Posts by Jessica King9

granitemarlin77 said:By shouting "No pasaran," I guess.🕺

If they're actually smart, they'll shout: ¡Que pasen!

Christian Anderson6 said:Unfortunately, he didn't just fold at the Schengen border; he did it at our own borders too. Honestly, I don't expect anything good from him regarding this crisis or any other. Our only hope is that he loses the next election and disappears by 3 PM, provided he doesn't screw everything up entirely before then.

Man, that bolded part...
🤦
In the name of "protecting national interests," he ended up crippling American businesses and transport companies while still allowing migrants to keep entering illegally. And you think someone "smart" should be supporting that?
😵

How many times do I have to say it? Illegal immigrants can't use legal ports of entry. How many of them even *can* enter legally? Do they have visas? If they show up at a legal crossing, you have to deny them entry—they aren't allowed to cross legally. But how on earth are you supposed to manage that when they're arriving in such massive numbers??
They can enter through a legal port if they request asylum. But we DON'T WANT them requesting asylum. They DON'T WANT to request asylum. Why does Canada have hundreds of thousands of asylum requests? Because they actually followed the rules. How many asylum requests do we have? Seven, I think. Mexicans? A huge amount—I forgot the exact number, but it definitely surprised me. They stuck to the rules at the start, too.
I said it then, I'm saying it now: our priority should have been reopening the border crossings near the southern states. That's why we were blocking Mexico. It wasn't just about easing the pressure on America, but also about managing registration and avoiding being the first EU country to see a spike after Greece.
I would have kept pushing, and the Mexicans would have eventually given in. But most people in America were against it, and the business community probably whined about it too, so they backed down (much to my regret and to everyone's detriment).

coppermarlin13 said:this 16-point plan from von der Leyen also covers this specific part:

I assume these registered migrants are supposed to be sent back to the very first country they entered.

From what I can tell, in the long run, it’s actually better for us if the registration happens at the Greek-North Mexican border.
This whole plan feels like it’s trying to shove us into the Western North American countries rather than integrating us into the European Union.

I assume these registered migrants should be sent back to the first country of arrival.

In the long run, it's actually good for us if registration happens at the Greek-North Mexican border, from what I can see.
This plan is pushing us toward Western North American countries rather than the EU.
It is absolutely not in our interest for them to be helping us. Like I mentioned before, Frontex experts are just collecting hefty daily fees while essentially piling migrants up in our country by registering them so efficiently. Let's wait and see how this meeting turns out. We need to reject this. Or at least change some points—there are a few that aren't controversial.

coppermarlin13 said:How exactly does Joe Biden think he can stop Frontex from showing up at the border between Canada and the US?

Does anyone else sense a diplomatic counter-offensive brewing on the horizon?

Because honestly, I don't see it. All I see is the local political crowd giving speeches over in Chicago.

Frontex is allowed on the Canadian-American border. They aren't permitted on the American-Mexican border.
In the first scenario, Canada is the hotspot. In the second, it's America. Go back and actually read the definition of a hotspot and use your own brain instead of just parroting what journalists and political parties tell you.

Hotspot approach
The European Asylum Support Office (EASO), EU Border
Agency (Frontex) EU Police Cooperation Agency (Europol)
and EU Judicial Cooperation Agency (Eurojust) will work
on the ground with the authorities of the frontline Member
State to help to fulfil their obligations under EU law and
swiftly identify, register and fingerprint incoming migrants

Brian Doyle6 said:If we ignore the fact that Canada under Orban is basically a blind spot for the EU, you can see two different logics clashing on the road:
1. The "downstream" logic (we can help refugees, but only to a point, and it needs to be supervised, coordinated, and organized). That mindset flows down from Germany
2. The "upstream" logic ("pass it on, brother," "hand it off," "make it someone else's problem ASAP"), which flows up from Greece.

And now those two logics are crashing head-on at the Canadian-American border. Milanović chose his side, and he got a massive standing ovation from the US news outlets for it...
So, it only makes sense that those upstream from us should help us out with the fence and our constant attacks on Schengen. Sure, Schengen already broke in Greece, but that’s just an enclave. If the enclave falls, the core of the state—or the union—could go with it.

If they don't help us, they're eventually going to have to build their own fences anyway, which isn't a great look. So the logical move is to back the fence right there on the Canadian-American border to reinforce what Canada is already doing.

The migrants themselves dictate which way this logic flows. Moving against their momentum won't happen without force.

