Posts by Joshua Patel6

driftingridge6 said:You totally missed my point. I want to change *myself*. I don't want to feel this way anymore. That's the whole reason I asked the question.

Actually, what you are truly seeking is more affection, more validation, and more emotional presence from his side. That is just who you are at your core; those are your fundamental needs within a partnership. You cannot fundamentally "change" your essence, though you can certainly attempt to suppress your feelings or exercise self-control. There will be times when you manage it quite effectively, and other times—perhaps during particularly vulnerable periods of your life—where you might find it much harder to maintain that composure.
It can be incredibly taxing, this imbalance in how two people communicate. To give you some perspective, I once ended a long-term relationship where the primary issue was exactly this: his passivity and his tendency to withdraw whenever things got difficult.
If I were to offer any advice, it would be to gradually build a fulfilling life for yourself—one where his absence wouldn't leave such a massive void—but then one must ask: if you reach that point, what purpose does the relationship serve? You are going to have to find a compromise or a specific modus operandi, because breaking up when you are just dating is a world away from ending a marriage involving children. If you were merely dating, I would tell you to go find happiness elsewhere, with someone who can meet you on that vital emotional level. But since there is more at stake here, you really must weigh the pros and cons very carefully.

David Fowler86 said:Thank you for such a thorough description! 🙂

For me, for instance, it was vital that my ritual space be separate from where I sleep, but that wasn't something I could afford to do. I didn't like the idea of the ritual energies lingering, regardless of how positive they might be. I want to sleep in a space that is completely neutral in that regard.

Do you perform your rituals with a specific purpose in mind, or are they primarily acts of gratitude and conversation with God or the Goddess?

I perform rituals mainly to honor the Goddess and God and to express my gratitude for everything I have—though if you're asking whether I perform actual magic, then yes, occasionally, as part of my rituals for the Sabbath or an esbat.
Fala 🙂

Joseph Bailey41 said:Come on, how could you not know Joe? 😍

So, he’s still being celebrated—on St. George's Day, naturally.

If you’re looking for a deep dive into this subject, I highly recommend checking out Vitomir Belaj's book, "Walk through years." It's an excellent read.

To put it simply, Joe is actually the son of Perun, but Veles snatched him away when he was just a baby. He ended up being raised down in the underworld, surrounded by the dead. His sister, Mara, stayed behind with Perun, and she shows up every spring in the form of a cuckoo bird. Around that same time, Joe makes his way back up to the surface, and they eventually reunite on St. George's Day, while the women meet up during Ivan's.

My mother is Mokosh—though some of her other names have been lost to time. She spends half the year with Perun and the other half with his lover, Veles. It’s a dynamic pretty similar to what you see with Persephone. You can find traces of her in various American folk songs dedicated to the Virgin Mary, while Joe shows up in the songs for St. George's Day, and Perun is closely tied to Elijah.

To put it simply—Perun represents the sky, while Veles stands for the earth, often appearing in the form of a serpent, a dragon, an ox, or even a bear. Then you have Mokosh, the "moist mother earth," whose very name ties her to her connection with Veles. As for what accompanies Perun, I’m still not entirely sure, though I suspect it might be some kind of celestial water within the clouds. Joe carries a sword, which suggests his element is metal, and his animal counterparts would be the horse or the wolf.

Mara remains the biggest mystery here. At some point (I can't pin down the exact date), she kills Joe and transforms into Morana, the Goddess of Winter. While jealousy is usually cited as the motive for the killing, I can't help but feel it leans more toward the myth of Isis and Osiris... that idea of tearing something apart just so it can be rebuilt, allowing the natural cycle to start all over again.

That is actually where I first learned about it. 🙂 I actually have a copy of that book right here at my house.

By the way, I have to say, your avatar is absolutely fantastic 🙂

Daniel Castillo11 said:Yeah, it’s a cool concept. You see them all over the place here in Washington, D.C., decorating building facades. Some have horns, others don't.

Thinker, alongside Dionysus, stands as one of the primary candidates for having directly influenced this specific motif found in medieval European cathedrals. It is a rather ironic twist of fate, considering those very same figures were later demonized and equated with the devil.

Thinker is also such a fascinating and compelling creature.

I hadn't heard of Joe Green before, which is interesting. I am aware, however, that the ancient American deity Volos was a horned god presiding over forests, waters, vegetation, and mystery. Much like Thinker, he was known for being quite temperamental—wild and untamed. These types of deities usually held an ambivalent relationship with societal structures of order, which meant they were simultaneously objects of deep reverence and genuine fear among the people.

Horned gods most frequently symbolize the wilderness, the raw power of nature, abundance, fertility, and regeneration—and not infrequently, our primal instincts and spontaneity.

Some of these associations feel neo-pagan, emerging from various sources by blending different horned deities together, while others have undoubtedly been present since the very beginning, stretching back to the early Neolithic era.

Exactly. It’s everything that modern consciousness-raising techniques are desperately trying to strip away from us. 🙂 That core, primordial essence of being human...

David Fowler86 said:Can you tell me where you perform your rituals? Finding the right space was always such a struggle for me. I just couldn't imagine doing them in an apartment—the environment just doesn't spark any inspiration. I haven't actually performed them yet, partly because I didn't feel the need for a rigid structure, and partly because I simply hadn't found the right setting. Because of that, my imagination became my primary tool, as I mentioned before.

