152 posts shown.
Brenda Doyle5 said:Yeah, right... especially when it comes to those self-righteous types.☕
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Daniel Gomez10 said:I'm curious how this even started? Did some kid ask her about Santa Claus, or did she just bring it up out of nowhere?
Honestly, kids start questioning things way before they turn two—not just about themselves, but about other kids and adults too.
And what if another adult tells them the truth?
Is that actually forbidden? Is it something that should strictly be left to parents to handle?
Do we just have to stay silent to make sure nobody's childhood gets ruined?
A classmate told my first grader that parents buy all the gifts and that there's no such thing as Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny. My son just looked at me and said he didn't believe him.😁
Also, I wanted to ask those of you who are devout Catholics—how do you explain Christmas presents if it's not the Baby Jesus bringing them?
Or do you guys skip the gifts entirely?
hiddendriver34 said:I disagree. Choosing whether or not a kid takes religious studies isn't always some deep 😬 religious or political statement made by parents acting on behalf of the child.
We try to be the kind of parents who don't force our views on our kids or make every single choice for them—that includes the decision about attending religious education classes.
Our kid makes his own call on whether he wants to participate or not, and he talks it through with us every year to re-evaluate.
I don't know what you want me to do with just a single username. Give me some actual text to work with! kaže:
The current administration is long past its expiration date, the main puppeteer is dead and gone, and that joke of a Supreme Court just washed their hands of the whole thing by claiming they don't even have jurisdiction. And honestly? We’re the ones to blame for every single government that followed. You can see it right here in this thread. But none of that excuses the hypocrisy of forcing religious studies into our public schools. It's totally inappropriate.
hiddenscout44 said:Oh, lovely. As if we Catholics didn't give you enough to be scared of, now we need conspiracy theories to claim we're all brainwashed by lies because the church doesn't live up to its own values😵
When I talk about this stuff, I'm strictly talking from personal experience. Plus, I'm one of those people who, back during the "Communist era," myself actually went to religious education classes without anyone trying to stop me (since I was like a 7-year-old kid, it was actually pretty cool to learn all those wild stories about God; back then, believing in all that supernatural stuff was genuinely interesting to me). So, based on my life—from school religious ed to all the sacraments, talking to priests, and studying other religions and customs—I've landed where I am today: the Catholic Church is essentially a profit-driven organization that drifted away from Christian roots a long, long time ago. Sure, within the church, and even in places like the Republican Party or major banks, there are honest, decent people, but they're such a tiny minority that they can't shift the overall direction of the organization. Especially not when it comes to local branches like the church in America, which is so stuck in its ways that even high-ranking officials often clash with the Pope. Anyway, that's enough about them...
So, based on all that, as a parent, I don't want to subject my kid to indoctrination by this organization, no matter how good their marketing is or how much they try to look better than they actually are. The reality is that nobody I know is a good person *because* of this organization; they just maintain relationships with it because of the image it projects (that it’s an organization of good people).
Btw, something funny happened recently: a coworker of my wife's, who's a huge believer, was totally shocked when she found out we didn't have a church wedding. This woman, in her 30s, basically concluded that "she knows plenty of good, normal people who don't go to church, just like she knows plenty of bad people who go every week" (wow, what a groundbreaking realization for an adult). So she wasn't surprised my wife is a good person despite not attending, but she did say she "felt bad because we're living in sin."
It would never even cross my mind to tell a believer "I feel bad for you because you're a believer" (because I think everyone should carry their own weight, so if someone wants to tie themselves to that organization and its worldview, that's their business). But on the flip side, believers are constantly judging non-believers with comments like that. It's like Jesus said: "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone" (man, that Catholic stone hit home...) and "Judge not, lest ye be judged." (Look, I know everything Jesus said, but I'm not Catholic and I'm "living in sin" in a marriage without a church sacrament.)
hiddenscout44 said:Oh, lovely. As if we Catholics didn't give you enough to be scared of, now we need conspiracy theories to claim we're all brainwashed by lies because the church doesn't live up to its own values😵
When I talk about this stuff, I'm strictly talking from personal experience. Plus, I'm one of those people who, back during the "Communist era," myself actually went to religious education classes without anyone trying to stop me (since I was like a 7-year-old kid, it was actually pretty cool to learn all those wild stories about God; back then, believing in all that supernatural stuff was genuinely interesting to me). So, based on my life—from school religious ed to all the sacraments, talking to priests, and studying other religions and customs—I've landed where I am today: the Catholic Church is essentially a profit-driven organization that drifted away from Christian roots a long, long time ago. Sure, within the church, and even in places like the Republican Party or major banks, there are honest, decent people, but they're such a tiny minority that they can't shift the overall direction of the organization. Especially not when it comes to local branches like the church in America, which is so stuck in its ways that even high-ranking officials often clash with the Pope. Anyway, that's enough about them...