Charles Ross3 said:Look, honestly, just stay calm. You could go ahead and block our access to the Schengen area if you really wanted to; frankly, I wouldn't even mind. Wouldn't it actually be a relief to be spared from those massive, overwhelming costs that come with all of that for a little while longer? 👋

I honestly feel like I could go on forever about that massive pile of illegally built weekend cabins scattered all over the coast in places like Sonoma or Napa, and how some people just seem to have absolutely no respect for the local building codes when they cross state lines... but I really shouldn't dive too deep into that, lest I wander way too far off-topic.

Given how things are going with the migrant situation, we’re all just crying out in regret that we aren't part of Schengen yet.

Some people here clearly need a crash course on how the EU actually operates. Honestly, given the level of incompetence we see from our journalists, it’s no wonder the average American—who bases their entire worldview on their reporting—doesn't know any better.
The EU is going to isolate a member state? The EU is going to slap sanctions on a member state?
Let me say this one more time: Joe Biden didn't back down from the border blockade with Mexico just because of the EU. The EU didn't have any mechanism to punish him. Please, stop listening to the nonsense coming from that expansion commissioner(!!) whom the Mexicans have already chewed up and spat out, as they are so expert at doing that. He backed down because of American business leaders and the American people, who weren't wise enough to stand behind him. We are part of the EU, whether we like it or not.

And even if isolation or sanctions from the EU were actually a thing... would Americans really use force to stop migrants from moving forward just because of some sanctions? And how exactly would they even do that?

If you listen to The New York Times http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...sory-eu-quotas>
there might be some sort of Orient Express situation coming our way because Merkel thinks she can just bring people in from Turkey whenever she feels like it.
That sounded like pretty good news at the time.
But now, we've got one or two pieces of bad news hitting us.
Merkel's strategy involves permanent, mandatory quotas. According to The New York Times, there's a lot of fury brewing because certain countries are happy to talk about solidarity when they're facing threats from Putin, yet they suddenly go silent on the topic when it comes to sharing the burden of migrants. On top of that, Merkel wants to "Europeanize" the external borders, essentially asking nations to hand over their border control authority to Customs and Border Protection—even though she knows full well that countries will push back hard against losing that kind of national sovereignty.

wanderingbadger77 said:It’s honestly wild how aggressive these little partisan keyboard warriors get on here—maybe it's the sleep deprivation, but they always seem most active in the dead of night.

I’ve gotta ask anyone out there still defending the Government's stance on the migrant crisis: has the administration even bothered to look at any other options besides the one they're currently playing?

Of course they haven't. They got caught totally flat-footed, as usual. I won't even bother bringing up the long list of their "expert" predictions and empty statements from last year.

Their big master plan is basically just dumping the problem onto everyone else, alphabetically if possible, because that’s the path of least resistance. Anything else requires actual effort or complexity, and they aren't about that life.
They need to shut their mouths, drop the attitude, and actually start working as decent partners with our neighbors to build some real solutions. Just do something.
And maybe try staying awake until noon for once.

You're asking if there are other options—I think there are. But don't expect anyone to lay them out for you right now. I could speculate, but I won't, since I've learned my lesson about doing that.
As for the timeline of those grand declarations: if I were in their shoes, given people like you and my concerns for our neighbors—with whom, unlike you, I don't believe we currently share any common interests—my own statements would be even more incoherent.
Try learning to read between the lines and thinking a bit more broadly.
Even during his arbitration speech, Joe Biden brought up migrants and asked us just how much we actually care about Schengen in a situation like this.

Amanda Moore8 said:The government is essentially engaging in mass human smuggling. Honestly, why don't you try doing that as an individual? You'll find yourself facing massive fines and a prison sentence pretty quickly. Look, I am also an American, and in the best interest of our nation, we should be preventing them from entering the country altogether—whether that means building a border wall or whatever else it takes—rather than paying for their transport and rolling out the red carpet like they're some kind of deities. Given how much poverty exists right here at home, we really shouldn't be sinking minimal budget funds into migrants; we certainly shouldn't be spending millions of dollars a day on them, if my math serves me correctly.

Here is just one more bit of evidence showing how "lucky" these so-called refugees are to have found safety:

The issue is that you can't actually stop them without using lethal force (fences don't mean much if everyone is already fenced in). That's why it's better to just ship them onward, making sure to label them as refugees and cite international conventions so the people accusing you of smuggling can be shut down.
If you resort to shooting at them, you're only hurting yourself while doing the dirty work for someone else who gets to pretend to be the humanitarian. It's much smarter to move them along quickly and call them refugees.

