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Posts by neonmarlin39

139 posts shown.

Paul Rogers94 said:Time, space, matter, and energy all emerge alongside the subject—and vanish right along with it.

In a deep, dreamless sleep, there is no subject, no space, no time, and no energy.

Everyone and everything else has either vanished or is simply waiting "somewhere out there" for the subject to wake up. 🤣
Every sense of direction—here, there, everywhere, or nowhere—emerges only when the subject does.
Without the subject, there is no "here" or "there," no "somewhere" or "nowhere."

Yet, in the morning, once you wake up, the subject reappears—and with it, time, space, matter, and energy (the manifest universe) reappear too.
As does the perceived divide between subject and object.
Neither the subject nor the object exists independently of the other.
The manifest universe cannot exist without the subject, just as no subject can exist without an object (the manifestation).
It is one and the same.
If you ask what a subject would look like without the manifest universe (the object), the answer is simple: no such subject could possibly exist.Because the subject itself is just another part of the manifestation.
...

Nah, they don't just pop in and out. They’re still right there, no matter what kind of headspace someone is in—whether you're wide awake, dreaming, in a deep sleep, unconscious, or even dead. That's just a plain old fact you can prove if you look at it right.

Paul Rogers94 said:Time, space, matter, and energy all emerge alongside the subject—and vanish right along with it.

In a deep, dreamless sleep, there is no subject, no space, no time, and no energy.

Everyone and everything else has either vanished or is simply waiting "somewhere out there" for the subject to wake up. 🤣
Every sense of direction—here, there, everywhere, or nowhere—emerges only when the subject does.
Without the subject, there is no "here" or "there," no "somewhere" or "nowhere."

Yet, in the morning, once you wake up, the subject reappears—and with it, time, space, matter, and energy (the manifest universe) reappear too.
As does the perceived divide between subject and object.
Neither the subject nor the object exists independently of the other.
The manifest universe cannot exist without the subject, just as no subject can exist without an object (the manifestation).
It is one and the same.
If you ask what a subject would look like without the manifest universe (the object), the answer is simple: no such subject could possibly exist.Because the subject itself is just another part of the manifestation.
...

Not for a mind stuck in deep sleep, anyway. The world hasn't gone anywhere, and neither has the person sleeping in it; they just aren't aware of it. Time and everything else are still ticking away and doing their thing, whether someone is sleeping through it or not, conscious or otherwise.

Paul Rogers94 said:Time, space, matter, and energy all emerge alongside the subject—and vanish right along with it.

In a deep, dreamless sleep, there is no subject, no space, no time, and no energy.

Everyone and everything else has either vanished or is simply waiting "somewhere out there" for the subject to wake up. 🤣
Every sense of direction—here, there, everywhere, or nowhere—emerges only when the subject does.
Without the subject, there is no "here" or "there," no "somewhere" or "nowhere."

Yet, in the morning, once you wake up, the subject reappears—and with it, time, space, matter, and energy (the manifest universe) reappear too.
As does the perceived divide between subject and object.
Neither the subject nor the object exists independently of the other.
The manifest universe cannot exist without the subject, just as no subject can exist without an object (the manifestation).
It is one and the same.
If you ask what a subject would look like without the manifest universe (the object), the answer is simple: no such subject could possibly exist.Because the subject itself is just another part of the manifestation.
...

When someone wakes up, they just... wake up. Time, space, matter, and energy didn't suddenly materialize. It's more like the mind shifts back into an alert state where it's plugged back into the senses, allowing it to perceive the surroundings and act around. In that awake state, you clearly experience the world and know it's there. While you're dreaming or in a deep sleep, you aren't aware of the outside world or even your own thoughts, but just because you aren't aware doesn't mean the world stopped existing. Reality doesn't depend on how someone perceives it.

Paul Rogers94 said:Time, space, matter, and energy all emerge alongside the subject—and vanish right along with it.

In a deep, dreamless sleep, there is no subject, no space, no time, and no energy.

Everyone and everything else has either vanished or is simply waiting "somewhere out there" for the subject to wake up. 🤣
Every sense of direction—here, there, everywhere, or nowhere—emerges only when the subject does.
Without the subject, there is no "here" or "there," no "somewhere" or "nowhere."

Yet, in the morning, once you wake up, the subject reappears—and with it, time, space, matter, and energy (the manifest universe) reappear too.
As does the perceived divide between subject and object.
Neither the subject nor the object exists independently of the other.
The manifest universe cannot exist without the subject, just as no subject can exist without an object (the manifestation).
It is one and the same.
If you ask what a subject would look like without the manifest universe (the object), the answer is simple: no such subject could possibly exist.Because the subject itself is just another part of the manifestation.
...

Everything points to the opposite. It's really just that no single individual can exist without the universe itself.

David Vaughn75 said:But how can you even claim sound exists if you aren't there to witness it? How did you ever establish its existence in the first place?

Wait, so does "objective perception" even exist? And who exactly is out there perceiving this "objective perception"?

We have a massive amount of data today regarding the universe and time periods that predated the existence of the human race or life on Earth altogether.

Yeah, sure—but we're just subjects mentally processing the *concept* of time from eras long before life even crawled onto the planet.

If you're looking at this from a philosophical or spiritual angle, "perception" isn't really the right way to put it. When it comes to Purusha (God), He doesn't just "perceive" the universe—He *is* the universe. Everything is Brahman (Purusha + Prakrti). Even if there wasn't a single living soul left in the entire cosmos to witness anything, Purusha would still be the one "perceiving" it all. He’s the creator who wasn't created, and He took on all these specific attributes and traits through a "part" of Himself to become this whole universe and everything in it (Saguna brahman). At the end of the day, the existence of the universe and everything within it doesn't rely on some individual mind's subjective view. Honestly, claiming that is kind of funny because every single mind is just as much a creation as the universe itself. Reality depends solely on Purusha, or Paratman, God—whatever term you feel like using.
Paul Rogers94 said:Take a closer look. 🙂

That’s great and all, but you can't really play the "science and peer-reviewed studies" card at the same time when talking about that kind of stuff.

You're totally misreading the situation. If I had said it to you directly, you would've been like "he can'tsh," rather than just "he can't" (I mean, sure, could be a typo, but you gotta look at the context here). It was clearly referring to those posts a few spots up where lonestag15 was throwing around scientific research and papers regarding Kundalini, dopamine, electricity, and trying to equate various crazies in mental wards with some "Kundalini rising symptom" or whatever else—all before you jumped in with that Crowley quote.
Paul Rogers94 said:Trying to examine spirituality through a scientific lens is like having some professional geographer attempt to analyze Gooliver's travels from a strictly academic standpoint...

Aleister Crowley

That’s fair, I guess, but you can't really play both sides of the fence—you can't claim science and hard data back to back when talking about this stuff.

At the end of the day, we're physical, mental, and spiritual beings all rolled into one. It's not like these are three separate silos that don't touch. Plus, the physical and mental side—which includes things like hormones—is definitely right in the wheelhouse of actual science.
bluemason3 said:What exactly do you mean by "official" versus "unofficial," or "recognized" versus "unrecognized"?
There isn't some "Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith" in the scientific community that gets to decide what's allowed.
If someone conducts solid research, publishes it in a reputable journal, and—if possible—has their findings verified by independent teams, then they have a scientific argument. If not, they don't. It’s pretty straightforward. 🤷

The way you're defining pseudoscience is off. Pseudoscience isn't just some "cutting-edge" field where people are testing unproven hypotheses. Real pseudoscience is using "expert-sounding" jargon to create an illusion of legitimacy while completely ignoring, or actively avoiding, actual scientific methodology.

It’s pretty straightforward. When you see a scientific paper published in a legit peer-reviewed journal, it means it’s passed some basic level of scrutiny—or at least started the process. You can't just scribble something down, call it "science," and claim it's proven. I mean, sure, you see people try that move every now and then, but they usually get figured out pretty fast when nobody takes them seriously.
lonestag15 said:Just because it hasn't hit the mainstream scientific consensus yet doesn't mean there isn't actual research out there—it just means the studies are too recent to be officially "recognized" by the establishment. It’s a timing thing, really. Do yourself a favor, look it up online, and actually educate yourself on the topic...

Look, just because some method for measuring brain waves hasn't been officially sanctioned by the FDA doesn't mean the data isn't real. Someone actually sat down, did the work, and pulled legitimate readings from the measurements... Just because it isn't "official" doesn't automatically make it wrong...

People have already started throwing around the whole "kundalini symptoms" thing lately—but honestly? Psychiatrists have been well aware of those exact same signs for ages... just like the gurus have.

Look, just because all the theories being tossed around right now aren't considered "official science" doesn't mean they're wrong... it just means they haven't been vetted yet. And honestly, if we decide that anything labeled "pseudoscience" is automatically garbage, we might as well just pack up the lab coats and stop researching new fields altogether—because, let’s be real, everything starts out looking like pseudoscience until it isn't...

You’re 100% wrong about this...
Honestly, I’m pretty much done with this whole debate—I want to wrap this thing up right now... Going off to dig through books or scour the internet just feels like a massive waste of my energy. This entire conversation is honestly going nowhere... Just go learn about the subject on your own, because arguing this with anyone is just a drain on my time. Not that I’m trying to shade you personally or anything—it’s just pointless to keep clashing like this. It’s literally a waste of breath... You're better off actually studying the topic from people who have actual legitimacy—you know, folks who have written 200-page books on the matter...

And yeah, raising Kundalini falls right into that category.

Who even said dopamine was the most important part of the whole hormonal system? Don't put words in my mouth. You asked why I kept bringing up dopamine, so I answered you because its role is huge when it comes to developing mental illness...

My "personal theory" plus the experiences of millions of people plus actual gurus who warn about these exact issues... and you just dismiss all of that in one single sentence—which, honestly, you probably haven't even practiced long enough to know, because if you had, you'd get it...

If you actually bothered to learn anything about what I'm talking about, you'd wrap your head around it in five minutes... well, five minutes just to read it, really...

So, bottom line: go pick up some books, hit the internet, and actually educate yourself...

...I don't have the energy to go back and forth like this forever if you aren't willing to actually study the subject...

As far as I'm concerned, I'm done with this topic. I've laid out the theory, the evidence, and the subjective experiences... whether you want to take something from it or not, I don't know... I'd suggest one more time that you maybe reread what's already been written...

LOL. Nah, you’re gonna need to drop a legit peer-reviewed study or something the actual scientific community agrees on. Until then, people are just gonna assume I'm right and that you're out here peddling pseudoscience—claiming things are "proven" when there's zero actual evidence to back them up.

lonestag15 said:Just because it hasn't hit the mainstream scientific consensus yet doesn't mean there isn't actual research out there—it just means the studies are too recent to be officially "recognized" by the establishment. It’s a timing thing, really. Do yourself a favor, look it up online, and actually educate yourself on the topic...

Look, just because some method for measuring brain waves hasn't been officially sanctioned by the FDA doesn't mean the data isn't real. Someone actually sat down, did the work, and pulled legitimate readings from the measurements... Just because it isn't "official" doesn't automatically make it wrong...

People have already started throwing around the whole "kundalini symptoms" thing lately—but honestly? Psychiatrists have been well aware of those exact same signs for ages... just like the gurus have.

Look, just because all the theories being tossed around right now aren't considered "official science" doesn't mean they're wrong... it just means they haven't been vetted yet. And honestly, if we decide that anything labeled "pseudoscience" is automatically garbage, we might as well just pack up the lab coats and stop researching new fields altogether—because, let’s be real, everything starts out looking like pseudoscience until it isn't...

You’re 100% wrong about this...
Honestly, I’m pretty much done with this whole debate—I want to wrap this thing up right now... Going off to dig through books or scour the internet just feels like a massive waste of my energy. This entire conversation is honestly going nowhere... Just go learn about the subject on your own, because arguing this with anyone is just a drain on my time. Not that I’m trying to shade you personally or anything—it’s just pointless to keep clashing like this. It’s literally a waste of breath... You're better off actually studying the topic from people who have actual legitimacy—you know, folks who have written 200-page books on the matter...

And yeah, raising Kundalini falls right into that category.

Who even said dopamine was the most important part of the whole hormonal system? Don't put words in my mouth. You asked why I kept bringing up dopamine, so I answered you because its role is huge when it comes to developing mental illness...

My "personal theory" plus the experiences of millions of people plus actual gurus who warn about these exact issues... and you just dismiss all of that in one single sentence—which, honestly, you probably haven't even practiced long enough to know, because if you had, you'd get it...

If you actually bothered to learn anything about what I'm talking about, you'd wrap your head around it in five minutes... well, five minutes just to read it, really...

So, bottom line: go pick up some books, hit the internet, and actually educate yourself...

...I don't have the energy to go back and forth like this forever if you aren't willing to actually study the subject...

As far as I'm concerned, I'm done with this topic. I've laid out the theory, the evidence, and the subjective experiences... whether you want to take something from it or not, I don't know... I'd suggest one more time that you maybe reread what's already been written...

I think you’re getting a bit mixed up on what actually defines science versus pseudoscience—and honestly, there's a big difference between hard data and just someone's personal take. Just because a new study comes out doesn't automatically mean everything else is fake or "pseudo." It’s not that simple.

lonestag15 said:Just because it hasn't hit the mainstream scientific consensus yet doesn't mean there isn't actual research out there—it just means the studies are too recent to be officially "recognized" by the establishment. It’s a timing thing, really. Do yourself a favor, look it up online, and actually educate yourself on the topic...

Look, just because some method for measuring brain waves hasn't been officially sanctioned by the FDA doesn't mean the data isn't real. Someone actually sat down, did the work, and pulled legitimate readings from the measurements... Just because it isn't "official" doesn't automatically make it wrong...

People have already started throwing around the whole "kundalini symptoms" thing lately—but honestly? Psychiatrists have been well aware of those exact same signs for ages... just like the gurus have.

Look, just because all the theories being tossed around right now aren't considered "official science" doesn't mean they're wrong... it just means they haven't been vetted yet. And honestly, if we decide that anything labeled "pseudoscience" is automatically garbage, we might as well just pack up the lab coats and stop researching new fields altogether—because, let’s be real, everything starts out looking like pseudoscience until it isn't...

You’re 100% wrong about this...
Honestly, I’m pretty much done with this whole debate—I want to wrap this thing up right now... Going off to dig through books or scour the internet just feels like a massive waste of my energy. This entire conversation is honestly going nowhere... Just go learn about the subject on your own, because arguing this with anyone is just a drain on my time. Not that I’m trying to shade you personally or anything—it’s just pointless to keep clashing like this. It’s literally a waste of breath... You're better off actually studying the topic from people who have actual legitimacy—you know, folks who have written 200-page books on the matter...

And yeah, raising Kundalini falls right into that category.

Who even said dopamine was the most important part of the whole hormonal system? Don't put words in my mouth. You asked why I kept bringing up dopamine, so I answered you because its role is huge when it comes to developing mental illness...

My "personal theory" plus the experiences of millions of people plus actual gurus who warn about these exact issues... and you just dismiss all of that in one single sentence—which, honestly, you probably haven't even practiced long enough to know, because if you had, you'd get it...

If you actually bothered to learn anything about what I'm talking about, you'd wrap your head around it in five minutes... well, five minutes just to read it, really...

So, bottom line: go pick up some books, hit the internet, and actually educate yourself...

...I don't have the energy to go back and forth like this forever if you aren't willing to actually study the subject...

As far as I'm concerned, I'm done with this topic. I've laid out the theory, the evidence, and the subjective experiences... whether you want to take something from it or not, I don't know... I'd suggest one more time that you maybe reread what's already been written...

Look, I’m not saying you're wrong. But seriously, can you point to even one single scientific paper that actually proves Kundalini exists? Like, at all? As far as I know, there hasn't been any actual scientific proof for stuff like that.

lonestag15 said:Just because it hasn't hit the mainstream scientific consensus yet doesn't mean there isn't actual research out there—it just means the studies are too recent to be officially "recognized" by the establishment. It’s a timing thing, really. Do yourself a favor, look it up online, and actually educate yourself on the topic...

