Posts by Susan James

I honestly can't believe I'm saying this, but I think I finally found my rhythm! It feels like everything is just clicking into place lately. I was grabbing a coffee at Starbucks this morning, thinking about how much has changed over the last few months, and I just felt this sudden wave of optimism. It’s those little moments of clarity that really make it all worth it, don't you think? Just feeling steady and ready for whatever comes next. kaže:
We had our checkup and some testing done at the doctor's office today. By the end of the appointment, my wife told me that everything went perfectly and that he did a fantastic job with the whole process. She asked me what I thought about it. I’ve been thinking about whether my little guy is actually ready for school yet, but honestly, he isn't even close to the age limit—he’s only six and a half. I get the feeling that everyone seems to be getting asked this same question lately! 🤷

It looks like some people in this discussion have completely misread the question.
Yeah, she asked us the exact same thing, and honestly, it makes total sense that she would. It’s actually a bit of a shame if she didn't ask—it's such a valid question to have.

That’s a perfectly fair question to ask.
It might be worth asking the parents if their child’s behavior during the session actually matches how they act at home. For instance, you could ask if the kid was more or less focused than usual, or just generally how cooperative they were throughout the process. It really helps to know if what we saw in the testing room is a true reflection of their everyday personality.
It really comes down to how a parent perceives things—and whether they actually see what’s happening at school. I mean, when you're the one looking after your kid every single day, and you know you'll be doing the exact same thing once they start their formal schooling, you develop a certain perspective. You notice the little details that others might miss because you're right there in the thick of it daily.

Just because parents are hit with that question doesn't mean they're going to immediately try to pull their kids out of school. 🤣Honestly, I think that specific bit of dialogue is actually pretty crucial for both the doctor and the parent when it comes to making the right call for the kid. It opens up this vital space for them to talk through what’s actually needed for school—balancing what the parent thinks is best with what the reality on the ground actually looks like.

I'm guessing you said NO just to see what I'd ask next! I’ve been thinking a lot about how much things have changed lately. It feels like we're constantly navigating new updates and shifts, whether it's at work or just in our daily routines. I remember back when I first started my current job, everything felt so much more predictable, but honestly, I think I prefer the pace we're at now—it keeps me on my toes! Does anyone else feel like they're constantly playing catch-up, or is it just me? I'd love to hear how you all are managing the recent changes. It’s such a tough spot to be in when you start noticing those little gaps in your child's development. You see them struggling with something—maybe it's emotional regulation or just basic independence—and you find yourself wondering if they're actually behind. I always think it would be so helpful to have someone, maybe a pediatrician or a trusted teacher, who could step in and give you some perspective. I wish I could just ask an expert, "Hey, is my kid actually lagging, or am I just being overprotective?" It would be amazing to have a professional look at their behavior and tell me, "Actually, most kids this age are right where yours is," or conversely, "Yeah, you're right to feel this way; maybe giving them an extra year to really mature and catch up is the best move." Having that kind of clarity would take so much of the guesswork out of parenting. It’s hard enough trying to figure out what's "normal" without feeling like you're constantly second-guessing your own instincts.

From what I can gather, you said "yes," and she actually agreed with you! She even went as far as giving you some specific exercises to work on fine motor skills. To me, that suggests she’s completely on board with everything else from the exam, except for this one little area that just needs some consistent practice over the next six months.

nimblelynx7 said:Personally, I don't see the point in forcing a kid into school before they turn seven.

I still remember some colleagues who started school before they even hit seven. They were always struggling—academically, behaviorally, even physically, they were just smaller and behind.
When I started college, I had a classmate who was basically a teenager compared to us because he started way too early. Even the registrar's office staff weren't sure if his enrollment was even valid or if they needed to set up special meetings for his parents. 😁

Nobody is going to be stuck in high school in their twenties unless they fail a grade. And even if they're nineteen and still in school, what's the rush? To get a job at the IRS?

