Posts by Daniel Chase13

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Jason Ortiz5 said:Oh, absolutely. Kids are just clueless. Who needs math in the real world anyway? They won't get why it matters regardless. As long as they can say three Hail Marys in a row, they'll be just fine for the rest of their lives.

That sounds more like you than me.

You know perfectly well I never said that, nor did I mean it. I was quite clear in my wording, and anyone actually paying attention would have caught that—it really just comes down to how you choose to see it.

Based on my conversations with teachers, what I was actually saying is that the current frantic pace—that rush to churn through math curriculum because of the way the state mandates these rigid plans—makes math far too difficult for a huge number of kids.

By burying them under an inappropriate amount of material for their age, we're actually preventing them from truly grasping math or finding it interesting and relevant.

Faith and math aren't at odds here; after all, they both stem from God the Creator. The laws of nature and mathematical principles, much like our spiritual and moral laws, were established by the same Legislator. That’s why religious studies and mathematics don't have to be in conflict.

In fact, some great religious educators make sure to remind students that when they study mathematical truths, biological facts, physics, or chemistry, they are essentially studying parts of God's creation. These teachers encourage students to excel in all their subjects as a way of honoring their Creator.
It’s just another way to see how religious education connects with everything else taught in school.

I remember reading about the most avid young reader in Washington, D.C., back in 2017—a boy who spent his time reading The Bible in comic form, Catholic books published by Salesian houses or the Vatican Council, and even Christian allegories like Narnia. He even sings in the church choir. And the kicker? He absolutely loves chemistry and biology.

jadetrucker43 said:Teachers... religion class? 😬

Could you please provide a source for that claim?

As a math teacher, I absolutely refuse to agree with these claims you're pulling out of thin air.

Anyway, separate from those posts, in an earlier (deleted) one, you mentioned that religion should have a place in public schools. My direct question to you is this: why? Why should religion—an elective subject centered on faith—be part of a public educational institution instead of being handled by a private religious institution meant for that purpose?

Look, it’s not guesswork. I’m talking to elementary school teachers and math professors who are my actual friends and people I trust. Plus, I have several family members working as teachers in our local school districts.

You don't have to agree with me. I know where I stand on this.

If you actually work in education—and if that's even the case here—please, try to carry yourself with a bit more grace and decorum. Not even for my sake, but for the sake of the dignity of the teaching profession itself.

Susan James said:If we're talking about grades 1 through 4, there is honestly zero point in cramming the schedule. For instance, some parents send their kids to religious studies classes, while other kids are still struggling just to master the alphabet or feeling pressured to catch up on reading during after-school programs. It doesn't make sense to force extra languages or advanced math onto students who don't have those specific interests, especially when they might have real academic struggles they could be working on while others are in religious studies. (I remember us discussing this a few years ago—how hard it is to find a speech therapist anywhere, yet some schools have therapists seeing kids during free periods or religious study hours). Not to mention, for some kids, learning French can be incredibly overwhelming if they are already struggling with English.
We also shouldn't forget that time was taken away from math, English, art, and music just to make room for religious studies and "early" foreign language tracks.

As for the older grades, I think by that age the gap in learning speeds is already quite wide. Interests vary so much that forcing robotics or a third language on a tiny group of 3 to 9 students just seems pointless to me.
What makes more sense is keeping an elective similar to religious studies just to ensure there's enough work to keep more teachers employed.

By the way, another big reason why people pick religious studies over ethics in high school is social pressure. If you want to be a godparent for a ceremony (which often happens when you're in high school and being asked by family), people tend to ask what classes you're taking. It doesn't always happen, but I know a guy who couldn't serve as a godparent simply because he chose the ethics track instead, regardless of his actual faith.
So, even if they finish their religious requirements in 8th grade, if they want to be available for those social roles later, they basically need religious studies listed on their transcript.😬

There’s way too much coercion involved in something that should be a deeply personal choice, like faith.
But hey, that's how it goes when they're trying to protect jobs.

I’ll say it again—based on my conversations with several different teachers—math might still have one period too many, but honestly, the actual number of hours isn't even the biggest issue here. The real headache is how packed the curriculum is; it's just way too much material for most kids to digest properly.

Then you have principals and parents unfairly blaming the teachers, claiming they aren't "reaching" the students. I mean, how are they supposed to succeed when they're being crushed under the weight of a syllabus designed this way?

A good chunk of what kids are expected to learn in math today really should be pushed back by at least a year. Instead of this frantic race to cover everything, we ought to focus on building a rock-solid foundation for those advanced topics later on. For instance, some of the stuff taught in fifth grade really belongs in sixth grade—we should trim the volume of topics and make sure they actually stick.