Look, just because some method for measuring brain waves hasn't been officially sanctioned by the FDA doesn't mean the data isn't real. Someone actually sat down, did the work, and pulled legitimate readings from the measurements... Just because it isn't "official" doesn't automatically make it wrong...

People have already started throwing around the whole "kundalini symptoms" thing lately—but honestly? Psychiatrists have been well aware of those exact same signs for ages... just like the gurus have.

Look, just because all the theories being tossed around right now aren't considered "official science" doesn't mean they're wrong... it just means they haven't been vetted yet. And honestly, if we decide that anything labeled "pseudoscience" is automatically garbage, we might as well just pack up the lab coats and stop researching new fields altogether—because, let’s be real, everything starts out looking like pseudoscience until it isn't...

You’re 100% wrong about this...
Honestly, I’m pretty much done with this whole debate—I want to wrap this thing up right now... Going off to dig through books or scour the internet just feels like a massive waste of my energy. This entire conversation is honestly going nowhere... Just go learn about the subject on your own, because arguing this with anyone is just a drain on my time. Not that I’m trying to shade you personally or anything—it’s just pointless to keep clashing like this. It’s literally a waste of breath... You're better off actually studying the topic from people who have actual legitimacy—you know, folks who have written 200-page books on the matter...

And yeah, raising Kundalini falls right into that category.

Who even said dopamine was the most important part of the whole hormonal system? Don't put words in my mouth. You asked why I kept bringing up dopamine, so I answered you because its role is huge when it comes to developing mental illness...

My "personal theory" plus the experiences of millions of people plus actual gurus who warn about these exact issues... and you just dismiss all of that in one single sentence—which, honestly, you probably haven't even practiced long enough to know, because if you had, you'd get it...

If you actually bothered to learn anything about what I'm talking about, you'd wrap your head around it in five minutes... well, five minutes just to read it, really...

So, bottom line: go pick up some books, hit the internet, and actually educate yourself...

...I don't have the energy to go back and forth like this forever if you aren't willing to actually study the subject...

As far as I'm concerned, I'm done with this topic. I've laid out the theory, the evidence, and the subjective experiences... whether you want to take something from it or not, I don't know... I'd suggest one more time that you maybe reread what's already been written...

Whatever you were reading, it clearly wasn't exactly a reliable source. You're totally tripping over some of the most important details here.

lonestag15 said:Just because it hasn't hit the mainstream scientific consensus yet doesn't mean there isn't actual research out there—it just means the studies are too recent to be officially "recognized" by the establishment. It’s a timing thing, really. Do yourself a favor, look it up online, and actually educate yourself on the topic...

Look, just because some method for measuring brain waves hasn't been officially sanctioned by the FDA doesn't mean the data isn't real. Someone actually sat down, did the work, and pulled legitimate readings from the measurements... Just because it isn't "official" doesn't automatically make it wrong...

People have already started throwing around the whole "kundalini symptoms" thing lately—but honestly? Psychiatrists have been well aware of those exact same signs for ages... just like the gurus have.

Look, just because all the theories being tossed around right now aren't considered "official science" doesn't mean they're wrong... it just means they haven't been vetted yet. And honestly, if we decide that anything labeled "pseudoscience" is automatically garbage, we might as well just pack up the lab coats and stop researching new fields altogether—because, let’s be real, everything starts out looking like pseudoscience until it isn't...

You’re 100% wrong about this...
Honestly, I’m pretty much done with this whole debate—I want to wrap this thing up right now... Going off to dig through books or scour the internet just feels like a massive waste of my energy. This entire conversation is honestly going nowhere... Just go learn about the subject on your own, because arguing this with anyone is just a drain on my time. Not that I’m trying to shade you personally or anything—it’s just pointless to keep clashing like this. It’s literally a waste of breath... You're better off actually studying the topic from people who have actual legitimacy—you know, folks who have written 200-page books on the matter...

And yeah, raising Kundalini falls right into that category.

Who even said dopamine was the most important part of the whole hormonal system? Don't put words in my mouth. You asked why I kept bringing up dopamine, so I answered you because its role is huge when it comes to developing mental illness...

My "personal theory" plus the experiences of millions of people plus actual gurus who warn about these exact issues... and you just dismiss all of that in one single sentence—which, honestly, you probably haven't even practiced long enough to know, because if you had, you'd get it...

If you actually bothered to learn anything about what I'm talking about, you'd wrap your head around it in five minutes... well, five minutes just to read it, really...

So, bottom line: go pick up some books, hit the internet, and actually educate yourself...

...I don't have the energy to go back and forth like this forever if you aren't willing to actually study the subject...

As far as I'm concerned, I'm done with this topic. I've laid out the theory, the evidence, and the subjective experiences... whether you want to take something from it or not, I don't know... I'd suggest one more time that you maybe reread what's already been written...

🤣

lonestag15 said:Just because it hasn't hit the mainstream scientific consensus yet doesn't mean there isn't actual research out there—it just means the studies are too recent to be officially "recognized" by the establishment. It’s a timing thing, really. Do yourself a favor, look it up online, and actually educate yourself on the topic...

Look, just because some method for measuring brain waves hasn't been officially sanctioned by the FDA doesn't mean the data isn't real. Someone actually sat down, did the work, and pulled legitimate readings from the measurements... Just because it isn't "official" doesn't automatically make it wrong...

People have already started throwing around the whole "kundalini symptoms" thing lately—but honestly? Psychiatrists have been well aware of those exact same signs for ages... just like the gurus have.

Look, just because all the theories being tossed around right now aren't considered "official science" doesn't mean they're wrong... it just means they haven't been vetted yet. And honestly, if we decide that anything labeled "pseudoscience" is automatically garbage, we might as well just pack up the lab coats and stop researching new fields altogether—because, let’s be real, everything starts out looking like pseudoscience until it isn't...

You’re 100% wrong about this...
Honestly, I’m pretty much done with this whole debate—I want to wrap this thing up right now... Going off to dig through books or scour the internet just feels like a massive waste of my energy. This entire conversation is honestly going nowhere... Just go learn about the subject on your own, because arguing this with anyone is just a drain on my time. Not that I’m trying to shade you personally or anything—it’s just pointless to keep clashing like this. It’s literally a waste of breath... You're better off actually studying the topic from people who have actual legitimacy—you know, folks who have written 200-page books on the matter...

And yeah, raising Kundalini falls right into that category.

Who even said dopamine was the most important part of the whole hormonal system? Don't put words in my mouth. You asked why I kept bringing up dopamine, so I answered you because its role is huge when it comes to developing mental illness...

My "personal theory" plus the experiences of millions of people plus actual gurus who warn about these exact issues... and you just dismiss all of that in one single sentence—which, honestly, you probably haven't even practiced long enough to know, because if you had, you'd get it...

If you actually bothered to learn anything about what I'm talking about, you'd wrap your head around it in five minutes... well, five minutes just to read it, really...

So, bottom line: go pick up some books, hit the internet, and actually educate yourself...

...I don't have the energy to go back and forth like this forever if you aren't willing to actually study the subject...

As far as I'm concerned, I'm done with this topic. I've laid out the theory, the evidence, and the subjective experiences... whether you want to take something from it or not, I don't know... I'd suggest one more time that you maybe reread what's already been written...

I'm definitely not the type who needs that kind of lecture.

lonestag15 said:Just because it hasn't hit the mainstream scientific consensus yet doesn't mean there isn't actual research out there—it just means the studies are too recent to be officially "recognized" by the establishment. It’s a timing thing, really. Do yourself a favor, look it up online, and actually educate yourself on the topic...

Look, just because some method for measuring brain waves hasn't been officially sanctioned by the FDA doesn't mean the data isn't real. Someone actually sat down, did the work, and pulled legitimate readings from the measurements... Just because it isn't "official" doesn't automatically make it wrong...

People have already started throwing around the whole "kundalini symptoms" thing lately—but honestly? Psychiatrists have been well aware of those exact same signs for ages... just like the gurus have.

Look, just because all the theories being tossed around right now aren't considered "official science" doesn't mean they're wrong... it just means they haven't been vetted yet. And honestly, if we decide that anything labeled "pseudoscience" is automatically garbage, we might as well just pack up the lab coats and stop researching new fields altogether—because, let’s be real, everything starts out looking like pseudoscience until it isn't...

You’re 100% wrong about this...
Honestly, I’m pretty much done with this whole debate—I want to wrap this thing up right now... Going off to dig through books or scour the internet just feels like a massive waste of my energy. This entire conversation is honestly going nowhere... Just go learn about the subject on your own, because arguing this with anyone is just a drain on my time. Not that I’m trying to shade you personally or anything—it’s just pointless to keep clashing like this. It’s literally a waste of breath... You're better off actually studying the topic from people who have actual legitimacy—you know, folks who have written 200-page books on the matter...

And yeah, raising Kundalini falls right into that category.

Who even said dopamine was the most important part of the whole hormonal system? Don't put words in my mouth. You asked why I kept bringing up dopamine, so I answered you because its role is huge when it comes to developing mental illness...

My "personal theory" plus the experiences of millions of people plus actual gurus who warn about these exact issues... and you just dismiss all of that in one single sentence—which, honestly, you probably haven't even practiced long enough to know, because if you had, you'd get it...

If you actually bothered to learn anything about what I'm talking about, you'd wrap your head around it in five minutes... well, five minutes just to read it, really...

So, bottom line: go pick up some books, hit the internet, and actually educate yourself...

...I don't have the energy to go back and forth like this forever if you aren't willing to actually study the subject...

As far as I'm concerned, I'm done with this topic. I've laid out the theory, the evidence, and the subjective experiences... whether you want to take something from it or not, I don't know... I'd suggest one more time that you maybe reread what's already been written...

Your conclusion is totally off base.

lonestag15 said:Just because it hasn't hit the mainstream scientific consensus yet doesn't mean there isn't actual research out there—it just means the studies are too recent to be officially "recognized" by the establishment. It’s a timing thing, really. Do yourself a favor, look it up online, and actually educate yourself on the topic...

Look, just because some method for measuring brain waves hasn't been officially sanctioned by the FDA doesn't mean the data isn't real. Someone actually sat down, did the work, and pulled legitimate readings from the measurements... Just because it isn't "official" doesn't automatically make it wrong...

People have already started throwing around the whole "kundalini symptoms" thing lately—but honestly? Psychiatrists have been well aware of those exact same signs for ages... just like the gurus have.

Look, just because all the theories being tossed around right now aren't considered "official science" doesn't mean they're wrong... it just means they haven't been vetted yet. And honestly, if we decide that anything labeled "pseudoscience" is automatically garbage, we might as well just pack up the lab coats and stop researching new fields altogether—because, let’s be real, everything starts out looking like pseudoscience until it isn't...

You’re 100% wrong about this...
Honestly, I’m pretty much done with this whole debate—I want to wrap this thing up right now... Going off to dig through books or scour the internet just feels like a massive waste of my energy. This entire conversation is honestly going nowhere... Just go learn about the subject on your own, because arguing this with anyone is just a drain on my time. Not that I’m trying to shade you personally or anything—it’s just pointless to keep clashing like this. It’s literally a waste of breath... You're better off actually studying the topic from people who have actual legitimacy—you know, folks who have written 200-page books on the matter...

And yeah, raising Kundalini falls right into that category.

Who even said dopamine was the most important part of the whole hormonal system? Don't put words in my mouth. You asked why I kept bringing up dopamine, so I answered you because its role is huge when it comes to developing mental illness...

My "personal theory" plus the experiences of millions of people plus actual gurus who warn about these exact issues... and you just dismiss all of that in one single sentence—which, honestly, you probably haven't even practiced long enough to know, because if you had, you'd get it...

If you actually bothered to learn anything about what I'm talking about, you'd wrap your head around it in five minutes... well, five minutes just to read it, really...

So, bottom line: go pick up some books, hit the internet, and actually educate yourself...

...I don't have the energy to go back and forth like this forever if you aren't willing to actually study the subject...

As far as I'm concerned, I'm done with this topic. I've laid out the theory, the evidence, and the subjective experiences... whether you want to take something from it or not, I don't know... I'd suggest one more time that you maybe reread what's already been written...

You haven't brought up a single shred of evidence. And honestly, who knows what kind of random websites you're browsing to back this up...
lonestag15 said:Please, don't tell me there's no "official" science behind this—just look it up online. This guy literally has a PhD on the subject, specifically focused on EEG research. And that’s not even touching on everything we know from the psychiatry side of things...

Piezoelectricity is a legitimate science... just like the connection between your spine and your brain...

Then there’s this other point I made—there isn't some official academic department where you just sit in a lecture hall learning about ways to shift brainwave frequencies (which doesn't mean people haven't spent their lives messing around with that and presenting data, obviously)... If you look into electrical engineering, there’s a massive pile of research out there regarding fringe science—or quasi-science, if you want to be pedantic—and a ton of it is just sitting online waiting for you, provided you actually have the drive to go find it. "Official" is just a label for whatever was taught twenty years ago... and honestly, it hasn't changed since.

Is there actually a link between raising your Kundalini and spiking your dopamine levels? Or am I just tripping...

So first you go ahead and confirm that all these different approaches actually work...

So, why does dopamine even matter in all this? Because spiking those levels—or just having your receptors acting wonky—is exactly what triggers psychosis, schizophrenia, or even schizoaffective disorder. That’s why I keep hammering home that specific shared link between Kundalini practices and full-blown psychosis... It’s the common thread. Whether a certain dopamine threshold is going to flip someone's switch or not depends on the individual, obviously, but generally speaking? A little "proceed with caution" is probably the best advice you can get...

Look, I'll say it again: there's zero scientific proof for Kundalini. It just isn't recognized by any actual science out there.

lonestag15 said:Please, don't tell me there's no "official" science behind this—just look it up online. This guy literally has a PhD on the subject, specifically focused on EEG research. And that’s not even touching on everything we know from the psychiatry side of things...

Piezoelectricity is a legitimate science... just like the connection between your spine and your brain...

Then there’s this other point I made—there isn't some official academic department where you just sit in a lecture hall learning about ways to shift brainwave frequencies (which doesn't mean people haven't spent their lives messing around with that and presenting data, obviously)... If you look into electrical engineering, there’s a massive pile of research out there regarding fringe science—or quasi-science, if you want to be pedantic—and a ton of it is just sitting online waiting for you, provided you actually have the drive to go find it. "Official" is just a label for whatever was taught twenty years ago... and honestly, it hasn't changed since.

Is there actually a link between raising your Kundalini and spiking your dopamine levels? Or am I just tripping...

So first you go ahead and confirm that all these different approaches actually work...

So, why does dopamine even matter in all this? Because spiking those levels—or just having your receptors acting wonky—is exactly what triggers psychosis, schizophrenia, or even schizoaffective disorder. That’s why I keep hammering home that specific shared link between Kundalini practices and full-blown psychosis... It’s the common thread. Whether a certain dopamine threshold is going to flip someone's switch or not depends on the individual, obviously, but generally speaking? A little "proceed with caution" is probably the best advice you can get...

Where exactly in any actual scientific discipline do you even see Kundalini being mentioned? Like, is there any single academic community out there that actually recognizes it as legit?

lonestag15 said:Please, don't tell me there's no "official" science behind this—just look it up online. This guy literally has a PhD on the subject, specifically focused on EEG research. And that’s not even touching on everything we know from the psychiatry side of things...

Piezoelectricity is a legitimate science... just like the connection between your spine and your brain...

Then there’s this other point I made—there isn't some official academic department where you just sit in a lecture hall learning about ways to shift brainwave frequencies (which doesn't mean people haven't spent their lives messing around with that and presenting data, obviously)... If you look into electrical engineering, there’s a massive pile of research out there regarding fringe science—or quasi-science, if you want to be pedantic—and a ton of it is just sitting online waiting for you, provided you actually have the drive to go find it. "Official" is just a label for whatever was taught twenty years ago... and honestly, it hasn't changed since.

Is there actually a link between raising your Kundalini and spiking your dopamine levels? Or am I just tripping...

So first you go ahead and confirm that all these different approaches actually work...

