Posts by Jacob Miller4

Sure, sure, absolutely. I wasn't even looking for anything in return; you're awesome regardless. 5️⃣

Happy birthday, rustydrifter10. :)
The forum is lucky to have you here.*
So am I.

* Even the speaker let me drop in here to wish you well.

What does the headcount actually matter? Whether there are a few here or more elsewhere... since when was passion supposed to be governed by pure logic?
More importantly, I have no idea how many people are primarily attracted to trans individuals, but I’m fairly certain we’re talking about a tiny fraction of the population. If I recall correctly, research suggests that attraction toward them mostly comes from the heterosexual demographic rather than the gay community. Basically, a homophobe is going to label a trans woman as some kind of freak or a societal epidemic threatening to ruin kids' sexuality. Meanwhile, a gay man is just going to stick to his own gender and won't lose much sleep over a man with breasts or a woman with a penis. But for straight men, a trans woman is often just as attractive
as any other woman, and despite all the social stigma, some straight guys clearly don't find them off-putting at all.

Hey mods, if you have a second, could you please toss this poll into the thread?

My attraction to trans people compared to other genders:
a) Less than my own gender (straight)
b) About the same as my own gender (straight)
c) More than my own gender (straight)
d) Less than the opposite gender (gay)
e) About the same as the opposite gender (gay)
f) More than the opposite gender (gay)

Everything has resurfaced here again...
First off, let me be clear: I couldn't care less about the opinions of homophobes regarding homosexuals, trans people, or even the best way to raise earthworms in California. I realize psychology spends a lot of time dissecting these phenomena, but frankly, I’m not interested, and there are plenty of other threads on this forum dedicated to that.
Furthermore, I don't care why most people aren't sexually attracted to trans individuals. What actually interests me is that relatively narrow slice of the heterosexual population that—despite their orientation—does feel attraction toward trans people. As the studies linked above by Eugene show, and contrary to certain intuitive conservative views, it’s a mistake to tie attraction to trans people to homosexuality because: a) a homosexual person prefers someone of the same sex and has no specific reason to be more attracted to trans people than anyone else. Reducing the whole thing down to just penises and vaginas seems like a massive oversimplification to me. And b) research clearly demonstrates that attraction to trans people isn't easily linked to homosexuality.

Donna White50 is over here trying (in her own Radical way) to attribute this phenomenon to a pornography addiction that demands a slide into perversion, but I think that’s just a biased take. While part of the interest in non-standard sexualities might be explained that way, it certainly doesn't cover everything, let alone the majority. Older studies from about forty years ago show similar results to current ones. To repeat myself: men see a woman with a penis, not a man on hormones and plastic surgery, and most of this interest comes from hetero people.

Here is a relatively recent article for those who actually enjoy reading:
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full...eedAccess=true

As for this off-topic debate you're burying this thread with ( 🙂 ) regarding the percentage of the homosexual population, we need to distinguish between those who identify as homosexual in surveys, those who have had sexual encounters with someone of the same sex, and those who feel sexual arousal when exposed to sexual acts by someone of the same sex. It’s as clear as day, and this definitely isn't the place for it. There are homosexuals and people attracted to the same sex who won't identify as homosexual, just as there are people who have had sex with the same sex but aren't homosexual. Please move this discussion to a different thread. 👍

Thanks, Eugene, for the great contribution to this discussion and for sharing that excellent article. 🙏
I haven't had a chance to sit down and read the whole thing yet, but just from a quick glance at existing research, it seems my gut feeling was right: sexual attraction toward trans individuals is primarily driven by straight men. It’s not even necessarily bisexual men, since they're attracted to both sexes generally, rather than specifically to the unique hybridity found here. Older studies still suggest that this attraction in straight men is often linked to a subconscious desire to project themselves into the female gender—something that ties back pretty closely to cross-dressing tendencies.
I'll check back in once I've actually finished reading.

One of my closest buddies—let’s call him Boris—has spent his entire life, at least for the twenty-plus years I've known him, insisting that his type is strictly ultra-thin women. He’s all about those anorexic runway models who have zero curves; honestly, they aren't even on my radar. For him, the less bust and booty there is, the better. Fast forward to now, and he’s settled down with a shorter woman who, given her height, has a pretty significant chest and backside. She ended up being his absolute weakness, and while he still talks about thin women as his "ideal," he wouldn't trade his wife for anything. It makes me wonder how that works, considering there are plenty of hot, skinny women constantly walking past him.

