would then be the ability of ratio to "perceive" consciousness.
So, is everything that exists—and everything that claims to exist—just a trick played on ratio, making it believe it has perceived something that is actually beyond its reach, simply because it has "ascended" a level of consciousness?
Anyway, Vorkosigan, nice work on the thought process. 👍 I can see the original poster did a much better job here too. 🙂 😉
I suspect this whole "real" situation is being obscured by the sheer personal bias of these so-called streamers 😁... basically, their own subjectivity and how they perceive themselves... which, let's be honest, probably isn't even close to how everyone else sees them 😁...
It’s the same thing when people try to weigh someone's thoughts or attitudes against their actual capacity for action or reaction... but... what can I even say to you all now? 🤔
So, there I go, rambling again... is that some kind of third category? 😕
Thanks, though you could have just sent over this link where most of what you mentioned is actually written in English... 😁
It’s not like I can say I disagree with David Bohm’s theory, nor was that ever my claim 😁
More importantly, I have always "believed"—and still do—that our entire existence, life, and environment is merely a matter of perception (an artificial construct resulting from the exchange of elementary particle charges)... essentially, what one might call a "vision" of reality is little more than a fantasy (to put it plainly, or as you would say, colloquially) ... 😉
I brought up this exact point once upon a time in a thread about "what is reality?" (on an old forum) ...
What fascinates me beyond that is the precise cause-and-effect relationship between my own consciousness and the "external" stimulus (let's call it an "emitter") of this aforementioned "hologram."
Because, as you yourself wrote, there must be another "source" by which we ourselves (our consciousness, the aforementioned hologram) are defined... right? /Perhaps even a new dimension ...
Of course, we're still left with all sorts of unanswered questions, but let's start with two... What exactly is a hologram—I mean, what is it actually "projected" from? (And I’m not talking about that definition involving eternal fluctuations of spiral light and thought—E.C.) And then there's consciousness. Is it the cause, or just the consequence?
Can I take what you wrote as an affirmative answer to my previous question?😁
Everyone "learns" from whoever happens to be handing them information at that exact moment... whatever it is that actually matters to them personally...
The whole question of motivation is huge when you're deciding what to learn, who to listen to, how and when to dive in. If you actually have the drive or the desire to learn, you need to know where your spirit stands at... you need a baseline for comparison, I suppose...
In that case, the real key is what B. says about "staying true to yourself"... being authentic, looking at yourself through others' eyes, though mostly through your own...
Also, don't fall for those spiritual gurus who claim they've "arrived." As hollowviper72 pointed out, a real teacher isn't some ego-driven commercialist looking to exploit their students...
Good luck with the quest to find yourself... to truly see yourself in your own light... 😉
hollowpilot9, if I’m following your logic here, are you saying that plasma is essentially just a specific "cluster/density/flow" of energy? And through its very "manifestation," it somehow regulates the existence of something that isn't even there... or rather, it provides us—specifically "consciousness," in the end—with information about how it has "manifested" in a way that we, conditionally speaking, "recognize"?
I vaguely recall this topic being discussed somewhere in the fog of my memory, though I don't remember the specifics, since I wasn't really "navigating" these waters back then... 😁
Taylor Alvarez6, I agree with the question. It really is the core of any attempt to grasp our own existence and, ultimately, the fundamental "seed" of religion itself...
Alright, if matter isn't what defines things, then what actually is?
(If we pivot back to that last point hollowpilot9 laid out so elegantly... what exactly is our visual brain doing here?)
So, "reality" is basically defined by our grasp of plasma—whatever that may be. Though, I suppose some folks in this thread might feel a bit slighted by that, thinking plasma is essentially the "soul"... which, based on this logic, would imply the soul is just a component of it.
Taylor Alvarez6 said:it doesn't even consist of anything at all....
👍
Aren't we just talking about this the whole time? 😁
And there are even fewer quarks and tau particles... 😁
Everything just falls under the scope of perception, doesn't it? Or maybe how we perceive size as a dimension that's physically or materially determined... right?
If everything is ultimately determined by thought or an idea, then what is that very thing actually made of?