So, why does dopamine even matter in all this? Because spiking those levels—or just having your receptors acting wonky—is exactly what triggers psychosis, schizophrenia, or even schizoaffective disorder. That’s why I keep hammering home that specific shared link between Kundalini practices and full-blown psychosis... It’s the common thread. Whether a certain dopamine threshold is going to flip someone's switch or not depends on the individual, obviously, but generally speaking? A little "proceed with caution" is probably the best advice you can get...

Nah, officially there’s zero connection to how much stuff you actually learned back in the day. Pseudoscience just isn't science, plain and simple.

lonestag15 said:Please, don't tell me there's no "official" science behind this—just look it up online. This guy literally has a PhD on the subject, specifically focused on EEG research. And that’s not even touching on everything we know from the psychiatry side of things...

Piezoelectricity is a legitimate science... just like the connection between your spine and your brain...

Then there’s this other point I made—there isn't some official academic department where you just sit in a lecture hall learning about ways to shift brainwave frequencies (which doesn't mean people haven't spent their lives messing around with that and presenting data, obviously)... If you look into electrical engineering, there’s a massive pile of research out there regarding fringe science—or quasi-science, if you want to be pedantic—and a ton of it is just sitting online waiting for you, provided you actually have the drive to go find it. "Official" is just a label for whatever was taught twenty years ago... and honestly, it hasn't changed since.

Is there actually a link between raising your Kundalini and spiking your dopamine levels? Or am I just tripping...

So first you go ahead and confirm that all these different approaches actually work...

So, why does dopamine even matter in all this? Because spiking those levels—or just having your receptors acting wonky—is exactly what triggers psychosis, schizophrenia, or even schizoaffective disorder. That’s why I keep hammering home that specific shared link between Kundalini practices and full-blown psychosis... It’s the common thread. Whether a certain dopamine threshold is going to flip someone's switch or not depends on the individual, obviously, but generally speaking? A little "proceed with caution" is probably the best advice you can get...

You're trying to link those two things together, but honestly, that's just not how it works. In actual science, there's zero connection between them—elevated dopamine levels have nothing to do with what you're talking about.

lonestag15 said:Please, don't tell me there's no "official" science behind this—just look it up online. This guy literally has a PhD on the subject, specifically focused on EEG research. And that’s not even touching on everything we know from the psychiatry side of things...

Piezoelectricity is a legitimate science... just like the connection between your spine and your brain...

Then there’s this other point I made—there isn't some official academic department where you just sit in a lecture hall learning about ways to shift brainwave frequencies (which doesn't mean people haven't spent their lives messing around with that and presenting data, obviously)... If you look into electrical engineering, there’s a massive pile of research out there regarding fringe science—or quasi-science, if you want to be pedantic—and a ton of it is just sitting online waiting for you, provided you actually have the drive to go find it. "Official" is just a label for whatever was taught twenty years ago... and honestly, it hasn't changed since.

Is there actually a link between raising your Kundalini and spiking your dopamine levels? Or am I just tripping...

So first you go ahead and confirm that all these different approaches actually work...

So, why does dopamine even matter in all this? Because spiking those levels—or just having your receptors acting wonky—is exactly what triggers psychosis, schizophrenia, or even schizoaffective disorder. That’s why I keep hammering home that specific shared link between Kundalini practices and full-blown psychosis... It’s the common thread. Whether a certain dopamine threshold is going to flip someone's switch or not depends on the individual, obviously, but generally speaking? A little "proceed with caution" is probably the best advice you can get...

Look, I already made it clear—there are definitely practices out there that can actually mess with how your body releases hormones.

lonestag15 said:Please, don't tell me there's no "official" science behind this—just look it up online. This guy literally has a PhD on the subject, specifically focused on EEG research. And that’s not even touching on everything we know from the psychiatry side of things...

Piezoelectricity is a legitimate science... just like the connection between your spine and your brain...

Then there’s this other point I made—there isn't some official academic department where you just sit in a lecture hall learning about ways to shift brainwave frequencies (which doesn't mean people haven't spent their lives messing around with that and presenting data, obviously)... If you look into electrical engineering, there’s a massive pile of research out there regarding fringe science—or quasi-science, if you want to be pedantic—and a ton of it is just sitting online waiting for you, provided you actually have the drive to go find it. "Official" is just a label for whatever was taught twenty years ago... and honestly, it hasn't changed since.

Is there actually a link between raising your Kundalini and spiking your dopamine levels? Or am I just tripping...

So first you go ahead and confirm that all these different approaches actually work...

So, why does dopamine even matter in all this? Because spiking those levels—or just having your receptors acting wonky—is exactly what triggers psychosis, schizophrenia, or even schizoaffective disorder. That’s why I keep hammering home that specific shared link between Kundalini practices and full-blown psychosis... It’s the common thread. Whether a certain dopamine threshold is going to flip someone's switch or not depends on the individual, obviously, but generally speaking? A little "proceed with caution" is probably the best advice you can get...

Man, you are seriously stuck on this dopamine thing. The human endocrine system is incredibly complex; it’s way more than just dopamine being the MVP or the only hormone that matters. Linking psychosis directly to "Kundalini rising" and blaming the practice is just your own take—it isn't some established scientific fact.
Paul Rogers94 said:as if
(you're presenting this as "arguments and evidence," but the sentence doesn't even make sense syntactically, let alone regarding the topic at hand. I have no idea how you arrived at that thought or what logic you used to get there; it's just a naked assertion based on your conviction that that's just how things are)
there is no wine bottle
a wine bottle doesn't know it's a wine bottle; it only becomes one as an idea in your mind
likewise, a dog doesn't know it's a dog or have any ideas about such things; it only becomes a dog in your mind
there is no dog
an apple doesn't know it's an apple until you define/conceptualize it in your mind, and so on
the universe is merely your own mental construct
the person you think you are also exists only as an idea in your mind

what we perceive as reality is simply a mental interpretation
outside of our interpretation, there is no reality
because we/Brahman are the only true reality, not the individual persona we identify with

I think I've explained—as clearly and simply as possible, given my limited abilities—why I believe the phenomenal universe is neither real nor unreal, and that it only takes on those qualities when viewed through the categories of the mind. I've also clarified why trying to resolve this through mental categorization is impossible and pointless. I don't care if anyone agrees with me; the fact that you find this unacceptable isn't my problem. So stop badgering me about it and instead present some actual 😁 "arguments and evidence" for why you think it's real. I've already explained why being a slave to mental categories is a dead end and why debating them is futile, and I've noted that the only way to resolve the question is through direct insight

yet, you still haven't defined what mental concepts actually are
(nor have you provided any proof to support your claims that I'm "detached from reality," that I'm "drawing wrong conclusions," or that I'm "slaving to dogmas"—it honestly looks like you've just decided that's how it is)

Ultimately, you don't even know how to hold a basic debate because you lack the necessary tools. You're hollow, aimless, and seemingly lacking the cognitive capacity for this
your persistent whining about "arguments and evidence" is getting ridiculous.😬 , and there isn't a single trace of anything like that in the entire history of your senseless, frustrated little forum posts

Now, go ahead—say it out loud three times to yourself;

'Existence and non-existence are not mental concepts.'
'Existence and non-existence are not mental concepts.'
'Existence and non-existence are not mental concepts.'

Then, try to notice the impression that leaves on you (if there's even any sense left to feel)

Does that statement have any actual grounding, or does it just exist within your exhausted mind?

See, that’s the thing—all your so-called "evidence" and "arguments" feel just as hollow as your constant, stubborn insistence on using them.

For every single one of your "proofs," anyone could spend sixty seconds on Google and find thousands of counter-points and rebuttals.

You're nonsensical—honestly, you're even more nonsensical than Zachary Cox69, and you're easily the most nonsensical person here when it comes to this "reasoned debate" you keep trying to force...

Man, you still haven't grasped the basics, like the difference between subjective and objective. You're just talking nonsense. There is no dog? No apple? The objective existence of a dog or an apple has absolutely nothing to do with your subjectivity. If you imagine some imaginary dog-unicorn in your head, that doesn't make it real. Also, a real dog and its existence have zero connection to your subjectivity, your definitions, your perception, or how you understand things. A wine bottle doesn't need to "know" it's a bottle to exist, just like you don't need to know it either, and neither does any other individual or group. When it exists, it just exists. It isn't dependent on you or your subjective perception, which has zero impact on that bottle. What kind of fantasy are you peddling here? Are you high, or are you just totally disconnected from the real world? Or is this like how Christians hope for heaven—you're just hoping for an escape from some illusory world?

Not to mention, when a person is asleep and not dreaming, they aren't having thoughts or concepts, but they still exist just fine, just like the universe still exists during that time😁

Paul Rogers94 said:as if
(you're presenting this as "arguments and evidence," but the sentence doesn't even make sense syntactically, let alone regarding the topic at hand. I have no idea how you arrived at that thought or what logic you used to get there; it's just a naked assertion based on your conviction that that's just how things are)
there is no wine bottle
a wine bottle doesn't know it's a wine bottle; it only becomes one as an idea in your mind
likewise, a dog doesn't know it's a dog or have any ideas about such things; it only becomes a dog in your mind
there is no dog
an apple doesn't know it's an apple until you define/conceptualize it in your mind, and so on
the universe is merely your own mental construct
the person you think you are also exists only as an idea in your mind

what we perceive as reality is simply a mental interpretation
outside of our interpretation, there is no reality
because we/Brahman are the only true reality, not the individual persona we identify with

I think I've explained—as clearly and simply as possible, given my limited abilities—why I believe the phenomenal universe is neither real nor unreal, and that it only takes on those qualities when viewed through the categories of the mind. I've also clarified why trying to resolve this through mental categorization is impossible and pointless. I don't care if anyone agrees with me; the fact that you find this unacceptable isn't my problem. So stop badgering me about it and instead present some actual 😁 "arguments and evidence" for why you think it's real. I've already explained why being a slave to mental categories is a dead end and why debating them is futile, and I've noted that the only way to resolve the question is through direct insight

yet, you still haven't defined what mental concepts actually are
(nor have you provided any proof to support your claims that I'm "detached from reality," that I'm "drawing wrong conclusions," or that I'm "slaving to dogmas"—it honestly looks like you've just decided that's how it is)

Ultimately, you don't even know how to hold a basic debate because you lack the necessary tools. You're hollow, aimless, and seemingly lacking the cognitive capacity for this
your persistent whining about "arguments and evidence" is getting ridiculous.😬 , and there isn't a single trace of anything like that in the entire history of your senseless, frustrated little forum posts

Now, go ahead—say it out loud three times to yourself;

'Existence and non-existence are not mental concepts.'
'Existence and non-existence are not mental concepts.'
'Existence and non-existence are not mental concepts.'

Then, try to notice the impression that leaves on you (if there's even any sense left to feel)

Does that statement have any actual grounding, or does it just exist within your exhausted mind?

See, that’s the thing—all your so-called "evidence" and "arguments" feel just as hollow as your constant, stubborn insistence on using them.

For every single one of your "proofs," anyone could spend sixty seconds on Google and find thousands of counter-points and rebuttals.

You're nonsensical—honestly, you're even more nonsensical than Zachary Cox69, and you're easily the most nonsensical person here when it comes to this "reasoned debate" you keep trying to force...

Reality has nothing to do with your interpretation. Reality is one thing, and your interpretation is something else entirely. Even if you (and your mind) didn't exist, reality would still be right there. The whole universe exists and is real regardless of whether you're around to see it or not, believe it or not.

Paul Rogers94 said:as if
(you're presenting this as "arguments and evidence," but the sentence doesn't even make sense syntactically, let alone regarding the topic at hand. I have no idea how you arrived at that thought or what logic you used to get there; it's just a naked assertion based on your conviction that that's just how things are)
there is no wine bottle
a wine bottle doesn't know it's a wine bottle; it only becomes one as an idea in your mind
likewise, a dog doesn't know it's a dog or have any ideas about such things; it only becomes a dog in your mind
there is no dog
an apple doesn't know it's an apple until you define/conceptualize it in your mind, and so on
the universe is merely your own mental construct
the person you think you are also exists only as an idea in your mind

what we perceive as reality is simply a mental interpretation
outside of our interpretation, there is no reality
because we/Brahman are the only true reality, not the individual persona we identify with

I think I've explained—as clearly and simply as possible, given my limited abilities—why I believe the phenomenal universe is neither real nor unreal, and that it only takes on those qualities when viewed through the categories of the mind. I've also clarified why trying to resolve this through mental categorization is impossible and pointless. I don't care if anyone agrees with me; the fact that you find this unacceptable isn't my problem. So stop badgering me about it and instead present some actual 😁 "arguments and evidence" for why you think it's real. I've already explained why being a slave to mental categories is a dead end and why debating them is futile, and I've noted that the only way to resolve the question is through direct insight

yet, you still haven't defined what mental concepts actually are
(nor have you provided any proof to support your claims that I'm "detached from reality," that I'm "drawing wrong conclusions," or that I'm "slaving to dogmas"—it honestly looks like you've just decided that's how it is)

Ultimately, you don't even know how to hold a basic debate because you lack the necessary tools. You're hollow, aimless, and seemingly lacking the cognitive capacity for this
your persistent whining about "arguments and evidence" is getting ridiculous.😬 , and there isn't a single trace of anything like that in the entire history of your senseless, frustrated little forum posts

Now, go ahead—say it out loud three times to yourself;

'Existence and non-existence are not mental concepts.'
'Existence and non-existence are not mental concepts.'
'Existence and non-existence are not mental concepts.'

Then, try to notice the impression that leaves on you (if there's even any sense left to feel)

Does that statement have any actual grounding, or does it just exist within your exhausted mind?

See, that’s the thing—all your so-called "evidence" and "arguments" feel just as hollow as your constant, stubborn insistence on using them.

For every single one of your "proofs," anyone could spend sixty seconds on Google and find thousands of counter-points and rebuttals.

You're nonsensical—honestly, you're even more nonsensical than Zachary Cox69, and you're easily the most nonsensical person here when it comes to this "reasoned debate" you keep trying to force...

You didn't really clear anything up, man. You just laid out your own dogmas and these super vague claims that honestly don't hold water once you look at them through any actual philosophical lens or even basic logic. It feels like you’re just leaning on stuff you believe in without having any real evidence or solid arguments to back it up. So, come on—give me just one single shred of proof, a decent argument, or even a hint of something that suggests the universe isn't exactly as "real" as you seem to think it is.

Paul Rogers94 said:as if
(you're presenting this as "arguments and evidence," but the sentence doesn't even make sense syntactically, let alone regarding the topic at hand. I have no idea how you arrived at that thought or what logic you used to get there; it's just a naked assertion based on your conviction that that's just how things are)
there is no wine bottle
a wine bottle doesn't know it's a wine bottle; it only becomes one as an idea in your mind
likewise, a dog doesn't know it's a dog or have any ideas about such things; it only becomes a dog in your mind
there is no dog
an apple doesn't know it's an apple until you define/conceptualize it in your mind, and so on
the universe is merely your own mental construct
the person you think you are also exists only as an idea in your mind

what we perceive as reality is simply a mental interpretation
outside of our interpretation, there is no reality
because we/Brahman are the only true reality, not the individual persona we identify with

I think I've explained—as clearly and simply as possible, given my limited abilities—why I believe the phenomenal universe is neither real nor unreal, and that it only takes on those qualities when viewed through the categories of the mind. I've also clarified why trying to resolve this through mental categorization is impossible and pointless. I don't care if anyone agrees with me; the fact that you find this unacceptable isn't my problem. So stop badgering me about it and instead present some actual 😁 "arguments and evidence" for why you think it's real. I've already explained why being a slave to mental categories is a dead end and why debating them is futile, and I've noted that the only way to resolve the question is through direct insight

yet, you still haven't defined what mental concepts actually are
(nor have you provided any proof to support your claims that I'm "detached from reality," that I'm "drawing wrong conclusions," or that I'm "slaving to dogmas"—it honestly looks like you've just decided that's how it is)

Ultimately, you don't even know how to hold a basic debate because you lack the necessary tools. You're hollow, aimless, and seemingly lacking the cognitive capacity for this
your persistent whining about "arguments and evidence" is getting ridiculous.😬 , and there isn't a single trace of anything like that in the entire history of your senseless, frustrated little forum posts

Now, go ahead—say it out loud three times to yourself;

'Existence and non-existence are not mental concepts.'
'Existence and non-existence are not mental concepts.'
'Existence and non-existence are not mental concepts.'