I haven't quite caught your drift there! What's on your mind? 🤣
Or maybe join the military? 🤔 🙂

Not to go off-topic here, but high school is actually allowed until you're 21. So, it doesn't really matter if a student is 18, 19, 20, or 21—it's all within the rules. 🥳)
Of course, someone starting school a little later might have fewer chances of repeating a grade and staying on track with their classes, but hey, at least they get some extra playtime before the real work begins! 🤷

frozenrider15 said:Since we’re talking about grading physical education and home workout routines, let me tell you about my kid's summer. We spent the whole break jumping rope, playing catch, running drills, and doing hopscotch. This year, she even tried attempting forward rolls on the bed. And honestly? Despite all that effort, she’s completely uncoordinated—it's like she has two left feet and two left hands. She can barely manage two, maybe three jumps with a rope before she loses her rhythm 😵. As for those forward rolls, she still needs help, and single-leg hops require an exhausting amount of concentration. The only thing she’s actually mastered is throwing a ball.
She isn't flexible at all. To be blunt, I won't be surprised when her PE grades drop to Cs or Ds. Right now, her marks are fine, but how long can you expect hard work to pay off when the results just aren't there? I'm prepared to sit her down and explain that failing a forward roll doesn't matter, but showing up and giving it her best during gym class does.
Her motivation isn't being killed by the grades yet, because they're still decent, but she knows deep down that athletics isn't her thing. She hates it. She watches other kids nail these moves and realizes she just can't. I can't stop that comparison, though. It’s like when she comes home with a C and starts comparing herself to Kate, who always pulls an A. The world is cold like that; everyone has their own lane.

There's a big difference between comparing who runs faster or who hits the target better in gym class versus comparing who gets an A or a C because of it.
The first kind of comparison is totally normal and actually pretty healthy; it can motivate a kid to improve or help them accept their weak spots while leaning into their strengths.
The second kind is just pointless.

I’ve mentioned this several times in different threads, but I truly feel that grading in elementary school is mostly unnecessary. These are basic life skills that kids need to master regardless of whether they get a grade or not—not just for future schooling, but for real life. Since grading exists, though, it really bothers me when teachers grade based on things like effort or simply bringing in the right supplies. This happens even in subjects like PE or Art, which, as far as I know, carry the same weight as Math or English.
If a kid gets graded just for consistently bringing their gym clothes, why aren't they getting graded in Math for always having their notebook, textbook, and workbook ready? Or their pencils and pencil case? In Math, you actually have to demonstrate that you understand the material to get a grade.

As for Art, there’s another issue. Kids often get constant praise in other subjects (especially Foreign Language or Religion)—things like "Bravo!" or "That's a lovely drawing" or just straight As. But then, when they get an Art assignment where they aren't just decorating something or illustrating a text, but actually have to execute a specific task from start to finish, they end up with a C or a B because they didn't follow the instructions perfectly, even if the drawing itself looks amazing.
Also, I don't quite get why Art projects get displayed on the walls (where kids are basically practicing certain techniques) while we never see Math worksheets or practice sheets for learning how to write a letter 'Z' posted up there.

Brian Jones8 said:Do you honestly think that’s how their heads work?

Being gifted doesn't mean you're immune to social or emotional immaturity. Some kids are just struggling, regardless of their IQ.
Take my friend, for example. Her little guy was born in April—super bright, advanced, ahead of the curve in every way... but man, he can't seem to shake his mom's side. He deals with these anxieties that my own kid wouldn't even recognize (probably because my kid isn't nearly as much of a prodigy as he is).

Yeah, giftedness often goes hand-in-hand with emotional immaturity and social struggles for a variety of reasons. Since these kids have needs that are met in slightly different ways, people don't always know how to react. On one hand, their environment might not be cognitively stimulating enough, and on the other, people might set impossibly high expectations because the child is smart, which can take a toll on their emotional life when parents struggle to handle it.

Being born in April doesn't make a child obligated to start school right away. School isn't something they are "destined" for based solely on a birth month. At most, they might qualify for early enrollment.

When deciding whether to hold a child back from starting school, you really have to look at the environment they'll be staying in—specifically, whether that setting can actually foster their development or if it will hinder it.
If a child is spending another year in preschool and is already showing social or emotional difficulties, that extra year might actually be a burden rather than a benefit, especially given their high intellectual abilities. It’s particularly tough if they see all their peers heading off to elementary school while they stay behind. They notice those visible differences—like being faster at math problems, reading, or writing—much more acutely than others might realize.
Gifted kids pick up on those gaps very quickly. Often, they struggle to socialize because they can't find anyone interesting enough to connect with or someone to challenge them, and then being left in that same environment for another year can feel even more isolating. 🤔

Deciding whether to delay school is never an easy call. There are so many factors to weigh to ensure you're doing what's best for the child. It shouldn't just be about getting a piece of paper or taking a breather because it's convenient for us; we need to consider what the child will be doing during that extra year and what skills they can learn, and with whom, during that time.