So, based on all that, as a parent, I don't want to subject my kid to indoctrination by this organization, no matter how good their marketing is or how much they try to look better than they actually are. The reality is that nobody I know is a good person *because* of this organization; they just maintain relationships with it because of the image it projects (that it’s an organization of good people).
Btw, something funny happened recently: a coworker of my wife's, who's a huge believer, was totally shocked when she found out we didn't have a church wedding. This woman, in her 30s, basically concluded that "she knows plenty of good, normal people who don't go to church, just like she knows plenty of bad people who go every week" (wow, what a groundbreaking realization for an adult). So she wasn't surprised my wife is a good person despite not attending, but she did say she "felt bad because we're living in sin."
It would never even cross my mind to tell a believer "I feel bad for you because you're a believer" (because I think everyone should carry their own weight, so if someone wants to tie themselves to that organization and its worldview, that's their business). But on the flip side, believers are constantly judging non-believers with comments like that. It's like Jesus said: "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone" (man, that Catholic stone hit home...) and "Judge not, lest ye be judged." (Look, I know everything Jesus said, but I'm not Catholic and I'm "living in sin" in a marriage without a church sacrament.)
Susan James said:Do you actually have proof that dishonest people are enrolling their kids in religion class?
Isn't that a bit of a mean-spirited assumption? 🤔
On the other hand, I'm talking about the actual statistics regarding students reported for school violence by administrators or other institutions.
Within those numbers, the vast majority attended religious education at school (which is easy enough to verify, whether you check with a specific school during a free period or just ask a kid how their class went and what they're learning 🥳).
I honestly don't know what logic you're using to suggest I'm blaming religion for violence, because that wasn't my intention, nor does it make any sense to me.
My question was simply: how is it possible that after seven years of lessons and repetition, a child still can't grasp the basic rule of "don't do to others what you wouldn't want done to you"?
Supporters of these programs argue that these values are taught at home and that school has no influence (basically washing their hands of the responsibility), even though I believe influence is cumulative. If something is consistent over many years, it can actually overcome a negative environment at home.
But I have to ask, if religious education has absolutely no influence, then what is its purpose in the public school system?
If everything is supposedly learned within the family?
Or is the goal to just baptize non-religious kids so they become "good and obedient" and we get better numbers (meaning higher enrollment and more believers)? Meanwhile, we do nothing about the kids who are already prone to violence because "it all comes from the home" and we shouldn't interfere, essentially pretending the problem doesn't exist.
(Though, from what I hear, the Church would probably try to act like social workers and visit families. Honestly, I'm not against that. Right now, clergy often earn more than social workers, so it might be nice if they spent a little time looking after their local communities when they come for school visits. My only concern is the sanctity of the confessional; since priests aren't required to report certain crimes, I worry a lot of issues would stay buried within the family... without any real change.)
rowdypanther12 said:How can Catholics celebrate masquerades?
silentraven6 said:A school isn't a Catholic parish.
Jesse Cook4 said:I actually had some American colleagues visiting the other day. Americans are EXTREMELY religious; they take that stuff very seriously.
But they were absolutely horrified by the mere idea of organizing religious education in our public schools—let alone when I told them about a few specific incidents (like a teacher tearing down displays the kids put up for Halloween etc).
I won't stick my nose where it doesn't belong, but they found the whole thing bizarre...
Susan James said:How do you think I'll find proof?
You just look at the enrollment statistics for religious education classes per school (there are classrooms where it's 100% full) and compare that to the statistics on peer bullying.
I am not "wrapping anyone in packaging," so please don't twist my words or put things in my mouth that I didn't say.