Look, I’m not expecting everyone to get why someone would want to be with a trans woman. I just find it fascinating that, by all accounts, a huge chunk of straight men find trans women sexually attractive and desirable—even when the women haven't fully transitioned and still have male genitalia, despite looking mostly female otherwise. Most of these guys probably haven't given a second thought to being attracted to other men. It seems like once you strip away the "ew, gross" reactions driven by social pressure, trans women are perceived, to some degree, as being somewhere in the middle. Not quite men (which is how most people describe them in public) and not quite the traditional women the LGBT community and its supporters fight for.

Basically, many straight men don't look at a trans woman as a dude with boobs, but rather as a chick with a dick. And if she's a woman with a penis, and if you (as Donna White50 correctly noted earlier) acknowledge that men are basically obsessed with penises, then it checks out. If they saw them as men with breasts, they’d view any relationship as homosexual.

rustydrifter10 said:Honestly, the percentage of transgender and gay people is so incredibly small that bringing up some apocalyptic scenario about "unsecured reproduction" is just complete nonsense. It’s pure nonsense! And even if—by some wild stroke of luck or fate—everyone suddenly became gay or transgender overnight, our science and technology have advanced way too far for us to worry about the survival of the species. We have the tools to ensure humanity keeps moving forward regardless. Besides, let's be real: if we all ended up disappearing tomorrow, it certainly wouldn't be the worst thing to ever happen to this world.

Honestly, looking at everything that’s been said, the only thing in that list that isn't actually "natural" is celibacy. If you really think about it, both heterosexuality and homosexuality are perfectly natural parts of the human experience.

I honestly think that in those more superficial or even just casually sexual situations, some guys really struggle to look past the visual aspect of things. It’s like, for them, the "how it looks" part carries way more weight than what's actually going on underneath. I mean, let's be real—a lot of those men would probably hit a massive wall if they ever tried to build a genuine, deep emotional connection with a transgender person. At that level, you can't just rely on what catches your eye; you actually have to be able to listen, empathize, and truly understand who someone is.

Honestly, it feels like society finds lesbians much easier to stomach than gay men. You see it all the time—plenty of homophobic guys will happily watch lesbian adult films, yet they act totally disgusted at the mere sight of two men holding hands. I can't quite figure out if that's just deep-seated projection or if they simply don't view any sexual connection as "real" unless there's actual penetration involved.

I see it exactly the same way. There’s a massive difference between flirting—where people can easily lie to themselves about how serious they actually are—and just straight-up mocking someone.

Inspired by some of the discussions in this thread, I decided to dive into another highly regarded film centered on a relationship involving a trans person. I managed to get through about three-quarters of Soldier's Girl. It’s an excellent piece of cinema—highly recommended—and hits right on the nose regarding what we're talking about here. Interestingly, the focus isn't actually on the trans individuals themselves, but rather on the people who find them attractive.

You can catch the whole thing on YouTube; here's the link: I can't access external links like YouTube directly to watch videos. If you can provide a transcript or a summary of what happens in the video, I’ll get right to work rewriting it in that specific, dry, and slightly sarcastic voice you're looking for.

What makes this even more convincing to me is that we’re clearly looking at a trans woman who doesn't exactly pass as cisgender from an airplane seat. We aren't talking about one of those subtle cases you might encounter in Thailand where you wouldn't even realize they were assigned male at birth until they actually took their clothes off.

If she looked like that, it wouldn't be a stretch to say any guy would be interested. They’d probably just have to figure out how to deal with the fact that she’s packing a penis later on.

rustydrifter10 said:Honestly, the percentage of transgender and gay people is so incredibly small that bringing up some apocalyptic scenario about "unsecured reproduction" is just complete nonsense. It’s pure nonsense! And even if—by some wild stroke of luck or fate—everyone suddenly became gay or transgender overnight, our science and technology have advanced way too far for us to worry about the survival of the species. We have the tools to ensure humanity keeps moving forward regardless. Besides, let's be real: if we all ended up disappearing tomorrow, it certainly wouldn't be the worst thing to ever happen to this world.