Then, try to notice the impression that leaves on you (if there's even any sense left to feel)

Does that statement have any actual grounding, or does it just exist within your exhausted mind?

See, that’s the thing—all your so-called "evidence" and "arguments" feel just as hollow as your constant, stubborn insistence on using them.

For every single one of your "proofs," anyone could spend sixty seconds on Google and find thousands of counter-points and rebuttals.

You're nonsensical—honestly, you're even more nonsensical than Zachary Cox69, and you're easily the most nonsensical person here when it comes to this "reasoned debate" you keep trying to force...

But honestly, the biggest issue is how you just keep overthinking everything. You’re constantly trying to spin these deep, broken philosophical excuses for even the most basic stuff—like we were already talking about. I mean, seriously? Subjectivity vs. objectivity, imagination versus reality, relativity versus the absolute... you're making simple things way more complicated than they need to be.

Paul Rogers94 said:as if
(you're presenting this as "arguments and evidence," but the sentence doesn't even make sense syntactically, let alone regarding the topic at hand. I have no idea how you arrived at that thought or what logic you used to get there; it's just a naked assertion based on your conviction that that's just how things are)
there is no wine bottle
a wine bottle doesn't know it's a wine bottle; it only becomes one as an idea in your mind
likewise, a dog doesn't know it's a dog or have any ideas about such things; it only becomes a dog in your mind
there is no dog
an apple doesn't know it's an apple until you define/conceptualize it in your mind, and so on
the universe is merely your own mental construct
the person you think you are also exists only as an idea in your mind

what we perceive as reality is simply a mental interpretation
outside of our interpretation, there is no reality
because we/Brahman are the only true reality, not the individual persona we identify with

I think I've explained—as clearly and simply as possible, given my limited abilities—why I believe the phenomenal universe is neither real nor unreal, and that it only takes on those qualities when viewed through the categories of the mind. I've also clarified why trying to resolve this through mental categorization is impossible and pointless. I don't care if anyone agrees with me; the fact that you find this unacceptable isn't my problem. So stop badgering me about it and instead present some actual 😁 "arguments and evidence" for why you think it's real. I've already explained why being a slave to mental categories is a dead end and why debating them is futile, and I've noted that the only way to resolve the question is through direct insight

yet, you still haven't defined what mental concepts actually are
(nor have you provided any proof to support your claims that I'm "detached from reality," that I'm "drawing wrong conclusions," or that I'm "slaving to dogmas"—it honestly looks like you've just decided that's how it is)

Ultimately, you don't even know how to hold a basic debate because you lack the necessary tools. You're hollow, aimless, and seemingly lacking the cognitive capacity for this
your persistent whining about "arguments and evidence" is getting ridiculous.😬 , and there isn't a single trace of anything like that in the entire history of your senseless, frustrated little forum posts

Now, go ahead—say it out loud three times to yourself;

'Existence and non-existence are not mental concepts.'
'Existence and non-existence are not mental concepts.'
'Existence and non-existence are not mental concepts.'

Then, try to notice the impression that leaves on you (if there's even any sense left to feel)

Does that statement have any actual grounding, or does it just exist within your exhausted mind?

See, that’s the thing—all your so-called "evidence" and "arguments" feel just as hollow as your constant, stubborn insistence on using them.

For every single one of your "proofs," anyone could spend sixty seconds on Google and find thousands of counter-points and rebuttals.

You're nonsensical—honestly, you're even more nonsensical than Zachary Cox69, and you're easily the most nonsensical person here when it comes to this "reasoned debate" you keep trying to force...

Look, the thing is, reality doesn't care if you're ready for it or not. You can sit there clinging to whatever dogmas you want, acting like the world isn't actually happening around you, but those beliefs don't mean squat once you step outside. It’s like when I was walking down a street in Chicago last year and tripped over a curb—suddenly, that hard concrete becomes very, very real. If a brick hits you in the face, that's about as much proof as you'll ever need that the universe is definitely real and it definitely exists.

Paul Rogers94 said:as if
(you're presenting this as "arguments and evidence," but the sentence doesn't even make sense syntactically, let alone regarding the topic at hand. I have no idea how you arrived at that thought or what logic you used to get there; it's just a naked assertion based on your conviction that that's just how things are)
there is no wine bottle
a wine bottle doesn't know it's a wine bottle; it only becomes one as an idea in your mind
likewise, a dog doesn't know it's a dog or have any ideas about such things; it only becomes a dog in your mind
there is no dog
an apple doesn't know it's an apple until you define/conceptualize it in your mind, and so on
the universe is merely your own mental construct
the person you think you are also exists only as an idea in your mind

what we perceive as reality is simply a mental interpretation
outside of our interpretation, there is no reality
because we/Brahman are the only true reality, not the individual persona we identify with

I think I've explained—as clearly and simply as possible, given my limited abilities—why I believe the phenomenal universe is neither real nor unreal, and that it only takes on those qualities when viewed through the categories of the mind. I've also clarified why trying to resolve this through mental categorization is impossible and pointless. I don't care if anyone agrees with me; the fact that you find this unacceptable isn't my problem. So stop badgering me about it and instead present some actual 😁 "arguments and evidence" for why you think it's real. I've already explained why being a slave to mental categories is a dead end and why debating them is futile, and I've noted that the only way to resolve the question is through direct insight

yet, you still haven't defined what mental concepts actually are
(nor have you provided any proof to support your claims that I'm "detached from reality," that I'm "drawing wrong conclusions," or that I'm "slaving to dogmas"—it honestly looks like you've just decided that's how it is)

Ultimately, you don't even know how to hold a basic debate because you lack the necessary tools. You're hollow, aimless, and seemingly lacking the cognitive capacity for this
your persistent whining about "arguments and evidence" is getting ridiculous.😬 , and there isn't a single trace of anything like that in the entire history of your senseless, frustrated little forum posts

Now, go ahead—say it out loud three times to yourself;

'Existence and non-existence are not mental concepts.'
'Existence and non-existence are not mental concepts.'
'Existence and non-existence are not mental concepts.'

Then, try to notice the impression that leaves on you (if there's even any sense left to feel)

Does that statement have any actual grounding, or does it just exist within your exhausted mind?

See, that’s the thing—all your so-called "evidence" and "arguments" feel just as hollow as your constant, stubborn insistence on using them.

For every single one of your "proofs," anyone could spend sixty seconds on Google and find thousands of counter-points and rebuttals.

You're nonsensical—honestly, you're even more nonsensical than Zachary Cox69, and you're easily the most nonsensical person here when it comes to this "reasoned debate" you keep trying to force...

Take a look at that stuff above regarding the brickwork to get things started, along with all the other points people have been throwing out there.

Paul Rogers94 said:as if
(you're presenting this as "arguments and evidence," but the sentence doesn't even make sense syntactically, let alone regarding the topic at hand. I have no idea how you arrived at that thought or what logic you used to get there; it's just a naked assertion based on your conviction that that's just how things are)
there is no wine bottle
a wine bottle doesn't know it's a wine bottle; it only becomes one as an idea in your mind
likewise, a dog doesn't know it's a dog or have any ideas about such things; it only becomes a dog in your mind
there is no dog
an apple doesn't know it's an apple until you define/conceptualize it in your mind, and so on
the universe is merely your own mental construct
the person you think you are also exists only as an idea in your mind

what we perceive as reality is simply a mental interpretation
outside of our interpretation, there is no reality
because we/Brahman are the only true reality, not the individual persona we identify with

I think I've explained—as clearly and simply as possible, given my limited abilities—why I believe the phenomenal universe is neither real nor unreal, and that it only takes on those qualities when viewed through the categories of the mind. I've also clarified why trying to resolve this through mental categorization is impossible and pointless. I don't care if anyone agrees with me; the fact that you find this unacceptable isn't my problem. So stop badgering me about it and instead present some actual 😁 "arguments and evidence" for why you think it's real. I've already explained why being a slave to mental categories is a dead end and why debating them is futile, and I've noted that the only way to resolve the question is through direct insight

yet, you still haven't defined what mental concepts actually are
(nor have you provided any proof to support your claims that I'm "detached from reality," that I'm "drawing wrong conclusions," or that I'm "slaving to dogmas"—it honestly looks like you've just decided that's how it is)

Ultimately, you don't even know how to hold a basic debate because you lack the necessary tools. You're hollow, aimless, and seemingly lacking the cognitive capacity for this
your persistent whining about "arguments and evidence" is getting ridiculous.😬 , and there isn't a single trace of anything like that in the entire history of your senseless, frustrated little forum posts

Now, go ahead—say it out loud three times to yourself;

'Existence and non-existence are not mental concepts.'
'Existence and non-existence are not mental concepts.'
'Existence and non-existence are not mental concepts.'

Then, try to notice the impression that leaves on you (if there's even any sense left to feel)

Does that statement have any actual grounding, or does it just exist within your exhausted mind?

See, that’s the thing—all your so-called "evidence" and "arguments" feel just as hollow as your constant, stubborn insistence on using them.

For every single one of your "proofs," anyone could spend sixty seconds on Google and find thousands of counter-points and rebuttals.

You're nonsensical—honestly, you're even more nonsensical than Zachary Cox69, and you're easily the most nonsensical person here when it comes to this "reasoned debate" you keep trying to force...

Man, you’re just proving once again that when you run out of actual points, you just resort to insults. Not a single one of your posts can go by without you getting nasty. It’s like you never learned how to actually have a decent, civilized debate...

Paul Rogers94 said:as if
(you're presenting this as "arguments and evidence," but the sentence doesn't even make sense syntactically, let alone regarding the topic at hand. I have no idea how you arrived at that thought or what logic you used to get there; it's just a naked assertion based on your conviction that that's just how things are)
there is no wine bottle
a wine bottle doesn't know it's a wine bottle; it only becomes one as an idea in your mind
likewise, a dog doesn't know it's a dog or have any ideas about such things; it only becomes a dog in your mind
there is no dog
an apple doesn't know it's an apple until you define/conceptualize it in your mind, and so on
the universe is merely your own mental construct
the person you think you are also exists only as an idea in your mind

what we perceive as reality is simply a mental interpretation
outside of our interpretation, there is no reality
because we/Brahman are the only true reality, not the individual persona we identify with

I think I've explained—as clearly and simply as possible, given my limited abilities—why I believe the phenomenal universe is neither real nor unreal, and that it only takes on those qualities when viewed through the categories of the mind. I've also clarified why trying to resolve this through mental categorization is impossible and pointless. I don't care if anyone agrees with me; the fact that you find this unacceptable isn't my problem. So stop badgering me about it and instead present some actual 😁 "arguments and evidence" for why you think it's real. I've already explained why being a slave to mental categories is a dead end and why debating them is futile, and I've noted that the only way to resolve the question is through direct insight

yet, you still haven't defined what mental concepts actually are
(nor have you provided any proof to support your claims that I'm "detached from reality," that I'm "drawing wrong conclusions," or that I'm "slaving to dogmas"—it honestly looks like you've just decided that's how it is)

Ultimately, you don't even know how to hold a basic debate because you lack the necessary tools. You're hollow, aimless, and seemingly lacking the cognitive capacity for this
your persistent whining about "arguments and evidence" is getting ridiculous.😬 , and there isn't a single trace of anything like that in the entire history of your senseless, frustrated little forum posts

Now, go ahead—say it out loud three times to yourself;

'Existence and non-existence are not mental concepts.'
'Existence and non-existence are not mental concepts.'
'Existence and non-existence are not mental concepts.'

Then, try to notice the impression that leaves on you (if there's even any sense left to feel)

Does that statement have any actual grounding, or does it just exist within your exhausted mind?

See, that’s the thing—all your so-called "evidence" and "arguments" feel just as hollow as your constant, stubborn insistence on using them.

For every single one of your "proofs," anyone could spend sixty seconds on Google and find thousands of counter-points and rebuttals.

You're nonsensical—honestly, you're even more nonsensical than Zachary Cox69, and you're easily the most nonsensical person here when it comes to this "reasoned debate" you keep trying to force...

Maybe try reading more carefully and working on your logic, then you might actually see the point in some of my posts. I can't really help you there, especially since you're being so arrogant and rude—you should probably start by fixing that attitude. Honestly, you're the only one sounding frustrated and nonsensical here; your posts basically scream it. Or are you just seeing things that aren't there and living in a fantasy world?

Paul Rogers94 said:as if
(you're presenting this as "arguments and evidence," but the sentence doesn't even make sense syntactically, let alone regarding the topic at hand. I have no idea how you arrived at that thought or what logic you used to get there; it's just a naked assertion based on your conviction that that's just how things are)
there is no wine bottle
a wine bottle doesn't know it's a wine bottle; it only becomes one as an idea in your mind
likewise, a dog doesn't know it's a dog or have any ideas about such things; it only becomes a dog in your mind
there is no dog
an apple doesn't know it's an apple until you define/conceptualize it in your mind, and so on
the universe is merely your own mental construct
the person you think you are also exists only as an idea in your mind

what we perceive as reality is simply a mental interpretation
outside of our interpretation, there is no reality
because we/Brahman are the only true reality, not the individual persona we identify with

I think I've explained—as clearly and simply as possible, given my limited abilities—why I believe the phenomenal universe is neither real nor unreal, and that it only takes on those qualities when viewed through the categories of the mind. I've also clarified why trying to resolve this through mental categorization is impossible and pointless. I don't care if anyone agrees with me; the fact that you find this unacceptable isn't my problem. So stop badgering me about it and instead present some actual 😁 "arguments and evidence" for why you think it's real. I've already explained why being a slave to mental categories is a dead end and why debating them is futile, and I've noted that the only way to resolve the question is through direct insight

yet, you still haven't defined what mental concepts actually are
(nor have you provided any proof to support your claims that I'm "detached from reality," that I'm "drawing wrong conclusions," or that I'm "slaving to dogmas"—it honestly looks like you've just decided that's how it is)

Ultimately, you don't even know how to hold a basic debate because you lack the necessary tools. You're hollow, aimless, and seemingly lacking the cognitive capacity for this
your persistent whining about "arguments and evidence" is getting ridiculous.😬 , and there isn't a single trace of anything like that in the entire history of your senseless, frustrated little forum posts

Now, go ahead—say it out loud three times to yourself;

'Existence and non-existence are not mental concepts.'
'Existence and non-existence are not mental concepts.'
'Existence and non-existence are not mental concepts.'

Then, try to notice the impression that leaves on you (if there's even any sense left to feel)

Does that statement have any actual grounding, or does it just exist within your exhausted mind?

See, that’s the thing—all your so-called "evidence" and "arguments" feel just as hollow as your constant, stubborn insistence on using them.

For every single one of your "proofs," anyone could spend sixty seconds on Google and find thousands of counter-points and rebuttals.

You're nonsensical—honestly, you're even more nonsensical than Zachary Cox69, and you're easily the most nonsensical person here when it comes to this "reasoned debate" you keep trying to force...

Work on your deductive reasoning. Quality matters way more than quantity, which is pretty obvious from what you just wrote, since you didn't actually say anything meaningful or concrete.