I am not justifying any kind of violence through the existence of religious education, 😕, I am simply asking how it is possible that it exists in places where every single child attends those classes. 🤔
If religious education has zero impact (or a minimal one) on what children learn at home, then it's essentially useless.
It's just a waste of taxpayer money on salaries for religious instructors.
I've mentioned this several times before: parents can't teach their kids math or physics, so school is absolutely necessary for that kind of content.
But when it comes to what religion preaches—the most important stuff—parents can certainly do that themselves, provided they actually live out that faith.
If religious education fails to provide any moral guidance to a child who is already prone to violent behavior (meaning they aren't picking up anything new that they aren't already getting at home), then I really have to wonder: what is the point of teaching religious curriculum to religious people who are already learning all of this at home and at church on Sundays? 🤷
Jason Ortiz5 said:So, what does "balance of power" actually mean here? Religious ed was brought back in through political horse-trading. If more than half the population had identified as atheists back then, those agreements with the Vatican would have been signed regardless—it simply would have suited the government of the day. All these attempts to justify having religion in the classroom by leaning on some big "traditional American values" thing are honestly just pretty silly.
Susan James said:You didn't actually answer my question.
🥳
I'm not getting into the "why" behind parents enrolling kids in religion classes, or whether a Catholic is defined solely by attending Mass versus living by the moral values of the Ten Commandments while perhaps not attending church regularly (or at all).
I asked a very clear and direct question.
How is it possible for an entire class to take Catholic religious education, yet bullying in the classroom continues? How can violence increase after seven years of religious instruction, especially right before First Communion?
If it were just one student, that would be one thing, but we see this happening with at least one child per generation—if not per class—in every single school... so do the math.
It would be interesting to see the data on the kids causing trouble in middle school who have completed eight years of Catholic education and received every sacrament available to them.
If the argument is that these values are taught at home, then please, make sure those Catholic teachings actually stay within the family.
Thanks.
Susan James said:Could you clarify what you meant by that sentence?
From what I understand about Catholicism, all the commandments are equally important
and they're all covered in religious education classes.
As for myself, everything except the ones specifically mentioning God actually aligns with the values I live by and pass on to others.
I'm not Catholic.
When it comes to what I expect from a school as an educational institution, I expect zero tolerance for violence, regardless of whether a person follows those first three Catholic commandments or not.
You mentioned that the other commandments can't be followed if the first three aren't, but in my world, that just isn't the case—and it shouldn't be that way in a school setting either. Your argument implies that if a child isn't baptized or doesn't attend religious ed (meaning they aren't familiar with the first three commandments), they somehow can't adopt basic, widely accepted social norms.😕 😕 😕
melloworca6 said:I totally blanked on people with disabilities and the elderly who can't get around easily. My grandma used to go to Mass every single Sunday, but she hasn't been able to for years now because her balance is just shot—she gets so dizzy, she can't stand up, and honestly, she’d probably just end up breaking a hip trying to get out the door. It's like she isn't a "real" Catholic anymore. She just watches the service on TV on Sundays and prays the Rosary every day, but she isn't physically sitting in a church pew. Watching a livestream doesn't count. 😁
Robert Rodriguez9 said:Just a quick thought on this: my grandmother was a believer, but she was also wise enough to know that God doesn't live inside a church building.
Jason Ortiz5 said:When you've got kids, especially during those crazy teenage years, home life isn't the only thing shaping them. I'm not trying to excuse parents who say one thing but do another—which, let's face it, happens a lot—but I just wanted to bring up that old saying about how it takes a whole village to raise a child.
And since the whole argument for religious education is that it instills these specific "moral" values, then yeah, it's pretty clear it's failing its main mission.
Lawrence Torres56 said:Think about it—seven years of forty-five-minute sessions twice a week—how exactly do you expect that to undo fourteen years of being raised in an environment where they're learning a completely different set of rules twenty-four hours a day?
And why did the Catholic Church fail here?
If anyone dropped the ball, it’s strictly the parents who are setting a terrible example for their kids...
I mean, how can you seriously expect a child to listen to a lesson about loving others as themselves in class, only to head home and see nothing but "every man for himself" from their own parents?
Bullying doesn't stem from true believers or atheists; it comes from the people who flip-flop between the two whenever it suits them.