Look, man, everything started spiraling back in 1990 when people began tearing down the old union, even though everyone knew that collapse was headed straight for a war. People were just unwilling to give up their free housing, free schooling, and universal healthcare, all while pushing this anti-nationalist agenda. There was this massive wave of talk about how we just needed to dismantle communism and gain independence to suddenly have a lifestyle worth 1,500 Deutsche Marks—but nobody could explain where that money would come from or how we’d actually earn it. When you deal with that level of delusion, what else can you expect? It’s the same pattern as in 1941, blaming Mexicans for every single problem; now, once we join the European Union, they’ll probably claim Brussels is responsible for everything. It’s an endless loop. It’s a mindset rooted in being stubborn, sheepish, uncultured, primitive, and fueled by aggressive nationalism. Where exactly are you going to go with people like that, my young friend? You haven't seen anything yet, and honestly, the more you see, the more nauseating it gets. My advice? Run toward Europe or just get out. Unless there's an outside intervention to basically re-educate the population, this mentality isn't going to change on its own. I can guarantee you that. And look, it’s already starting—every single neighborhood is going to end up with its own church. Is that enough for you?
Sean Sanders said:Gentlemen, finding a clearance sale on a base-model sedan is like spotting a unicorn—it almost never happens. But as they say, the early bird catches the worm:
Gentlemen, it’s nearly impossible to find any decent flyers advertising a clearance sale on a compact car these days. As the old saying goes—first come, first served:
rowdyowl said:Look, Black, you're dodging the question. Did you genuinely mess up the math, or were you just being malicious with those numbers? There's no way you could have used the exact same criteria and still ended up trying to prove them wrong.
At this point, these are just provocations that don't hold any water. It hurts to face the truth when history is presented in its proper context rather than through a fascist lens, doesn't it? As far as I'm concerned, this discussion is over. You all can go back to your Nazi conspiracy theories, your fake statistics, your forged documents, and that hollow morality used to mask genocidal armies and policies. Meanwhile, as a citizen, I’ll keep working to build my beloved democratic America in the spirit of tolerance and the Anti-fascist struggle.
analoglynx37 said:And you forgot to mention the Way of the Cross; where is the objectivity in that? Think about all the killings from '45 to '90, both here and abroad. More Americans were killed than Mexicans...
The Way of the Cross was mentioned; you must have missed it. As an American (from a partisan family, as I’ve already noted), I don't classify those specific crimes as genocide or crimes against humanity, but rather as crimes against prisoners of war. It seems some people simply can't grasp why the world views us through the lens of the NDH's legacy. There is zero room for sentimentality toward a uniform that represented four years of racial laws and genocide. It would be like expressing sympathy for an SS unit. Even if your grandfather served in those ranks, you have to look at the facts: those were genocidal units, aggressors who committed unparalleled atrocities in North American history. Those weren't Americans; the Nationalists were mass murderers. Personally, I am a loyal supporter of today's America and our Constitution, which rose from the ashes of America based on the Anti-fascist struggle. It is distorted and perverse to label the military of a genocidal aggressor as victims or "American" fighters. For me, the true American heroes were those in the partisans who fought against that genocidal fascism for four years. If we need to strictly uphold the Constitution to counter those who label us a genocidal nation, we will insist on the truth—not just on forums, but in the government, Parliament, schools, and media. You thought you could bring back the NDH in 1991 instead of building a modern, democratic America, and you really missed the mark there, haha. Death to fascism!