Robert Rodriguez9 said:I'm guessing she meant those born right on the border. Look, you might be talented, but we're backed up, and based on your age, you can wait another year.

In that case, I wouldn't want to delay a gifted child's schooling either.🤷
Honestly, we shouldn't make things harder for them by making them wait.😢

With gifted kids, you often run into social or emotional immaturity, which can sometimes be a reason to hold off on starting school early. But you really have to look at how they’re doing in preschool and what kind of support system they have at home. Personally, I’d rather see a child get settled into a school environment than leave them stuck in preschool too long. I worry they might end up feeling like, "I'm not going to school because I'm not smart enough," especially when they see other kids who might struggle more academically heading off to class anyway.
Kids naturally compare themselves to others, and gifted children are very aware that they're different from their peers. They don't need any extra messages that contradict their expectation of moving forward into school, especially when they're coming from fairly uniform groups.

Joshua Ortiz2 said:But what happens if some kid with actual talent grows up in a tiny little town that only has one single elementary school? Are they seriously expected to just pack up and move to a bigger city like Chicago or something just to get a decent education? 😁

Man, this is the first time I’ve even heard anyone bring that up...

Probably not.🤣

Some schools in places like Chicago or Seattle have specific programs for gifted students, so teachers usually know how to steer them toward the right resources—like schools that offer more foreign languages or extra-curricular activities.
But this is the first I've heard about people picking schools just because the enrollment process gets so hectic. 😲

Robert Rodriguez9 said:Just wanted to add that even gifted kids can get bumped to a later start if enrollment gets too crowded—at least, that’s what one child psychologist told me.

Wait, what kind of delay are we talking about? 😕
And what happens if there's a huge surge in applications next year too? Does that mean they just skip school until there aren't enough kids left?
Or maybe once they finally enroll next year, they just jump straight into second grade to catch up? 🤔

I know people usually suggest that gifted kids look into less crowded schools or specialized magnet programs, but suggesting they delay their education entirely feels like a pretty radical first step, 🤷

Jack Rivera87 said:I find these delays a bit surreal sometimes—most kids are perfectly ready for school by age six and a half, and the system is built for them. Pushing it back to seven or eight feels like gaming the system, honestly. A kid turning eight in late autumn has such an massive advantage over a typical six-and-a-half-year-old. That gap just widens when you compare a twelve-year-old to someone nearly fourteen. In my view, delaying should be reserved for actual developmental needs—concentration issues, speech delays, processing struggles—things like that. Using it just because it’s easier for Mom? That feels like unnecessary rule-bending. No reason for it. You won't believe this, but based on some specific professional criteria, school start dates were set. My oldest started right on time—she was born in January and was the youngest in her class. It seems like everyone born in February, March, or April opted for a delay—I don't get the logic. My younger one was born in July, and I actually considered enrolling her early since she has the potential, but the school psychologist advised against it. Apparently, so many parents are asking for delays now that if she started "on time," she'd be almost two years younger than her classmates?!?? It clearly feels like a trend—avoiding the standard school commitment without any real cause. The worst justification I've heard is "so they can enjoy themselves while they can," implying that once school starts, life is essentially over.
What is "over"? Does learning basic things between ages eight and eleven mean everything in life is finished? That there's no more play? That they've been swallowed by adulthood? That is such a terrible educational message to send—making kids resent school before they even step foot in it, for no reason. Honestly—the curriculum isn't even that demanding compared to what we went through. I had girls in my class who were barely six by August, and they ended up being some of the top students. Nobody thought it was weird at all.

Or maybe they weren't actually born in those months. It's been common knowledge for years that kids born then can't get into preschool easily, and it’s just not practical for parents to take unpaid leave or rely on childcare from February all the way through August.🥳
Everyone knows when to plan for a baby; you aim for a birth date before August 31st, but definitely not before June 1st.🐔

Honestly, I think focusing solely on the birth date is pretty misguided. You really need to look at what the child is actually capable of.
For instance, a kid born on April 1st, 2009, who didn't ask for early enrollment, would be 7 years and 5 months old when they start school. Meanwhile, a kid born on March 31st, 2010, who is also required to attend, would be 6 years and 5 months old. That’s a full year difference!🥳

In my experience, it's much easier to request a one-year delay for school than it is to try and push for early enrollment.

Chris Grant3 said:Why isn't there a single comic book on the required reading list? Do you guys think it would be a good idea for kids to get introduced to at least one graphic novel while they're in school? And if so, which one do you think actually deserves a spot?

