Posts by wanderingbadger44

Alexander Ortiz3 said:It’s honestly quite funny how the people who never step foot in a church—and don't even bother enrolling their kids in religious education—seem to be the loudest voices complaining about it online. 😕
Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but it’s a bit strange to see such intense interest in something they’ve explicitly chosen to opt out of. Still, to each their own; we live in a free country after all. 🙂
Regarding the concerns about supervision during those free periods, neither the Church nor the families enrolled in religious classes have any control over that. If you have complaints about supervision, the Church isn't the authority to contact.
I’d suggest looking at this link if you want the full picture, specifically sections 1.1, 1.4, and 13. You'll find answers to most questions there regarding those attending religious studies. As for the supervision issue during free hours, like I said, please direct those inquiries to the school district instead. 😉

It’s funny how you’re linking to things that actually prove your point wrong. If you look at what’s linked, it’s crystal clear that religious education is an elective subject with a special status, and according to that agreement, it MUST take place during regular school hours. It MUST.

Then you bring up Section 13, which states that all issues arising from this are negotiated between The Cabinet and the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops.

And then you wrap it up by saying people should just talk to the school about their problems. 🤦

The school didn't sign these Vatican agreements. They were imposed by the state and the Church. To be perfectly precise, the Church imposed them on the state.

And now the Church wants absolutely nothing to do with it—yeah, right. Let the teachers deal with it however they can manage. The Church couldn't care less, and these agreements basically give them a legal hall pass to act like they don't care.

Honestly, you're right from a strictly legal standpoint. But from a moral perspective? It's disgusting.

I can't quite recall who this happened to, but I remember seeing a poster about children's rights hanging in a preschool classroom once. A little girl came in with her mom to visit her brothers, and she ended up reading aloud from that poster, saying that any kind of abuse has to be reported to the teacher immediately.

And just like that... she became the center of attention during that first hour of school. The teacher was visibly shaken and followed the official protocol to the letter, even though it was obvious the little one had just made the whole thing up.

rowdypanther12 said:I think we need to be realistic here.
The agreements with the Vatican are already in place; a single school can't just unilaterally cancel them. I won't get into the politics of that, but I hope it's clear to everyone here that I don't support religious education in public schools, nor do I think it belongs in a secular nation.
But
it is what it is, and we should find a practical solution.
Religious ed teachers are paid for those hours, so they’re going to teach the kids who show up, just like an elective German class or an IT instructor would teach the students enrolled in those electives.

The real issue we need to tackle is making sure these electives actually feel optional—meaning there should be other real choices available during that time slot. In the lower grades, having it scheduled during after-school care isn't a fix, whether it's the first or last period.
Every school should offer a genuine alternative so that kids who don't want religious studies have somewhere else to go, rather than just sitting around.
For the older students, it really needs to be scheduled as the first or last period, or perhaps during a different shift entirely.

That would essentially mean violating the Concordat. 😁 That’s the crux of the matter right there. You mentioned earlier yourself that those agreements aren't something you can just tear up. That agreement is incredibly specific and leaves no room for interpretation: religious studies MUST be integrated into the regular school schedule.

There is a way out, of course, but it comes with a price tag. It would require creating an entirely new elective subject specifically for the students who choose not to take religion.

But let's be real—that isn't going to happen for two main reasons. First off, there's no budget for it; we're talking about adding more hours to a child's school day, pulling more funding from the education budget, and hiring a whole new set of instructors to teach this new subject. (And honestly, someone will probably try to "solve" this by cutting teacher salaries and redistributing that money to cover the new staff.)

The second reason is that the Church would absolutely lose its mind because it might lead to even more kids opting out of religious classes altogether.

In reality, though, that second reason is actually the first one. ☕

rowdypanther12 said:It’s not really about kids skipping religion class; the real issue is how disorganized the schools are. Let’s call it what it is.

If there was actually something else available for those students during that period, I think everyone could live with it.
Like maybe a drama club or something.