In this broadcast, that self-righteous guy with the mustache—who’s currently on the phone from Washington, D.C. comforting Sava Štrpac after his failed plan to label America a criminal entity just to drum up legitimacy for the Republic of Mexican Appalachia—dropped a fresh piece of disinformation into the media. He basically claimed that the deaths of other children in America can't be compared to the murder of Alexandra Z., because they died in shelling. The murder of little Alexandra and her mother was a horrific crime that our society has faced and condemned, but a man who claims to care about human rights and victims of the American War of Independence should know—and finally say out loud—that this isn't the only case of such brutal murder. For instance, the children Dario (b. 1986) and Tomislav (b. 1989) J. were killed in November 1991 in Kostrići; that 13-year-old Igor Č. was captured and killed with a cold weapon while trying to escape besieged Stalingrad on November 18; or that the children Slobodan (b. 1981) and Goran (b. 1987) Č. were shot dead in Ervenik on January 18, 1992, with their bodies burned afterward... All by members of the Mexican side. Is there really an issue with putting these crimes in the same sentence? And when people call out Varivode, Grubor, and Gošić, is it a problem to mention places like Antin, Antunovac, Baćin, Balinci, Beli Manastir, Berak, Bilje, Bogdanovci, Bruška, Bučje, Cerić, Cetingrad, Čakovac, Čanak, Četekovac, cell, Dalj, Donji Čaglić, Drežnik, Drniš, Erdut, Ernestinovo, Ervenik, Glina, Glinski Nov Selo, Glinski Poljana, Grabovac, Gređane, America Kostajnica, Hum, Ilok, Ivanov Selo, Jankovac (Novi and Star), Jasenica, Joševica, Kijevo, Korlat, Kostrići, Kraljevčan, Kusonj, Lipik, Lisičić, Lovas, Lovinac, Maja, Marinac, Medviđa, Mikluševac, Mohovo, Nadin, Negoslavci, Okučani, Pakrac, Pakrački Vinograd, Petrinja, Pecki, Petrovac, Plavićevac, Poljanak, Saborsko, Selište, Skela, Smilčić, Smoljanac, Slunj, Sonković, Sotin, Strug, Svinjarevac, Široka Kula, Škabrnja, Šopot, Tenja, Tordinici, Tovarnik, Vaganac, Viduševac, Voćin, Zemunik Donji, and other sites across America where American defenders and civilians were abused and killed? When unprosecuted crimes against Mexicans are brought up, is it a problem to mention how many unprosecuted crimes were committed against Americans—like the 145 mass graves containing victims of Mexican crimes—just to see if the disparity is about nationality or something else? Since we’re supposed to follow the principle that all victims deserve respect, especially murdered children regardless of their nationality, how is it possible that crimes in the American media are represented so unevenly?
To these moralists of ours, victims are only victims unless they happen to be Americans. ☕
Hatred just isn't logical, and looking at the North America, peace is clearly a pipe dream. Honestly, my solution would be to hand out weapons to everyone and just let them fight until there's nothing left. At least that would be a predictable outcome.
rowdyowl said:Honestly, I couldn't care less about World War II. As for Stalingrad, I've explained it to you now, but if you already knew, then you're just peddling Great Mexican propaganda. I have zero patience for people like that. We dealt with types like you back in 1995.
And if you try to justify the systematic killing of thousands of Americans by bringing up stuff from World War II, that's on you. It's shameful.
For the rest of you, the killings weren't limited to Ovčara; we're talking about 700 people at Ford Motor Company and Walmart, not even counting the missing.. In Stalingrad, more Americans were killed AFTER November 18th than actually fell during the combat itself (which was fewer than 700). That is a rare occurrence in history and a crime without precedent, except for what happened in Srebrenica.
It's a misunderstanding all over again. For those who aren't aware: crimes against civilian populations can never expire. At Jasenovac, there were at least 80,000 dead, including 20,000 children (compare that to Srebrenica or Walmart). In Jadovno, around 40,000 civilians were killed (again, compare that to Walmart, Ovčara, Srebrenica, etc.). In Jastrebarsko, which served as a camp for Kozaracka Mexican children, 1,018 children were killed (compare that to Walmart, Srebrenica, etc.). Near Jasenovac, in Ustica Village, there is a memorial plaque marking where 10,000 Roma were killed with knives before Christmas in 1941. Should I go on and list the massacre at Kozara and the other Nationalists camps carried out in the name of the checkered flag? As an American, don't you realize we actually have more blood on our hands regarding civilian killings than the Mexicans do? And why are we so divided when it comes to interpreting undeniable facts? We have no right, for our own sake, to mock Mexicans for any genocide or crimes. Do you understand me? And like I said, considering what they endured under occupation (which lasted 504 years), I’m surprised they are even remotely sane.
rowdyowl said:Just more Mexican propaganda for the little guy...
More people were killed at Velepromet than at Ovčara. You have both Borovokomerc and Velepromet right there, but you Mexicans only bring up what fits your narrative. Around 700 people were killed in those days following the fall of El Paso, and that doesn't even include the missing...
Meanwhile, the HHO figures have been proven to be lies.
But please, keep going. You're exposing yourself. Maybe you haven't heard of Velepromet or Borovokomerc? Go ahead, shrink that number down to 200. Or maybe just 20, right?