What do you mean there aren't any?
The librarian I was talking to mentioned that Doris is actually on the second-grade reading list.

hiddendriver34 said:@rowdypanther12, I totally get where you're coming from, and honestly, your points make a lot of sense.

@nosorog, listening to you, it feels like you’ve got some pretty heavy biases against religion—especially Catholicism (which might just come from a fear of the unknown). Do you seriously believe that people of faith don't feel actual pride in their achievements? Or that they only follow social norms because they're terrified of hell? That they spend their whole lives living in pure dread? I honestly don't even know how to respond to that.

I really don't have the energy to keep this debate going or dive into deep theological rabbit holes. All I'll say is that nothing makes my skin crawl more than a fanatic. As much as the sight of those ultra-conservative religious types reminds me of some of the most stuffy folks you'll find in the Midwest, I can't stand militant atheists either. You know the type—the ones who act like they hold the monopoly on TRUTH and treat every believer like some clueless idiot playing with magic tricks.😁

I'm not feeling any fear at all—especially not when it comes to the unknown. 😉
I've actually run into this topic quite a few times before, coming from several different directions.
I don't just look at my immediate family or the relatives I've chosen to stay close to; I also keep a close eye on the kids I work with. Through them, I’ve noticed some really massive gaps between what kids in urban areas are hearing versus those growing up in more rural parts of the country, especially when it comes to the messages they get from religious education and attending Mass.
The differences are massive. Seriously, huge. It’s nothing like what you see here in America.

It really comes down to how people experience and interpret faith, the rituals they use in prayer, and their overall patterns of behavior.
At its core, faith is really about subjectivity. It’s all down to how you personally experience and interpret things, which I actually think is a pretty beautiful way to look at it.
Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable just letting my eight-year-old run with an interpretation that goes against everything I believe in. It’s tough when you can't fully back them up on something, and I think I'd struggle to just step back and let them navigate those kinds of disagreements on their own at that age. 🤷I’m really careful about how I handle things. My goal isn't to undermine the teacher's authority through my actions or the way I engage in discussions. Honestly, I don't want to cast doubt on the rest of the faculty or the school administration either—regardless of how I personally feel about the education system as a whole.

I might not have been clear enough there, and it looks like we were actually on two different pages! In my previous post, I wasn't really talking about believers in general. I was actually responding to your point about parents who aren't religious themselves, yet still sign their kids up for Sunday school. It’s that funny situation where they end up wondering why their eight-year-old is rolling their eyes or acting awkward while praying at the church doors, but then you argue it's perfectly fine because the kid should have the right to choose for themselves and parents just need to respect that autonomy.
I actually see things a little differently.

If a kid is being raised at home with their parents, praying together and heading to church as a family, I honestly don't have any issues with what they’re being taught in religious education. To me, that's a personal family matter.
Thinking about that kid and their family.
He actually has this unique privilege where the government essentially funds his religious influence within the school system. It’s pretty wild—he gets to have his beliefs heard during classes, and sometimes he even gets to practice them right there on campus. We're talking things like blessings for the start of the school year, dedications for the buildings, even special ceremonies for school supplies or food. They even weave it into Christmas programs. It’s definitely a level of institutional support that most people don't see.

I have some questions regarding children—which is something that hits home for me since I'm a parent too. Specifically, I'm thinking about kids whose parents don't really practice any religion at home or incorporate faith into their daily lives, and who also don't participate in the kind of formal religious education typically offered through schools. Not quite..
To start with, they’re sending this kid double messages—especially when the child starts getting really interested in religion and that kind of content becomes a focal point.
Generally speaking, I feel like faith is such a deeply personal matter that kids really need a steady, reliable adult in their lives to help guide them through it. A teacher managing a classroom of 25 students twice a week just can't provide that kind of one-on-one mentorship. That’s why I think it makes so much sense for the core discussions about faith and its teachings to happen at home—whether it's with parents, grandparents, or an older sibling. Ideally, religious education classes should serve as a way to bring families together, providing a framework that encourages parents to stay involved in those big conversations with their children.

Regarding >'s question and dilemma, I honestly think it’s a bit silly to expect religious education classes to have zero connection to how faith is discussed or lived at home. It's unrealistic to assume parents won't have any role to play in that process.

For practicing believers, the ritual of prayer holds deep significance (and I truly respect that).
The ultimate goal should be to raise someone who understands prayer, uses it meaningfully in various daily situations, and doesn't just go through the motions blindly.