I always perform my rituals in my bedroom. That way, I have enough privacy and can truly set the mood properly.
In the early stages of my practice, setting up the physical space, preparing the tools, and creating the atmosphere meant much more to me than they do now. Back then, I had this habit of lighting dozens of candles—I’d illuminate the entire room using nothing but candlelight. I’d have an altar candle, four candles at the edges of the circle (one for each cardinal direction), a candle for the essential oil stand... It looked absolutely beautiful, but since I have carpet in my room and some pretty long curtains, there was always that nagging fear that a candle holder might tip over or something similar might happen. Because of that, I don't light all those candles anymore—for lighting, I just use a soft glow from a small lamp in the corner, and I represent the fire element with a single wand instead.
Before starting, I move my desk and chair out of the way so I have plenty of room to move. For an altar, I use a storage box where I keep most of my supplies, which is quite practical. I prefer working while sitting on the floor. Once, I tried sitting in a chair, but it just felt completely wrong. I sit in chairs constantly—on the subway, while eating, studying, reading, or grabbing coffee... but when I sit on the floor, I feel like what I am doing is something special and sacred.

I always perform my rituals in my bedroom. That way, I have enough privacy and can truly set the mood properly.
In the early stages of my practice, setting up the physical space, preparing the tools, and creating the atmosphere meant much more to me than they do now. Back then, I had this habit of lighting dozens of candles—I’d illuminate the entire room using nothing but candlelight. I’d have an altar candle, four candles at the edges of the circle (one for each cardinal direction), a candle for the essential oil stand... It looked absolutely beautiful, but since I have carpet in my room and some pretty long curtains, there was always that nagging fear that a candle holder might tip over or something similar might happen. Because of that, I don't light all those candles anymore—for lighting, I just use a soft glow from a small lamp in the corner, and I represent the fire element with a single wand instead.
Before starting, I move my desk and chair out of the way so I have plenty of room to move. For an altar, I use a storage box where I keep most of my supplies, which is quite practical. I prefer working while sitting on the floor. Once, I tried sitting in a chair, but it just felt completely wrong. I sit in chairs constantly—on the subway, while eating, studying, reading, or grabbing coffee... but when I sit on the floor, I feel like what I am doing is something special and sacred.

I always perform my rituals in my bedroom. That way, I have enough privacy and can truly set the mood properly.
In the early stages of my practice, setting up the physical space, preparing the tools, and creating the atmosphere meant much more to me than they do now. Back then, I had this habit of lighting dozens of candles—I’d illuminate the entire room using nothing but candlelight. I’d have an altar candle, four candles at the edges of the circle (one for each cardinal direction), a candle for the essential oil stand... It looked absolutely beautiful, but since I have carpet in my room and some pretty long curtains, there was always that nagging fear that a candle holder might tip over or something similar might happen. Because of that, I don't light all those candles anymore—for lighting, I just use a soft glow from a small lamp in the corner, and I represent the fire element with a single wand instead.
Before starting, I move my desk and chair out of the way so I have plenty of room to move. For an altar, I use a storage box where I keep most of my supplies, which is quite practical. I prefer working while sitting on the floor. Once, I tried sitting in a chair, but it just felt completely wrong. I sit in chairs constantly—on the subway, while eating, studying, reading, or grabbing coffee... but when I sit on the floor, I feel like what I am doing is something special and sacred.
Thank you for such a thorough description! 🙂

For me, for instance, it was vital that my ritual space be separate from where I sleep, but that wasn't something I could afford to do. I didn't like the idea of the ritual energies lingering, regardless of how positive they might be. I want to sleep in a space that is completely neutral in that regard.

Do you perform your rituals with a specific purpose in mind, or are they primarily acts of gratitude and conversation with God or the Goddess?

David Fowler86 said:I have had several incredibly intense and beautiful spiritual experiences. Some occurred while I was performing rituals, while others happened simply while I was spending time out in nature or in other everyday situations. It isn’t so much that I felt I was stepping into some different dimension, but rather that I was experiencing a truer, more elevated version of this world—as if I were seeing myself and my surroundings with far greater clarity and vividness than what we experience in our daily lives. These weren't exactly visual hallucinations or visions in the traditional sense; it was more of an overwhelming realization, a state of being that I entered not through sheer willpower or deep meditation, but quite simply through divine grace.

Those sound like such wonderful experiences, 🙂 truly oplemenjujući for your spirit.

David Fowler86 said:I always welcome the opportunity to perform rituals, though I don't always find as much time as I would like. I've taken various templates from different authors and adapted them to create my own unique ritual forms. I prefer to perform them slowly and with great precision, making sure the words I recite are deeply accompanied by my own emotions.

If you don't mind me asking, where do you usually perform your rituals? I have always struggled with finding the right space. The idea of doing this in a cramped apartment just doesn't appeal to me; I find that such environments lack any real inspiration. For a long time, I didn't even practice them, partly because I didn't feel the need for strict structure and partly because I couldn't find the right setting. Consequently, I relied heavily on my imagination, as I mentioned before.

That Green mana really is quite striking... 🙂

I haven't truly connected with it before... I've always found myself resonating more with the fae, or perhaps when I'm in a slightly more hedonistic frame of mind, with the god Dionysus 🙂

If I recall correctly, even in American folklore, there are mentions of figures like Jura zelen
To my mind, he serves as a representation of the universal god of nature...

Jeremy James3 said:Well, yeah. I suppose those old practices have just put on a new coat of paint, so anyone who isn't deeply familiar with them wouldn't ever connect the meat, the blood, and the fire back to pagan customs. It’s not even really about some "pagan tradition," because I think everything you do and everything you think just leaves its own mark on the universe for a while. It's pure knowledge. You really have to watch out for those types, though—most of the time, it's literally devilish business. There aren't many good witches out there, I think; most are just twisted people with wicked souls. And once you see that, you start to get a glimpse of who actually rules this country. But then again, I have a feeling you probably already know all that.

