Posts by placidorca16

I’ve been using Johnson & Johnson for years—they do the job just fine. But then there’s this friend of mine who supposedly suffers from "dry eyes" so intensely that she was in constant pain—to the point where she cycled through 15 different specialists, from ophthalmologists and neurologists to ENT doctors and even those "alternative medicine" types. None of these supposed experts could help her, despite the mountain of eye drops she burned through, until they finally decided her issue was actually a "serotonin deficiency." Now she's on a cocktail of antidepressants and anti-epileptics.🤷 She’s feeling better now, I guess, but at the cost of being on medication indefinitely.

wearyranger10, I'm honestly so glad everything turned out fine for your girlfriend!🙂 See? This is why you actually go to a real doctor instead of playing roulette.👍 Honestly, that guy should be reported to the medical board—at the very least.👎 It’s just messed up that someone like that was allowed to work at a campus clinic; he's clearly taking advantage of students, and who knows how many more girls he's already screwed over.😠

I’ve had my fair share of "adventures" with various gynecologists.😁 For instance, back when I was a student around 19 or 20, there was this one doctor at the Central Park health clinic—older guy, wore glasses, but wasn't exactly a brute. He just had this creepy, oily smile and would stare at me with these bulging eyes. Even though I wasn't even there for a breast exam, every single time I was lying there on the table with my legs in stirrups, he’d somehow decide to "check" my breasts at the exact same time.🙄 Now, I was strictly there for some vaginal inflammation or yeast issues, but about three times in a row, he insisted I strip completely naked just so he could poke at my breasts while I was lying down. All while leaning in toward my face with that greasy little grin of his.😲 It would go on for a few minutes until I’d start squirming from the sheer awkwardness, and then he’d just say, "Everything looks fine." After the third time, I finally walked out and found someone else.

Next up was his colleague working the opposite shift. A few women had recommended him to me. He was also an older guy—a Floridian originally from the Central Valley, which I only found out later—and he wouldn't stop interrogating me about when I planned to have kids or when I'd have more children (as if I were some old grandmother, and I was barely twenty), or if I'd ever had a miscarriage. I saw him a couple of times, but I couldn't stand answering his tedious questions for long, so I decided to head to a private OB-GYN that an old elementary school friend swore was "excellent."

She practiced over on Berislavićev. When I showed up, she greeted me with this incredibly stern, cold vibe. She was an older woman—small, thin, blonde—and honestly, she carried herself like an SS officer.🙄 I went in because of some inflammation. As soon as I lay down, she peered at me with wide, frantic eyes and said, "What is this? There's going to be all sorts of trouble here." I was terrified. Then she goes, "We need to take a lot of swabs, and then we'll see if you need hospital treatment or if we should order those special injections from Switzerland (which are pricey) to try those instead."😲 I was floored. Of course, I was willing to do whatever it took just to get better. At the time, I actually thought I might have some serious STI—syphilis, maybe😕—even though my symptoms weren't any different than my usual yeast infections. I had to go to the CDC to pick up about 15 test tubes so she could take the swabs, which I then brought back to the CDC for analysis. I waited two weeks for the results. Turns out, they found nothing except some "intestinal" bacteria. Every single test came back negative, especially for the gonorrhea she was clearly convinced I had. Still, she tells me, "It isn't what I thought it was, but you still need ten days of hospital care, or if you won't do the hospital, we have to order those injections from Switzerland."😕 Once again, I didn't get why I needed a hospital stay or those fancy injections if it wasn't even a major infection. Anyway, I decided to get a second opinion at the Mayo Clinic based on a recommendation. There, I finally met a male gynecologist (who hadn't been there long) and then a female gynecologist who turned out to be the doctor I can still rely on to this day; she managed my pregnancy and was always professional, conscientious, educated, and reliable.👍 Basically, first the guy told me, and then the woman confirmed, that those "intestinal" bacteria were absolutely no reason for hospitalization, and that I definitely shouldn't take that Swiss medication from the SS officer, because it would wipe out my entire flora and leave me with nothing left to treat with antibiotics if I got another infection.😁 My doctor prescribed me an oral antibiotic based on my lab results—took it for ten days and the whole thing was sorted. Since then, I’ve been seeing his colleague, a gynecologist who used to be the department head over at the Mayo Clinic; she retired earlier this year, but I still see her privately. Of course, I also have my regular coverage through my insurance, which isn't bad either, based out of the local clinic near the suburbs. Honestly, both of them are light years ahead of those old-school butchers and conservatives I dealt with before.👍

Carol Rodriguez16 said:From what I’ve seen, you really shouldn't make any big calls—like surgery or intense treatments—without getting a second or third opinion from independent doctors first. It's just common sense.