I've met plenty of people of faith for whom prayer was a lifeline during a crisis—it provides hope and encouragement in all sorts of tough spots.
Among believers.
However, I also know that when kids are randomly told they need to pray, it doesn't always help. In some cases, it can actually hinder them, both in their emotional development and their day-to-day life.
If a child in first or second grade is told they need to pray every single day, they’ll likely take that instruction very seriously. It’s the same way they’d react if they were told they had to read an entire page of text every day just to learn how to quote things, or if they were forced to write nine lines of the letter "S" because they struggle with handwriting.
But the real issue is *why* the child is praying. Is the act itself placing a developmental burden on them—essentially making them feel responsible for adult problems? For example, I've heard stories about kids thinking if they just pray hard enough, Dad will finally find a job, or Mom and Dad will stop fighting, or the divorced parents will get back together. I've heard many accounts of children feeling this heavy sense of guilt, as if they "failed" because things didn't change.
And I don't just mean when a teacher tells them that's how prayer works. Often, a child who still possesses a bit of "magical thinking"—which is totally normal for their age—will start praying on their own, clinging to a sense of hope.
They're doing this with very little information and incredibly high expectations.
Plus, without proper guidance or support from the adults in their lives—who might even hold conflicting views on the whole matter—they're left navigating it alone.

hiddendriver34 said:So, one of my close friends—who’s a staunch atheist (she’s actually the same friend who stayed with her ex and then moved right on to her current partner during New Year's)—has this kid who is absolutely obsessed with religious studies. He's a third grader and totally lives for it. We were recently hanging out downtown near a local landmark when he actually asked us to wait a second because he wanted to stop and say a quick prayer. He’s a believer through and through😁.

The thing is, his mom just rolls her eyes at him. Every single time he does something like that, she hits him with these sarcastic, mocking little comments. I actually spoke up and told her straight: don't do that. You’ve got to show some respect for his choice, even if he is only eight years old. Who knows? In ten years, he might decide he’s a hardcore atheist. Or maybe he’ll join the Hare Krishnas. Or become a Mormon. At the end of the day, that’s his call to make, and he shouldn't be judged or ridiculed by his own parent for it.

Religion is one of those things where parents instinctively feel the need to force their views onto their kids. Whatever they happen to believe, they want their children on the same page.

In my opinion, a parent who truly wants to support their child's growth as an individual should hold back. You have to give them the breathing room to think for themselves and make their own decisions. You have to respect their path—whatever that ends up being.

Are we talking about an 8-year-old or a 16-year-old here?

For an 8-year-old:
I want her to still believe in Santa Claus (rather than having some teacher at Sunday school tell her he isn't real while simultaneously insisting that God is).

I want her sense of pride and joy when she succeeds—that genuine spark of wanting to learn something new—to come from herself, rather than her feeling like she needs to thank God for her achievements.
I want her to recognize her own abilities and develop true internal motivation, instead of relying on external religious reinforcement.

When she messes up, I want her to focus on fixing the damage—cleaning up, gluing something back together, or just apologizing and trying a different way—instead of praying for forgiveness for "sins" and living in fear of punishment or performing penance. I want her to know it's okay to make mistakes; it's part of being human. She shouldn't have to fear them or hide them out of shame. I want her to understand that saying "sorry" isn't enough; you actually have to change your behavior. I want her driven by her own heart, not by outside pressure.

I want her to follow rules and social norms because they make life safe and pleasant for everyone right here on Earth, not because she's terrified of hell.

I don't want her growing up with fear, intimidation, guilt, or a sense of helplessness against imaginary things, or participating in rituals that, at that age, mean something very different to a child than they do to an adult.

As for how people view women, children, the LGBTQ+ community, or followers of other faiths—all those traditional stances often tied to religious doctrine—I don't think that's a place for my child.
I want to be the one to help shape those values in her, and then let her question them later on, once she's old enough to critically evaluate how she was raised. She should be able to do that without worrying about burning in hell or feeling like she needs to go to confession just because she disagrees with me or struggles with a commandment.

And honestly? I won't roll my eyes if she decides to say a prayer before bed when she's 16.
But with her being only 8, I don't want to be put in a position where I'm forced to roll my eyes at behavior that I simply don't think is right for her.🤷
I didn't enroll her in religious education, so I don't really run into these dilemmas myself.

