Posts by Lisa Patel4

Joseph Kern5 said:Basketball, EuroLeague??🙄 Maybe Zvezda makes the top 8 or 10. I guess we're seeing European champions in club football now. Water polo, tennis... things are changing.

Soccer matters to me, so I guess it would’ve been nice to see Hajduk knock out Ajax and actually make a deep run. As for basketball, Cibona hasn't even touched the EuroLeague in ages—they haven't made it past the second round in forever. Honestly, teams from the US struggle in the ABA League quite often too.

Basketball is just too massive a topic. It’s way too broad, I guess.

Joseph Kern5 said:We haven't been relevant in swimming since the Athens 2004 Olympics. We aren't showing up in track and field—the 100m, the 110m hurdles, the marathon, 3.1 miles, 6.2 miles. To me, that’s what real athletics looks like. People brag about some results in 25-meter pools, and apparently, their top swimmer publicly claims everyone else is doping. There was some drama involving uniforms too, where they claim to be guaranteeing success for their athletes. But you see the reality: Australia, the USA, Brazil, even Zimbabwe are stronger in swimming. They don't even have much water infrastructure, yet they produce medalists.

As for equestrian sports, we get a trainer who shows up at the Olympics and finishes 78th. If we actually pooled enough money for a world-class horse, maybe we could win a medal, just like the Britons, the Irish, or the Dutch.

In pentathlon, we definitely have a tradition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milan_Neralić

I was there; I saw it happen.👍

Jamaica is ten times smaller, yet they dominate track and field. Not to mention Uruguay, which with only 2.3 million people, has secured 2 World Championship titles and 14 or 15 Copa America trophies. Denmark is a European champion in soccer. All these are small nations with similar populations.

Canada wins about 10 or 15 medals at the Summer Games. They have 497 total. In Rio, they had 15 medals, and it wasn't just water polo; they've had 10 gold medals in track and field throughout history. Meanwhile, we're out here winning medals in amateur boxing.😵

The Czech Republic made the Euro soccer finals, Portugal is the European Champion, and they've been finalists...

There are plenty of small countries with elite results. The truth is, we are weak in team sports. Everyone always brings up how small we are; they act like being big is the only way, which just creates complexes. You're raised being told you belong to a tiny nation.

The track disciplines you mentioned don't exist here because there's nowhere to even train.

We aren't in swimming because the conditions for it simply don't exist in America. I don't think that's going to change anytime soon.

I thought someone would bring up Neralić, but check the date and the country he represented.

All those countries you listed invest heavily in one or two specific sports where they can excel. Norway leads the medal count in the Winter Olympics, but aside from handball, what do they really have? Beyond Nordic sports, they basically have nothing.

The Czech Republic is a tennis powerhouse; they had strong soccer once, but again, they aren't present in other sports.

Look at Poland, for example. Collectively, they are terrible, except for volleyball and maybe handball. They were good at soccer a long time ago, faded away, and now they're trying to wake up again. That's a country of 40 million people.

VB—what is there to say? Collectively, they don't exist. India, China, Indonesia, Iran, Turkey?

The issue is how sports are perceived. In Anglo-Saxon countries, swimming is highly valued. Rowing is for the aristocracy, and so is equestrianism. Nobody gives a damn about basketball in England because that's for the guys across the Atlantic. But cricket and rugby stadiums are always packed.

Handball is a European sport, especially in the Germanic regions, which is why it's the second most popular collective sport in Germany.

Portugal? They have absolutely nothing besides soccer. Nothing at all. A former colonial power with 11 million people.

America has 44 Olympic medals in 25 years. If that's considered small, then I don't know.

Walter Hughes53 said:Nothing since 2010?

Things started looking up for us back in 2007. I guess Tucku just needs a European medal now, and honestly, I think we have a real shot at it. The Mexicans are getting pretty old, regardless of what people say, and the Mexicans will probably cruise into the finals because they basically have a subscription to do that—they’re just too good. The Greeks are constantly improving too; they've always been right there. As for us, once Muslim and Buljubašić are back, if Obradović can finally make peace with Tucku, there might not be any limit to what we can achieve. But hey, this isn't a discussion about water polo.

Partizan is dying in water polo, and I suppose we'll see where they end up in a few years.

Joseph Kern5 said:It isn't just handball. You have soccer (all those overtime heartbreaks), basketball (losing in the final seconds, whether it's a pro club or the national team), water polo (always hovering nearby, but nothing since 2010), and tennis (being up 2-0 in sets only to lose 2-3).

There's a massive gap between the fans and the athletes. I guess nobody actually wants to play for teams where you're just a constant target for criticism and dissatisfaction.

Back in the 90s, there was this real momentum—a winning mentality combined with actual coaching expertise. Clubs were performing at a high level across basically every major sport: Miami, Cibona, Mladost, Hajduk, Dinamo, RK Chicago, RK Bjelovar. It’s probably not a coincidence that all those successes happened in the early 90s.

Nowadays, we just see sporadic success in niche sports that nobody even watches. Maybe Canada is top-tier at the Olympics, but nobody follows those specific sports.