Infertility isn't one-size-fits-all; there are different types, and each requires a totally different approach. You have to actually figure out the root cause.

And honestly? There are endless stories out there. A friend of mine was told she was completely infertile—basically a closed case. She decided to move to Australia on a fellowship, figuring if she couldn't have kids, she might as well focus entirely on her career and studies. While she was over there, she met someone, and when she moved back to the States, she found out she was pregnant. They’ve traveled all over for work, they live in the US now, and they have a perfectly healthy kid along with two great careers.

Oh, please—there are plenty of stories. My mom was told she’d never have children. To be fair, she dealt with five miscarriages before things finally clicked—each pregnancy lasted longer than the last, and she eventually had twins (me and my sister) at 39. She had to be on bed rest the whole time, but that was the least of our worries.🙂

I know others, too. Some friends were married for 20 years without kids—they started young, after all. She was being treated for endometriosis, which was labeled as "infertility." They weren't exactly obsessed with having kids since they both focused on their careers, but then, after two decades of marriage, she got pregnant and had a baby at 41.🙂

There are as many of these stories as you want to find.👍

wearyranger10 said:Hey
I’ve been with my girlfriend for a year and a half—she’s 20. For the last three months, we’ve just been stuck in this loop of grief and despair... It all kicked off about two months ago when she went for a routine checkup at the university clinic—I think they just opened a student health center there. She told me, basically in passing, that her gynecologist said she probably won't be able to have kids, and that if she ever did get pregnant, either she or the baby would die??? ...Mario

😲 Excuse me? What kind of lunatic is that? Where did he even get his medical degree? 😕 Seriously, you run into some total hacks and crazies in the OB-GYN field!😠 His job isn't to play fortune teller—it's to treat actual gynecological issues if there are any! At this point, calling him a "licensed witch doctor" feels almost too kind.🙄 Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if he's just some moralizing jerk who wasn't thrilled that your girlfriend is sexually active before marriage, so he decided to use her as a target for his little scare tactics and judgment sessions.👎

Tell your girlfriend she needs to find a new doctor immediately. Just be there for her and support her through this. If she can swing it, tell her to see someone in private practice; if not, stick to the local clinic, but please—for her sake—make sure she does her homework on who she’s seeing so she doesn't end up landing in another idiot's office.🙄

Angela Harris said:Well, Wednesday finally rolled around—I gathered every ounce of courage I had and actually went through with that terrifying exam...
Paralyzed with fear—and then he goes: Nothing to see here!
🙂

Oh, great. Just wonderful.👍 So, amenorrhea. Great.☕ I saw this coming—multiple times, actually.👍Come on, let's hope for some good luck here!🙂

I’ll never forget this absolute butcher of a doctor at the clinic in Washington, D.C.—I was just a terrified 17-year-old kid, panicking because my period had vanished. I had my first boyfriend back then—nothing serious, we weren't exactly "adults" yet, and technically I was a virgin, but hey, you never really know. We had been vacationing together in Maui, and I’d missed my cycle by about three weeks. I ended up taking an early morning ferry to Miami all by myself—which, honestly, was already a lot to handle. I didn't dare tell anyone how worried I was. I finally walk into the office, and there’s this nurse who just tells me, "Strip down behind that curtain and wait for the doctor." Only problem? The "curtain" behind her was this greasy, brownish rag barely thirty centimeters wide. And right behind that flimsy barrier were the doctor's doors. My legs were shaking so hard I could barely stand. There wasn't even a hook or a chair to put my stuff on—so I just stood there, clutching my underwear in my hand like a loser. Then the doctor calls me in. He’s this old, tiny guy with glasses—cold as ice, scowling, and just plain rude. He barks, "Sit down!" I look around—sit where? There isn't a single chair except one next to his desk, and it looks absolutely filthy and stained. I actually managed to mutter, "I'd rather stand, if that's okay," mostly because I felt like I was going to pass out from sheer misery. My head was spinning and I felt incredibly weak... He just asks, "What do you want?" I tell him, "My period is three weeks late, and I'm scared I might be pregnant, though I think I'm still a virgin." He just gives me this cynical, mocking smirk.😲 And he just barked, "Get down!" So I lie back on this old table—and he starts shoving that metal piece against me, then just slams his hand down with everything he's got, squeezing my stomach in all these spots. I was moaning, obviously—loudly—because it hurt like hell. He just keeps squeezing like that over and over and says, "What’s the big deal—why are you getting so worked up? It wasn't such an issue when you were actually sleeping around."Well, if you screw up, you just have to deal with it"—honestly, I was absolutely floored by that one. 😲 Back then, I had no idea some gynecologists could be such butchers—but I learned that lesson fast. Not that I expected to be handled so roughly or humiliated like that at seventeen—especially when I wasn't even sure if I was still a virgin myself (turns out I only figured that out a year later, once things actually happened).

