Posts by Michael Gonzalez77

Maria Robinson2 said:Michael Gonzalez77,

I suppose you're being more specific than others in this instance,
and
you're right—they basically just mirror religious institutional doctrines.

It’s actually quite interesting, isn't it?
The fact that no one is born fully converted.
Just imagine,
kids are being indoctrinated before they even finish elementary school.
One really needs to distinguish between that initial "conversion" and the various types of transformations that happen throughout a lifetime.

Since we're discussing the flaws of so-called spirituality, I should probably mention this too—if we're being fair.

There aren't really "flaws" in a developmental process; it’s either moving forward or it's being blocked. If it's blocked, the whole process essentially becomes regressive.

Nature is always evolving, and while Life itself is a singular force woven through everything, humans face unique hurdles in how that life manifests within us. Think of it like this: one of the biggest reasons we get stuck is because we pile up layers of impressions. We build these fake lives—false personalities, hollow values, and manufactured needs—all under the guise of chasing desires. But the truth is, life exists perfectly fine without all that extra baggage.

In reality, true life remains almost entirely untouched by this mountain of artificial clutter people cling to. Most people just go through the motions, instinctively comparing their "reality" to someone else's. It's such a common pattern you can see it happening right here on this single page of PDF spirituality.

For most people, actual spiritual growth isn't even happening. It’s not because they lack the talent; it’s simply impossible because their nervous systems and energy are tangled up in distorted information. Their psyche and consciousness are overwhelmed, and they end up identifying with an "I" that isn't even real—it's just a byproduct of past memories and current cravings.

Maria Robinson2 said:I suppose you have a point there—if one actually bothers to distinguish things—in that most people aren't searching for God at all, but rather for themselves,
and then they go ahead and label it a "spiritual quest."

It reminds me of that old saying—having an advantage in something isn't quite the same as possessing actual virtue.
Unless, of course, someone happens to mistake their own ego for being some sort of divine instrument.

Using the word "God" or looking for "Him" "within oneself" is essentially a search for the Self (the Source of the "self," or the Self as the Origin, because there has to be an Origin within a person that serves as the source of their entire experience). There’s really no difference except in how you frame the determinism—assuming human nature is universal. Since the Source of everything is God or Nadduša, or whatever term you use for the First Cause, the search remains the same regardless of the terminology used.

Whether someone experiences delusions about God or self-absorption doesn't depend on whether they read the Bible or not. It depends on whether they are taking actual "steps"—whether that pursuit is truly productive or aligned with the natural progression of growth, which inherently involves developing creativity (I mean creativity in the broadest sense of how one relates to existence, not just artistic creation). If that's the case, it doesn't matter if someone follows Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity, or some ancient indigenous faith centered on the Moon and the Sun, or if they don't belong to any group at all. What matters for spiritual growth isn't the label, but whether the person is making a genuine, creative effort to develop their inner spirituality.

More often than not, religion—in the sense of people identifying strictly with various norms dictated by rigid dogma without any critical thinking, sometimes even defending dogmas or truths in Holy Scriptures blindly—acts as nothing more than another set of shackles or a cage for a true seeker. Such artificial constructs are just imposed imaginations or fantasies that consciousness eventually identifies with.

Maria Robinson2 said:If there aren't any flaws—then you're looking at the distinction between spirituality and true faith.

Because, well, they aren't exactly the same thing.

It’s a bit of an uncomfortable truth, I suppose.

God lives within us, and the spiritual search does too. Ultimately, people just define these terms based on their own personal perspectives and life experiences.

There’s no such thing as a "spiritual flaw." What we call flaws are really just human shortcomings—though, honestly, who gets to decide what a flaw even is? Sometimes what one person labels as a "vice" is actually just their own inability to accept someone else's behavior. It’s less about the person being broken and more about a lack of tolerance from those watching.

copperpanther27 said:But if you look at how nature actually works, neither one holds authority over the other... that hierarchy is just something humans cooked up in their own heads.

What they mean is that the material world essentially flows from the spiritual (the energy), yet they remain an inseparable, single unit. It's just easier for the human mind to view them as two separate things because we mostly experience one domain—and honestly, even our grasp on the physical realm is pretty limited—while the other remains a complete mystery to us.

mistygull16 said:I wouldn't go so far as to say spiritual stuff is the polar opposite of material stuff—I mean, maybe in some weird way it is, but honestly? I just see it as what’s happening on the inside versus everything else on the outside.

So, we're basically "building" our own consciousness (our focus) in here, while out there in the real world, we've gotta keep grinding. The body needs its cut, you know? Like paying your taxes to the IRS or giving back to God.