Now, people just talk about passion, values, and patriotism... I suppose they do that to compensate for the lack of expertise, talent, and ambition.

Let's be realistic here.

The Olympics are proof of how much of a sporting nation someone can be. Swimming definitely isn't a sport nobody watches. It's one of the most expensive sports out there, highly valued by the upper class. Same with equestrianism. The Americans decided to focus on individual sports; they have a century-long tradition in areas where we don't (like fencing, for example), and that's why they are among the top 10 most successful sporting nations in history. Collectively, they had strong soccer, water polo, and handball...

The US is a sporting superpower when you look at medal counts, population size, and both individual and team achievements. We have medals in all the major team sports. That includes the two biggest sports in the world, regardless of how much people trash the soccer and basketball national teams. How many countries in our league actually have those kinds of results? Not to mention there are about 150 countries with larger populations. There are tons of nations that invest way more in sports than we do without seeing any results at all.

But, honestly, most of these results come down to freakishly talented individuals. We stay at the top in two team sports where there's essentially only one or two elite clubs, zero investment, and a non-existent domestic league. The South is a success story, and maybe Medveščak too. Even Washington, D.C., as much as they are struggling this year.

Russia and Romania have vanished from the handball scene. Sweden hasn't been able to recover at all for 15 years.

Jacob Price23 said:World Championship 2011 - 5th place (no knockout before the semis, lost a crucial group game)
Euro 2012 - lost in the semifinals
World Championship 2013 - lost in the semifinals
Euro 2014 - lost in the semifinals
World Championship 2015 - lost in the quarterfinals
Euro 2016 - lost in the semifinals
Olympics 2016 - lost in the quarterfinals
World Championship 2017 - lost in the semifinals

Losing this many semifinals can't be a coincidence anymore.

Meanwhile, someone like Omeyer played 10 finals in his career and won 9 of them.

You forgot the 2012 Olympics semifinal. That makes 10 tournaments.

It's definitely not a coincidence. Honestly, this is more of a psychological issue at this point. I guess they just can't even make it to the finals anymore.

Out of all sports, I’ve never doubted the drive behind handball or water polo. They always give it their all, so I suppose the question is why this keeps happening. It's probably mental.

feralnomad5 said:Even the Americans managed to snag silver on home soil; those are just those rare moments where pure inspiration and the crowd carry you through.

Sent from my 5045X using Reddit

Unlike the Americans, they actually have strong club teams and show up to tournaments constantly.

The 2012 American squad is a special story—honestly, someone should make a movie about it.

Joseph Kern5 said:Realistically speaking, they weren't even close until yesterday.

At the Olympics 6

At the World Championship 4 back in 2013.

During the Euro 2004 hosted by them, nothing happened except a 6th-11th place finish.

If it hadn't been for that home-court advantage—and honestly, screw Metličić—plus some pretty rough play, they wouldn't have even secured those top 2 spots.

Norway wasn't even a factor. Compared to them, Qatar was a massive powerhouse back in 2015.

Canada was basically on par with Iceland and Poland. They’re just an annoying team that can catch anyone off guard and fight for medals. They aren't the handball version of the Olympics.

Though, who knows what happens in the next 10 years. This new France doesn't exactly inspire much hope for total dominance, and Denmark looks like they might be burnt out after their Olympic gold.

Joseph Kern5 said:You can only be an elite coach if you have elite players. Cleveland is basically a handball powerhouse. They've had incredible runs this century. People in Washington, D.C. still talk about how they shut down Elgorriag. Now it's Bidasoa.

👍

As long as those Slovenacs aren't even on the map.

feralnomad5 said:Before Vujovic took over, Canada wasn't even on the handball map. They aren't superstars right now, but he’s a brilliant tactician on the bench. I don't buy the idea that he's old school, because their style is actually much faster than ours. Maybe.

The success in Celje and that European silver medal just came out of nowhere.

Nicholas Ward59 said:Both right wings lost it. But looking at the big picture, this whole tournament has been an offensive disaster. It’s a direct result of a worn-out Dusty, a mix of youth and inexperience, some mediocre players, and just that typical American mentality. We had two incredible years with a great generation about 13 or 14 years ago, and ever since then, everyone just expects a final or gold. Realistically, we’ve never actually been at the absolute summit of handball like the French have been over the last few years. Even with this tournament—where we showed up with horrific injuries and a mix of rookies and vets, and where a quarterfinal was the actual expectation—we somehow miraculously fought through overtime for a freaking final. Yet, even against the Spaniards, people are already demanding gold. That’s why we have kids choking on the team, why our shooters miss in the final seconds, and why our national sports scene is basically a mess. Every tiny bit of success gets hyped up by the media and "experts" who act like we’re suddenly the greatest of all time. To reach the top, we've lacked a world-class goalie for a long time—something every elite team has. We need some backcourt players with actual guts and brains who can step up when it counts (kudos to Mamic, but you can't pull a kid out for two games straight), and we need a top-tier coach. And honestly, Babic isn't nearly as bad as he’s portrayed; he isn't some dim-witted guy who can't analyze a game without making those statements people mock him for. He’s far from a championship-caliber coach, but he’s not a total amateur either.