As for that small group of high achievers who need more, we can always provide extra challenge problems or supplemental advanced sessions to keep them engaged.

Sarah Hall53 said:Well, if you look at the entire Archdiocese of Chicago—or even the one over in Los Angeles—they’re basically all just part of that same "small fraction" of people getting confirmed. ☕

Well, yeah—it’s a small slice.

Those are just two out of the 18 dioceses in America (not counting the Chaplain Corps, of course).

2 : 16 ☕

In those two, they receive the sacrament of confirmation in high school, while the other 16 do it back in 8th grade.

Quincy:

mariana3 As you mentioned: I was chatting with a group of kids from an average elementary school class over in Washington, D.C. the other day, and I picked up something pretty interesting—or maybe just a bit sobering. It turns out about three-quarters of them are sitting through religious education classes simply because "that’s what their parents want," even though they aren't actually interested in it themselves. One kid even told me straight up that they "don't really believe in those things." It’s a candid little snapshot of where things stand with that generation. It’s funny how these students work—they’ll spend the whole period throwing out these "awkward," challenging questions during class, only to have the teacher shut them down or cut them off mid-sentence. But despite all that questioning, they’ve already mentally checked out. They’ve accepted that this is just another credit to chase—just another subject where they need to cram a bunch of facts into their heads, pass the test, and move on. It’s just a complete waste of time for them—honestly, I don't see the point.

From chatting with a few teachers I know, I’ve seen cases where kids actually look forward to their religion class—I’m being literal here. To use the exact phrase those teachers always use: they absolutely adore their instructors.

It feels like we’re back at it again—focusing entirely on one single mistake made by one specific religion teacher. It’s funny how that works. You see teachers and professors across every other subject making the exact same kinds of errors, yet somehow, this one instance gets singled out for scrutiny.

It also really comes down to how students actually approach the questions—I mean, there’s a massive difference between genuine curiosity and just being disruptive. If they’re constantly cutting people off or throwing out random, off-topic questions just to derail the lesson, then you can't really blame a religion teacher for setting some boundaries. It’s only natural that they’d want to maintain control over the classroom environment when things start getting disrespectful or completely lose focus.

You know, I hear this all the time from students—and honestly, even from their parents—that spending so much time grinding through advanced math is just a massive waste of energy. Their argument is always the same: they’ll never actually use these complex formulas or equations in their day-to-day lives once they graduate. It’s a common sentiment, and when you look at how much time is dedicated to it, I can see why they feel that way.

For some students, the bulk of the required reading list for American literature feels like nothing more than a tedious slog—honestly, just a massive waste of time.

For some students, certain sections in their biology or history textbooks feel like absolute nonsense—just a total waste of time spent memorizing fabricated stories that don't seem to have any real-world application.

Honestly, I feel like for certain students, memorizing all those granular details about different countries and their economic structures—stuff you'd typically find in a geography textbook—is just a complete waste of time. It feels pretty unnecessary to most of them.

For some students, memorizing every single historical date feels like a complete waste of energy—honestly, it can feel pretty pointless when you're sitting there staring at a textbook.

For some students...

I don't think anyone would actually support cutting entire subjects from our school curriculum just because of a single "for certain students" argument. Honestly, that logic shouldn't apply to any subject we teach—it’s just not how a solid education system should work.

Jason Ortiz5 said:Does anyone know if there's a way to check the average final grades by high school class for both religion and ethics courses? 😬

Even asking that feels kind of ridiculous, since teachers are allowed to teach both anyway. It's enough to make your head spin.

Exactly.
Based on their five-year degree programs, these teachers are fully qualified to handle the Ethics elective.
It’s a positive move—and honestly, from a school administration standpoint, it makes a lot of practical sense too.

Sarah Hall53 said:The thing is, you guys are forgetting that in certain parts of the US, prom dates have been shifted to different semesters, and attending religious studies is a prerequisite for graduation. 😍
That means all those excuses about "what will the neighbors think" or "I need to graduate for my grandma" basically stop people from picking Ethics like they originally planned.
And honestly, someone choosing religious studies just because they want to collect all the Pokémon is a whole different issue entirely.

Only a small fraction of students receive Confirmation during high school—for the most part, it happens in the 8th grade. So, even with the argument that Confirmation happens later, the percentage of kids choosing religious studies over an Ethics course would still be significantly above 60%. Besides, when it comes to grades, students find it just as easy to pull an A in Ethics as they do in religious studies. It’s essentially the same deal.

The reality is quite simple: when given the choice between an elective in Ethics or religious studies, the vast majority of students consistently opt for the latter.
That’s just how it is.