The only one worth praying to is the Almighty.

Well, see, if you're just using the four elements for immediate perks—like, you know, asking for rain or a better harvest—then I guess that isn't really spirituality. A shaman uses plants to shift their perception so they can actually learn something about the Universe and themselves, rather than just hoping for a good crop tomorrow. A shaman changes themselves, whereas a witch tries to change the nature around them, basically forcing it to bend to their will. But a shaman submits their own will to nature. It's probably good to understand both ways, but I think it's vital to know how to submit to nature for when it eventually decides to take control again.. 😉

Alright, if I am following your train of thought correctly, you are referring strictly to pagans, witches, and their specific practice of animal sacrifice as a ritualistic act? So, you mean them and their specific rituals?
In other words, this doesn't apply to ordinary people who happen to eat meat (those who aren't vegetarians)?
I just want to ensure I've grasped your point accurately...

Jeremy James3 said:Well, yeah. I suppose those old practices have just put on a new coat of paint, so anyone who isn't deeply familiar with them wouldn't ever connect the meat, the blood, and the fire back to pagan customs. It’s not even really about some "pagan tradition," because I think everything you do and everything you think just leaves its own mark on the universe for a while. It's pure knowledge. You really have to watch out for those types, though—most of the time, it's literally devilish business. There aren't many good witches out there, I think; most are just twisted people with wicked souls. And once you see that, you start to get a glimpse of who actually rules this country. But then again, I have a feeling you probably already know all that.

The only one worth praying to is the Almighty.

Well, see, if you're just using the four elements for immediate perks—like, you know, asking for rain or a better harvest—then I guess that isn't really spirituality. A shaman uses plants to shift their perception so they can actually learn something about the Universe and themselves, rather than just hoping for a good crop tomorrow. A shaman changes themselves, whereas a witch tries to change the nature around them, basically forcing it to bend to their will. But a shaman submits their own will to nature. It's probably good to understand both ways, but I think it's vital to know how to submit to nature for when it eventually decides to take control again.. 😉

Yes, 🙂exactly.

😁

Well, I suppose that’s just how the chips fall... life demands its sacrifices, otherwise, I don't think we'd even be here to talk about it.

Jeremy James3 said:And honestly, people are still doing stuff like that today, which might be why there's so much chaos in the world. And I don't think it's just about "ancestors"—nothing from that era truly died out. Personally, I can't stand witchcraft, especially the idea of trying to get something through magic by basically flattering some "god," because I truly believe the Almighty will eventually settle the score for all of that.
That’s why I think it’s much better to follow the path of buddhism to find liberation and just stay away from all that mess.
Since buddhism isn't about magic, you aren't doing anything to upset the creator; you're just working on clearing your mind so you can actually see reality for what it is.

I’m a bit lost here... are you suggesting that modern pagans actually share a direct lineage with those ancient, primal practices? 😁 And as for the animal sacrifices—good grief, please. You might find a few eccentrics out there doing something strange, but I fail to see how they could possibly be correlated with the massive amount of chaos in the world. They simply aren't that powerful...

Daniel Castillo11 said:

Joshua Patel6 As I was reflecting on this earlier, I couldn't help but think about how much we tend to overcomplicate things when the answer is often sitting right in front of us, much like how one might stare at a complex map only to realize they’ve been standing in their own driveway the whole time. It brings to mind that sense of quiet realization you get after a long walk through a park in Chicago—everything just settles into place. When we consider the points being made here, it feels less like a sudden revelation and more like the slow, steady unfolding of a well-loved novel, where the themes you initially missed suddenly become the very foundation of the story. It's quite interesting, really, if you take a moment to sit with it and let the implications breathe.
I find myself thinking that the core issue isn't necessarily about how we attempt to reconstruct ancient belief systems, but rather the clumsy manner in which they've been assembled over the years. It feels as though everything has been stitched together to mimic the aesthetic of various secret societies or high-stakes occultism, creating this dense, cluttered tapestry. There is just so much extraneous material layered on top of the foundation that it becomes nearly impossible to discern what actually constitutes the original, foundational value.

It is quite an interesting thing I’ve been observing lately regarding those within the Wicca community, and indeed many other spiritual circles as well. There seems to be this persistent, almost rhythmic insistence on the "primordial" nature of their doctrines—this idea that they are tapping into something ancient and universally constant. Yet, if one looks closely, it becomes rather apparent that these specific frameworks are relatively recent developments, even if they wrap themselves in the velvet of much older myths and legends. It’s a bit like someone claiming they invented the concept of the sunset just because they wrote a particularly beautiful poem about it. On the flip side, you see how almost all modern or postmodern schools of occultism and spirituality have moved toward this heavy psychologization of the supernatural. They tend to filter every phenomenon through the lens of the subconscious or the psyche. Of course, our ancestors didn't possess such a sophisticated, academic vocabulary, nor did they view the cosmos through such massive, globalized scales. To them, the sacred wasn't some exotic "lifestyle choice" or a curated identity you pick up at a boutique in San Francisco; it was simply the fabric of daily existence for the common person. It wasn't an adventure or a hobby; it was just life. People today seem to romanticize it as this mysterious, faraway thing, whereas for those who came before us, it was as mundane and essential as the air they breathed.