Michelle Nelson4 said:I honestly just don't wrap my head around how someone can claim to be an atheist who carries baggage from religious education, yet their first instinct isn't to simply opt their child out. It seems so logical to decide right away, rather than waiting until they see just how much pressure there is to conform before reconsidering. During our first hour today, when the question came up about how many kids weren't attending religious classes, I couldn't help but lie and say we didn't know—mostly because I wanted to spend that time reassuring everyone that it’s not too late to change our minds if we didn't check the box for religious studies during enrollment.

And of course, you have those religious instructors writing posts about how everything is just wonderful, full of flowers and butterflies; I suppose that’s just part of the job description. But for a firm believer in atheism to be willing to accept that everything being taught is absolutely "super" and "fine"... I find that truly bizarre. Honestly, if you really want to sit your child down and explain why they might end up in hell, be my guest. For me, it was more than enough having to explain to my own kid—who isn't attending those classes—that hell doesn't exist and that we certainly aren't headed there. Not to mention the endless mountain of religious nonsense they dump on us through the school portals and parent newsletters.

I was thinking the exact same thing.
It feels much easier to sign them up than it does to try and unenroll them later.

As for those questions... my kid hears all sorts of things from the classmates who do attend. Sometimes there's something left written on the chalkboard from the lesson, so she reads it. She was even flipping through a textbook or a workbook while doing homework at after-school care 🤷
and asks us about it—maybe even more than the kids who actually participate.
So yeah, there is plenty of exposure to religion (even if we set aside Grandma, who heads to church regularly), and it's perfectly clear enough to decide whether they want to take the classes, get baptized, or go to church.

Tyler Ruiz502 said:My bad. I probably could have been more concise. Honestly, whether or not we actually send her depends entirely on how we answer a few things first.

Why are we even stuck in this dilemma? Let her go, see for herself, hear the lessons, and then decide if she wants to believe in any of it or not. Plus—and this is a big "plus"—it keeps her from buzzing around the hallway complaining about it (though that really depends on how many other kids are uninterested in religion class and what kind of alternative they offer). It’s not like she’s going to sit there listening to Buddhism or something.
If being enrolled means she has to commit to a bunch of parish activities—you know, Mass, prayers, joining the choir... that's a hard pass for me. I honestly have no idea how much the classroom religious education actually ties into real-world practice.
But, if it’s all just coloring books and Bible stories during school hours? Then I’m totally fine with it.
The main thing is, if I notice my kid starting to act differently or if she starts obsessing over some weird religious fears, I want to have the option to pull the plug immediately.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy A31 on Reddit

You can't unenroll during the school year (though apparently, you can sign up mid-year).
It is linked to practicing the faith.
Think of it this way: just like an elementary teacher might give homework to practice writing letters, learning street names in the neighborhood, or practicing catching a ball, a religious studies teacher can assign things related to the church (like prayer, visiting different parishes, or attending mass).
And based on that level of involvement outside of class, a child might end up with a lower grade if they haven't done those things or can't participate on equal footing with the kids who are active practitioners.
From what I've seen with kids in the early grades, they often come home wanting to pray at night or asking their grandparents if they're going to church on Sunday, simply because it's new and fun, or because they want to be good students in all their classes, including religious studies.

Regarding the idea that the child should decide for themselves whether to believe, that’s my goal too, but I think they should start tackling that after high school graduation.
I'm honestly too tired right now to go into a deep dive on childhood developmental stages, but just like Harry Potter heads off to Hogwarts after his 11th birthday, I feel like our kids should only really engage with religious studies at that stage of maturity.
Anything before that feels like indoctrination where the child isn't making an independent choice.

Though, from what I observe in real life and here on the forums, for most kids, Jesus is basically on the same level as Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy—mostly just someone who brings gifts.
So maybe early religious education isn't such a harmful influence on non-believers.🤣
It becomes harmful to believers when they realize the gifts are actually coming from their parents.
Then, suddenly, their whole faith gets a little shaken by human deception.

Robert Rodriguez9 said:The question itself is confusing:

It’s weird to me that she’s even still here given everything else she’s written. 🤷

Exactly. She went ahead and listed every single reason why she *wouldn't* enroll, but she completely skipped over why she actually would.

Robert Rodriguez9 said:It’s a little depressing reading what you wrote, especially seeing how much doubt you're carrying given everything else people have already posted on this thread.

I’m actually not quite following—what is she feeling so uncertain about?
Is it just having some downtime during the day? Or is she worried if all the kids from preschool are going to show up?