But then you have to ask: who actually runs that drama program, and where does the funding come from? We're talking about hours that are already fully funded for the religious education instructors. Who is going to foot the bill to pay for these sessions twice over?

Are we honestly expecting every other teacher in the building to volunteer their time while the religious instructors are being paid for those exact same hours?

Karen Richardson3 said:But which faith specifically?

Are we talking about science and Catholicism? Science and Islam? Science and Buddhism? Science and Hinduism? Science and the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses? Or maybe science and Mormonism?

Since every single one of those religions offers completely different answers to the exact same questions, I think it would be helpful if you could elaborate on how they "complement" each other when one group believes humans just die and become meat and bone, another believes in judgment day and an eternal soul, another thinks you’ll be reincarnated as a horse or a letter, and yet another insists the world is ending soon and God will snatch up his chosen Jehovah's Witnesses while everyone else just ceases to exist?

It honestly breaks my heart to read some of the mothers in here who seem so full of nothing but hate and intolerance... I really feel like that's why we can never find any common ground.

Look, you religious folks—who claim to be so devoted to God and love—haven't been able to find common ground with other believers since religion was even a thing.
You basically just generate division, diversity, and intolerance all over the globe.

And then you have the nerve to call us—people who truly don't care whether someone is Catholic, Orthodox, Muslim, or Mormon—as "intolerant," simply because we're fed up with the lying, hypocrisy, and deception used to infiltrate government buildings, where you get to hang your religious symbols while our kids are left hanging out in the hallways? 🙏

Religious education belongs in schools and stays in schools. All this "what if" speculation is totally pointless. It would be much better if we all channeled our energy into making sure no child ever has to worry about a religious instructor if they aren't enrolled in class, or being left to fend for themselves somewhere in the building if they don't need it...

Well, it stays in school until there isn't a school anymore. That's just the way things change; contracts are meant to be updated.
We truly have every right to put our energy into ensuring public schools focus on academic subjects, while faith is taught in buildings specifically designed for that purpose—which, by the way, are usually much nicer looking.

And since you didn't actually answer me, I'll just quote myself:

Churches exist, and people keep building new ones.
Wouldn't it be nicer for believers to be there?
Why don't believers send their children to the buildings built to glorify God?
Why is it such a struggle for religious kids to make it to church twice a week?
What kind of believers are they if they actually require taxpayer-funded infrastructure just to learn about their own faith?

Well, she isn't going to give you an answer. She might even be "honest" enough to tell you it's because the Church craves power, possesses it, and loves to flex it—using that influence to sideline anyone who isn't a believer.

Her actual concern is what she wrote earlier: how can we ensure that a child who doesn't sign up for religious instruction isn't some teacher's headache? How can we all step up so that a teacher getting paid for a Tuesday third period can fulfill their duty without making Anne Anic—who happens to be in that same class—their problem, all while drawing a salary funded by taxpayers like Anne Anic's parents. Let me bold that part:

Nancy Kelly31 said:I am not entirely certain if I am expressing myself clearly enough, but I truly believe that faith and science can exist in perfect harmony. There are certain questions where science provides the answers, while others are best addressed through faith. Because of this balance, both can be taught within our school systems without any inherent conflict... It honestly breaks my heart to read posts from certain mothers here who seem so consumed by hatred and intolerance... I fear that if we continue down this path, we will never find a common language. Religious education belongs in the classroom, and it should stay there. All this speculative "what if" arguing is quite pointless, really. It would be far more productive if we all directed our collective energy toward ensuring that no child is ever forced upon a religious instructor if they aren't enrolled, nor left to fend for themselves in the hallways if they have no need for it...

She isn't worried about the spiritual well-being of those kids. Not at all. No, her focus is on how we should all collectively chip in so that her specific worry and the job she's being paid for by the public can be handled by someone else, leaving someone else responsible. It’s pure Vatican-style perfidy.

When I point that out, I get a strike. Something I'll deal with later.