I don't particularly mind lodges, sects, or even those niche sub-sects and splinter groups, provided they don't veer into the territory of fanaticism; as long as they are honest enough to admit they are modern constructions, I can live with them. To be perfectly candid, I wouldn't say I am personally drawn to Wicca, though I can certainly appreciate certain elements of its framework. If I were to ever delve into neo-paganism—which is an interesting concept given that true paganism emerged from a vastly different, more rural, feudalistic societal structure—I think my path would lean toward a darker, Draconian current. My focus would be much more heavily weighted toward achieving practical, tangible results rather than simply paying homage to the various elements of nature. In fact, if I were to follow such a system, I suspect it would be entirely stripped of any supernatural pretension.

Perhaps there would be some merit in constructing such a tradition with its own internal continuity, rather than insisting on the fallacy that it has flowed uninterrupted from ancient antiquity. It is a complicated thing, really. Unfortunately, we have yet to see the emergence of a leader capable of laying down truly solid foundations—someone who could gather a sufficient number of sensible, intelligent individuals to cultivate this spiritual path or religion with genuine, unwavering devotion. It takes a certain type of dedicated community to make something last, much like how a well-established institution in a city like Chicago or Boston requires both vision and steady hands to survive the decades. Without that core group of committed people, everything remains somewhat adrift.

Maintaining true continuity is an almost impossible feat, largely due to a mountain of complicating factors. One of the more interesting aspects of the New Age movement is how, ever since the early 20th century—starting with the rise of Theosophy, Anthroposophy, and eventually that whole wave of hippie spirituality—we’ve seen these newly composed belief systems being developed at breakneck speed. However, the real struggle lies in the fact that they often become redundant quite quickly. They tend to collapse under their own weight because they either lack any semblance of a solid structure, or they fail to actually reflect the complexities of our modern reality. Some of them even drift into being aggressively evangelical, saturated with these intense, apocalyptic superstitions. At the end of the day, certain ideas simply have to evolve and adapt; there is just such a massive, multi-century gap between old doctrines and our current understanding of the world around us.

It occurs to me that there are several distinct traditions—much like the Alexandrian or Koranic paths—that remain almost entirely shrouded in mystery to the general public. Most people haven't the slightest clue what these groups actually stand for or what their core tenets entail. From what I have gathered through various discussions, they aren't exactly known for upholding the highest moral standards, which is quite a curious thing when you consider how much influence certain esoteric circles can exert.
It strikes me that there is a profound wisdom in choosing the path of the solitary practitioner, and if I am being honest, I suspect the vast majority of true pagans and those dedicated to Wicca find themselves walking this road alone—which, when you really sit with the idea, might actually be the most sensible way to live.

Historically speaking, paganism was always a deeply ingrained social practice; it was never some isolated hobby tucked away from the realities of civilian or military life. Back then, a worldview like that was fundamentally woven into what an individual expected from both the world at large and their own community. These days, however, people struggle to actually coalesce because modern structures and doctrines are so easily scrutinized, or quite frankly, there just isn't much group cohesion to speak of. It’s become increasingly difficult to find anyone who is doing more than just superficially juggling various beliefs and rituals without being fully committed to a singular worldview—though, if I’m being honest, I think that might actually be a good thing. In the past, paganism was essentially a matter of survival and tribal unity; it relied on intense group cohesion or perhaps the external pressures of a state or a tribe, which left very little room for the kind of experimentation or individualism we see now. It wasn't until the Enlightenment and the rise of modern science that individualism really began to surface, and even then, it happened somewhat by accident during the 18th century when those neo-pagan Druidic movements in Britain were being reinvented—movements that served as the historical precursors to many of the paths we follow today. These movements are inherently somewhat fragile; they lack protection from outside influences and find themselves unable to fully impose themselves upon any single system or organized group of people. There was a time when political influence and a heavy-handed ruling class dictated belief systems; you believed exactly what your neighbor believed because there simply wasn't much choice, nor were there diverse sources of information or widespread literacy. In those eras, a pagan worldview was a direct reflection of one's entire existence and their fundamental understanding of reality. Today, it has shifted into just one more "lifestyle choice" among many, making it nearly impossible to align perfectly with how we live, which leads to all this constant picking, tweaking, and reinvention. I suppose it's all five elements, really, but I feel it would be better if we leaned into that variety more often, rather than clinging to the idea that continuity and tradition are inherently superior to everything else.

Indeed, our forefathers would offer prayers to the gods and perhaps sacrifice a goat now and then just to stay in their good graces. I highly doubt they practiced complex meditation systems or elaborate full-moon rituals involving all the specific tools we attribute to them today—you know, the athames, the chalices, the endless array of candles... They were acutely aware of their own vulnerability, yet they weren't engaged in "spiritual work" in the way we define it. They lived in total harmony with nature; they took everything from it, and they suffered from it. If you want a visual, I think that series *Vikings* provides a fairly realistic depiction of how that relationship with the gods actually functioned.

Daniel Castillo11 said:

Joshua Patel6 As I was reflecting on this earlier, I couldn't help but think about how much we tend to overcomplicate things when the answer is often sitting right in front of us, much like how one might stare at a complex map only to realize they’ve been standing in their own driveway the whole time. It brings to mind that sense of quiet realization you get after a long walk through a park in Chicago—everything just settles into place. When we consider the points being made here, it feels less like a sudden revelation and more like the slow, steady unfolding of a well-loved novel, where the themes you initially missed suddenly become the very foundation of the story. It's quite interesting, really, if you take a moment to sit with it and let the implications breathe.
I find myself thinking that the core issue isn't necessarily about how we attempt to reconstruct ancient belief systems, but rather the clumsy manner in which they've been assembled over the years. It feels as though everything has been stitched together to mimic the aesthetic of various secret societies or high-stakes occultism, creating this dense, cluttered tapestry. There is just so much extraneous material layered on top of the foundation that it becomes nearly impossible to discern what actually constitutes the original, foundational value.