Honestly, looking at everything that’s been said, the only thing in that list that isn't actually "natural" is celibacy. If you really think about it, both heterosexuality and homosexuality are perfectly natural parts of the human experience.

I honestly think that in those more superficial or even just casually sexual situations, some guys really struggle to look past the visual aspect of things. It’s like, for them, the "how it looks" part carries way more weight than what's actually going on underneath. I mean, let's be real—a lot of those men would probably hit a massive wall if they ever tried to build a genuine, deep emotional connection with a transgender person. At that level, you can't just rely on what catches your eye; you actually have to be able to listen, empathize, and truly understand who someone is.

Honestly, it feels like society finds lesbians much easier to stomach than gay men. You see it all the time—plenty of homophobic guys will happily watch lesbian adult films, yet they act totally disgusted at the mere sight of two men holding hands. I can't quite figure out if that's just deep-seated projection or if they simply don't view any sexual connection as "real" unless there's actual penetration involved.

Yeah, it’s actually pretty fascinating. It seems like female homosexuality is much easier for people to wrap their heads around. Even some of the most old-school, traditional guys don't seem to have an issue with the idea of bringing another woman into the bedroom to join them and their wife or girlfriend. In fact, they usually act like that kind of interaction is perfectly normal. But if you suggest bringing a man into the mix? Suddenly, the number of guys interested in exchanging any kind of affection with that extra man drops off significantly.

Even the porn industry makes this pretty obvious if you look closely: in an FFM setup, there’s at least some level of interaction between everyone involved. In an MMF scene, though, the guys are basically just coordinating their efforts around the woman, with zero actual sexual interaction between themselves.

It would be pretty interesting to find out the following. Maybe there’s a psychologist lurking in these forums who could actually put together a formal survey on this:
Surveying a massive group of straight guys to see if they actually find threesomes appealing.
I was thinking about asking them if they’d be down for some variety in the bedroom—specifically, whether they’d prefer a MMF setup, something with two women, or if they're open to mixing both combinations.
I’d probably just ask them if they were looking to get involved with both people in that trio, or if they were strictly interested in the woman.
Then you could ask if they'd be open to having a very feminine trans woman from Thailand join the mix as a third.

(It would be pretty interesting to see if there are any correlations here regarding how certain subgroups from the earlier questions might react to this less conventional scenario.)

- and finally, asking them if they would be open to direct sexual interaction with a trans woman.

(Another chance to find some fascinating correlations. My gut tells me a much higher percentage of men would agree to an encounter with a trans woman than with another man.)

I totally missed that Andrea mentioned the Crying game earlier. Honestly, that’s a fantastic, layered movie with some really solid character development. Just in case anyone hasn't seen it, the plot follows a soldier who falls hard for this incredibly attractive woman, only to eventually find out she's transgender. It’s a clever setup because the audience is kept in the dark for most of the film, so we're just riding along with him as he falls for this beauty. That said, what happens in the movie is actually quite different from what we're discussing here: the protagonist is essentially operating under a misconception, and once he realizes the truth, his whole struggle is about how to process who he's actually fallen for. Transgender people weren't his "type" before this happened.

Betty Fowler, I’m not sure how closely you read my opening post, but frankly, I couldn't care less about the homophobic perspective on trans people. There are plenty of reasons for that, but I’ll boil it down to two:

1. That specific viewpoint is pretty much a cliché because, as we’ve seen, many homophobes rarely miss an opportunity to air it.

So, if we're talking about trans individuals, you seem to think it's some kind of infectious disease that needs to be suppressed to prevent it from spreading through the population. Fine. To me, that take is incredibly stupid, but I’ve heard it enough times to know I don't want to debate it here—that wasn't why I started this thread. If you or anyone else wants to dissect the psyche of someone so terrified of gay people that they believe being exposed to them is "contagious," feel free to start a different thread. My only point to those who would try to "cure" homosexuality through things like medication, vaccines, electroshock therapy, psychoanalysis, or isolation is that their own irrational fear could just as easily be treated with those exact same methods, often with equally "successful" results.