The version of this that actually makes sense to me is that story about the student who tracks down a guru and asks, "Okay, what now?" And the guru just tells him to keep doing exactly what he's been doing. The student is like, "Wait, then what's the point?" and the guru says, "The point is to be fully aware of everything you're doing from now on."

Or there's that whole Buddhist vibe where they say when you're sitting, just know you're sitting; when you're walking, just know you're walking. It's all about putting the weight on being conscious of ourselves and every little thing we do.

I'm on board with this too, and I don't want to clog up the thread. 🎉

Maria Parker77 said:depends on who you ask😁

☕ Yeah, coffee... 😁 good morning to you all, friends.

hiddenbear3 said:It honestly feels like you’re just trying to brainwash people with those beliefs of yours, much like how others try to manipulate everyone else with their own ideologies. It’s really just two tedious fanatics spinning in circles.

Come on now, let’s break this cycle for a moment. I would love to see some actual, concrete examples instead of just hearing these endless mantras—whether it's the constant chanting that there is no such thing as rivalry, or the opposing rhetoric claiming that everything is a competition. Let's move past the slogans and get into the real substance.
I would love to elaborate further on that point by providing some concrete examples to illustrate my perspective.

We both claim to be seekers of the truth. 🙂

🙂

Is there anyone else out there besides you and me? (Or anyone else at all?) 🤔

😁

David Vaughn75 said:Look, if you really dig into the definition, spirituality is basically just the antithesis of the material world—we're talking about stuff that doesn't play by the rules of cause and effect or that whole deterministic grind we're stuck in. All those pros and cons people obsess over? Those are just different sides of the same coin in this physical, material mess we live in.

The spiritual isn't the "opposite" of the material. You've got to look at it a bit more deeply than that.

God, in His fundamental state, has no rival, no antipode, no opposite, and there isn't some parallel existence out there to compare Him to.

If we say an ant and the entire cosmos share a certain alignment—in terms of what we call the will of the creator—well, even then, there is absolutely nothing in existence that compares to that will.

It's like comparing a single dot to a cat. 🙂

The whole idea of "pros and cons of spirituality" just doesn't exist. 🙂

Kevin Ruiz36 said:You either didn't understand my answer, or you're just refusing to accept it because you don't believe kundalini is a real phenomenon. I'm not slow, and I'm certainly not stupid enough to misinterpret my own experiences. I've had spiritual encounters that most people wouldn't touch in a thousand lifetimes.

The CDs are just digital MP3 files downloaded from the web. They come with instructions and warnings on who shouldn't use them. The second disc mentions kundalini as something that might manifest while listening. There aren't any physical items included; they're downloaded to a hard drive, not shipped to your house.

Does someone who believes in something actually *know* that it exists? And if they already know, why bother believing in it?

If they don't know, then why bother with belief at all? Belief alone doesn't move the needle toward actual discovery—if you don't know, you're just stuck in a loop where you can't confirm if something is real or not.

mellowdrifter9 said:I suppose names are given to us for a reason, much like mantras, prayers, or the Word itself. Everything seems to happen for a purpose. For the specific stage of the journey she is currently navigating, names are necessary, and they exist there for her sake. Once she reaches those higher states where energy is moved solely through thought—states where Reiki Masters no longer need to draw symbols or recite them because they have outgrown such things... then, perhaps, she won't need a name either. At that point, she will simply feel the energy, recognize it, and resonate with it on a much higher level than she does now.

Also, if you don't have any personal experiences of your own to share with us, I would kindly ask that you refrain from commenting unless someone specifically asks for your explanation.
Thank you for understanding.
Namaste.

Speaking from experience, I can tell you she’s at a stage where names and labels don't even matter anymore—and honestly, they shouldn't matter to you either. Those details are the least important part of the equation. What actually matters is the end result: getting everything back to its rightful place. It sounds simple, but it’s incredibly tough. That’s exactly why so many people get lost in their own heads; they spend all their time spinning through thoughts instead of actually living life as it truly is.

If you’re truly opening your consciousness to spiritual energy, you have to work on becoming receptive to actual help. Don't fall into the trap of spinning elaborate mental scenarios just to build a temporary sense of purpose. If you're just doing things to validate your own narrative, you aren't growing—you're just feeding the ego. Think of it this way: both "good" and "bad" actions serve as anchors for the conscious mind. It’s actually much harder to break free from those "good" deeds. When we start creating all this internal fanfare about how important our actions are—even though it's mostly just products of our imagination—we trick ourselves into thinking we're doing something monumental. It's just another way the ego keeps itself busy.