Joseph Sanchez10 said:That would basically just be a living nightmare 😁

😁

I don't think so—mostly because we already have plenty of alternatives available in high schools. In fact, about 82% of students in American high schools choose religious studies as their elective, while only 18% opt for an Ethics course instead.

So, if you look at what's actually happening on the ground, there isn't really any fear surrounding religious education in our schools. Honestly, I’m all for introducing more diverse elective options.

Joseph Sanchez10 said:I honestly wonder how many kids would actually show up for religion class if it was just another elective offered during the afternoon shift instead of the morning one.
Or, you know, if getting access to sacraments wasn't tied directly to whether they sat through those classes.
I can't tell you how many times I've heard parents say, "Ugh, let them just power through this year since they need their First Communion... once that's out of the way, we're done."

The reality is that almost every student who attends religious education in elementary school through their First Communion (around 3rd grade) tends to stick with it year after year.
In fact, the number of students dropping out of these programs after 3rd grade is incredibly small—nearly everyone who starts in 1st grade continues all the way through 8th grade without missing a beat.
Most parents who choose this elective for their children aren't actually struggling with the curriculum or the content; they genuinely want their kids to participate in these school-based religious classes consistently from 1st through 8th grade.

Jason Ortiz5 said:Like, imagine if they organized some really solid alternatives instead—you know, maybe a foreign language course, advanced math, or something actually useful.

It would be such a win if someone finally stepped up and organized a real alternative for students whose parents prefer they skip the elective religious studies classes.
Now, full disclosure: I’m someone who wholeheartedly supports our current model of offering faith-based electives in public schools—I really do—but honestly, I think providing a meaningful alternative is a fantastic idea.

Joseph Sanchez10 said:The SEC said they’ll be setting up supervised spaces within the school for kids who don't take religion classes, just like how things were handled before the pandemic.

I can't quite recall when, but I definitely saw this in an article last week—some statement from the Secretary regarding how schools are supposed to handle students skipping religion class.

Honestly, I couldn't help but laugh because my kid, who's starting 4th grade now, has spent the last three years basically hanging out in hallways or the library. It's fine, I guess; he's got friends so he's okay, and some of the other kids even tell him, "Man, you're lucky you don't have to go to religion class."

On the flip side, I’ve seen plenty of cases where most of the students are actually counting down the days until their next religious studies period.

I don't have any issue with how religious education instructors are hired in our public schools. For the vast majority of cases, everything is handled by the book.

If certain administrators or teachers act inappropriately toward specific students, those are isolated mistakes—the kind of lapses you see from teachers or professors in any subject matter. We all know that happens sometimes.
No sane person would suggest stripping all subjects from the curriculum just because an occasional teacher in any discipline might mishandle a situation with a student.

As for the actual content of the Catholic elective programs, I think they're excellent. The topics are well-chosen and logically structured. Beyond that, though, the quality really comes down to the individual instructor.
Personally, I’m glad that the vast majority of kids in our school system have access to this material if their parents want them to, or if they choose to take it themselves once they hit high school.

In a country like America, where out of roughly 330 million citizens, nearly 240 million identify as Christian (with about 220 million being Catholic plus other denominations), it feels perfectly natural that school events in predominantly Christian communities include certain religious elements. I’m all for it.

I’m confident that, for the most part, things will continue to work out fine for the students who don't enroll in the religious elective. Of course, we all realize it won't always be possible to schedule that class during the first or last period of the day. It's common sense, and there's really no need to make a fuss about it. Everything will turn out okay.

Kids end up picking up nonsense from all sorts of people—not just certain teachers or professors, but even some religious studies instructors too.

Unfortunately, that’s just one of those unavoidable realities when you're dealing with human beings.

No single subject should be stripped from the curriculum just because some educators—regardless of what they teach—let out some foolish comments in front of their students. That includes religious education, even if it's just an elective.

Richard Fowler13 said:Well put—concise and straight to the point.

In reality, that is precisely what they are supposed to be teaching, though unfortunately, there is always going to be a Sunday school teacher who fails at their job, much like there are teachers in any other subject; the problem is that we rarely hear about the ones doing an excellent job, whether it's a religious instructor, a high school teacher, or even a principal...

Spot on.

Most religious education instructors focus on teaching kids how to respect people from all walks of life and different belief systems.

Having this kind of elective religious studies program in our American schools is a great model, and there's really no reason to change it. It definitely has its place in our education system.

Religious education belongs in American schools.
I honestly believe that offering religion as an elective subject is a perfectly fine approach—there’s really no need to change how it works.

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The latest from Dusparin regarding the renunciation of sin https://www.facebook.com/duspara.elv...17389622490218

New video from Dusparin

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