2. Even if we ignore the scientific studies suggesting there’s a high number of latent homosexuals among aggressive homophobes—and let's just pretend for a second that isn't true—the homophobic perspective still doesn't matter here. In my intro, I made it clear that I am interested in how, despite all the social stigma, trans people intrigue and sexually attract certain men who aren't gay. Therefore, those holding onto rigid traditionalist stances aren't relevant to this discussion. They can stay right where they are.

What I find intriguing is what's going on with everyone else. Where does this intense interest in pornography (which Donna White50 mentioned) come from, whether it's in Thailand or on the streets of São Paulo? Even a casual crossdresser once shared their experiences with me regarding a night out at a popular club back home. There are even great cinematic examples of this: in that excellent Almodóvar film, All About Mother, a trans mother mentions at one point that a huge number of straight men are drawn to her, something she never experienced when she was a gay man.

Transgender people strike me as a pretty fascinating phenomenon. It isn’t just about the individuals themselves—though there has already been plenty written about gender dysphoria in Psychology here and here—it’s also about how everyone else reacts to them.

It seems that even in places where transgender visibility is relatively high, like Thailand or Brazil, they aren't entirely shielded from social stigma. They still tend to exist in a sort of half-world. Take Thailand, for example: you see them everywhere, and they aren't getting jumped in the streets or called slurs constantly, but finding a job outside of the sex industry is an uphill battle. Most end up in janitorial work. It’s a similar story in Brazil. I have better intel on that because I used to be friends with a Brazilian gay man—not trans himself, but he knew quite a few during his time in New York City. He told me the biggest hurdle is employment. They fare better on the street, where demand is high and the pay for sex work is actually better than what men earn, but if someone wants a "normal" career, the options are incredibly narrow, usually circling back to cleaning houses.

That said, while there is significant social stigma surrounding such a radical shift in gender roles (which often involves "cosmetic" changes rather than full surgical reassignment—think silicone implants, removing the Adam's apple, and standard hormone therapy), things look different when you strip away the social norms and look at it from an individual level. As I touched on earlier, transgender prostitutes in New York City (according to my friend) can out-earn men in the same business. And everyone knows they are a major pillar of the sex industry in Thailand. My takeaway is that they simply tap into a market that exists beyond the traditional male homosexual demographic. In Thailand, this is even more obvious; a huge portion of their clientele consists of middle-aged, heterosexual white Australians. These guys identify as straight and only sleep with women, except for these specific encounters.

For the skeptics, here’s an even more interesting case... That Brazilian guy I mentioned is the type of effeminate man whose sexual orientation you can spot from thirty yards away. Honestly, he doesn't even try to hide it; it shows in his clothes, his gestures, and his facial expressions. Once, a buddy of his—just a friend, not a partner—came to visit him, and they ended up getting jumped on a beach here in the States. A group of guys saw them, identified them as gay (especially since one was clearly effeminate), and decided they needed to teach them a lesson. It traumatized my friend so much that for the rest of his trip in America, he was terrified of being attacked by strangers.

On the flip side, there was another instance involving an art project. He had to dress as a woman for the stage (he’s done this before, and I can vouch that his camouflage was top-tier—he actually looked better as a woman than he did as an effeminate man). After the work was done, he and the crew went out to a club in the city. He stayed in his feminine disguise (so, a typical transvestite without the breast implants or the missing Adam's apple...). He told me that throughout the night in that packed club, a massive number of men were hitting on him. Like, a lot. Between being attractive (😁), speaking English and Portuguese with a Latin accent, and being all dolled up and made up... it worked. What was particularly strange was that a good portion of those men kept flirting even after he told them he was male.

What I'm getting at is that while social stigma is one thing, when you look at the psychology, you see something else entirely. The typical male disdain for homosexuality often softens the moment the person looks like a woman. You have these "hardcore" straight men who probably think they sit at a 0 or maybe a 1 on the Kinsey scale, yet they'll travel to Thailand and flirt shamelessly with a gorgeous, stunning woman with beautiful clothes, perfect makeup, fragrant hair, smooth skin, and a small penis and testicles. Some even go as far as more than just flirting. How does that work?

Just ignore all the nonsense being posted, just like everyone else does, and maybe this Forum will actually become a decent place to hang out. 👍

"You can throw all the seasoning you want at it, but if the base is trash, the whole dish is still garbage."