Just like astral travel, if you aren't steering those experiences toward spiritual growth, they’re basically meaningless. I've met plenty of people who get totally sucked into pure escapism, where their own mind just starts playing games with them because that's what it loves to do.

Real results are usually pretty modest. Most people aren't satisfied with that because they’re chasing something "exciting" or looking for an instant fix. It's like trying to run a marathon when you haven't even learned to walk yet; people tend to wander off the path early on, thinking they've hit something big, simply because they lack the right guidance to see what actually matters.

You don't just ask for leadership—you earn it. Claiming you’re "under the guidance of an Archangel" or "being led by a Saint" means absolutely nothing if your mindset is just, "I want this specific holy figure to take the wheel right now." Honestly, that kind of thinking just creates mental fog. I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but it doesn't work like that. It isn't about instant gratification. What actually matters is patience and the tangible results you see manifesting in your daily life. Real growth comes from strengthening your nervous system and finding true mental, emotional, and energetic balance. That's much more vital than just shouting, "I want this or that to lead me right this second."

Look, everyone can do things their own way if they want to. But let’s be honest: both life and the spiritual path are essentially imaginary. The only difference is that the spiritual path is just a slightly more "real" version of imagination compared to our everyday consciousness. I think obsessing over context instead of focusing on what actual, practical spirituality looks like is just a waste of time. If you really want to make progress, you have to view the experience of the spiritual path for what it truly is. Otherwise, you’re just like a kid coming home from school who gets completely distracted by the bright lights of a local carnival instead of just heading straight home.

Go ahead and keep the discussion going—I won’t jump in. My experience is really about how every opportunity in life unfolds as a direct result of spiritual work. Everything happens from the inside out. I tend to write about that across all sorts of topics, but I don't try to make it sound "grand" or flashy. It’s just everyday stuff. To some people, it might even seem boring or totally impossible.

Tyler Nelson said:I jumped into this whole journey just over a year ago. I’m still pretty much a rookie, but I’ve been moving through the stages fast enough to make my head spin.👍
During one meditation, I picked up the name of my guide—Gulfart. I tried digging into what that actually means, but I hit a bit of a dead end. If anyone out there knows the symbolism behind a name like that, I'm all ears...
The real game-changer for my awakening was this reconnection experience; it totally blew my mind and completely flipped my perspective on everything!

Honestly, you're better off just ignoring that kind of curiosity. It doesn't lead anywhere. That name popped up purely from your own mind. Names are human constructs; spiritual energies don't actually carry names. We just assign them labels to make them fit into limited shapes that make sense to us, or even shapes that scare us. It's all just mental gymnastics, regardless of whatever Sopstvo might be behind the scenes.

Kate James3 said:You're denying the antecedent. That's a logical fallacy. 😉

Then again, maybe thoughts are happening during sleep. It's just that there's no conscious awareness to pick them up.

You can't have "no consciousness" if there's nothing for that consciousness to actually process—you just lack the awareness (the specific thoughts that would give consciousness something to be aware of).

Even an animal's brain produces thoughts—so animals exist, both when they are conscious and when they aren't. 😁

Kate James3 said:I think I do. 🍿

But what about when you're fast asleep? Then you aren't? 🤔

Michael Gonzalez77 said:...

You’re really missing my point here. Instead of just getting defensive, 🤔 — we're basically talking past each other.

Science wasn't some invention by a handful of academics; it's a fundamental human drive. It’s baked into our DNA. What you’re describing is just a narrow scientific method used to probe the physical plane—a method built on imperfect senses, tools, instruments, and the inevitable fiction of the human imagination. This approach focuses more on exploitation than actual understanding. Why? Because pure knowledge and true comprehension don't turn a profit. That isn't inherently good or bad, but it's insufficient for what any human being on this planet actually wants: prosperity. True prosperity doesn't come from mere comfort, nor does it come from reading about things in a book or believing in something just because someone told you it exists.

If you insist that a purely materialistic scientific approach is the only way to advance civilization, then you’ll struggle to grasp Tesla’s insight or even Mexico's brilliant poem:

"If science spent just ten years studying non-physical phenomena, it would make more progress than it has in its entire century of existence."

STOP NURSING

Take it slow. Let go of the bottle.
That is the core of my argument.

From a zygote, nourished only by blood,
to an infant drinking milk,
to a child eating solid food,
to a seeker of wisdom,
to a hunter chasing the most intangible prey of all.