Paul Rogers94 said:as if
(you're presenting this as "arguments and evidence," but the sentence doesn't even make sense syntactically, let alone regarding the topic at hand. I have no idea how you arrived at that thought or what logic you used to get there; it's just a naked assertion based on your conviction that that's just how things are)
there is no wine bottle
a wine bottle doesn't know it's a wine bottle; it only becomes one as an idea in your mind
likewise, a dog doesn't know it's a dog or have any ideas about such things; it only becomes a dog in your mind
there is no dog
an apple doesn't know it's an apple until you define/conceptualize it in your mind, and so on
the universe is merely your own mental construct
the person you think you are also exists only as an idea in your mind

what we perceive as reality is simply a mental interpretation
outside of our interpretation, there is no reality
because we/Brahman are the only true reality, not the individual persona we identify with

I think I've explained—as clearly and simply as possible, given my limited abilities—why I believe the phenomenal universe is neither real nor unreal, and that it only takes on those qualities when viewed through the categories of the mind. I've also clarified why trying to resolve this through mental categorization is impossible and pointless. I don't care if anyone agrees with me; the fact that you find this unacceptable isn't my problem. So stop badgering me about it and instead present some actual 😁 "arguments and evidence" for why you think it's real. I've already explained why being a slave to mental categories is a dead end and why debating them is futile, and I've noted that the only way to resolve the question is through direct insight

yet, you still haven't defined what mental concepts actually are
(nor have you provided any proof to support your claims that I'm "detached from reality," that I'm "drawing wrong conclusions," or that I'm "slaving to dogmas"—it honestly looks like you've just decided that's how it is)

Ultimately, you don't even know how to hold a basic debate because you lack the necessary tools. You're hollow, aimless, and seemingly lacking the cognitive capacity for this
your persistent whining about "arguments and evidence" is getting ridiculous.😬 , and there isn't a single trace of anything like that in the entire history of your senseless, frustrated little forum posts

Now, go ahead—say it out loud three times to yourself;

'Existence and non-existence are not mental concepts.'
'Existence and non-existence are not mental concepts.'
'Existence and non-existence are not mental concepts.'

Then, try to notice the impression that leaves on you (if there's even any sense left to feel)

Does that statement have any actual grounding, or does it just exist within your exhausted mind?

See, that’s the thing—all your so-called "evidence" and "arguments" feel just as hollow as your constant, stubborn insistence on using them.

For every single one of your "proofs," anyone could spend sixty seconds on Google and find thousands of counter-points and rebuttals.

You're nonsensical—honestly, you're even more nonsensical than Zachary Cox69, and you're easily the most nonsensical person here when it comes to this "reasoned debate" you keep trying to force...

I don't even think that. That's just your take. The sentence was "You don't understand basic concepts like an objective bottle of wine versus your own concept of a bottle of wine and how you perceive it." I didn't say "You don't understand basic concepts like the concept of an objective bottle of wine versus your own concept..." like you wrongly concluded while trying to act smart.

But since you brought it up, "objective concept" is an actual term, but let's not get sidetracked. At least now you know the term exists and how people actually use it. 😁

Paul Rogers94 said:as if
(you're presenting this as "arguments and evidence," but the sentence doesn't even make sense syntactically, let alone regarding the topic at hand. I have no idea how you arrived at that thought or what logic you used to get there; it's just a naked assertion based on your conviction that that's just how things are)
there is no wine bottle
a wine bottle doesn't know it's a wine bottle; it only becomes one as an idea in your mind
likewise, a dog doesn't know it's a dog or have any ideas about such things; it only becomes a dog in your mind
there is no dog
an apple doesn't know it's an apple until you define/conceptualize it in your mind, and so on
the universe is merely your own mental construct
the person you think you are also exists only as an idea in your mind

what we perceive as reality is simply a mental interpretation
outside of our interpretation, there is no reality
because we/Brahman are the only true reality, not the individual persona we identify with

I think I've explained—as clearly and simply as possible, given my limited abilities—why I believe the phenomenal universe is neither real nor unreal, and that it only takes on those qualities when viewed through the categories of the mind. I've also clarified why trying to resolve this through mental categorization is impossible and pointless. I don't care if anyone agrees with me; the fact that you find this unacceptable isn't my problem. So stop badgering me about it and instead present some actual 😁 "arguments and evidence" for why you think it's real. I've already explained why being a slave to mental categories is a dead end and why debating them is futile, and I've noted that the only way to resolve the question is through direct insight

yet, you still haven't defined what mental concepts actually are
(nor have you provided any proof to support your claims that I'm "detached from reality," that I'm "drawing wrong conclusions," or that I'm "slaving to dogmas"—it honestly looks like you've just decided that's how it is)

Ultimately, you don't even know how to hold a basic debate because you lack the necessary tools. You're hollow, aimless, and seemingly lacking the cognitive capacity for this
your persistent whining about "arguments and evidence" is getting ridiculous.😬 , and there isn't a single trace of anything like that in the entire history of your senseless, frustrated little forum posts

Now, go ahead—say it out loud three times to yourself;

'Existence and non-existence are not mental concepts.'
'Existence and non-existence are not mental concepts.'
'Existence and non-existence are not mental concepts.'

Then, try to notice the impression that leaves on you (if there's even any sense left to feel)

Does that statement have any actual grounding, or does it just exist within your exhausted mind?

See, that’s the thing—all your so-called "evidence" and "arguments" feel just as hollow as your constant, stubborn insistence on using them.

For every single one of your "proofs," anyone could spend sixty seconds on Google and find thousands of counter-points and rebuttals.

You're nonsensical—honestly, you're even more nonsensical than Zachary Cox69, and you're easily the most nonsensical person here when it comes to this "reasoned debate" you keep trying to force...

It's pretty clear who's losing it.

Paul Rogers94 said:as if
(you're presenting this as "arguments and evidence," but the sentence doesn't even make sense syntactically, let alone regarding the topic at hand. I have no idea how you arrived at that thought or what logic you used to get there; it's just a naked assertion based on your conviction that that's just how things are)
there is no wine bottle
a wine bottle doesn't know it's a wine bottle; it only becomes one as an idea in your mind
likewise, a dog doesn't know it's a dog or have any ideas about such things; it only becomes a dog in your mind
there is no dog
an apple doesn't know it's an apple until you define/conceptualize it in your mind, and so on
the universe is merely your own mental construct
the person you think you are also exists only as an idea in your mind

what we perceive as reality is simply a mental interpretation
outside of our interpretation, there is no reality
because we/Brahman are the only true reality, not the individual persona we identify with

I think I've explained—as clearly and simply as possible, given my limited abilities—why I believe the phenomenal universe is neither real nor unreal, and that it only takes on those qualities when viewed through the categories of the mind. I've also clarified why trying to resolve this through mental categorization is impossible and pointless. I don't care if anyone agrees with me; the fact that you find this unacceptable isn't my problem. So stop badgering me about it and instead present some actual 😁 "arguments and evidence" for why you think it's real. I've already explained why being a slave to mental categories is a dead end and why debating them is futile, and I've noted that the only way to resolve the question is through direct insight

yet, you still haven't defined what mental concepts actually are
(nor have you provided any proof to support your claims that I'm "detached from reality," that I'm "drawing wrong conclusions," or that I'm "slaving to dogmas"—it honestly looks like you've just decided that's how it is)

Ultimately, you don't even know how to hold a basic debate because you lack the necessary tools. You're hollow, aimless, and seemingly lacking the cognitive capacity for this
your persistent whining about "arguments and evidence" is getting ridiculous.😬 , and there isn't a single trace of anything like that in the entire history of your senseless, frustrated little forum posts

Now, go ahead—say it out loud three times to yourself;

'Existence and non-existence are not mental concepts.'
'Existence and non-existence are not mental concepts.'
'Existence and non-existence are not mental concepts.'

Then, try to notice the impression that leaves on you (if there's even any sense left to feel)

Does that statement have any actual grounding, or does it just exist within your exhausted mind?

See, that’s the thing—all your so-called "evidence" and "arguments" feel just as hollow as your constant, stubborn insistence on using them.

For every single one of your "proofs," anyone could spend sixty seconds on Google and find thousands of counter-points and rebuttals.

You're nonsensical—honestly, you're even more nonsensical than Zachary Cox69, and you're easily the most nonsensical person here when it comes to this "reasoned debate" you keep trying to force...

Keep up the insults and the usual lack of class.

Also, I can see you're struggling to keep up, so I’m gonna paste some of my original points and questions again, but this time I’ll **bold** them for you.

You could reach that conclusion pretty easily if you actually used some basic logic, looked at things through an objective scientific lens, or even dove into philosophical methods—hell, even spiritual insights (like what Buddha realized) would get you there. But, like you said, you claim you arrived at this "final" conclusion all on your own, even though you're basically just parroting someone else's dogmas... And honestly, whether these conclusions are yours or someone else's doesn't even matter that much; plenty of other people have already tried to break down this topic. Plus, since you believe everything is just an illusion, then by your own logic, you and everything you're saying are also just illusions. You're basically debunking yourself and your own arguments because you're claiming nothing is real—including the words coming out of your mouth (assuming you're pushing that Advaita Vedanta/Shankara interpretation of Maya that I've noticed you're leaning into). Why would anyone listen to the illusory rambling of an illusory figure who, by your own admission, doesn't even exist? It's not real, so why would his words be real? Or do you only notice contradictions when you're arguing that the universe isn't real? And why on earth would Brahman bother creating some pointless illusion like the universe and everything in it, where everything is fake and unreal? Where does Maya come from in your version of the story? You haven't even touched on the heavy hitters here. You're mixing up fundamental philosophical concepts like relativity, the Absolute, reality, and illusion—which is pretty obvious looking at your thread about how the universe is an illusion.

Earlier in our chats, people pointed you toward specific teachings and systems that tear down these philosophical dogmas regarding the unreality of the universe, providing solid philosophical frameworks, but you just ignored them and stuck to your guns. People even suggested books if you actually wanted to do some homework and see what's what. Science is a whole different beast, too. There's a huge difference between believing in something—which, hey, you're totally free to do—and trying to argue a point using clear analysis, reliable sources, philosophy, or scientific evidence. This whole thread of yours is just rambling, to put it lightly, and it falls apart under major philosophical criticisms that are well-known in both Eastern and Western traditions. Philosophy isn't some new thing, and neither is philosophical critique. Right now, most of what you say is based on pure belief and your own limited take, while you completely ignore other critiques and systems that might explain things way better than the books you've picked out and decided to follow blindly.


Another issue here, which was already mentioned, is your ego trip where you've convinced yourself you *are* the Absolute/Brahman (maybe you're reading way too much Nisargadatta 😁). Based on that dogmatic and flawed understanding of the Absolute, you make claims like the universe isn't real, or that it's both real and not real at the same time, or that reality depends on your subjectivity or someone else's. In reality, it's just your own subjectivity driving the bus.
Paul Rogers94 said:So, our local scholar here doesn't even grasp what a mental concept is, yet he wants to lead these "high-minded" debates... honestly, you don't need to be Buddha or Christ to see through that.🤣

Seriously, what are you even talking about? Where are you getting this from? It’s just your typical post where you throw out random conclusions without any actual evidence, totally disconnected from reality. Honestly, you're the one claiming the world isn't real, or that it's both real and unreal at the same time—just pick a side already! Either way, nothing seems truly real to you. Even at your best, you're just stuck in this dogmatic loop about how things "must" work. You clearly don't get basic concepts like the difference between an objective bottle of wine and your own mental idea of one. You seem to think a bottle of wine only becomes what it is once it hits your mind as an idea, but that's just not how it works. A bottle of wine exists objectively regardless of whether you perceive it or have some subjective concept of it floating around in your head.

Paul Rogers94 said:So, our local scholar here doesn't even grasp what a mental concept is, yet he wants to lead these "high-minded" debates... honestly, you don't need to be Buddha or Christ to see through that.🤣

You still think I’m the one who doesn't get what mental concepts actually are? Seriously? 🤣
lonestag15 said:Look, my own experience is just proof to *me*... it’s not "science"... but it aligns perfectly with what tons of other people are reporting. To me, personally, it's 100% legit because their accounts match mine word for word. That's actually why I even started practicing this stuff—because just reading the theory wasn't cutting it for me.

And if we're talking actual science (and I’ve told you this three times now), drawing a conclusion based on patterns—like looking at groups of people who practice Kundalini Yoga—and seeing similar symptoms across those samples... that's standard scientific procedure. Following that logic, the conclusion ends up being pretty damn accurate.

Here's a textbook example: take 3,000 sick patients and split them into three groups of 1,000. Give one group a placebo, another Drug X, and a third Drug Y, then compare the results... you'll get a pretty solid conclusion about how effective Drug X or Y really is compared to the placebo (natural recovery).

And again, if that isn't enough for you, there are concrete measurements taken by experts in their respective fields. Coming from an electrical engineering background, I know which studies exist. Now, I don't know if biology can precisely measure dopamine levels... though practice shows that dopamine spikes in practitioners, and those effects can be neutralized by blocking dopamine receptors (using antipsychotics)... whether you can pinpoint the exact dopamine level through measurement, I honestly don't know...

First off, if we're talking about mainstream science, there's no such thing as "Kundalini rising." Not even close. And those symptoms you're talking about? Science doesn't explain them away by calling it "Kundalini."

lonestag15 said:Look, my own experience is just proof to *me*... it’s not "science"... but it aligns perfectly with what tons of other people are reporting. To me, personally, it's 100% legit because their accounts match mine word for word. That's actually why I even started practicing this stuff—because just reading the theory wasn't cutting it for me.

And if we're talking actual science (and I’ve told you this three times now), drawing a conclusion based on patterns—like looking at groups of people who practice Kundalini Yoga—and seeing similar symptoms across those samples... that's standard scientific procedure. Following that logic, the conclusion ends up being pretty damn accurate.

Here's a textbook example: take 3,000 sick patients and split them into three groups of 1,000. Give one group a placebo, another Drug X, and a third Drug Y, then compare the results... you'll get a pretty solid conclusion about how effective Drug X or Y really is compared to the placebo (natural recovery).

And again, if that isn't enough for you, there are concrete measurements taken by experts in their respective fields. Coming from an electrical engineering background, I know which studies exist. Now, I don't know if biology can precisely measure dopamine levels... though practice shows that dopamine spikes in practitioners, and those effects can be neutralized by blocking dopamine receptors (using antipsychotics)... whether you can pinpoint the exact dopamine level through measurement, I honestly don't know...

It’s not even about whether you can measure dopamine or not. The point is, you shouldn't just jump to conclusions and link all those random things to "Kundalini rising." That's exactly what you're doing, and it's why you've wandered way too far from actual science. Plenty of different practices can mess with your endocrine system and hormone secretion (I have no idea why you're so hung up on dopamine specifically), just like psychedelics, psychoactive substances, and a whole bunch of other stuff.
lonestag15 said:Look, we’re talking about Eastern practices here. I specifically started diving into the dangers of rising Kundalini... and I brought plenty of solid arguments and evidence to the table... but you just brushed off everyone's personal accounts (including mine), which is ridiculous. I already told you that those testimonials hold weight—you look at a specific sample size and the frequency of certain symptoms, and you get perfectly valid conclusions. In fact, I thought it would be enough if I just laid out my own direct results from practicing, since I have zero reason to lie about it anyway.

But whatever, you rejected those too, along with everyone else's stories... fine by me... we can stick strictly to the "science" then... leave all the metaphysics out of it.

I even laid out a theory based on electrical principles and pointed to existing research and measurements that prove the actual physical effects on practitioners... so, game over. Especially since you're playing the skeptic, yet I answered you using nothing but pure science...

If you actually have something useful to say about it, feel free to jump in.

So, in your book, just your own personal experience and whatever stories other people tell you count as "scientific evidence" and valid conclusions?
Paul Rogers94 said:You don't understand anything. If you want to decide whether the universe is real or unreal, you could pick any argument from the greatest saints or holy texts and find something to support your side—they are inherently contradictory on this point (Brahman alone is real, the universe is unreal, Brahman is Universe. Bhagavad Gita). The internet is flooded with "high-quality" debates on this topic, and they're all increasingly misses. You can Google hundreds of "proofs and arguments" claiming the physical universe is real, just as I can Google thousands of "proofs and arguments" claiming it isn't—then you can go ahead and Google ten thousand more to prove it's real again... it's like a dog chasing its own tail. Any debate on this, no matter which direction it goes, is fundamentally mindless and empty.

What I am asserting is that "real" and "unreal" are merely mental categories. You won't resolve a single metaphysical question through mere conceptualization—which is why I say it is neither real nor unreal, a point I am already explaining in the dedicated thread. My claim is that this question can only be resolved through direct insight, which ultimately transcends mental categories altogether.

I haven't received a single coherent critique or thoughtful reflection regarding my position—just arrogant, psychopathic trash-talking.

I’m telling you, the arguments for that kind of thing just aren't there. It doesn't hold water.