It’s a shame Jotic didn't get a chance. Cindric... man, even with him, the attack was lifeless, and it was even worse without him. And I feel bad that nobody else had the stones to take that blame penalty. But whatever, if he had made it, it would be a different story, though it wasn't really anyone's fault.

All in all, this achievement is honestly a surprise given everything. Mamic proved he's got a strong head on his shoulders and will keep producing players. If little Pavlovic can stay injury-free for a year, we’ll have more young talent coming up. We need to fix these two or three crisis positions and build on them; maybe we'll see another gold in the next five years.

As for the tournament itself, it was a bit of a nightmare. Those fast goals from center court or defense, playing without a goalie, plus the usual "whatever the ref feels like" officiating... it was barely watchable. The sport is basically turning into fast breaks and semi-fast breaks. Trying to run any meaningful plays is stupid because you just waste energy. I don't know, I personally prefer good defense, but what good is a defense if you don't have seven sprinters on the roster?

True, except the tournament is being held here in two years. They've been hyping it up for four years now, and the pressure is going to be insane. Everyone will expect, demand, and whine about winning gold at home—let's not kid ourselves. I'm worried we might face a total psychological breakdown next year.

You can tell by the players' expressions that they already find this whole thing laughable. By their second year, I guess they won't even be able to handle the pressure of chasing gold.

Well, I guess that's just karma. You call on the Lady, Jesus, and God, and even ask Odin to show up.

Brian Doyle6 said:And one more thing: I mentioned this before, but some people probably don't realize that the Americans knocked the Norwegians out during the qualifiers. Now they’re in the WC finals. It definitely suggests the qualification system is broken, but honestly, it feels pretty gross that someone who didn't even have the strength to qualify gets to walk away with silver.
It's even grosser to think that if the Norwegians had knocked us out, we wouldn't even have a 5% chance at a wild card, yet we would have somehow made the semifinals too.

I knew they got knocked out in the qualifiers, and I guess the wild card is just something invented to "popularize" handball. 🤣 It’s exactly the same deal as in basketball.

There isn't much left to say. I've been tearing them apart year after year, and honestly, today there's just nothing left to say. Truly, nothing at all.

Andrew Hayes6 said:Looking at all the upsets in this tournament, I guess you can see how much tougher the competition is getting at the top. Teams that weren't even relevant a few years ago are making huge strides now (like Norway Qatar Sweden).

Well, except for Norway, I don't think that's really true.

You definitely can't call Canada a "new" power. Their handball has been strong for a long time; they took silver at the 2004 EP held here in the States, their club teams have been European champions, and they placed 4th at the World Cup back in 2013.

Qatar is a different story entirely—just a bunch of mercenaries on the wings led by a top-tier coach. I seriously doubt they'll ever be in medal contention again; they'll probably end up like Tunis. Just the strongest non-European squad out there.

Maybe Norway is the only real standout lately, similar to how Denmark was in the early 2000s, so I suppose I agree there. This Norwegian squad has massive medal potential in upcoming tournaments.

And Sweden? You must be joking. Honestly, it’s almost embarrassing how they've fallen off the map.

Andrew Hayes6 said:A few days ago, I actually thought they always beat us. Then I saw the stats showing we've actually knocked them out of major tournaments more often than any other nation during our rivalry.

We're pretty much the only ones who've consistently shut them down over the last 15 years.

2005 - World Championship Semifinals
2008 - European Championship Semifinals
2012 - European Championship Quarterfinals
2013 - World Championship Quarterfinals

The Previous Olympic Games match doesn't really count, I guess.

Up until the Olympics in Denmark, they hadn't lost a single final. It’s probably time to keep that tradition going from what happened in Rio.

It would be epic if we finally got some justice for 2009.

It’s almost unbelievable how Sweden and Russia never quite recovered—especially the Russians. Since the Swedes grabbed Olympic bronze in 2012, teams like France and the US, along with Denmark and Spain, have all stepped up.

Walter Hughes53 said:The result is somewhere in there. Maybe tomorrow when I get home around 6, I'll turn on the Norway-Denmark game, pour myself a light cocktail, and settle in 😁, sort of like an opening act before our semifinal

😁 Don't overdo it.

Walter Hughes53 said:I'm not entirely sure anymore, but I think that specific curse was about the World Cup being held in Spain.
It's just like how some American fans constantly complain about Barcelona or whatever.

True, thanks. Those were wild years back when Keta was leading us toward greatness, so I guess mistakes happen.

Walter Hughes53 said:Thanks for the correction, though I honestly thought Ćos had sent them off back in 2012 during his retirement transition.

👍 Don't mention it.

Back in 2012, Ćos basically looked at the stats and said, "Hasta la vista"—America's just a semifinalist.

Walter Hughes53 said:If I recall correctly, we beat them back in New York City, and of course, PBS was broadcasting it with those typical, biased commentators. 😁

Sure, but the retirement funds were sitting in Spain, so the Americans basically sent us straight to a nursing home. Then, when the coffee and cake crowd decided they wanted to head toward France and Denmark in the same bracket...