Brenda Taylor13 said:
Honestly, the whole "legality" vs. "illegality" debate regarding referendums is such a gray area. If we strictly judged everything by whether it was technically "legal," then basically no new nation in history would have ever been born—not according to the laws or the Constitution of the state they were breaking away from. Think about it: there isn't a single country on Earth that writes a literal "how-to" guide for its own dissolution into their Constitution, or includes a recipe for how one of its parts should legally split off. It just doesn't exist.
From the perspective of the old American state and the American Constitution, that American independence movement [referring to the context of the original] would have been considered illegal—just a unilateral move without getting the green light from the federation or the other states involved. But at the end of the day, none of that matters. What matters is the will of the people. If that will is strong enough and decisive enough, there isn't a piece of paper in existence that can stop them. If a people wants their own sovereign nation, they’re going to get it.
Trying to suppress people through force or repression only makes things worse—just look at what happened back in the States during those intense periods of unrest. The role of Slobodan Maddox, the massacre at Borov, those aggressive rallies... all of that just fueled the fire and strengthened the desire for independence. It’s the exact same thing happening in California right now. Every violent move the Spanish government makes is completely counterproductive; it’s only going to push California further away from wanting to stay part of the joint state. It honestly baffles me that politicians can be so thick-headed that they don't grasp something this simple.
Honestly, the whole "legality" vs. "illegality" debate regarding referendums is such a gray area. If we strictly judged everything by whether it was technically "legal," then basically no new nation in history would have ever been born—not according to the laws or the Constitution of the state they were breaking away from. Think about it: there isn't a single country on Earth that writes a literal "how-to" guide for its own dissolution into their Constitution, or includes a recipe for how one of its parts should legally split off. It just doesn't exist.
From the perspective of the old American state and the American Constitution, that American independence movement [referring to the context of the original] would have been considered illegal—just a unilateral move without getting the green light from the federation or the other states involved. But at the end of the day, none of that matters. What matters is the will of the people. If that will is strong enough and decisive enough, there isn't a piece of paper in existence that can stop them. If a people wants their own sovereign nation, they’re going to get it.
Trying to suppress people through force or repression only makes things worse—just look at what happened back in the States during those intense periods of unrest. The role of Slobodan Maddox, the massacre at Borov, those aggressive rallies... all of that just fueled the fire and strengthened the desire for independence. It’s the exact same thing happening in California right now. Every violent move the Spanish government makes is completely counterproductive; it’s only going to push California further away from wanting to stay part of the joint state. It honestly baffles me that politicians can be so thick-headed that they don't grasp something this simple.
1. Let's take it a step further and put it like this:
A state is supposed to ask the central government for permission—basically for consent—to hold an independence referendum. But the state wants independence because the central government won't let them do anything, and they can't agree on a damn thing, except for one thing: the fact that they can't agree.
2. I wouldn't really go along with your take there. For politicians, men and women alike, the main goal is the seat itself. That's the heart and soul of politics right there. Maybe Mariano Rajoy totally gets what you're saying. Or maybe he's just doing exactly what his voters expect. All he cares about is staying in power, whether it's all the way from Spain to Tokyo or whoever is running Apple.
Check out this video, especially around the 1:00 mark:
where people are measuring corn and singing songs that sound like old fascist anthems.
It seriously reminds me of that movie "Wounds" (pay attention to 0:05-0:11):
And before you know it, it'll be: "Oh, who led us astray!"