Paul Rogers94 said:You don't understand anything. If you want to decide whether the universe is real or unreal, you could pick any argument from the greatest saints or holy texts and find something to support your side—they are inherently contradictory on this point (Brahman alone is real, the universe is unreal, Brahman is Universe. Bhagavad Gita). The internet is flooded with "high-quality" debates on this topic, and they're all increasingly misses. You can Google hundreds of "proofs and arguments" claiming the physical universe is real, just as I can Google thousands of "proofs and arguments" claiming it isn't—then you can go ahead and Google ten thousand more to prove it's real again... it's like a dog chasing its own tail. Any debate on this, no matter which direction it goes, is fundamentally mindless and empty.

What I am asserting is that "real" and "unreal" are merely mental categories. You won't resolve a single metaphysical question through mere conceptualization—which is why I say it is neither real nor unreal, a point I am already explaining in the dedicated thread. My claim is that this question can only be resolved through direct insight, which ultimately transcends mental categories altogether.

I haven't received a single coherent critique or thoughtful reflection regarding my position—just arrogant, psychopathic trash-talking.

Every system's got its own set of dogmas they cling to. Honestly, I'm not even surprised. It's just how things work.

Paul Rogers94 said:You don't understand anything. If you want to decide whether the universe is real or unreal, you could pick any argument from the greatest saints or holy texts and find something to support your side—they are inherently contradictory on this point (Brahman alone is real, the universe is unreal, Brahman is Universe. Bhagavad Gita). The internet is flooded with "high-quality" debates on this topic, and they're all increasingly misses. You can Google hundreds of "proofs and arguments" claiming the physical universe is real, just as I can Google thousands of "proofs and arguments" claiming it isn't—then you can go ahead and Google ten thousand more to prove it's real again... it's like a dog chasing its own tail. Any debate on this, no matter which direction it goes, is fundamentally mindless and empty.

What I am asserting is that "real" and "unreal" are merely mental categories. You won't resolve a single metaphysical question through mere conceptualization—which is why I say it is neither real nor unreal, a point I am already explaining in the dedicated thread. My claim is that this question can only be resolved through direct insight, which ultimately transcends mental categories altogether.

I haven't received a single coherent critique or thoughtful reflection regarding my position—just arrogant, psychopathic trash-talking.

Forget all that metaphysics stuff for a second. Let’s just start with basic physics.

Paul Rogers94 said:You don't understand anything. If you want to decide whether the universe is real or unreal, you could pick any argument from the greatest saints or holy texts and find something to support your side—they are inherently contradictory on this point (Brahman alone is real, the universe is unreal, Brahman is Universe. Bhagavad Gita). The internet is flooded with "high-quality" debates on this topic, and they're all increasingly misses. You can Google hundreds of "proofs and arguments" claiming the physical universe is real, just as I can Google thousands of "proofs and arguments" claiming it isn't—then you can go ahead and Google ten thousand more to prove it's real again... it's like a dog chasing its own tail. Any debate on this, no matter which direction it goes, is fundamentally mindless and empty.

What I am asserting is that "real" and "unreal" are merely mental categories. You won't resolve a single metaphysical question through mere conceptualization—which is why I say it is neither real nor unreal, a point I am already explaining in the dedicated thread. My claim is that this question can only be resolved through direct insight, which ultimately transcends mental categories altogether.

I haven't received a single coherent critique or thoughtful reflection regarding my position—just arrogant, psychopathic trash-talking.

Man, you're just delusional. Even the people over there told you that you're tripping, acting like you're some kind of God trying to explain everything from that viewpoint, but it's honestly just not working. You’re just a human being. Your mind and your body are products of this universe and exist within it—you're relative. There's zero point in trying to speak from the perspective of the Absolute. Maybe certain figures like Buddha had some sort of insight into the Absolute, but that's about it.

Paul Rogers94 said:You don't understand anything. If you want to decide whether the universe is real or unreal, you could pick any argument from the greatest saints or holy texts and find something to support your side—they are inherently contradictory on this point (Brahman alone is real, the universe is unreal, Brahman is Universe. Bhagavad Gita). The internet is flooded with "high-quality" debates on this topic, and they're all increasingly misses. You can Google hundreds of "proofs and arguments" claiming the physical universe is real, just as I can Google thousands of "proofs and arguments" claiming it isn't—then you can go ahead and Google ten thousand more to prove it's real again... it's like a dog chasing its own tail. Any debate on this, no matter which direction it goes, is fundamentally mindless and empty.

What I am asserting is that "real" and "unreal" are merely mental categories. You won't resolve a single metaphysical question through mere conceptualization—which is why I say it is neither real nor unreal, a point I am already explaining in the dedicated thread. My claim is that this question can only be resolved through direct insight, which ultimately transcends mental categories altogether.

I haven't received a single coherent critique or thoughtful reflection regarding my position—just arrogant, psychopathic trash-talking.

Don't make me go through the hassle of copying my post for a third time. This time, just do me a favor and actually bold the main arguments. And seriously, highlight those core questions I asked you—the ones that basically tear your whole theory apart.
lonestag15 said:Look, I already said I wasn't the one who actually coined that term or started that specific center... anyway, it’s not really about nitpicking over the vocabulary—it's about the actual understanding of what's going on here (and we both know exactly what I mean)...

I told you I’d hit you up once I finally got a hold of him...

Your posts have this way of throwing people off balance—just a little bit, but it’s definitely happening... And I'm saying that as an outsider just watching your back-and-forth exchange with that guy earlier. If you actually want to have a constructive conversation, you might want to take the criticism to heart...

Look, I could sit here and type for a hundred days straight and I still wouldn't be able to prove to you that these symptoms are actually happening—mostly because you just keep trying to link everything back to UFOs (again)... Seriously. Fine, I’m dropping the subjective arguments if that's what it takes, but let me remind you one more time: this kind of approach is perfectly scientific and respected... plenty of major research studies are conducted using the exact same logic of sampling, percentages, and conclusions...

Yeah, so this is what you call "projection" when I’m the one doing the psychoanalyzing—according to you. After you went ahead and wrote that a character is mentally unstable just because they take psychedelics? That is some top-tier projection and hypocrisy right there. It isn't even close to being "quasi"—you can see it from a mile away... And then you have the nerve to tell me to go study the forum rules when you don't even follow them yourself. I analyze because I need to know exactly who I'm dealing with on the other side—I'm not out here playing pretend...

So I told you straight up—biology isn't really my lane—but you just go ahead and chop my post down to that one little phrase, quote it back at me, and then decide to comment on... that? Seriously...

What can you tell? Is it obvious that biology isn't exactly my specialty?...
I told you straight up I wasn't going to write anything on that front—mostly so you wouldn't have any excuse to tear my arguments apart or butcher the post... so what was that you just did, slicing it all up again?
So, come on then—what kind of work do you actually do...?

Look, I wrote that from a purely technical standpoint—you know, looking at it through an electrical engineering lens—because that’s my lane and I actually get how the circuitry works. As for the rest of it... yeah, I get the biological and psychological side of things too, but I decided to keep my mouth shut. I didn't feel like giving you any ammunition just so you could go hunting for a needle in a haystack if I tripped up even slightly...

I mean, sure, maybe not—but honestly, staying open to different perspectives and actual evidence is always a better move... I laid out my theory and even pointed to existing research, like EEG studies—you know, the stuff Dr. Miller does measuring brain wave shifts in long-term meditators. The whole point of those readings is that the change in brain waves is real. Once you drop down into those lower, subconscious frequencies, you’re basically at the mercy of your own subconscious... and if that thing isn't in order, it'll tear a practitioner apart in a heartbeat...

Lack of arguments?
Lack of evidence?
Lack of any actual deep discussion?

I’m providing the arguments, the evidence, AND the deep dive right here...
But I guess for "certain people," this is all just playing games... if you've got something to say, just say it straight to me...

What does "by every standard they're just believers" actually mean? (You basically accused every believer of something without even explaining what...)
How exactly are you "spiritual" while they aren't?

And again, "many of them"—more dancing around the point... if you've got something, tell me directly. I prefer that over this polite skipping around like it's a game of chess. We aren't politicians...

Well, you're having a "decent debate" right now...

Nothing like that on my end—I don't subscribe to dogmas, everything is up for questioning... and we aren't even talking about dogmas yet.

And regarding this whole thing about getting emotional when being attacked (which I've mentioned in another thread)—do you know what it means to love your own views while respecting others?

Look, I have plenty of criticisms regarding believers too (hypocrisy is number one, obviously)... but I don't go out of my way to attack people with that specific mission. Criticizing someone's lack of religiosity just insults the person. Dogma is a choice, and you can't argue with taste. Believing in dogmas is literally a matter of choice—you see the logical gaps... and from there, you choose whether to believe or not... you always have the option to just walk away from someone like that.

I see you're still sticking to your guns with that style of yours... Have you actually gone down the rabbit hole and checked out his other threads? Some of them are even more unhinged than this one.

lonestag15 said:Look, I already said I wasn't the one who actually coined that term or started that specific center... anyway, it’s not really about nitpicking over the vocabulary—it's about the actual understanding of what's going on here (and we both know exactly what I mean)...

I told you I’d hit you up once I finally got a hold of him...

Your posts have this way of throwing people off balance—just a little bit, but it’s definitely happening... And I'm saying that as an outsider just watching your back-and-forth exchange with that guy earlier. If you actually want to have a constructive conversation, you might want to take the criticism to heart...

Look, I could sit here and type for a hundred days straight and I still wouldn't be able to prove to you that these symptoms are actually happening—mostly because you just keep trying to link everything back to UFOs (again)... Seriously. Fine, I’m dropping the subjective arguments if that's what it takes, but let me remind you one more time: this kind of approach is perfectly scientific and respected... plenty of major research studies are conducted using the exact same logic of sampling, percentages, and conclusions...

Yeah, so this is what you call "projection" when I’m the one doing the psychoanalyzing—according to you. After you went ahead and wrote that a character is mentally unstable just because they take psychedelics? That is some top-tier projection and hypocrisy right there. It isn't even close to being "quasi"—you can see it from a mile away... And then you have the nerve to tell me to go study the forum rules when you don't even follow them yourself. I analyze because I need to know exactly who I'm dealing with on the other side—I'm not out here playing pretend...

So I told you straight up—biology isn't really my lane—but you just go ahead and chop my post down to that one little phrase, quote it back at me, and then decide to comment on... that? Seriously...

What can you tell? Is it obvious that biology isn't exactly my specialty?...
I told you straight up I wasn't going to write anything on that front—mostly so you wouldn't have any excuse to tear my arguments apart or butcher the post... so what was that you just did, slicing it all up again?
So, come on then—what kind of work do you actually do...?

Look, I wrote that from a purely technical standpoint—you know, looking at it through an electrical engineering lens—because that’s my lane and I actually get how the circuitry works. As for the rest of it... yeah, I get the biological and psychological side of things too, but I decided to keep my mouth shut. I didn't feel like giving you any ammunition just so you could go hunting for a needle in a haystack if I tripped up even slightly...

I mean, sure, maybe not—but honestly, staying open to different perspectives and actual evidence is always a better move... I laid out my theory and even pointed to existing research, like EEG studies—you know, the stuff Dr. Miller does measuring brain wave shifts in long-term meditators. The whole point of those readings is that the change in brain waves is real. Once you drop down into those lower, subconscious frequencies, you’re basically at the mercy of your own subconscious... and if that thing isn't in order, it'll tear a practitioner apart in a heartbeat...

Lack of arguments?
Lack of evidence?
Lack of any actual deep discussion?

I’m providing the arguments, the evidence, AND the deep dive right here...
But I guess for "certain people," this is all just playing games... if you've got something to say, just say it straight to me...

What does "by every standard they're just believers" actually mean? (You basically accused every believer of something without even explaining what...)
How exactly are you "spiritual" while they aren't?

And again, "many of them"—more dancing around the point... if you've got something, tell me directly. I prefer that over this polite skipping around like it's a game of chess. We aren't politicians...

Well, you're having a "decent debate" right now...

Nothing like that on my end—I don't subscribe to dogmas, everything is up for questioning... and we aren't even talking about dogmas yet.

And regarding this whole thing about getting emotional when being attacked (which I've mentioned in another thread)—do you know what it means to love your own views while respecting others?

Look, I have plenty of criticisms regarding believers too (hypocrisy is number one, obviously)... but I don't go out of my way to attack people with that specific mission. Criticizing someone's lack of religiosity just insults the person. Dogma is a choice, and you can't argue with taste. Believing in dogmas is literally a matter of choice—you see the logical gaps... and from there, you choose whether to believe or not... you always have the option to just walk away from someone like that.

Check this out:

lonestag15 said:Look, I already said I wasn't the one who actually coined that term or started that specific center... anyway, it’s not really about nitpicking over the vocabulary—it's about the actual understanding of what's going on here (and we both know exactly what I mean)...

I told you I’d hit you up once I finally got a hold of him...

Your posts have this way of throwing people off balance—just a little bit, but it’s definitely happening... And I'm saying that as an outsider just watching your back-and-forth exchange with that guy earlier. If you actually want to have a constructive conversation, you might want to take the criticism to heart...

Look, I could sit here and type for a hundred days straight and I still wouldn't be able to prove to you that these symptoms are actually happening—mostly because you just keep trying to link everything back to UFOs (again)... Seriously. Fine, I’m dropping the subjective arguments if that's what it takes, but let me remind you one more time: this kind of approach is perfectly scientific and respected... plenty of major research studies are conducted using the exact same logic of sampling, percentages, and conclusions...

Yeah, so this is what you call "projection" when I’m the one doing the psychoanalyzing—according to you. After you went ahead and wrote that a character is mentally unstable just because they take psychedelics? That is some top-tier projection and hypocrisy right there. It isn't even close to being "quasi"—you can see it from a mile away... And then you have the nerve to tell me to go study the forum rules when you don't even follow them yourself. I analyze because I need to know exactly who I'm dealing with on the other side—I'm not out here playing pretend...

So I told you straight up—biology isn't really my lane—but you just go ahead and chop my post down to that one little phrase, quote it back at me, and then decide to comment on... that? Seriously...

What can you tell? Is it obvious that biology isn't exactly my specialty?...
I told you straight up I wasn't going to write anything on that front—mostly so you wouldn't have any excuse to tear my arguments apart or butcher the post... so what was that you just did, slicing it all up again?
So, come on then—what kind of work do you actually do...?

Look, I wrote that from a purely technical standpoint—you know, looking at it through an electrical engineering lens—because that’s my lane and I actually get how the circuitry works. As for the rest of it... yeah, I get the biological and psychological side of things too, but I decided to keep my mouth shut. I didn't feel like giving you any ammunition just so you could go hunting for a needle in a haystack if I tripped up even slightly...

I mean, sure, maybe not—but honestly, staying open to different perspectives and actual evidence is always a better move... I laid out my theory and even pointed to existing research, like EEG studies—you know, the stuff Dr. Miller does measuring brain wave shifts in long-term meditators. The whole point of those readings is that the change in brain waves is real. Once you drop down into those lower, subconscious frequencies, you’re basically at the mercy of your own subconscious... and if that thing isn't in order, it'll tear a practitioner apart in a heartbeat...

Lack of arguments?
Lack of evidence?
Lack of any actual deep discussion?

I’m providing the arguments, the evidence, AND the deep dive right here...
But I guess for "certain people," this is all just playing games... if you've got something to say, just say it straight to me...

What does "by every standard they're just believers" actually mean? (You basically accused every believer of something without even explaining what...)
How exactly are you "spiritual" while they aren't?

And again, "many of them"—more dancing around the point... if you've got something, tell me directly. I prefer that over this polite skipping around like it's a game of chess. We aren't politicians...

Well, you're having a "decent debate" right now...

Nothing like that on my end—I don't subscribe to dogmas, everything is up for questioning... and we aren't even talking about dogmas yet.

And regarding this whole thing about getting emotional when being attacked (which I've mentioned in another thread)—do you know what it means to love your own views while respecting others?

Look, I have plenty of criticisms regarding believers too (hypocrisy is number one, obviously)... but I don't go out of my way to attack people with that specific mission. Criticizing someone's lack of religiosity just insults the person. Dogma is a choice, and you can't argue with taste. Believing in dogmas is literally a matter of choice—you see the logical gaps... and from there, you choose whether to believe or not... you always have the option to just walk away from someone like that.

lonestag15 said:Look, I already said I wasn't the one who actually coined that term or started that specific center... anyway, it’s not really about nitpicking over the vocabulary—it's about the actual understanding of what's going on here (and we both know exactly what I mean)...