Jason Ortiz5 said:Look, let me give you a peek into my world so you can judge the mindset of your average parent. Back in first grade, the school actually offered computer lab classes—pretty rare for a small town like ours. By second grade? Poof, gone. Parents were all over choosing choir instead (mostly singing songs for those church-themed school plays), or they felt computers messed up the schedule for music lessons. (We live in a tiny suburb where hitting up the local conservatory is basically a requirement if you want to look like you have your life together. ) So yeah, priorities. It’s more vital that a kid masters music theory than knowing how to use a PC. Who knows, maybe my hometown will eventually produce the next big Sevka.

If a child shows genuine interest and talent, music school can only be a positive thing. I totally get why parents might pull their kids out of computer lab if it clashes with their music schedule.

I've already mentioned my thoughts on computer science; I know people who won't even sign their kids up for electives in fifth grade because they feel like it's just extra busywork or stuff the kids could easily learn on their own at home anyway.
On top of that, if the class is held during an after-school block, it’s almost impossible for the kid to make it. It usually overlaps with music, dance, sports, or language classes. No sane parent is going to pick a subject that messes up their kid's GPA and takes away time from other things they could be learning.
I think it would be a different story if it were part of the core curriculum.
The exact same thing would happen with religious studies if it were held in an afternoon session instead of during regular school hours.

The real issue is that the school system prioritizes elective religious education within the standard school day 👎, unlike foreign languages or computer science, but we've already chewed this cud several times (you're just using an example to back up the point).

Brenda Doyle5 said:Why can't a kid receive the sacraments if they attend church classes instead of religious ed at school? 🤔
Does this mean if someone decides at age 20 they want to make their First Communion, they’re out of luck? Or do they have to take the school version? The church version?
How does the process actually work?

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From what I’ve been told, the Church welcomes members at any stage of life, so it’s definitely possible. I’ve actually heard plenty of personal stories about people doing exactly that—whether it’s getting baptized at 33, completing all their sacraments right before walking down the aisle, or stepping up to be a godparent. It really is an open door for everyone.

And who knows? They might even have to enroll in night school just to pass their religion class. 🤔You know, it’s kind of wild—anyone who graduated high school back in 1997 actually has to retake their high school equivalency exams if they decide they want to head off to college in their 40s. It’s one of those funny little hurdles you don't expect when you're looking to start a new chapter later in life!

I haven't seen any posts from Mestar yet! Looking forward to seeing what they have to share once they jump in. kaže:
You know, you've got a point there. There could definitely be deeper reasons at play, like cultural identity or even politics... I can respect that. As the old saying goes, God works in mysterious ways. Besides, you never really know if that kind of formality might eventually lead someone to discover their true calling from within.

Honestly, people really shouldn't be surprised that the Church takes its sacraments so seriously. It just makes sense. You can't expect someone to go through Communion or Confirmation without actually understanding the weight behind them, or to get married without fully grasping what marriage means as a sacred commitment. To me, it’s all about intention and being mindful of the significance of these milestones.

I wish I could have been there to write this myself—right there in the thick of it, typing away from the perspective of a true believer. 🙏
If you ask me, I’d say this: we can never know for sure, but we can always hold onto hope. If we really lean into the momentum of the crowd and stay consistently present in the conversation, there's a chance someone will truly connect with what we're doing.

And then you have those people on the inside who think they’ve somehow "tripped up" or messed things up. They act like it's some deep spiritual crisis involving Jesus, but honestly? It has nothing to do with faith. To really get things moving, you have to tap into that internal drive—the stuff like accountability, a little bit of healthy shame, or even just the weight of past mistakes and bad reviews. You need that internal pressure to actually spark change.
Numbers matter. If we can show that such a huge number of people actually practice their faith—I'm talking about the practical side, like all the parents enrolling their kids in religious education classes—then we have every right to ask the government for support. We’re talking about funding for churches, salaries for priests, and those dedicated chaplains who visit people in hospitals. It also covers training for educators, the universities that prepare them, and even the cost of printing textbooks. You never know who might be swayed by faith, so as long as these institutions are part of our community, they deserve the resources to stay active.
🙂🍿

Jessica Kelly4 said:Sacraments aren't mandatory, and neither is religious education.
I don't get why people who don't actually practice their faith are so obsessed with these rituals.
Is it just that "just in case, you never know" mentality? 🙂

I totally see where you're coming from.
In many ways, receiving a sacrament has become part of our local American traditions (not that I'm saying that's the whole point).