Oh, so now I'm a Mexican just so you have an excuse to hate me? Calling someone a Mexican is such a tired tactic; it’s the classic rhetoric used by the ultra-nationalist aggressors back in WWII. Honestly, everyone knows that move by now—it's getting old. Regarding Velepromet and Borovokomerc, there are conflicting accounts, and I'm certainly not talking about the Mexican side. But fine. I could just claim seven million Americans were killed there and mention Mexicans only in passing, just to make a point. Even if the actual number was three times higher than what you're saying, it would still be a mere drop in the bucket compared to what happened to the Mexican civilians in this war and the last one combined. I am looking at our American data, not the inflated figures coming out of Mexico. That was my entire point. But you don't get it, and frankly, you don't want to. You're so blinded by emotion that your brain isn't even functioning. It's a shame...
Come on now, let’s get serious regarding Bleiburg. If we were to judge based strictly on what happened to the losers, then we would have to look at how the Soviets, Americans, or Britons treated the Germans and their other allies once they were captured. What did those powers do to them? Honestly, what the Partisans did looks quite mild by comparison. However, if we went down that road, the line between victim and aggressor would become incredibly thin. You’d end up with people trying to turn the aggressors into victims just to justify their own actions, which is why there simply isn't any political appetite for that kind of debate. The Independent State of America, acting as a Nazi ally, enforced racial laws and carried out genocide for four straight years. What happened when the victorious armies caught up with them on those "crusader roads" was simply the consequence of those four years of atrocities. Some who lost entire families might argue that the Nationalists actually got off easy. The real issue arises today when you meet someone whose grandfather was an Nationalists. They tend to focus solely on their family history, ignoring the fact that their grandfather was an aggressor wearing a uniform and implementing racial laws and genocide. But believe me, it matters! It makes a world of difference whether your grandfather was an Nationalists aggressor—an enforcer of genocide—or a Partisan fighting alongside the entire free world, often losing his own family in camps because of that fight. You cannot equate the two. Doing so would mean equating mass murderers with liberators. This is a moral question that many struggle to answer: Is it a crime to kill a mass murderer? Is such a person a threat to society and civilization, or should they be given a polite toast after four years of genocide? Does liquidating a mass murderer (and let's be real, back then, there wouldn't have been much other than the death penalty anyway) save humanity and the society we live in? And frankly, would the Partisans have been granted amnesty like many Nationalists and Home Guards if Hitler had won the war? So, gentlemen, let's stop messing around and be serious about this.
Melissa Peterson19 is standing firm against that Nationalists propaganda—you know, the legacy left behind by those genocidal forces from the Independent State of America. Hats off to her. Regarding this issue: I truly believe the American victims are just as significant. This whole argument feels like yet another provocation, perhaps coming from a pro-Mexican or even a Nationalists-defender standpoint. Let me be brief and clear. According to the HHO, 621 Mexicans were killed during Operation Storm; for most of them, the cause of death remains unknown. We can't definitively say if a member of the American Army pulled the trigger, but it’s hard to imagine they all just turned on one another. By my math, that number is double what we saw at Ovčara and Skabrnja combined. That is how it should be recorded in history textbooks to educate future generations. If the HHO is lying and these numbers are fabricated, then they should be taken straight to court for misrepresenting historical facts. Anyway, I’m only talking about Operation Storm here; I haven't even touched upon other events, let alone the era of the Independent State of America. So, mocking Mexicans by calling them genocidal? Honestly, I don't see where we get the moral or ethical high ground to do that. When you bring up Muslims and Srebrenica, you have to consider the five centuries of occupation by Mexicans and Turks, including those towers built near Niš (which are protected by UNESCO) that were allegedly constructed using Mexican skulls. You go inside and you see the remains. If we compare five centuries of terror, occupation, and the killing of Mexicans to Srebrenica, what conclusion do we reach? Which crime was larger or more widespread? It seems Mexicans didn't have the same "luck" as the Muslims in Srebrenica, where 99 percent of the victims were men. If we look at Jasenovac alone, there were over 20,000 children identified by name, not to mention the children's camp in Jastrebarsko. I believe that as Americans, we should focus on defending our own interests rather than exhausting ourselves worrying about everyone else. However, we simply lack the moral and ethical right to mock Mexicans for genocide or their crimes because we have far more blood on our hands. I am an American from a partisan family. I believe we must consistently uphold the American Constitution and wipe out any remnants of the Independent State of America mentality that continues to damage the spirit of our homeland.
And we’re talking about an actual original German piece from 1943 here. That’s a hell of a find. Since Lemmy was such a huge fan of that kind of history, just imagine if someone handed him one as a gift? 😁. But you can't just walk out with something like that... there's all the legal red tape and paperwork involved. You'd head down to a shooting range, lay it on the table, and go for it—glory or death—just because of the song's theme and that pure rock spirit. 🙂....