P.S. I see Nancy Kelly31 added that religious classes can't be held in churches because they lack chalkboards and chalk. Awww... 😍 As if we're all blind and don't notice the massive parish halls and community centers popping up next to churches—facilities that get rented out for profit and somehow dodge the taxman. ☕

Nancy Kelly31 said:I am not entirely certain if I am expressing myself clearly enough, but I truly believe that faith and science can exist in perfect harmony. There are certain questions where science provides the answers, while others are best addressed through faith. Because of this balance, both can be taught within our school systems without any inherent conflict... It honestly breaks my heart to read posts from certain mothers here who seem so consumed by hatred and intolerance... I fear that if we continue down this path, we will never find a common language. Religious education belongs in the classroom, and it should stay there. All this speculative "what if" arguing is quite pointless, really. It would be far more productive if we all directed our collective energy toward ensuring that no child is ever forced upon a religious instructor if they aren't enrolled, nor left to fend for themselves in the hallways if they have no need for it...

The hypocrisy is staggering! Talk about playing the part of a good Catholic.

Don't you feel even a flicker of shame knowing that while you're being paid for your time, someone else has to step up to watch over a student who isn't in your class—essentially doing the childcare work for a period you're being compensated for?

Why insist on occupying a slot in the master schedule? You claim to be an elective, yet thanks to those special agreements with the Vatican, you’ve essentially carved out a guaranteed spot within the standard school day.

It's absolutely shameless.

And she doesn't even blink at suggesting that someone else should cover the hours for which she is receiving a paycheck, even though that other person isn't getting paid for it.

Don't bother arguing, because I already know the script: "They should just take religion class." That's the whole point of the subject, really—it’s baked into the regular schedule under the guise of being an elective. It’s a binary choice, buddy: either you sign up for the religious course, or you spend your time wandering through hallways and libraries under the watchful eye of some random teacher or librarian. Take your pick.

There is something truly fascinating about watching people dig their heels in against the idea of using standardized, objective benchmarks to measure what someone actually knows.

The advocates for experimental teaching methods and those who cling to the philosophy that "every child is a natural genius" seem to be squirming quite a bit lately. 🍿

@hiddendriver34 👍

Justin Allen81 said:From what I understand, parents are required to show up for parent-teacher conferences, plus at least twice per semester for progress updates. Our teacher made it clear right out of the gate—this isn't optional. If you don't show up to check on your kid, they'll call Child Protective Services to do a wellness check. And honestly, from what I can see, parents actually show up.

So, if you’ve managed to attend, say, two conferences per semester and at least two check-ins (whether you want to or not), how on earth can you claim you haven't had concrete feedback for nine months?

That isn't quite how it works. The official district guidelines regarding parental oversight and grading basically boil down to one passive rule: a parent is required to stay informed.

Naturally, everyone interprets that to mean the teacher has the burden of keeping the parents in the loop.

We send out recommended progress reports and feedback letters. But then you have a parent who signs for the delivery and later claims they never actually got it. What are you supposed to do then? 😬 Filing a formal complaint with the school board just ends up burying you in paperwork and wasting your precious time. Not to mention dealing with the fallout from a frustrated parent who might be looking for any excuse to lash out. And honestly, a person wouldn't even regret spending that extra effort if the Mayo Clinic actually stepped in and did something about it.

Susan James said:I am.
Honestly, I get it. It feels like most people don't give this any thought at all.

I haven't received any text to rewrite yet! Please provide the post you'd like me to work on, and I'll get right to crafting it into a fresh, American-style piece while keeping that calm, upbeat persona intact. kaže:
When it comes to descriptive grading, if my memory serves me right, back in those wonderful days of the 80s, you couldn't actually fail a grade because of it. I remember my own school days being much more about encouragement than strict numbers.
At this rate, it feels like we’re just one more hurdle away from a system where even the three kids who fail a grade nationwide every year would somehow manage to pass.🤦

I’m not entirely sure if failing a grade was actually possible back then, but why would you assume that getting rid of letter grades would automatically mean losing the "right" to fail a grade? Just because that was how things worked in the past doesn't mean it has to stay that way.🤔
It’s getting pretty tough to navigate grading these days. Between dealing with sections 4, 7, 10, and 12, plus a mountain of new diagnoses that didn't even exist a few years ago, it feels like a lot. It seems like some people are using those paperwork requirements as a way to shield themselves, which ends up inflating grades—even for students who aren't quite hitting that "A" level. It definitely changes the classroom dynamic.