It is quite an interesting thing I’ve been observing lately regarding those within the Wicca community, and indeed many other spiritual circles as well. There seems to be this persistent, almost rhythmic insistence on the "primordial" nature of their doctrines—this idea that they are tapping into something ancient and universally constant. Yet, if one looks closely, it becomes rather apparent that these specific frameworks are relatively recent developments, even if they wrap themselves in the velvet of much older myths and legends. It’s a bit like someone claiming they invented the concept of the sunset just because they wrote a particularly beautiful poem about it. On the flip side, you see how almost all modern or postmodern schools of occultism and spirituality have moved toward this heavy psychologization of the supernatural. They tend to filter every phenomenon through the lens of the subconscious or the psyche. Of course, our ancestors didn't possess such a sophisticated, academic vocabulary, nor did they view the cosmos through such massive, globalized scales. To them, the sacred wasn't some exotic "lifestyle choice" or a curated identity you pick up at a boutique in San Francisco; it was simply the fabric of daily existence for the common person. It wasn't an adventure or a hobby; it was just life. People today seem to romanticize it as this mysterious, faraway thing, whereas for those who came before us, it was as mundane and essential as the air they breathed.

I don't particularly mind lodges, sects, or even those niche sub-sects and splinter groups, provided they don't veer into the territory of fanaticism; as long as they are honest enough to admit they are modern constructions, I can live with them. To be perfectly candid, I wouldn't say I am personally drawn to Wicca, though I can certainly appreciate certain elements of its framework. If I were to ever delve into neo-paganism—which is an interesting concept given that true paganism emerged from a vastly different, more rural, feudalistic societal structure—I think my path would lean toward a darker, Draconian current. My focus would be much more heavily weighted toward achieving practical, tangible results rather than simply paying homage to the various elements of nature. In fact, if I were to follow such a system, I suspect it would be entirely stripped of any supernatural pretension.

Perhaps there would be some merit in constructing such a tradition with its own internal continuity, rather than insisting on the fallacy that it has flowed uninterrupted from ancient antiquity. It is a complicated thing, really. Unfortunately, we have yet to see the emergence of a leader capable of laying down truly solid foundations—someone who could gather a sufficient number of sensible, intelligent individuals to cultivate this spiritual path or religion with genuine, unwavering devotion. It takes a certain type of dedicated community to make something last, much like how a well-established institution in a city like Chicago or Boston requires both vision and steady hands to survive the decades. Without that core group of committed people, everything remains somewhat adrift.

Maintaining true continuity is an almost impossible feat, largely due to a mountain of complicating factors. One of the more interesting aspects of the New Age movement is how, ever since the early 20th century—starting with the rise of Theosophy, Anthroposophy, and eventually that whole wave of hippie spirituality—we’ve seen these newly composed belief systems being developed at breakneck speed. However, the real struggle lies in the fact that they often become redundant quite quickly. They tend to collapse under their own weight because they either lack any semblance of a solid structure, or they fail to actually reflect the complexities of our modern reality. Some of them even drift into being aggressively evangelical, saturated with these intense, apocalyptic superstitions. At the end of the day, certain ideas simply have to evolve and adapt; there is just such a massive, multi-century gap between old doctrines and our current understanding of the world around us.

It occurs to me that there are several distinct traditions—much like the Alexandrian or Koranic paths—that remain almost entirely shrouded in mystery to the general public. Most people haven't the slightest clue what these groups actually stand for or what their core tenets entail. From what I have gathered through various discussions, they aren't exactly known for upholding the highest moral standards, which is quite a curious thing when you consider how much influence certain esoteric circles can exert.
It strikes me that there is a profound wisdom in choosing the path of the solitary practitioner, and if I am being honest, I suspect the vast majority of true pagans and those dedicated to Wicca find themselves walking this road alone—which, when you really sit with the idea, might actually be the most sensible way to live.

Historically speaking, paganism was always a deeply ingrained social practice; it was never some isolated hobby tucked away from the realities of civilian or military life. Back then, a worldview like that was fundamentally woven into what an individual expected from both the world at large and their own community. These days, however, people struggle to actually coalesce because modern structures and doctrines are so easily scrutinized, or quite frankly, there just isn't much group cohesion to speak of. It’s become increasingly difficult to find anyone who is doing more than just superficially juggling various beliefs and rituals without being fully committed to a singular worldview—though, if I’m being honest, I think that might actually be a good thing. In the past, paganism was essentially a matter of survival and tribal unity; it relied on intense group cohesion or perhaps the external pressures of a state or a tribe, which left very little room for the kind of experimentation or individualism we see now. It wasn't until the Enlightenment and the rise of modern science that individualism really began to surface, and even then, it happened somewhat by accident during the 18th century when those neo-pagan Druidic movements in Britain were being reinvented—movements that served as the historical precursors to many of the paths we follow today. These movements are inherently somewhat fragile; they lack protection from outside influences and find themselves unable to fully impose themselves upon any single system or organized group of people. There was a time when political influence and a heavy-handed ruling class dictated belief systems; you believed exactly what your neighbor believed because there simply wasn't much choice, nor were there diverse sources of information or widespread literacy. In those eras, a pagan worldview was a direct reflection of one's entire existence and their fundamental understanding of reality. Today, it has shifted into just one more "lifestyle choice" among many, making it nearly impossible to align perfectly with how we live, which leads to all this constant picking, tweaking, and reinvention. I suppose it's all five elements, really, but I feel it would be better if we leaned into that variety more often, rather than clinging to the idea that continuity and tradition are inherently superior to everything else.