A year ago, I saw my first gynecologist in Washington, D.C.—I was there for amenorrhea, but honestly, I was also terrified of being pregnant—since I started dating my first boyfriend (who ended up being my long-term partner) when I was only 15. Luckily, that doctor wasn't judgmental at all; he was incredibly gentle, attentive, and kind. He did a standard exam, checked my urine, and managed to calm me down—which was necessary, since there was no pregnancy involved, just a hormonal imbalance.

I definitely didn't see this kind of bloodbath coming.👎 The doctor basically told me, "I don't see anything here yet—check back in a month." I practically bolted out of the clinic—sobbing, face blotchy, just a total wreck. People were staring at me like I was losing my mind while I walked down the street. Luckily, my period showed up a week later.🙂 Even if I had—which I didn't—there's no way I'd ever step foot in a butcher shop run by someone that reckless again. At least I've learned my lesson on what to avoid.👎

copperpilot11 said:Thanks for the heads up. Got my neurology referral today, and I'm heading in tomorrow to see how the steroid treatment is working.
On Monday, I've got an ENT appointment for a full balance system check—middle ear stuff, etc. Honestly, I probably won't sleep easy until I'm 100% sure there isn't something serious going on in my head.

By the way, placidorca16, do you ever struggle with balance when it's dark or in low light?
When I say balance issues, I mean actual vertigo and being unable to stand on one leg, which is pretty much the standard balance test...

Well, whenever I had those dizzy spells or felt unsteady, it didn't really matter how much light there was—it happened in both bright rooms and the dark—though it wasn't quite bad enough to make me actually fall. I could still stand on one leg, I guess, just with way less control and a much shakier sense of stability.😕

I dealt with these crazy dizzy spells—all thanks to my neck, apparently. I’ve had headaches my entire life, too. At first, I was convinced it was something serious with my brain, so I went through the whole neurological gauntlet and got an MRI, but everything came back perfectly normal. While I was waiting on all that, I decided to try acupuncture with a specialist—did 11 sessions total, and honestly? It cut the dizziness down by about 95%. Even my physical therapist confirmed that acupuncture was a solid move for this kind of thing, and then they sent me off to do some medical exercises to "maintain my spine" long-term. Those have been a lifesaver, too. The dizziness is mostly gone now, though I still get this occasional "foggy" feeling in my head—but that clears up as soon as I start my exercises.🙂

By the way, losing weight could totally be a side effect of the stress from dealing with all this. That uncertainty while you're waiting for a diagnosis is easily the worst part.

Charles Campbell8 said:Yeah, you can just grab it at a CVS—no prescription needed, obviously... it’s about $37. The tube looks tiny, but honestly, it lasts like 2 or 3 months if you're just using it sparingly on your face.

Alright, thanks.🙂

swiftbear86 said:And all these cancer stories are just outdated...
Smoking is a bigger risk...😲

Sure, smoking is a risk too—no argument there—but calling these things "outdated" isn't quite right:

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/ovarian-cancer/

http://healthline.com/nutrition/ovarian-cancer-risk-factors

Charles Campbell8 said:I’m not sure if you’ve tried Sensibio DS cream. I deal with seborrheic dermatitis—mostly on my scalp—but I also had some flare-ups above my lip. This cream basically fixed them; they aren't noticeable anymore, and the itching and stinging have totally stopped.

Could you let me know if that stuff is available at a local pharmacy or somewhere else? My husband is dealing with the exact same thing, so I’d love to get him a try.

Kate Kern6 said:If it’s actually true that women need to have their first kid before thirty—especially for their own health—then I am officially panicking. I turn thirty in a month (brrrr, sounds absolutely terrifying), and apparently, that "rule" doesn't apply to me anymore. If it's real? I just hope it won't be too late for me later...