I honestly think things would just descend into total chaos. Parents would be constantly hovering over teachers, unsure of exactly what they should be asking for or how to handle the communication. It’s one of those situations where too much uncertainty just leads to everyone feeling overwhelmed.
I honestly can't tell if they actually have the best grades in their class or not, but I do know one thing: they’re definitely going to be bragging about it to everyone in town.

Everything said here is spot on.

To be honest, I don't really understand why there's such intense pushback against moving away from traditional grading.

If you look at how things have been handled over the last couple of years since we stopped doing final cumulative grades, it's actually made our workload lighter. We already have to provide descriptive progress tracking for every student regardless.

The reality is that kids end up studying less, though I suppose that's not everyone's concern, and they mostly just play dumb or bury their heads in the sand, yet somehow everyone manages to pass in the end.

nimblelynx7 said:Well, since you didn't include any emojis, I can only sincerely hope that this was just some sort of clumsy irony on your part. 👏

There’s no irony here. If I wanted irony, I’d hear it from my boss while he hands me my walking papers because I had the nerve to tell him I can't do everything solo—that clients need to actually cooperate with me too. You think you have a different perspective just because you work in the public school system? You're dead wrong.

First off, I’d scrap high schools entirely. Four years of wasted time with little to no payoff. In a setup like this, I don't think anyone should be enrolling in prep schools, let alone the self-proclaimed "elite" or those desperate to be part of it.
I’m just sitting here waiting for someone like a local esthetician to get fired because she told a client that she can't fix everything by herself and that they actually need to see a dermatologist or follow a skincare routine at home to see results. ☕

Richard Perez3 said:Listen, for the stuff mentioned above, there wasn't some big school system—it was just us.

But where schools actually exist, who the hell am I supposed to be for them?

Plus, if the public school curriculum is designed so that any average kid can pass, yet your average kid is already struggling... I mean, how are they even teaching this "average" curriculum if the average parent has to work a full-time job just so their average kid can get through an average program?

Exactly, that’s the whole design: it's built so an average student can master an average amount of material with average effort and walk away with an average grade. In our system, that means a C.

But you have to wonder, how many average parents of average kids are actually satisfied with an average C grade?

Let's be real here. To most families, a C is basically a disaster.

Justin Allen81 said:They aren't even that difficult—honestly.🤣
Of course I can't.

I felt that same flash of frustration when my kid turned in an answer that was technically perfect, yet somehow "wrong" because it didn't follow the teacher's specific logic—I think it was back in first grade. It was a math problem, something like: "How many apples does Mary have?"
The kid answered: Four.
Mary has four apples.
So, some guy actually sat there and tried to explain the "purpose" of a child being able to write a full sentence—as if it were some grand philosophical debate. Honestly, I’m still not buying it.😁 I don't really comment on those kinds of things when it comes to him—not his kid, either—unless someone truly goes overboard. And even then, I’m still waiting for the right moment to weigh in.😁)

I have a little something to brag about.😁 I nearly died laughing the other day.😁
I stumbled upon a massive assignment while digging through my bag on Sunday night—something that had to happen, otherwise the whole thing would have just turned into a landfill.
Someone asked a question along the lines of: "America is a noun that doesn't have a plural form. Can you name any other nouns like that?"
"I don't know."