In this day and age, everything has become a lifestyle choice, and spiritual paths are no exception (at least for most people). Consequently, what we call paganism today is often just neo-paganism—ancient beliefs repackaged to fit a modern way of life. That is the fundamental flaw in contemporary natural religions; no one actually lives in that primal state where they follow the raw cycles of nature, so the whole endeavor becomes an act of imitation rather than true authenticity.
In that regard, a belief in transcendence beyond this world (such as in Christianity) has a much higher chance of surviving shifts in time and social structure while retaining much more of its original, authentic essence.

David Fowler86 said:Thank you so much, that really warmed my heart. <3 🙂

And I know exactly what you mean regarding those issues with websites; so many of them are incredibly superficial and disappointing in every sense of the word, which is such a shame...
Because of that, I stick to a very small number of online resources and tend to rely on books instead. Even then, there can be disappointments, but they are significantly better sources of information than the internet...

To me, Wicca and Paganism are about reclaiming ancient, primal values—it's like restoring a time when life itself was the highest priority, back when there wasn't such a massive divide between humanity and nature (or even between people themselves). Everything was simpler because our way of thinking was more straightforward and natural. That realization provides me with immense comfort and hope...

I truly hope you have also found a path that fulfills you... 🙂

Back when I was on that path (and even now, as I occasionally return to it), I felt this deep-seated need to tap into something primal within myself, and I found it in nature. In those moments, I could sense the presence of the goddess, acting as the spirit of creation in everything around us. I would bestow names upon other gods and spirits of nature, feeling them deeply, though always as an extension of my own spirit and my own interpretation; I never actually saw anything concrete (unlike most pagans who claim to see visions or travel to various realms—honestly, I find that hard to wrap my head around, how does that even work?). For the most part, I didn't follow any prescribed rituals, which I never really performed anyway. I simply never felt the urge. It was my own imagination that fulfilled me, and that was the most beautiful part. That is why I say I still drift back to those feelings from time to time.

I actually have a few books on the subject at home, though I currently have them listed for sale on eBay. 😁 The only one I would never part with, let alone sell, is the one by Scot Cunningham; everything in it is just so beautifully written.

Yes, I have certainly found my way 🙂.

Daniel Castillo11 said:Yes, Gardner—that's exactly who I had in mind.

Everything that has been churned up and presented as "original paganism" since the 18th century is really nothing more than a romanticized revival—a nostalgic longing for something ancient and "pure." In truth, what we are looking at is neo-paganism. Viewed through that lens, it is either a commendable effort at reconstructionist study or, in its worst light, a complete fabrication stitched together from tertiary sources and a handful of modern interpretations. It’s a bit like trying to reconstruct a lost classic novel using only third-hand reviews and modern fan fiction; you might capture the spirit, but you’ve certainly drifted far from the actual text.

In my view, the issue isn't necessarily the attempt to reconstruct ancient beliefs, but rather the messy way it was all assembled. It feels like a patchwork quilt of various secret societies and occultist whims. There is simply too much "extra" layered on top, making it nearly impossible to discern what the actual foundational values are.
Frankly, I wouldn't mind this eclectic assembly if it had its own sense of continuity—if people stopped pretending it was an unbroken lineage stretching back to antiquity. Unfortunately, we haven't seen anyone emerge who could lay down a rock-solid foundation and gather enough sensible, intelligent individuals to actually develop this religion or spiritual path into something substantive and truly dedicated.
As it stands, we have several different branches (the Alexandrian, the Cornish...) that the general public knows nothing about, and from what I hear, they aren't exactly models of moral society either.
It seems to me that the most logical path is to remain solitary. I suspect that most true pagans or Wiccans are loners anyway—and quite frankly, that might be the smartest way to live.

Daniel Castillo11 said:Wicca isn't actually an ancient religion. It really only traces its roots back to the period immediately following the end of World War II. 🙂

I was actually referring to pagan religions in general. I am fully aware that Wicca is a post-war development—Gerald Gardner 🙂

David Fowler86 said:I find myself agreeing with you—in a sense—even if most Christians wouldn't frame it quite that way.
Ultimately, there is a Marian devotion within the faith that feels strikingly similar to ancient pagan worship of the Goddess.
In Christianity, Mary holds this profound role as the Mother of the faithful—merciful, beautiful, and a compassionate protector. To me, she functions much like the pagan Triple Goddess: she is the Maiden (the Virgin), the Mother (of Christ and, in a spiritual sense, of all humanity), and the Crone (as seen in certain artistic depictions where she appears as an older woman grieving her fallen son). In some traditions, she is even referred to as "wider than the heavens." She truly is the Great Mother, the parent of God himself... which makes her immense sanctity entirely justified, both for Christians and for—as I deeply believe—pagans as well.
I once read that many early pagans likely viewed the rise of Christianity as simply another iteration of the cult of the Virgin Goddess—the one who gives birth to a God who sacrifices himself to bring about new life. These motifs have been sacred and universal since time immemorial.
I would actually go so far as to suggest that the Virgin Mary is just one of the many faces of what I call the Great Mother, presented in a way that is accessible and beloved by monotheists. I don't mean to diminish Christian beliefs at all; I am simply sharing how things appear from my own perspective. In every spiritual journey, I tend to find elements of my own truth. Quite often, I find myself traveling to the Stone Gate to pay my respects to Mary, praying with the same fervor that I use when I am at home, in private, honoring the Goddess under her many other names...