You're stressing over nothing—as long as you're healthy, in my opinion.😉 If you're healthy, you can give birth without issues as long as you're still fertile. If you aren't, having a baby at twenty isn't going to magically fix that either. It’s highly individual. Age is really just a statistical data point—every woman is obviously much more than just a number. For instance, women around 35 typically get sent for amniocentesis just because they hit that age milestone. Of course, not everyone does it since they have the right to say no. But a fetus with Down syndrome can happen way before 35, just as it might never happen at all. Plus, the test itself carries about the same risk as the statistical chance of Down syndrome for a woman that age (around 0.5-1%). In that scenario, if people blindly follow every statistical claim doctors make, a 35-year-old might undergo the test just because of the stats and end up with a miscarriage, even if the fetus was perfectly healthy and didn't have Down syndrome.🙄

Obviously, health—including reproductive health—is a moving target, which is why I think the best way to deal with these fears is to actually know your own body. Listen to it and track it; you'll be able to figure out most things yourself, regardless of medical opinions—which, let's be honest, aren't always the smartest.☕

ruggedbadger25 said:...but clearly I'm just some crazy idiot, so let everyone else decide for me instead.

Look, that’s not what I mean at all. Actually—I think you've got a brain, and I'm pretty sure you're smart enough to realize your life is in your own hands, and that you're the one who ultimately decides things. Of course, that also means you're the one carrying all the risks from those choices. ☕

The last time I gained 5 lbs, I totally lost it and dropped 10 lbs immediately. Then I gained 7 back. It's just this endless cycle. It's hard—it's really hard fighting yourself... It isn't even about looks, it's about self-control and self-respect.

So, basically, your core issue is anorexia. Your period will likely regulate itself once you tackle that, but if you don't, you'll either be stuck choosing hormone therapy (with one set of risks) or skipping it entirely (with another set of risks). If I were in your shoes, I'd start by tackling the self-esteem stuff—thoroughly—by finding a solid therapist, not just anyone; bad professionals can actually do more harm than good. Since you're still so young, there's a real chance to fix the self-esteem side of things before it's too late. Besides, irregular periods are common in young women even without eating disorders, and they often stabilize without needing hormones.

But hey, who cares, right? She doesn't have a period, so she has to gain weight, even if it absolutely kills her and makes her miserable.

Look, you don't *have* to do anything—but just know that if you don't, a bright future probably isn't in the cards.😢

Look, you’re operating under the assumption that people always "listen" to what the experts say. I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with that—really—but you just can't know for sure.☕

Sophia Wells72 said:She needs to realize that missing periods for long stretches can actually carry more risks than just being on birth control. Either she’ll have to focus on gaining weight and eating right immediately—maybe some herbal teas and stuff—or follow a doctor's advice and start taking the pills she's so afraid of.

Look, I have no clue what the specific risk level is for a young woman dealing with potential anorexia versus starting hormone therapy—especially looking at the long term. Honestly, sometimes just smoking is enough to spike those risks significantly. My point was simply that the risk exists, and it’s likely higher when anorexia is in the mix. Anorexia isn't just some "phase" either—it's a serious, heavy illness that can be lifelong, and unfortunately, it often comes with other complications regardless of any hormone treatment.😢
But, obviously, the choice is hers to make. In my opinion, the only logical, healthy way out is to eat normally and gain weight. That would effectively eliminate both issues—the anorexia and the need for pills.🙂

Sophia Wells72 said:Are you a gynecologist? Why all the drama—if she doesn't gain weight, she'll just have to.

Look, I’m no doctor, but if you want actual info, you need a decent gynecologist—which is exactly what I have. My OBGYN, who I talked to about hormone therapy, confirmed the risks documented in several scientific papers I've read myself. She told me straight up that doctors are "obligated" to offer various hormone therapy options depending on the diagnosis, even though there are serious side effects—you know, things like certain cancers, heart disease, cardiovascular issues, etc. Those are the standard risks for women without anorexia. In the case of anorexia, though, common sense suggests those risks would actually go up, not down. Is that clear enough for you?🤷

ruggedbadger25 said:And yeah, they slapped an anorexia diagnosis on me the second I mentioned I lost weight on purpose. Doctors hand those out like candy just to get you off their plate—if you really want to know...

Well, that’s not quite how it works. You aren't getting your period, and combined with your weight, that’s the massive red flag for anorexia. Your OBGYN was actually spot on. If you were already underweight but still had a cycle, nobody would be jumping to an anorexia diagnosis.

Taking hormone therapy while being that underweight—honestly, I don't think it's the brightest move.🙄

ruggedbadger25 said:I don't know—I did a little digging on hormone therapy, and so many sites claim it can cause breast cancer. That scares me because I had a cyst this summer... they drained it and everything is fine now. But apparently, I need to gain about 10 pounds over the next year, and honestly, just thinking about gaining weight makes me want to gag.
Hormones don't just make you gain a "little" weight—you can easily pack on 20 pounds in a week—so please don't downplay it just because I might be "scared" of the scale...