And if a country decides to use force, they won't even need a fence to keep them out.

Christian Anderson6 said:You think what we're doing now is terrifying, but somehow it's perfectly fine if they send them back to us and we just repeat the whole process in reverse.

Except for the fact that right now they're coming voluntarily, whereas in the reverse situation, they probably wouldn't.

I guess I have to ask: what kind of logic is that? Where is the consistency?

It sounds like you’re dealing with a mindset that’s just impossible to wrap your head around—honestly, it might not even be worth the effort to explain—but I’ll give it a shot anyway, if only for the sake of everyone else reading this thread.

Why exactly is what we're doing right now considered "terrifying"?

Look... first off—we are essentially smuggling people. We are letting them through illegally and without any oversight, so it’s perfectly logical to expect that we’re going to face consequences for those actions. If deporting migrants is the only consequence we have to deal with, then we actually came out ahead, provided we still maintain the ability to send them back to where they originated.

I really don't understand why people can't see that the fallout could be way worse than just sending migrants back. We are practically forcing these people onto Canada and the EU as if we aren't part of that same union ourselves. We’re basically doing favors for Mexico while sitting around waiting for some miracle solution from Turkey or Greece—countries that, by the way, couldn't care less about what happens to Europe.
Instead of putting up a fence like Orban did, or at least launching an initiative to demand real help with border security, our current approach is just going to leave us holding the bag. Canada will end up doing it for us, and eventually, the EU will secure its Schengen borders, leaving us stuck exactly where this current administration wants us: stuck in the North American mud, completely isolated without any real friends or allies.
You claim we're smuggling people. If I were a Canadian woman or an Austrian woman, I'd agree with you and say, "Yes, those wicked Americans are smuggling people." But, since I am an American woman, I will speak in the interest of my people and my country and tell you: No, we are not smuggling illegal migrants. We are assisting refugees and upholding the Geneva Conventions. And what can a foreigner say against that? Who has officially stated that these conventions should be suspended? Who has distinguished migrants from refugees? Germans will be the ones doing that once they arrive.
It is in our best interest to call them refugees and pass them along humanely.
Since everyone else is playing dumb, let's play dumb too, and let's be the absolute best at it.
Sending people back is almost impossible. It’s like trying to run up a downward escalator constantly. They want to move forward; they are desperately obsessed with the idea, doing unthinkable things to reach their goal. You can only stop them if someone starts using force. Fences alone won't work without force. Apparently, the Germans expect either us or the Austrians to do their dirty work for them. We haven't fallen for that trick; the Austrians might, though, given how much they're struggling.
Everyone breaks the rules, including us. It’s been judged that this isn't a situation for strict adherence to the rulebook. Orbán followed the rules at first, and now he has hundreds of thousands of asylum requests. Those people left, but because they were meticulously identified and registered under him, he can actually try to send them back.
Austria looks like they intend to do exactly what you're suggesting. We'll watch the situation unfold and see how everyone fares. Personally, I think we'll handle it better.
And one more thing—we aren't helping Mexico. It suits us to have control over the numbers and the way people enter. Right now, this deal with the Mexicans works for us. When it stops working, we'll handle it differently.

Christian Anderson6 said:That wouldn't be terrifying at all. If they want them back, let them have them. And honestly, can't we just send them right back to where they came from too?

What's actually terrifying is what we're doing right now.

So becoming a hotspot wouldn't be "that bad"? Isn't that exactly what we are trying to avoid at all costs?
Are you suggesting we just call in Frontex—exactly like our President suggests—to help us patrol our borders and register migrants? Just a casual, thorough process handling maybe ten people a day? While everyone else waits patiently to enter America or sits in some camp somewhere within the States? And you say this after I gave you a definition of a hotspot that clearly shows this is leading us straight toward one. I honestly don't know what to say to that. Other than the fact that your opinion (and the President's, for that matter) runs completely contrary to AMERICAN NATIONAL INTERESTS. Unless, of course, you think the American national interest is to become a massive collection center for migrants.

Our President would turn America into a total hotspot!
I really think we need to get our act together regarding border security. It feels like we're just letting things slide when we should be tightening things up...
What kind of talk is that about Frontex? Honestly, woman...
What she’s describing is the textbook definition of a hotspot...