I told you I’d hit you up once I finally got a hold of him...

Your posts have this way of throwing people off balance—just a little bit, but it’s definitely happening... And I'm saying that as an outsider just watching your back-and-forth exchange with that guy earlier. If you actually want to have a constructive conversation, you might want to take the criticism to heart...

Look, I could sit here and type for a hundred days straight and I still wouldn't be able to prove to you that these symptoms are actually happening—mostly because you just keep trying to link everything back to UFOs (again)... Seriously. Fine, I’m dropping the subjective arguments if that's what it takes, but let me remind you one more time: this kind of approach is perfectly scientific and respected... plenty of major research studies are conducted using the exact same logic of sampling, percentages, and conclusions...

Yeah, so this is what you call "projection" when I’m the one doing the psychoanalyzing—according to you. After you went ahead and wrote that a character is mentally unstable just because they take psychedelics? That is some top-tier projection and hypocrisy right there. It isn't even close to being "quasi"—you can see it from a mile away... And then you have the nerve to tell me to go study the forum rules when you don't even follow them yourself. I analyze because I need to know exactly who I'm dealing with on the other side—I'm not out here playing pretend...

So I told you straight up—biology isn't really my lane—but you just go ahead and chop my post down to that one little phrase, quote it back at me, and then decide to comment on... that? Seriously...

What can you tell? Is it obvious that biology isn't exactly my specialty?...
I told you straight up I wasn't going to write anything on that front—mostly so you wouldn't have any excuse to tear my arguments apart or butcher the post... so what was that you just did, slicing it all up again?
So, come on then—what kind of work do you actually do...?

Look, I wrote that from a purely technical standpoint—you know, looking at it through an electrical engineering lens—because that’s my lane and I actually get how the circuitry works. As for the rest of it... yeah, I get the biological and psychological side of things too, but I decided to keep my mouth shut. I didn't feel like giving you any ammunition just so you could go hunting for a needle in a haystack if I tripped up even slightly...

I mean, sure, maybe not—but honestly, staying open to different perspectives and actual evidence is always a better move... I laid out my theory and even pointed to existing research, like EEG studies—you know, the stuff Dr. Miller does measuring brain wave shifts in long-term meditators. The whole point of those readings is that the change in brain waves is real. Once you drop down into those lower, subconscious frequencies, you’re basically at the mercy of your own subconscious... and if that thing isn't in order, it'll tear a practitioner apart in a heartbeat...

Lack of arguments?
Lack of evidence?
Lack of any actual deep discussion?

I’m providing the arguments, the evidence, AND the deep dive right here...
But I guess for "certain people," this is all just playing games... if you've got something to say, just say it straight to me...

What does "by every standard they're just believers" actually mean? (You basically accused every believer of something without even explaining what...)
How exactly are you "spiritual" while they aren't?

And again, "many of them"—more dancing around the point... if you've got something, tell me directly. I prefer that over this polite skipping around like it's a game of chess. We aren't politicians...

Well, you're having a "decent debate" right now...

Nothing like that on my end—I don't subscribe to dogmas, everything is up for questioning... and we aren't even talking about dogmas yet.

And regarding this whole thing about getting emotional when being attacked (which I've mentioned in another thread)—do you know what it means to love your own views while respecting others?

Look, I have plenty of criticisms regarding believers too (hypocrisy is number one, obviously)... but I don't go out of my way to attack people with that specific mission. Criticizing someone's lack of religiosity just insults the person. Dogma is a choice, and you can't argue with taste. Believing in dogmas is literally a matter of choice—you see the logical gaps... and from there, you choose whether to believe or not... you always have the option to just walk away from someone like that.

Look, you're really not reading what I wrote that closely. I didn't even mention anything about him being unstable because of those reasons or because he was messing around with psychedelics. Not once.

lonestag15 said:Look, I already said I wasn't the one who actually coined that term or started that specific center... anyway, it’s not really about nitpicking over the vocabulary—it's about the actual understanding of what's going on here (and we both know exactly what I mean)...

I told you I’d hit you up once I finally got a hold of him...

Your posts have this way of throwing people off balance—just a little bit, but it’s definitely happening... And I'm saying that as an outsider just watching your back-and-forth exchange with that guy earlier. If you actually want to have a constructive conversation, you might want to take the criticism to heart...

Look, I could sit here and type for a hundred days straight and I still wouldn't be able to prove to you that these symptoms are actually happening—mostly because you just keep trying to link everything back to UFOs (again)... Seriously. Fine, I’m dropping the subjective arguments if that's what it takes, but let me remind you one more time: this kind of approach is perfectly scientific and respected... plenty of major research studies are conducted using the exact same logic of sampling, percentages, and conclusions...

Yeah, so this is what you call "projection" when I’m the one doing the psychoanalyzing—according to you. After you went ahead and wrote that a character is mentally unstable just because they take psychedelics? That is some top-tier projection and hypocrisy right there. It isn't even close to being "quasi"—you can see it from a mile away... And then you have the nerve to tell me to go study the forum rules when you don't even follow them yourself. I analyze because I need to know exactly who I'm dealing with on the other side—I'm not out here playing pretend...

So I told you straight up—biology isn't really my lane—but you just go ahead and chop my post down to that one little phrase, quote it back at me, and then decide to comment on... that? Seriously...

What can you tell? Is it obvious that biology isn't exactly my specialty?...
I told you straight up I wasn't going to write anything on that front—mostly so you wouldn't have any excuse to tear my arguments apart or butcher the post... so what was that you just did, slicing it all up again?
So, come on then—what kind of work do you actually do...?

Look, I wrote that from a purely technical standpoint—you know, looking at it through an electrical engineering lens—because that’s my lane and I actually get how the circuitry works. As for the rest of it... yeah, I get the biological and psychological side of things too, but I decided to keep my mouth shut. I didn't feel like giving you any ammunition just so you could go hunting for a needle in a haystack if I tripped up even slightly...

I mean, sure, maybe not—but honestly, staying open to different perspectives and actual evidence is always a better move... I laid out my theory and even pointed to existing research, like EEG studies—you know, the stuff Dr. Miller does measuring brain wave shifts in long-term meditators. The whole point of those readings is that the change in brain waves is real. Once you drop down into those lower, subconscious frequencies, you’re basically at the mercy of your own subconscious... and if that thing isn't in order, it'll tear a practitioner apart in a heartbeat...

Lack of arguments?
Lack of evidence?
Lack of any actual deep discussion?

I’m providing the arguments, the evidence, AND the deep dive right here...
But I guess for "certain people," this is all just playing games... if you've got something to say, just say it straight to me...

What does "by every standard they're just believers" actually mean? (You basically accused every believer of something without even explaining what...)
How exactly are you "spiritual" while they aren't?

And again, "many of them"—more dancing around the point... if you've got something, tell me directly. I prefer that over this polite skipping around like it's a game of chess. We aren't politicians...

Well, you're having a "decent debate" right now...

Nothing like that on my end—I don't subscribe to dogmas, everything is up for questioning... and we aren't even talking about dogmas yet.

And regarding this whole thing about getting emotional when being attacked (which I've mentioned in another thread)—do you know what it means to love your own views while respecting others?

Look, I have plenty of criticisms regarding believers too (hypocrisy is number one, obviously)... but I don't go out of my way to attack people with that specific mission. Criticizing someone's lack of religiosity just insults the person. Dogma is a choice, and you can't argue with taste. Believing in dogmas is literally a matter of choice—you see the logical gaps... and from there, you choose whether to believe or not... you always have the option to just walk away from someone like that.

Man, you’re still out here trying to psychoanalyze everyone else in the thread. Seriously, how many posts is this now? And honestly, how many more of these are you planning to drop on us?

lonestag15 said:Look, I already said I wasn't the one who actually coined that term or started that specific center... anyway, it’s not really about nitpicking over the vocabulary—it's about the actual understanding of what's going on here (and we both know exactly what I mean)...

I told you I’d hit you up once I finally got a hold of him...

Your posts have this way of throwing people off balance—just a little bit, but it’s definitely happening... And I'm saying that as an outsider just watching your back-and-forth exchange with that guy earlier. If you actually want to have a constructive conversation, you might want to take the criticism to heart...

Look, I could sit here and type for a hundred days straight and I still wouldn't be able to prove to you that these symptoms are actually happening—mostly because you just keep trying to link everything back to UFOs (again)... Seriously. Fine, I’m dropping the subjective arguments if that's what it takes, but let me remind you one more time: this kind of approach is perfectly scientific and respected... plenty of major research studies are conducted using the exact same logic of sampling, percentages, and conclusions...

Yeah, so this is what you call "projection" when I’m the one doing the psychoanalyzing—according to you. After you went ahead and wrote that a character is mentally unstable just because they take psychedelics? That is some top-tier projection and hypocrisy right there. It isn't even close to being "quasi"—you can see it from a mile away... And then you have the nerve to tell me to go study the forum rules when you don't even follow them yourself. I analyze because I need to know exactly who I'm dealing with on the other side—I'm not out here playing pretend...

So I told you straight up—biology isn't really my lane—but you just go ahead and chop my post down to that one little phrase, quote it back at me, and then decide to comment on... that? Seriously...

What can you tell? Is it obvious that biology isn't exactly my specialty?...
I told you straight up I wasn't going to write anything on that front—mostly so you wouldn't have any excuse to tear my arguments apart or butcher the post... so what was that you just did, slicing it all up again?
So, come on then—what kind of work do you actually do...?

Look, I wrote that from a purely technical standpoint—you know, looking at it through an electrical engineering lens—because that’s my lane and I actually get how the circuitry works. As for the rest of it... yeah, I get the biological and psychological side of things too, but I decided to keep my mouth shut. I didn't feel like giving you any ammunition just so you could go hunting for a needle in a haystack if I tripped up even slightly...

I mean, sure, maybe not—but honestly, staying open to different perspectives and actual evidence is always a better move... I laid out my theory and even pointed to existing research, like EEG studies—you know, the stuff Dr. Miller does measuring brain wave shifts in long-term meditators. The whole point of those readings is that the change in brain waves is real. Once you drop down into those lower, subconscious frequencies, you’re basically at the mercy of your own subconscious... and if that thing isn't in order, it'll tear a practitioner apart in a heartbeat...

Lack of arguments?
Lack of evidence?
Lack of any actual deep discussion?

I’m providing the arguments, the evidence, AND the deep dive right here...
But I guess for "certain people," this is all just playing games... if you've got something to say, just say it straight to me...

What does "by every standard they're just believers" actually mean? (You basically accused every believer of something without even explaining what...)
How exactly are you "spiritual" while they aren't?

And again, "many of them"—more dancing around the point... if you've got something, tell me directly. I prefer that over this polite skipping around like it's a game of chess. We aren't politicians...

Well, you're having a "decent debate" right now...

Nothing like that on my end—I don't subscribe to dogmas, everything is up for questioning... and we aren't even talking about dogmas yet.

And regarding this whole thing about getting emotional when being attacked (which I've mentioned in another thread)—do you know what it means to love your own views while respecting others?

Look, I have plenty of criticisms regarding believers too (hypocrisy is number one, obviously)... but I don't go out of my way to attack people with that specific mission. Criticizing someone's lack of religiosity just insults the person. Dogma is a choice, and you can't argue with taste. Believing in dogmas is literally a matter of choice—you see the logical gaps... and from there, you choose whether to believe or not... you always have the option to just walk away from someone like that.

Like I already told you, doing that is clearly against the forum rules. Besides, you aren't even that good at analyzing stuff, and honestly, I don't care for your little pseudo-psychology sessions, whether they're aimed at me or anyone else.

lonestag15 said:Look, I already said I wasn't the one who actually coined that term or started that specific center... anyway, it’s not really about nitpicking over the vocabulary—it's about the actual understanding of what's going on here (and we both know exactly what I mean)...

I told you I’d hit you up once I finally got a hold of him...

Your posts have this way of throwing people off balance—just a little bit, but it’s definitely happening... And I'm saying that as an outsider just watching your back-and-forth exchange with that guy earlier. If you actually want to have a constructive conversation, you might want to take the criticism to heart...

Look, I could sit here and type for a hundred days straight and I still wouldn't be able to prove to you that these symptoms are actually happening—mostly because you just keep trying to link everything back to UFOs (again)... Seriously. Fine, I’m dropping the subjective arguments if that's what it takes, but let me remind you one more time: this kind of approach is perfectly scientific and respected... plenty of major research studies are conducted using the exact same logic of sampling, percentages, and conclusions...

Yeah, so this is what you call "projection" when I’m the one doing the psychoanalyzing—according to you. After you went ahead and wrote that a character is mentally unstable just because they take psychedelics? That is some top-tier projection and hypocrisy right there. It isn't even close to being "quasi"—you can see it from a mile away... And then you have the nerve to tell me to go study the forum rules when you don't even follow them yourself. I analyze because I need to know exactly who I'm dealing with on the other side—I'm not out here playing pretend...

So I told you straight up—biology isn't really my lane—but you just go ahead and chop my post down to that one little phrase, quote it back at me, and then decide to comment on... that? Seriously...

What can you tell? Is it obvious that biology isn't exactly my specialty?...
I told you straight up I wasn't going to write anything on that front—mostly so you wouldn't have any excuse to tear my arguments apart or butcher the post... so what was that you just did, slicing it all up again?
So, come on then—what kind of work do you actually do...?

Look, I wrote that from a purely technical standpoint—you know, looking at it through an electrical engineering lens—because that’s my lane and I actually get how the circuitry works. As for the rest of it... yeah, I get the biological and psychological side of things too, but I decided to keep my mouth shut. I didn't feel like giving you any ammunition just so you could go hunting for a needle in a haystack if I tripped up even slightly...

I mean, sure, maybe not—but honestly, staying open to different perspectives and actual evidence is always a better move... I laid out my theory and even pointed to existing research, like EEG studies—you know, the stuff Dr. Miller does measuring brain wave shifts in long-term meditators. The whole point of those readings is that the change in brain waves is real. Once you drop down into those lower, subconscious frequencies, you’re basically at the mercy of your own subconscious... and if that thing isn't in order, it'll tear a practitioner apart in a heartbeat...

Lack of arguments?
Lack of evidence?
Lack of any actual deep discussion?

I’m providing the arguments, the evidence, AND the deep dive right here...
But I guess for "certain people," this is all just playing games... if you've got something to say, just say it straight to me...

What does "by every standard they're just believers" actually mean? (You basically accused every believer of something without even explaining what...)
How exactly are you "spiritual" while they aren't?

And again, "many of them"—more dancing around the point... if you've got something, tell me directly. I prefer that over this polite skipping around like it's a game of chess. We aren't politicians...

Well, you're having a "decent debate" right now...

Nothing like that on my end—I don't subscribe to dogmas, everything is up for questioning... and we aren't even talking about dogmas yet.

And regarding this whole thing about getting emotional when being attacked (which I've mentioned in another thread)—do you know what it means to love your own views while respecting others?

Look, I have plenty of criticisms regarding believers too (hypocrisy is number one, obviously)... but I don't go out of my way to attack people with that specific mission. Criticizing someone's lack of religiosity just insults the person. Dogma is a choice, and you can't argue with taste. Believing in dogmas is literally a matter of choice—you see the logical gaps... and from there, you choose whether to believe or not... you always have the option to just walk away from someone like that.

Dude, seriously...

lonestag15 said:Look, I already said I wasn't the one who actually coined that term or started that specific center... anyway, it’s not really about nitpicking over the vocabulary—it's about the actual understanding of what's going on here (and we both know exactly what I mean)...

I told you I’d hit you up once I finally got a hold of him...

Your posts have this way of throwing people off balance—just a little bit, but it’s definitely happening... And I'm saying that as an outsider just watching your back-and-forth exchange with that guy earlier. If you actually want to have a constructive conversation, you might want to take the criticism to heart...