That was beautifully articulated; truly, well done! 🙂

It is quite rare to encounter pagans or Wiccans who aren't strictly exclusive toward Christianity, which makes your perspective quite special. Please, continue on this path; by embracing the validity of other faiths, you lend such profound authenticity to your own journey, and you possess a humility that is truly refreshing. Bravo. 🙂

For a long time, I attempted to walk that same road—Wicca, various forms of paganism, and so on—but I found it lacked the depth and purpose I craved. Once you strip away the mythology and the history, you’re often left with nothing but "New Age" fluff, which I personally find quite unappealing. And don't even get me started on the internet sites; most of them, heaven help us, are a mess. Even if it is the oldest religion in existence, it feels as though it lacks roots in our modern era. The world has changed so drastically in the meantime. 🙂
As for the pagans and Wiccans I've met... they were fine people, certainly, but I could never truly connect with anyone. Not on any level.

I sincerely hope you continue following this path if it brings you fulfillment. 🙂

Rebecca Ross5 said:They’d just be converted into some other stable currency—maybe the USD again, or maybe something like the Swiss franc—except if they switch to a different local currency, interest rates would absolutely skyrocket. And honestly? Nobody is going to ask for your permission.😍
Forget that whole 80s scenario where the dinar tanked against the Deutsche Mark and everyone's debt basically evaporated overnight.😁 This time around, you’re stuck paying exactly what you signed for.

Thank you for the response! 🙂

Suppose we were to witness a total collapse of the USD... what on earth would happen to all those consumer loans people have taken out in dollars?

Rebecca Scott3 said:....the joke.....hmm......like you're the friend I want to help.......
.....okay....it's not much....
....
...there's a huge chance this will just be for nothing...
...maybe she'll even get pissed off at me.......but......I really want to help her....
.....because if I can help, she'll be happier, and hanging out with her will be a lot more fun....
....if she does get mad.....well.....lately she's been so moody and careless that I won't exactly miss dealing with her the way she is right now......maybe she just needs some space to figure things out.....

Look, you can tell her exactly what you think of how she's acting, but whether that actually makes her any happier is out of your hands. In the best-case scenario, you might open her eyes, but everything else? She has to do that work herself.
If you feel a burning need to speak your mind, then go ahead and do it. The most important thing is that you feel at peace with your own decision. Perhaps, in this situation, what is actually needed is a real conversation between the two of you; by speaking up, you finally get to tell the truth and move past just playing the role of the "shoulder to cry on." Personally, I have always placed a much higher value on well-intentioned criticism or disagreement from those close to me, as it helps me see things from a different angle—one that is currently invisible to me. In fact, I actively seek it out! Beyond just comfort and support, I want to know where I am tripping up, and sometimes a friend's honest perspective is exactly what I need to find my footing.
On your end, what might help is reaching an internal agreement with yourself about when to step in and do what you believe is right—for your own sake.

placidpilot10 said:Thanks for the feedback. I accept whatever answers you have to give, but this isn't manipulation. I know him. I know his soul. I was prepared for anything except this.
He isn’t aggressive. He isn't some macho type or a player. I've been here for over twenty days, and I still have full access to his phone and email. He barely even uses the computer. But this "but" is destroying me. I cannot wrap my head around how someone can love you—how I could have been the most loved person on Earth—and then suddenly just stop. No reason. We've spent the last few days talking. Not fighting, just talking. He tells me honestly that he thinks he's happiest when he's alone. He says he's haunted by what happened to him, by the fact that he can't feel the way he expected to feel, and that everything just bothers him now. He says he feels most at peace when he's asleep. He hopes he'll wake up from this, but I'm losing hope. I see the pattern. I know exactly what I'm risking by staying. I would do anything, even force things, just to fix us one step at a time. When I tell him that, he says he can't. He says it would be an act. He won't hold my hand or kiss me, let alone go to bed with me. He refuses to fake it because he respects me too much as a person. He thinks if we went to bed, it would just be physical release, and he won't do that to me because he knows how much I meant to him. He remembers how powerful it felt when we were good. Then he adds: "And know this, it has nothing to do with you."
It gets worse every single day. I'm still clinging to this tiny shred of hope that he'll snap out of it and become the man he used to be.
We haven't even had enough time together to get tired of one another. In these twenty-some days, only the first three or four were okay. After that, I spent the rest of the time waiting for him to wake up while he spent every day pushing me further away.
I am sad. I am desperate. And I still have no idea what to do. I love him, yet he tells me he feels nothing. On the other hand, I feel worthless and humiliated, and I know I don't deserve this.
Lately, he just withdraws. He sits in front of the TV or sleeps. Every attempt I make to talk about this ends with: "Don't pressure me. I need peace. Just let it go; maybe I'll feel like myself again." I can't relax. I can't shake this tension. I've actually started feeling uncomfortable in this house. Like I'm unwanted. Like I'm a nuisance.
😢((Horrible... just absolute horror.🤷