Good catch. Hormone therapy definitely carries risks like cancer or blood clots—it's just that a lot of OB-GYNs conveniently forget to mention that part.☕

jadegardener21 said:But look, we are talking about children roughly twelve or thirteen years old here. 🤷
In my view, using such a thing as an way to illustrate things—provided there is adequate explanation and a thorough breakdown of key concepts—is perfectly acceptable for that age group...
I am certainly not denying that Americans are often masters at extreme trivialization, and in that light, that is generally how people over here perceive them (you see all those "The idiot's guide to X" or "What your X grader needs to know" type of nonsense flooding the market), but they are also frequently excellent at making complex concepts more accessible through simplification. American children understand their textbooks and study materials far better than American kids do back home [in the other system], because everything is explained so brilliantly... The school books back home tend to be traditionally concise, almost curt, focusing strictly on the essentials without giving much weight to practical examples or reading primary documents—like in history class, for instance—and instead still rely heavily on rote memorization of facts, whereas the American approach places a massive emphasis on practical application of whatever you can possibly use...

An average high schooler in the US is still better educated than your average high schooler in the other country. Same goes for elementary school.

That really depends on how you define being "well-educated"... I personally don't believe that hoarding a mountain of facts is the ultimate goal of schooling.

When it comes to elementary school, my niece in the States (attending a private school) receives much more instruction than my daughter does, and her peers are, in absolutely every subject, essentially what jadegardener21 describes... My own experience has been that there is this very popular prejudice that the American school system is a total catastrophe, yet people fail to consider just how diverse and multifaceted it actually is... 🤷

I'm not talking about private schools, since I don't have any insight into them. The other country only recently started seeing private schools, whereas America has a centuries-old tradition there, so surely they should be seeing better results. No one is disputing that.

I follow your logic, but the reality is that in America, the private sector is incredibly widespread (and you even have all sorts of semi-private institutions), meaning it encompasses a much larger percentage of the school-aged population than the other country does, and the top-tier schools are located within that sector. You would be comparing the American public sector to the other country's public sector, while failing to account for the fact that they don't represent the same proportions of the population; specifically, the absolute cream of the crop in America exists almost entirely outside of that public sector, whereas the elite tier in the other country is found within that public sector...

My assertion, based on my own lived experience, is that the American peak—meaning a truly good private school—is superior to the peak of the other country's system—meaning an elite public preparatory academy...

I wasn't even bringing up geography. I have no idea where you got that from... I was talking about general knowledge, just speaking broadly.

You mentioned that Americans can't see past their own borders, or something along those lines. And that we’re somehow more advanced because instead of an American-centric education, we have a European-centric one—which makes sense, since the US is far too large to ever be purely US-centric—when it comes to things like geography, history, art, literature, and so on.

Look, it isn't even really about having "more" or "less" knowledge, per se, but rather that you have one system that prioritizes breadth (like the American approach) versus a system that focuses on depth (like the European approach)... American students might lag behind in subjects they haven't covered or barely touched upon, but on average, they possess a much deeper understanding of the specific subjects they have actually studied, especially at the high school level where many courses are effectively equivalent to college-level classes—and no joke, that's an easy way to knock out some credits once you get to university...

I don't believe you can truly compare the two in terms of value, because different systems simply have different objectives... Personally, I still prefer the American style in that regard, as I feel both primary and secondary education should lean more toward breadth than sheer depth, but I prefer to look at things in context; I don't consider the American system inferior just because it sets different goals and is more "economically" driven, emphasizing practical, "marketable" skills over some vague notion of "general culture"—within its own framework, it succeeds at what it sets out to do. In my view, the main flaw of the American system isn't that, but rather that its top-tier schools and best professors are essentially "bought" by the private sector, meaning elite education isn't accessible to everyone, even if those private institutions are indeed world-class...

As for myself, I personally worked much harder, progressed much further, and learned significantly more within the best institutions the US has to offer than I ever did within the best the American system provides... though that is just my own singular experience, of course...

Yeah, I know exactly what we're talking about—and what those people up there are doing—because they... Wrong. Learn by doing—using actual examples.