Imagine trying to have a conversation with a zygote.
You might say:
"The outside world is vast and complex.
There are wheat fields and mountain slopes,
and orchards in full bloom.
At night, millions of galaxies are visible, and in the sunlight,
you can see the beauty of friends dancing at a wedding.">

But if you ask the zygote why it remains cramped
in the dark, with eyes closed,
listen to the answer:

"There is no 'other world.'
I only know what I have experienced.
You must be imagining it."

silentviper19 said:Man, you're acting like you're headed for Mount Everest or Tibet or something! What are you even looking for down here on Earth? Just staring at these empty fantasies sold by science, progress, and technology? It's all just colorful illusions, really. None of it helps with the one big thing you're constantly banging on about—this famous "self-knowledge." That term is always so vague because it's purely subjective, anyway. Not to mention there's zero scientific proof that this "self-knowledge" even exists, let alone that anyone should be spending their life chasing it.

You're clearly missing my point entirely. But honestly, it doesn't matter anymore; we're just not going to see eye to eye.

I don't need to trek across the globe to become who I am. Before anyone can truly understand themselves, they need to achieve balance—specifically, eliminating negative thoughts and toxic emotions as a systematic habit. If you want to see the world and things as they actually are, you first have to master the things you actually control: your own thoughts and emotions. Otherwise, you're just a slave to daily dissatisfaction, fear, sadness, regret, and anger. It's a cycle of compulsive reactions. Mastering yourself is the fundamental starting point.

silentviper19 said:Man, the way you spin things is wild. It honestly makes me wonder how people who are clearly smart can wade through such shallow streams of ignorance and hypocrisy.

You're an atheist and a materialist just like me, yet somehow you claim to have some "spiritual energy" that I lack because I'm being principled while you aren't. Because, in my book, either all miracles and spiritual experiences are real, or none of them are.

And you say we pull our determinism from different sources?? That's just not right.
You're pulling from both, whereas I stick to just one. See, you don't believe in Santa Claus, and you definitely don't think Zeus sent spiritual energy to Milan via tarot cards, but I bet you still believe in the Resurrection.

🙂 "I am not" an atheist, a theist, or anything else you could possibly throw at me. Those kinds of labels and identities simply don't interest me.

On the flip side, your "atheism" is just a byproduct of the psychological cage you're living in—the very thing causing you daily internal conflict. That's what I'm talking about.

It doesn't matter how someone declares themselves. Identity is just the accumulation of what's inside a person and the weight they give to a self-constructed, false world of ideas. Once you start identifying with those ideas—even if you create a specific agenda through some ideology—you end up stuck in a stagnant life.

The whole idea of drawing "determinism" from different places is trivial because the core issue remains the same. Whether you call yourself an atheist or a theist, whether it's Jack or Mark—when you're dealing with an identity that contributes nothing to personal growth and can't even be understood without a genuine effort toward self-knowledge, it's a waste of energy. People cling to these things because they view any challenge to their label as a threat to their very being. Even if that isn't the intention, people need to set things straight. Unfortunately, most people's intellect just circles around what they "see" or what they've heard exists, even if they haven't actually experienced it. They try to perceive the world through the narrow lens of the intellect, but the intellect isn't the part of intelligence that truly perceives reality. It's just a tiny fraction of the total intelligence that most of humanity hasn't even touched yet. All of this is just noise.

Joseph Bailey41 said:I don't really get how exploring your own psyche can lead you to something that has nothing to do with who you are. To me, it feels a lot like psychological projection. But hey, if someone's delusions actually help them become a better person, who am I to argue?

That’s just how it looks to you because you’re clinging to an identity that isn't actually yours—instead of owning what belongs to you (your body and mind) and experiencing it in a way that is practical and possible.

If someone views themselves merely as a collection of things they’ve consumed—if they build their entire identity out of sensory impressions from the outside world and say, "that’s who I am"—then I don't see what kind of delusion we're even talking about. The trouble starts when those heavy identifications manifest as frustration and all the friction that comes with "normal life." No amount of willpower or faith is going to fix that. It’s like a driver who identifies so closely with his car that he feels like the vehicle is driving itself—usually by accident—and then, out of pure ignorance, blames everyone else for the "burden" of life.

There is this incredible intelligence at work that builds your physical body simply by you eating a banana. Instead of defining himself as a mere sequence of "banana-bread-cheese-milk," a person can choose to experience and utilize what they truly are (which definitely isn't a banana).

Joseph Bailey41 said:I get where you're coming from. But I have to disagree. For me, it started with the physical body, and then, well, the spirit followed. That doesn't make the latter any less significant, obviously. In fact, the spirit is the direct result of all those long, empty years of evolution, which is exactly why we should cherish it—just like we cherish this one single life we get. There you go: a little introduction to what I call atheist spirituality. 😉

When you talk about being limited by our senses and getting too wrapped up in them, it makes perfect sense why that's how "atheists" view the world. But true clarity comes from deep self-exploration, not just blind belief.