I'm dead.🤣
I spent about three days straight cracking up around the house—just pure, non-stop laughter—and honestly? I’m still feeling the high.😁

I didn't tell her to fix it—just let it be. I’m actually thinking about framing it.🤣

😍

And honestly, that’s a perfectly valid answer to give.

wanderinggardener12 said:How much weight do grades actually carry for a first grader? How many are even necessary? And more importantly, what kind of message are we sending to the child versus what we’re telling the parents?

Consider this scenario: a first grader is halfway through the second semester, and all they have to show for it in English Language Arts are two grades—a C in reading comprehension and a B in literature. The reason for the C? When asked which three stores Pale visited, the student answered "a toy store" and "two grocery stores," whereas the answer key expected "a bakery, a fruit stand, and a candy shop." Where is the evaluation of oral expression—the discussions about the books they read, their ability to articulate thoughts, their creativity, or their reading fluency? Where is the assessment of their handwriting, the heavy workload they complete, the development of fine motor skills through writing, or any meaningful verbal testing?

A friend of mine shared this specific situation with me. Her son started the year barely recognizing letters, struggling with phonics, but he has progressed to reading quite steadily; he reads slowly, but he reads independently, tackles literature, writes, understands everything he reads, and expresses himself well above his age level. He’s even independent when it comes to his homework. So, what is the underlying message being sent here? And what are the long-term implications if those C's and B's
What if this same child also has a single B on a math quiz?
That’s it. No other grades exist. His mother attended the parent-teacher conference, and now they are stuck in a dilemma: should they enroll him in extra tutoring after a grueling school day that runs from 8 AM to 5 PM, or should they just let things play out naturally?

I’ve known this little boy since the day he was born. In preschool, he could count to ten without a hitch, he draws beautifully, he’s organized, he’s inquisitive, performs science experiments at home, builds things, and explores the world around him...

I honestly don't know what to tell her.

She mentions that he hasn't really cared about grades until now, but now... she’s unsure whether she needs to confront him about them or simply allow him to develop without the unnecessary burden of academic pressure.

Not this again. Just a few months back, you opened a similar thread with an almost identical opening, also focusing on a "first grader"—except back then, it was a high schooler belonging to a friend.

Are you just a troll, or is there a real person behind this who is working incredibly hard to undermine anyone offering actual guidance, all just to make sure you come out looking flawless and right in the eyes of those "enlightened" types?

mellowgardener9 said:Do the same rules apply to moderators when they insult other users, or are they somehow protected by their own laws?

Thanks!

Honestly, if you’re going to walk into an argument with such thin skin and lacking the actual verbal tools to hold your own, maybe don't go looking for trouble in the first place. When you decide to jump into one of those rare, deep discussions where people are actually trying to contribute something meaningful, and then you completely fumble through it, you shouldn't be running to your mom or your teacher crying because you caught a bit of heat online.

Know Thyself was simply pointing out the actual quality of your arguments and how much—or how little—you're actually adding to the conversation.

Don't you feel a bit embarrassed drawing this much attention to yourself by dragging this thread in this direction? And as for the others backing you up here who aren't even participating in the actual debate? Well, there isn't much left to say about them.

They remind me of kids in an American elementary school classroom, frantically raising their hands and shouting, "Yeah, yeah! I saw him push him too! He's bigger than me, he shouldn't be hitting people! That's not allowed, right, teacher?! Right?! Right?!"

Jacob Allen said::цхеер:

🤣🤣🤣

I love you. 🙂

But honestly, who's going to be the one to step up and argue whether we should actually be translating the script or just transliterating it?

I’m reporting Jacob Allen because he keeps posting in a foreign language.

Cyrillic isn't actually a language, it's just an alphabet. 🤦

Jason Ortiz5 said:What exactly do you mean by "people like me"?