I’m not saying Americans aren't masters at making everything incredibly banal—honestly, that’s how most people here see them anyway—but between all those "Idiot's Guide to X" books and the endless "What your toddler needs to know about Y" nonsense clogging up the market, they really have perfected the art of oversimplification. Still, they can be just as... Top tier. When it comes to breaking down complex ideas and making them actually make sense—American kids definitely have the edge. Got it. I'd definitely grab my textbooks and study guides from back home in America—it was my experience too—because everything is explained perfectly there.

I mean, obviously American kids don't need an instruction manual attached to every single textbook—as if they wouldn't figure it out on their own.

American textbooks tend to be pretty traditional—short, punchy, and focused strictly on the essentials without wasting time on fluff. They don't lean much into deep dives or primary sources—like reading actual historical documents, for instance—and still rely heavily on just memorizing facts for a test. Meanwhile, over in Europe, there’s a much bigger push toward practical application—actually using what you learn in the real world.

So you did a content analysis on American textbooks, and now you're suddenly an expert? I have no idea when you last actually laid eyes on an American textbook—but around here, they swap them out every single year (which is definitely a mess)—and there are so many different publishers involved that you can find completely different books being used for the exact same subject within a single school district. We’re basically just like Americans in that regard, unfortunately.😁

Depends on how you define "well-educated." Personally—and I might be wrong here—I don't think the whole point of school is just to cram a bunch of random facts into your head.

Not me either—honestly.🙂 I have no idea why you'd lump me in with that crowd—honestly.

When it comes to the basics—my niece over in the States attending that private academy gets way more than my daughter does—and honestly, her classmates are basically just living out that exact scenario placidorca16 described.🤷 In my experience, there’s this huge, sweeping prejudice here that the American school system is a total disaster—people just completely ignore how incredibly diverse it actually is.

I already pointed out which part of the system I’m talking about—not really in the mood to repeat myself.

I get where you're coming from, but here’s the thing—the private sector in the US is massive (we've even got those weird charter schools everywhere). It covers a way bigger chunk of the student population than what we see back home, and honestly, the top-tier schools are almost exclusively in that private bracket. You're basically trying to compare the American public sector to our public sector without accounting for the fact that their demographics aren't even the same—it's like you're ignoring the fact that the best of the best in the US is tucked away entirely in the private sector. Out. That sector is a mess—especially since the leadership in the States is such a joke. Inside. That whole sector—just my luck.

Well, some private K-12 schools—especially those prep academies—have already carved out a niche here in the States by churning out students with massive Ivy League acceptance rates. So, really—your point about the US doesn't quite hold water anymore.

Based on my own experience, I’d argue that the top tier of American education—think elite private schools—actually outperforms the best of our public high schools.

That’s your take—and honestly, I’m just not buying it.

You mentioned that Americans can't see past their own borders—or something close to that. And honestly, we’re kind of ahead of the curve since we have a more globalized education instead of that hyper-US-centric approach. It makes sense, though—it's hard to build a curriculum centered entirely around one country when you don't have the massive scale they do—but in terms of geography, history, art, and literature, we definitely get a much broader view.

Look, we don't exactly have that exact brand of "centrism" here—but any kind of Western-centric bias (or just being overly patriotic) isn't quite the same level of trivialization you were describing when you brought up how we teach 12-year-olds in the States about our liberal welfare state. Personally, I think the Canadian system handles it with much more depth—it’s definitely less shallow.

Look, it isn’t really about having "more" or "less" knowledge—it’s more about how the systems are built. You have one system that prioritizes breadth—think the American approach—versus a system focused entirely on depth. American students might lag behind on things they haven't officially covered yet, but when you look at the subjects they actually study, their specialized knowledge is usually way ahead of the curve. Yeah, they are. High school was basically a grind—especially since half the classes were basically college-level courses in disguise. No joke, you could practically knock out a chunk of your future degree requirements before even stepping foot on a campus.

😂 Well, you really cracked me up there. I guess we finally get a front-row seat to all the "glories" the American university system has to offer us.🙄 Basically, it all boils down to lowering the bar, shrinking the scope, and diluting the actual quality of knowledge—all while ramping up the bureaucracy and obsessing over appearances. It’s just endless paperwork and style over substance at this point. So, thanks for nothing, I guess.👎 Every single day—it's like the universe is just checking off boxes to prove my points right.

I don't think you can compare them one-to-one—different systems just have different goals. Personally, I still lean toward the American approach in that regard; I feel both primary and secondary education should focus more on breadth than depth. But look, I like to provide context—I don't view the American system as inferior just because its objectives are framed differently. It’s heavily geared toward economics, prioritizing practical, "marketable" skills over some vague sense of "general culture"—but within those specific goals, it actually succeeds at what it sets out to do.