It feels almost as if you’ve catapulted me right back into my own past... 🙄 It is an almost identical situation, though in my case, I didn't move to a different state—I just moved to a different neighborhood. You see, you aren't actually experiencing anything truly unique here; nothing that hasn't happened to me, and likely to many others, before. It’s all the same cycle. We both went through those "peak emotions," except for the fact that he was my very first love. Before him, my experience with relationships was essentially zero. He was quite literally my hero—completely devoted to me, with his whole heart, soul, and body. He helped me navigate actual, real-life struggles I was facing back then; he did so much good and noble things for me that it took years... yes, years... to stop remembering them every single time I would try, unsuccessfully, to walk away from him. And the pattern never stopped. He always knew exactly how to surprise me, like when he’d place a new star in the palm of my hand just to wipe away the literal ocean of tears I’d shed because of him. Because of his need to be alone (which meant total unavailability for certain stretches of time), his need to sleep and sleep and sleep whenever a problem surfaced that required solving, his need to play the martyr and act miserable, his tendency to live as if I didn't even exist, and his habit of retreating into silence for days on end... But every night, we would cling to each other in bed like two desperate souls who loved one another endlessly. Eventually, there was a gradual calming down. After a few breakups and reunions, he finally started pulling himself out of the darkness and began focusing on the world around him, working toward building a life together. Even then, those episodes of withdrawal still happened, just much less frequently. Ultimately, however, I just burned out. I stopped desiring him as a man. To be fair, our sex life was perfectly functional during those periods; if it hadn't been, I don't know... I would have left much sooner, because that was what connected us. Everything he couldn't express through words or tenderness, he expressed through intimacy. But I grew weary of the constant struggle against his unstable psyche. I stopped seeing him as a partner because he wasn't one. We weren't equals; I was always the strong one, and he was always the weak one. I started wanting someone else—someone I could be with without the crushing weight of uncertainty, wondering when his next "episode" would strike. It took me a long time, a very long time... far too long... to realize that I simply don't want a life like that, regardless of all the beautiful, wonderful moments we shared when he was actually doing okay. He really did try; he worked on himself and made progress, and things would go well for a while, but he always required my help and my endless understanding. And then, after a certain amount of time, he would always, inevitably, mess it all up again. 😢
He never truly let me go, you know? I was the one who walked away... and honestly, it took every ounce of strength I possessed to keep from turning back around. It’s funny how the mind works—memories have this treacherous way of playing tricks on you, surfacing only the most beautiful, flawless moments while burying everything else deep underground.

placidpilot10 said:Thanks for the feedback. I accept whatever answers you have to give, but this isn't manipulation. I know him. I know his soul. I was prepared for anything except this.
He isn’t aggressive. He isn't some macho type or a player. I've been here for over twenty days, and I still have full access to his phone and email. He barely even uses the computer. But this "but" is destroying me. I cannot wrap my head around how someone can love you—how I could have been the most loved person on Earth—and then suddenly just stop. No reason. We've spent the last few days talking. Not fighting, just talking. He tells me honestly that he thinks he's happiest when he's alone. He says he's haunted by what happened to him, by the fact that he can't feel the way he expected to feel, and that everything just bothers him now. He says he feels most at peace when he's asleep. He hopes he'll wake up from this, but I'm losing hope. I see the pattern. I know exactly what I'm risking by staying. I would do anything, even force things, just to fix us one step at a time. When I tell him that, he says he can't. He says it would be an act. He won't hold my hand or kiss me, let alone go to bed with me. He refuses to fake it because he respects me too much as a person. He thinks if we went to bed, it would just be physical release, and he won't do that to me because he knows how much I meant to him. He remembers how powerful it felt when we were good. Then he adds: "And know this, it has nothing to do with you."
It gets worse every single day. I'm still clinging to this tiny shred of hope that he'll snap out of it and become the man he used to be.
We haven't even had enough time together to get tired of one another. In these twenty-some days, only the first three or four were okay. After that, I spent the rest of the time waiting for him to wake up while he spent every day pushing me further away.
I am sad. I am desperate. And I still have no idea what to do. I love him, yet he tells me he feels nothing. On the other hand, I feel worthless and humiliated, and I know I don't deserve this.
Lately, he just withdraws. He sits in front of the TV or sleeps. Every attempt I make to talk about this ends with: "Don't pressure me. I need peace. Just let it go; maybe I'll feel like myself again." I can't relax. I can't shake this tension. I've actually started feeling uncomfortable in this house. Like I'm unwanted. Like I'm a nuisance.
😢((Horrible... just absolute horror.🤷

It really is awful. It feels like the only way to cope is to hide away in front of the television or just drift off into dreams. I truly feel for placidpilot10, but honestly, this seems to be his go-to method for handling anything life throws at him—whether he’s just trying to organize his thoughts or dealing with actual, tangible issues down the road, like parenting struggles or whatever else comes up.

I happen to be one of those individuals who finds it quite difficult to let people get too close, primarily because I have this deep-seated fear of
becoming an imposition on others. Based on my past experiences socializing with certain types of people
who simply weren't a good fit for me, I would consistently walk away feeling terrible—not because I was being unkind, but because I wasn't being honest, neither with myself
nor with them. In an earnest attempt to give someone a fair shake even if I felt they were just "okay," I often found myself
entangled in social dynamics or relationships that quickly turned into an exhausting chore. Once
those connections inevitably dissolved, I would spiral into a period of regret and intense guilt, worrying about having bruised
that person's feelings. Because of that heavy emotional baggage from failed friendships,
I am now incredibly selective about who I invite into my inner circle. I realize that by being this guarded, I may have inadvertently overlooked
some truly wonderful people who didn't immediately resonate with me, but that is simply because I’ve been burned before and I know
just how complicated these things can become. It turns out you sometimes give someone a chance only for them to eventually become
an absolute drain on your energy. I believe there really should be a middle ground when dealing with strangers,
where one takes their time getting to know them.
In my case, nobody ever felt burdensome right off the bat; rather, it was always after spending a significant amount of time with them. And honestly, isn't it true that we all end up being a bit much for someone at some point? Even to our best friends, a partner, or even our parents, if we're being totally candid 😁 And conversely, we've all had moments where someone else felt like a burden to us... 😉