Look, putting aside how much you love to hear yourself talk and how "eloquent" you think you are, every single thing you write just screams contempt for parents. It’s honestly pretty sad to see someone with that attitude working in education. Actually, it’d be just as tragic if you worked in any field that requires talking to actual human beings. 😢

A huge part of being a professional is just realizing that everyone is different. People think differently, react differently, and have different levels of schooling... some people are a total breeze to work with, while others are tough, or slow to catch on, or just have strong opinions. Sure, it would be way easier if everyone just treated whatever service they were getting as gospel and nodded along like mindless drones. Luckily, at least in my line of work, we don't have many of those types. If we did, incompetent people who are just good at sucking up would be running the show, and everything would fall apart. Education is especially sensitive in that regard, in my opinion. A great educator can change a kid's life, but a bad one can cause real damage. And at the end of the day, parents are parents. Despite how much you try to play smart, most of them just love their kids and want what's best for them. Lots of people mess that up, but teachers mess up too. Parents are often the only ones who will actually question what's happening in a classroom and call out things that aren't good for the kids. Because let's face it—other teachers won't. They might gossip about a colleague's incompetence behind closed doors, but the second an outsider asks a question—even if it isn't criticism, just a genuine question—they all band together to defend one of their own. They don't seem to realize that by doing that, the actually talented and capable ones are just dragging down their own profession.

Shout out to the exceptions, though. Thank goodness there are some...

What a fantastic post! I’d say you’re a wise and kind soul if I could just forget that you were the one responsible for that nasty comment—you know, the one about "poor little teachers... boohoo..."—that prompted me to speak up here in the first place.

Try reading your own post again, but swap the roles of the parent and the teacher. You'll quickly see that your logic holds up even then.

And one more thing: for so many kids, school is the only stable foundation they have in their lives.

Teachers aren't retail clerks or service workers where the mantra "the customer is always right" applies. But if things aren't going smoothly, they didn't earn their degrees through a game of chance; they aren't too dim-witted to use diplomacy when necessary, or to pivot when it makes sense. If parents want to take center stage in their children's education, let them.

Jason Ortiz5 said:If you feel like all the parents (or even just most of them—which is plenty 🤷 ) are just an unreasonable mob looking for handouts, and we’ve already agreed on this forum a million times that kids are basically a mirror of how they were raised, then why are you even working in the school system?

😁 Because I truly love what I do. When I run into people like you, I just handle it with my kindest, most patient smile, much like how a teacher might gently guide a child through a lesson. And I'm still handing out straight A's. 😉

Alex Barnes8 said:But if they genuinely don't know, how are they supposed to fix it?
I guess you didn't always have all the answers back in school, right?

Why would a child be considered slow just because they don't know something yet? 🤷

How many times do I have to say this? The teacher wasn't testing his knowledge. What exactly does the kid "not know"? Why are you all painting him in such a bad light? It’s more like he knows, but he just can't visually process it. If he’s made it all the way to fifth grade with this struggle, then he’s certainly aware of it. And if he isn't aware, well, you can finish that thought yourself...

Were you always an honor student in school?

Let me put this plainly: reading and writing aren't pieces of knowledge, they are functional skills. Thanks for asking about my academic track record, though.

Why would a child be considered stupid just because they don't know something? 🤷

Then you tell me. Is a person unintelligent if they think they understand something, even when life keeps showing them they actually don't?

I put "knowing" in quotes because reading and writing are skills rather than static facts.

Not to mention, we are looking at a scenario that seems almost impossible in a typical American classroom: a student actually asks the teacher to show them exactly where they went wrong. This student isn't shocked or caught off guard by the fact that they scrambled their letters. In fact, they saw it coming. They scan their own work, hunt for the error, and then turn to the teacher to ask for help finding it.

Of course, the student might struggle with that, or deal with anxiety or whatever else comes with it.

The teacher might be some cold, arrogant person who dismisses them with a sharp, sarcastic, and blunt command to just go fix the mistake themselves. We don't know.

Until we know for sure, I'm going to assume that a child standing there silently and motionless before a teacher—offering no reaction to prompts to look at and correct their spelling—is justified in causing a teacher to wonder if the kid is struggling or just acting out. Something the teacher wasn't allowed to say out loud.