Why the sudden shift? You’re coming across as a bit inconsistent here. Up until now, you've been championing the overall "quality" of the American system, but now it sounds like you're saying its main virtue is just being pragmatic.😢 While I agree pragmatism is a plus, I definitely wouldn't say it's the *only* thing you can get from a high-quality education. There are other benefits—and they're just as vital.

In my opinion, the real flaw isn't about the curriculum—it's that the top-tier schools and best professors have essentially been "bought out" by the private sector. That means elite education isn't accessible to everyone, though granted, those private institutions are truly world-class.

True, I'll give you that. But the issue isn't just about accessibility; it's that those "pragmatic" goals aren't aimed at the public good, but rather at serving private interests. It's an elitist structure designed to be reproduced for the sake of maintaining the power of the upper class. There's no real intention to make that kind of "pragmatism" available to the masses.😁

Personally, I’ve worked harder, progressed further, and learned significantly more through the best things the US has to offer compared to anything available back home. But again, that's just my own experience.

Well, nobody is disputing that. 🙂 You had that experience, and you aren't the only one—and I assume you didn't stop after high school, either. We aren't even talking about universities here. But we can't generalize an entire national education system based on individual anecdotes. Experiences can be great or terrible, whether you're in the US or anywhere else. We're talking about large-scale systemic trends, not just single people.😉

jadegardener21 said:

The biting chill of a north wind... it just settles deep into your bones, doesn't it? There is something about that relentless, freezing gust sweeping down from the northern reaches of the country that makes one feel quite small and rather ill-prepared, regardless of how many layers of wool one might attempt to pile on... It carries a certain sharpness, a sense of inevitability, much like the sudden shift in temperament one experiences when the seasons turn without warning. One moment you are enjoying the mildness of an afternoon, and the next, you are bracing against a draft that seems determined to penetrate even the thickest insulation of a suburban home... It is quite unsettling, really. jadegardener21 says:
🙄 If this is how they’re teaching the concepts of the "liberal" and "social" welfare state in American schools, then I suppose it’s hardly any surprise that your average citizen is left wandering around in total ignorance... they probably know enough about the dollar bill and the Stars and Stripes to get by, but beyond that, there seems to be nothing but a reflexive urge to spit on anything that dares to look even slightly different from the standard US system... it’s all just a blur of superficial patriotism and a complete lack of actual understanding...😁 This is nothing more than a prime example of how certain sociological phenomena are being stripped of their complexity and reduced to mere caricatures, all in the pursuit of that typical, superficial American style...👎 I truly appreciate being enlightened by such an educational demonstration... ☕

The American educational system is frankly a disaster, far from where it ought to be if we actually cared about excellence... It’s a mess, really, and quite frankly, it leaves a lot to be desired when you look at how things are handled elsewhere. If one were to look toward the most advanced models currently in existence—the kind of systems that actually prioritize true learning—one would have to look toward Finland and those other Scandinavian nations... which makes you wonder why we can't seem to grasp the concept.

Of course, your typical middle schooler—using a textbook designed for, say, an eighth grader, which is supposedly a crowning achievement of the American educational system—is somehow capable of distinguishing between the concepts of a social state and a liberal state at a highly sophisticated level... they can place both models within their proper historical context, and it goes without saying that they were required to read the foundational texts from the leading proponents of both ideologies... ☕

Let’s not kid ourselves here, especially when we are discussing an educational system where philosophy and politics are squeezed into a single school year, and frankly, based on the textbooks I once swapped out for someone else's lecture notes just to gauge the supposed "breadth" and "depth" of the material... well, it's a joke. American children are likely even more clueless than the students this curriculum was actually designed for...

The American school system operates on a completely different wavelength than what I experienced back home, and honestly, it’s a double-edged sword with its own unique set of headaches and perks. Since I’ve actually sat through classes in both countries, I feel uniquely qualified to weigh in—and before anyone tries to dismiss my take as just some baseless rant fueled by Hollywood stereotypes, let me be perfectly clear... I know what I'm talking about. When you look at the reality of an average American high school versus an average school in the States... Not really... It’s all the same, really... whether you’re looking at a standard high school or one of those specialized preparatory academies, they don't actually weigh your GPA by default when applying to university, which feels like a bit of a missed opportunity if you ask me... and honestly, once you peel back the prestige, there isn't much of a tangible difference in terms of the actual intellectual depth or the breadth of knowledge they provide to students... it's just more of the same...
Regarding the whole business of private schooling here in the States... well, that’s really an entirely different conversation altogether, and frankly, it makes much more sense within the context of America than it ever would have in some other place... ☕ Let’s just say that within this particular sector, children have the potential to achieve something truly, truly massive... we're talking about reaching heights that are practically unimaginable within the standard American system, whether you're looking at the public sector or private corporations alike...