So, even for those who aren't really religious, going to First Communion is tied to white dresses, flower crowns, fancy lunches, desserts, and gifts.
And everyone goes—well, maybe not everyone, but those few outliers are pretty much negligible.
Then comes Confirmation, which is also part of that cultural tradition involving pretty dresses, first Bibles, professional makeup, hair styling, and picking out your own godparents for the first time, followed by another lunch and more presents...
It’s basically a big social gathering, and everyone shows up (except for those few kids whose parents are punks, hippies, Buddhists, or old-school secularists...).

If you prevent a kid from socializing during religious ed classes, you're essentially cutting them out of the parade.
They end up standing out from the rest of the group.
It's not easy being the odd one out in the hallway for two hours a week, and what happens when everyone starts opening presents after the ceremony? What are you supposed to say then? 🤔

Back in my day, it was like joining the Scouts or those youth clubs that everyone joined.
Nowadays, First Communion and Confirmation have taken that spot—it's like the church stepped in to fill the role once held by those civic organizations.🤣

Still, there are differences, because while there are "declared non-believers," those few individuals per generation are such a tiny minority that they don't really stand out from the crowd of people who might not be strictly practicing but still follow the social norms.

And then there’s weddings.
Because you never know who a young person might choose to marry, it's probably good to have those sacraments sorted beforehand so everything is done properly. Plus, in many circles here, a wedding without the church isn't considered a "real" wedding. Add in the whole social aspect mentioned above, but now with even more expensive gifts!🥳

Kate Brown49 said:I’ve been dwelling on religious education in schools for days now, mostly because of my daughter’s teacher. Honestly, I need to get this off my chest: I find the whole idea of religion being part of the school curriculum pretty repulsive. My husband and I are believers, though we aren't exactly practicing 😬, if you know what I mean. But that's beside the point. Once my daughter started school, she was automatically enrolled in this religious class which, despite being labeled an elective, isn't an elective at all. It's baked right into the daily schedule. Kids who don't take it just wander the halls for 45 minutes, and even that feels discriminatory to me. But let's move past that. If the teacher were a kind, pleasant person teaching spiritual values, I wouldn't care. Instead, this person is incredibly discriminatory, constantly belittling and mocking kids for being overweight, struggling academically, or even just for sneezing. My daughter doesn't fall into any of those categories, yet this class is the one thing she dreads most. She actually has nightmares 😲 because of the comments this teacher hurls at them during class. And it's not just her; I've heard from several kids in different grades, and I know how kids can exaggerate—though I usually tend to side with the teachers. Our godparents' kid has been doing so much better ever since a different religious instructor took over their class.
Truthfully, if we didn't have such a massive crowd of protesters, I probably wouldn't even think about challenging religion in schools. I guess that makes me a hypocrite, but this situation has really made me question why religion belongs in elementary education at all. Calling it an elective is a joke; it's not an elective no matter what they claim. Religion belongs in a church!
Anyway, I feel a bit better now 😬

The whole Catholic Church is basically built on fear and guilt. Honestly, that doesn't surprise me at all—it's just being authentic to who they are. 🤷

When I suggest doing some homework before picking an elective, I mean you should actually talk to the older kids. Ask them what the class is really like and what they actually do in there before you commit.
And honestly? Don't bother sending angry letters to the Department of Education, the Capitol, or even Jesus. An inspector will just show up, look at the paperwork, see everything is technically "by the book," and tell you everything is fine. You’ll never prove this kind of discrimination or dismissal through official channels.
The best way to handle it is to simply have the choice to opt out or withdraw.

At the end of the day, the core teachings of religion are things any religious parent can teach their own child at home. People teach their kids foreign languages and computer skills outside of school all the time; teaching them about God shouldn't be any different.

Jessica Kelly4 said:Because that’s just how the social and political landscape works here in America. It’s staying that way for a while. If any future administration actually tries to change things, they'll have to renegotiate the agreement with Vatican City. Until then, having religion classes in schools is both legal and legitimate.

Can parents not teach reading and writing? Or basic math? Elementary school is mandatory, and since every parent went through it, they should be capable of teaching those basics. Clearly, organized instruction and education still provide some kind of social value.

I was actually wondering why religion class isn't scheduled during the second shift, just like the other elective subjects.
English and math are required, but religion isn't.
A parent is obligated to send their child to school, but they aren't forced to enroll them in religion class.
The real question is whether they would even bother sending them if it were in the second shift—especially if the grade affects their final GPA (or negatively impacts it).