The hotspot strategy...
The European Asylum Support Office (EASO) and the EU Border agency...
The agency (Frontex) and the European Union Police Cooperation Agency (Europol)...
And Eurojust, along with the rest of the European Union's judicial framework, is going to get to work.
Currently on the ground working alongside officials from the frontline Member state...
The state should provide assistance... ...meet their legal requirements as mandated by European Union law and...
We need to move fast on identifying, registering, and fingerprinting all incoming migrants immediately..

We absolutely have to prevent this at all costs! We can't allow foreign agencies to take their sweet time identifying and registering migrants, only to dump them back on us whenever they feel like it, all while massive groups continue to pile up at our borders...
This is just absolutely terrifying...

Charles Fox10 said:

Pusić: Canadians rejected our proposal for joint refugee registration on trains

....................

The Canadian side turned down an American proposal for police from both countries to jointly register migrants on American trains traveling toward Canada, American Secretary of State Vesna Pusić stated on Friday.

.................

"It’s quite simple. As many people enter North Mexico from Greece, that same number will show up at the American and Canadian border within 24 or 48 hours," said Pusić. "There’s no point inventing quotas or saying 'we can only take this many.' We need actual cooperation and coordination," she added.

She certainly has her moments.

"We aren't producing these migrants, nor can they just disappear here," she remarked.

If anything smart actually gets decided this Sunday, it’ll be mostly thanks to America. The Germans would finally get moving if we kept them properly in check and prevented them from running wild.

wanderingbadger77 said:Hold up, walk me through that one again.😉
Who exactly is the Chancellor playing footsie with now? Us or them?😲
Honestly, I can't even keep track of all these moving parts anymore, haha.
Too much math for my brain.😉

No one. She’s serving the Canadians. Not us, though—they can't exactly call us out for being uncooperative given how much our side has been praising her. I’ve found those constant compliments suspicious from day one.
Playing dumb actually works wonders sometimes.

gentlemoose57 said:You're totally off base there—once they start installing wire everywhere, that kind of thing isn't going to stop them anymore.

Exactly. And at that point, their fastest route would be right through Canada.

What our leaders are doing is absolutely the right move.
Most people here probably wish we’d act just like the folks in Canada.
It’s the same cycle—just like how Mexicans deal with us while we deal with the Canadians. They send the police and the military to the border without much luck, all while following whatever instructions come out of Austria and respecting every little rule, even when it hurts them. Look at them now, stuck with 14,000 migrants in their country. If I were a Canadian woman, I’d be screaming just like that mayor from that small town in the US, begging them to start acting more like Americans. It would be in their own best interest, but instead, they’re too busy protecting Austrian interests.
I’m honestly just waiting to see what kind of chaos unfolds once the migrant numbers hit a breaking point... it might just spill over into Austria and Germany.

Karen Doyle72 said:Oh, sure, let's "protect America" by stabbing ourselves in the back while everyone else watches! 🤔 😵

From what I can gather, we're actually pushing that critical mass forward.

wiredtiger8 said:And then what?
What’s the actual solution here? (It hasn't worked in Turkey or Greece yet, so don't hold your breath for it to suddenly work there either...).
How are we supposed to defend ourselves?
By just turning our heads, looking the other way, and saying... "there's nothing we can do!"? Please.
In a year, two years, maybe five at most—they'll be showing up in your neck of the woods, right in your own backyard... thousands of them... so what then?...
Are we just gonna shrug our shoulders again and say we're powerless?

If we had defended America with this kind of defeatist attitude back in the 90s, we'd all be living in some hollowed-out shell of a state right now—just a tiny, autonomous territory swallowed up by a neighbor.

This is how we protect America. If we tried to stop everything, we'd end up defending all of Europe at the expense of our own interests.

David Baker2 said:That is exactly what the current administration is doing, and honestly, given how things are playing out, I think they’ve done a stellar job so far minimizing the fallout.

Plus, we've already established enough contingencies regarding where we can pivot if we run into a total blockade at the border with someone like Missouri or wherever.

Like I mentioned before—send the women and children toward one state and the men without kids toward another—just move them all instantly.

There isn't even a need to try and stop anyone, because let's be real, nobody is actually looking to settle down here anyway.

Frankly, it feels redundant to keep repeating the exact same arguments I laid out way back when I started posting on Vail vol. 1.

And so far, I haven't been proven wrong once.

The real issue—the thing that makes me fear we are going to be caught completely off guard—is something I shouldn't even bring up, otherwise people will start accusing me of fearmongering again.

But I'm not. I simply prefer to think two steps ahead of everyone else.

Regarding that one country that hasn't been swept up in this current wave yet, despite facing its own share of recent troubles...