It is fundamentally dishonest to take the absolute best examples from one system and hold them up against the mediocre or even the worst elements of another... You likely have no idea just how much variety exists within the American school system, much like how our own domestic landscape isn't some monolith, ranging from elite private academies to those truly subpar vocational schools that struggle to find their footing... Neither the American educational scene nor our local environment is a single, uniform entity; it is incredibly diverse and fragmented... To base an entire opinion regarding a whole SYSTEM on nothing more than a handful of individual anecdotes or a few lackluster, average institutions is, quite frankly, logically unsound...

I simply "adore" it when people decide to get all high and mighty about how Americans supposedly don't understand geography... honestly, just tell me, if you were to stop a random group of pedestrians on a street corner here in the States, how many of them could actually pinpoint exactly where North Carolina, Panama, or say, Yemen, sits on a world map? I’d bet my life savings you wouldn't find many who could do it accurately... and it's the exact same thing when we start getting into the weeds regarding a serious grasp of liberalism, or frankly, any other subject of substance for that matter...

I have no idea what the Scandinavian school system actually looks like in practice, but if we’re going to sit around here and debate this, I would very much like for us to establish some clear-cut criteria... specifically, what exactly are we measuring against, and by what metrics are we even judging success? Because if you are honestly suggesting that PISA tests serve as a serious benchmark—something capable of truly and "representatively" capturing the actual knowledge possessed by children in various nations—then I simply cannot follow your logic... why on earth would anyone believe that? To me, these PISA rankings feel exactly like those dubious university rankings that measure professors based on citation counts or some other arbitrary metric that might not even be tangentially related to the actual quality of education being provided... 🤷

(My apologies, truly... I realize I’ve been veering quite heavily into off-topic territory here...)

No, because what you’re claiming is taught in American textbooks regarding the liberal and social state is just flat-out wrong—it's a total distortion of what those terms actually mean. They're being given a completely skewed definition, obviously with an agenda behind it.😁

Shakespeare:

American kids who actually get their hands on this textbook probably know even less than the average kid here in the States.

Fair enough—you're entitled to your opinion. Personally, I suspect they know a hell of a lot more than the Americans do.🙂

Shakespeare:

The American school system is worlds apart from what I experienced back home—it’s got its fair share of pros and cons. Since I’ve actually sat through both, I promise my take isn't just some uneducated rant fueled by Hollywood stereotypes—so, here's the deal: your average US high school and your average high school over there... Nah. High school—since they don't even look at your GPA by default—doesn't really offer anything special in terms of depth or breadth. It’s all pretty much the same.

The average high schooler here in the States still somehow manages to outpace the average American student when it comes to actual education—and honestly, it’s the same story with Shakespeare.

Shakespeare:

As for the private school sector here in the States... that’s a whole different beast entirely—and honestly, it makes way more sense for America than it ever would for anywhere else. ☕ Look, in that sector, kids can actually—and I mean *really*—hit levels that just don't exist in the American system—whether you're talking about government work or the private sector.

I’m not talking about private schools—I don't have any inside intel there. In the US, they've had a massive head start with that whole system for centuries, so you'd think the results would actually reflect that. Nobody's really arguing against that point.

Shakespeare:

It’s honestly pretty lazy to compare the absolute best of one system against the mediocre middle—or the literal bottom—of another. You probably don't realize how much variety there is in American schooling—it's anything but a monolith—just like how our local landscape ranges from elite prep schools to some truly bottom-tier vocational programs. Basing an entire opinion on a whole system off a few isolated experiences or a handful of subpar schools is just... logically unsound.

Look, I wasn't trying to pit one "best" against one "worst"—I was talking about the average quality of public education in both countries.

"I just love it" when people get hung up on Americans not knowing their geography. Seriously—if you stopped random people on a street corner in the US, who actually knows exactly where North Carolina, Panama, or say, Yemen, sits on a map? I’d bet my life you wouldn't find many. It's the same deal if we start talking about a deep understanding of liberalism, or honestly, pretty much any other topic.

I didn't even bring up geography—where did that come from? I was talking about general, baseline knowledge.

I don't know what the school system is like in Scandinavia, but since we're on the subject, let's actually set some CRITERIA here: compared to WHAT, and by what specific metrics?

Well, feel free to go do some digging if you're that curious.