Look, I could sit here and type for a hundred days straight and I still wouldn't be able to prove to you that these symptoms are actually happening—mostly because you just keep trying to link everything back to UFOs (again)... Seriously. Fine, I’m dropping the subjective arguments if that's what it takes, but let me remind you one more time: this kind of approach is perfectly scientific and respected... plenty of major research studies are conducted using the exact same logic of sampling, percentages, and conclusions...

Yeah, so this is what you call "projection" when I’m the one doing the psychoanalyzing—according to you. After you went ahead and wrote that a character is mentally unstable just because they take psychedelics? That is some top-tier projection and hypocrisy right there. It isn't even close to being "quasi"—you can see it from a mile away... And then you have the nerve to tell me to go study the forum rules when you don't even follow them yourself. I analyze because I need to know exactly who I'm dealing with on the other side—I'm not out here playing pretend...

So I told you straight up—biology isn't really my lane—but you just go ahead and chop my post down to that one little phrase, quote it back at me, and then decide to comment on... that? Seriously...

What can you tell? Is it obvious that biology isn't exactly my specialty?...
I told you straight up I wasn't going to write anything on that front—mostly so you wouldn't have any excuse to tear my arguments apart or butcher the post... so what was that you just did, slicing it all up again?
So, come on then—what kind of work do you actually do...?

Look, I wrote that from a purely technical standpoint—you know, looking at it through an electrical engineering lens—because that’s my lane and I actually get how the circuitry works. As for the rest of it... yeah, I get the biological and psychological side of things too, but I decided to keep my mouth shut. I didn't feel like giving you any ammunition just so you could go hunting for a needle in a haystack if I tripped up even slightly...

I mean, sure, maybe not—but honestly, staying open to different perspectives and actual evidence is always a better move... I laid out my theory and even pointed to existing research, like EEG studies—you know, the stuff Dr. Miller does measuring brain wave shifts in long-term meditators. The whole point of those readings is that the change in brain waves is real. Once you drop down into those lower, subconscious frequencies, you’re basically at the mercy of your own subconscious... and if that thing isn't in order, it'll tear a practitioner apart in a heartbeat...

Lack of arguments?
Lack of evidence?
Lack of any actual deep discussion?

I’m providing the arguments, the evidence, AND the deep dive right here...
But I guess for "certain people," this is all just playing games... if you've got something to say, just say it straight to me...

What does "by every standard they're just believers" actually mean? (You basically accused every believer of something without even explaining what...)
How exactly are you "spiritual" while they aren't?

And again, "many of them"—more dancing around the point... if you've got something, tell me directly. I prefer that over this polite skipping around like it's a game of chess. We aren't politicians...

Well, you're having a "decent debate" right now...

Nothing like that on my end—I don't subscribe to dogmas, everything is up for questioning... and we aren't even talking about dogmas yet.

And regarding this whole thing about getting emotional when being attacked (which I've mentioned in another thread)—do you know what it means to love your own views while respecting others?

Look, I have plenty of criticisms regarding believers too (hypocrisy is number one, obviously)... but I don't go out of my way to attack people with that specific mission. Criticizing someone's lack of religiosity just insults the person. Dogma is a choice, and you can't argue with taste. Believing in dogmas is literally a matter of choice—you see the logical gaps... and from there, you choose whether to believe or not... you always have the option to just walk away from someone like that.

😁

lonestag15 said:Look, I already said I wasn't the one who actually coined that term or started that specific center... anyway, it’s not really about nitpicking over the vocabulary—it's about the actual understanding of what's going on here (and we both know exactly what I mean)...

I told you I’d hit you up once I finally got a hold of him...

Your posts have this way of throwing people off balance—just a little bit, but it’s definitely happening... And I'm saying that as an outsider just watching your back-and-forth exchange with that guy earlier. If you actually want to have a constructive conversation, you might want to take the criticism to heart...

Look, I could sit here and type for a hundred days straight and I still wouldn't be able to prove to you that these symptoms are actually happening—mostly because you just keep trying to link everything back to UFOs (again)... Seriously. Fine, I’m dropping the subjective arguments if that's what it takes, but let me remind you one more time: this kind of approach is perfectly scientific and respected... plenty of major research studies are conducted using the exact same logic of sampling, percentages, and conclusions...

Yeah, so this is what you call "projection" when I’m the one doing the psychoanalyzing—according to you. After you went ahead and wrote that a character is mentally unstable just because they take psychedelics? That is some top-tier projection and hypocrisy right there. It isn't even close to being "quasi"—you can see it from a mile away... And then you have the nerve to tell me to go study the forum rules when you don't even follow them yourself. I analyze because I need to know exactly who I'm dealing with on the other side—I'm not out here playing pretend...

So I told you straight up—biology isn't really my lane—but you just go ahead and chop my post down to that one little phrase, quote it back at me, and then decide to comment on... that? Seriously...

What can you tell? Is it obvious that biology isn't exactly my specialty?...
I told you straight up I wasn't going to write anything on that front—mostly so you wouldn't have any excuse to tear my arguments apart or butcher the post... so what was that you just did, slicing it all up again?
So, come on then—what kind of work do you actually do...?

Look, I wrote that from a purely technical standpoint—you know, looking at it through an electrical engineering lens—because that’s my lane and I actually get how the circuitry works. As for the rest of it... yeah, I get the biological and psychological side of things too, but I decided to keep my mouth shut. I didn't feel like giving you any ammunition just so you could go hunting for a needle in a haystack if I tripped up even slightly...

I mean, sure, maybe not—but honestly, staying open to different perspectives and actual evidence is always a better move... I laid out my theory and even pointed to existing research, like EEG studies—you know, the stuff Dr. Miller does measuring brain wave shifts in long-term meditators. The whole point of those readings is that the change in brain waves is real. Once you drop down into those lower, subconscious frequencies, you’re basically at the mercy of your own subconscious... and if that thing isn't in order, it'll tear a practitioner apart in a heartbeat...

Lack of arguments?
Lack of evidence?
Lack of any actual deep discussion?

I’m providing the arguments, the evidence, AND the deep dive right here...
But I guess for "certain people," this is all just playing games... if you've got something to say, just say it straight to me...

What does "by every standard they're just believers" actually mean? (You basically accused every believer of something without even explaining what...)
How exactly are you "spiritual" while they aren't?

And again, "many of them"—more dancing around the point... if you've got something, tell me directly. I prefer that over this polite skipping around like it's a game of chess. We aren't politicians...

Well, you're having a "decent debate" right now...

Nothing like that on my end—I don't subscribe to dogmas, everything is up for questioning... and we aren't even talking about dogmas yet.

And regarding this whole thing about getting emotional when being attacked (which I've mentioned in another thread)—do you know what it means to love your own views while respecting others?

Look, I have plenty of criticisms regarding believers too (hypocrisy is number one, obviously)... but I don't go out of my way to attack people with that specific mission. Criticizing someone's lack of religiosity just insults the person. Dogma is a choice, and you can't argue with taste. Believing in dogmas is literally a matter of choice—you see the logical gaps... and from there, you choose whether to believe or not... you always have the option to just walk away from someone like that.

I wasn't even talking about you specifically. You're always busy with your little psychoanalysis anyway—I can't even remember which post it was...

lonestag15 said:Look, I already said I wasn't the one who actually coined that term or started that specific center... anyway, it’s not really about nitpicking over the vocabulary—it's about the actual understanding of what's going on here (and we both know exactly what I mean)...

I told you I’d hit you up once I finally got a hold of him...

Your posts have this way of throwing people off balance—just a little bit, but it’s definitely happening... And I'm saying that as an outsider just watching your back-and-forth exchange with that guy earlier. If you actually want to have a constructive conversation, you might want to take the criticism to heart...

Look, I could sit here and type for a hundred days straight and I still wouldn't be able to prove to you that these symptoms are actually happening—mostly because you just keep trying to link everything back to UFOs (again)... Seriously. Fine, I’m dropping the subjective arguments if that's what it takes, but let me remind you one more time: this kind of approach is perfectly scientific and respected... plenty of major research studies are conducted using the exact same logic of sampling, percentages, and conclusions...

Yeah, so this is what you call "projection" when I’m the one doing the psychoanalyzing—according to you. After you went ahead and wrote that a character is mentally unstable just because they take psychedelics? That is some top-tier projection and hypocrisy right there. It isn't even close to being "quasi"—you can see it from a mile away... And then you have the nerve to tell me to go study the forum rules when you don't even follow them yourself. I analyze because I need to know exactly who I'm dealing with on the other side—I'm not out here playing pretend...

So I told you straight up—biology isn't really my lane—but you just go ahead and chop my post down to that one little phrase, quote it back at me, and then decide to comment on... that? Seriously...

What can you tell? Is it obvious that biology isn't exactly my specialty?...
I told you straight up I wasn't going to write anything on that front—mostly so you wouldn't have any excuse to tear my arguments apart or butcher the post... so what was that you just did, slicing it all up again?
So, come on then—what kind of work do you actually do...?

Look, I wrote that from a purely technical standpoint—you know, looking at it through an electrical engineering lens—because that’s my lane and I actually get how the circuitry works. As for the rest of it... yeah, I get the biological and psychological side of things too, but I decided to keep my mouth shut. I didn't feel like giving you any ammunition just so you could go hunting for a needle in a haystack if I tripped up even slightly...

I mean, sure, maybe not—but honestly, staying open to different perspectives and actual evidence is always a better move... I laid out my theory and even pointed to existing research, like EEG studies—you know, the stuff Dr. Miller does measuring brain wave shifts in long-term meditators. The whole point of those readings is that the change in brain waves is real. Once you drop down into those lower, subconscious frequencies, you’re basically at the mercy of your own subconscious... and if that thing isn't in order, it'll tear a practitioner apart in a heartbeat...

Lack of arguments?
Lack of evidence?
Lack of any actual deep discussion?

I’m providing the arguments, the evidence, AND the deep dive right here...
But I guess for "certain people," this is all just playing games... if you've got something to say, just say it straight to me...

What does "by every standard they're just believers" actually mean? (You basically accused every believer of something without even explaining what...)
How exactly are you "spiritual" while they aren't?

And again, "many of them"—more dancing around the point... if you've got something, tell me directly. I prefer that over this polite skipping around like it's a game of chess. We aren't politicians...

Well, you're having a "decent debate" right now...

Nothing like that on my end—I don't subscribe to dogmas, everything is up for questioning... and we aren't even talking about dogmas yet.

And regarding this whole thing about getting emotional when being attacked (which I've mentioned in another thread)—do you know what it means to love your own views while respecting others?

Look, I have plenty of criticisms regarding believers too (hypocrisy is number one, obviously)... but I don't go out of my way to attack people with that specific mission. Criticizing someone's lack of religiosity just insults the person. Dogma is a choice, and you can't argue with taste. Believing in dogmas is literally a matter of choice—you see the logical gaps... and from there, you choose whether to believe or not... you always have the option to just walk away from someone like that.

That they're swimming in dogma and don't have a logical or critical bone in their bodies.

lonestag15 said:Look, I already said I wasn't the one who actually coined that term or started that specific center... anyway, it’s not really about nitpicking over the vocabulary—it's about the actual understanding of what's going on here (and we both know exactly what I mean)...

I told you I’d hit you up once I finally got a hold of him...

Your posts have this way of throwing people off balance—just a little bit, but it’s definitely happening... And I'm saying that as an outsider just watching your back-and-forth exchange with that guy earlier. If you actually want to have a constructive conversation, you might want to take the criticism to heart...

Look, I could sit here and type for a hundred days straight and I still wouldn't be able to prove to you that these symptoms are actually happening—mostly because you just keep trying to link everything back to UFOs (again)... Seriously. Fine, I’m dropping the subjective arguments if that's what it takes, but let me remind you one more time: this kind of approach is perfectly scientific and respected... plenty of major research studies are conducted using the exact same logic of sampling, percentages, and conclusions...

Yeah, so this is what you call "projection" when I’m the one doing the psychoanalyzing—according to you. After you went ahead and wrote that a character is mentally unstable just because they take psychedelics? That is some top-tier projection and hypocrisy right there. It isn't even close to being "quasi"—you can see it from a mile away... And then you have the nerve to tell me to go study the forum rules when you don't even follow them yourself. I analyze because I need to know exactly who I'm dealing with on the other side—I'm not out here playing pretend...

So I told you straight up—biology isn't really my lane—but you just go ahead and chop my post down to that one little phrase, quote it back at me, and then decide to comment on... that? Seriously...

What can you tell? Is it obvious that biology isn't exactly my specialty?...
I told you straight up I wasn't going to write anything on that front—mostly so you wouldn't have any excuse to tear my arguments apart or butcher the post... so what was that you just did, slicing it all up again?
So, come on then—what kind of work do you actually do...?

Look, I wrote that from a purely technical standpoint—you know, looking at it through an electrical engineering lens—because that’s my lane and I actually get how the circuitry works. As for the rest of it... yeah, I get the biological and psychological side of things too, but I decided to keep my mouth shut. I didn't feel like giving you any ammunition just so you could go hunting for a needle in a haystack if I tripped up even slightly...

I mean, sure, maybe not—but honestly, staying open to different perspectives and actual evidence is always a better move... I laid out my theory and even pointed to existing research, like EEG studies—you know, the stuff Dr. Miller does measuring brain wave shifts in long-term meditators. The whole point of those readings is that the change in brain waves is real. Once you drop down into those lower, subconscious frequencies, you’re basically at the mercy of your own subconscious... and if that thing isn't in order, it'll tear a practitioner apart in a heartbeat...

Lack of arguments?
Lack of evidence?
Lack of any actual deep discussion?

I’m providing the arguments, the evidence, AND the deep dive right here...
But I guess for "certain people," this is all just playing games... if you've got something to say, just say it straight to me...

What does "by every standard they're just believers" actually mean? (You basically accused every believer of something without even explaining what...)
How exactly are you "spiritual" while they aren't?

And again, "many of them"—more dancing around the point... if you've got something, tell me directly. I prefer that over this polite skipping around like it's a game of chess. We aren't politicians...

Well, you're having a "decent debate" right now...

Nothing like that on my end—I don't subscribe to dogmas, everything is up for questioning... and we aren't even talking about dogmas yet.

And regarding this whole thing about getting emotional when being attacked (which I've mentioned in another thread)—do you know what it means to love your own views while respecting others?

Look, I have plenty of criticisms regarding believers too (hypocrisy is number one, obviously)... but I don't go out of my way to attack people with that specific mission. Criticizing someone's lack of religiosity just insults the person. Dogma is a choice, and you can't argue with taste. Believing in dogmas is literally a matter of choice—you see the logical gaps... and from there, you choose whether to believe or not... you always have the option to just walk away from someone like that.

Honestly, these little psychoanalysis attempts you throw at everyone else aren't actual discussions. It’s hard to take you seriously when you're constantly trying to play therapist instead of just talking.
lonestag15 said:And what are you even mocking me for, seriously? It’s just the topic at hand—the actual differences between Hindu practices and those Christian-style meditation routines. I mean, if someone drops "Kundalini yoga" in a conversation, do you really act like you have zero clue what they're talking about?...
Look, I’m really not interested in getting dragged into those low-level chess matches where everyone just tries to trash-talk or one-up each other...
And if I tell you I actually tried some Kundalini techniques and even described what happened next—it’s still going to hit that same wall of skepticism... because apparently, you somehow know what started happening to me after those practices better than I do myself... boo.

It’s not that I’m feeling discouraged or anything—I’m just straight-up disappointed by how closed-minded everyone is on this subforum... especially when the whole thing is literally called "spirituality."

Look, I laid out the facts regarding Kundalini rising and pointed to the massive amount of firsthand accounts from people who have actually lived through it... but you just had to compare them to UFO sightings like they’re some fringe conspiracy theory. It's the same old move—just another way to dismiss what all these people are experiencing. I even gave you my own personal experience—since I'm the only one who knows the truth of what happened to me—and yet you're still sitting there claiming it isn't "proof." So, what's the deal? Not even millions of people is enough for you? You've managed to brush off my own testimony, too... which, let's be real, is something only I can verify. Even the gurus themselves talk about the symptoms and go out of their way to warn about the dangers... so this isn't some fairy tale, it's... Just a fact...And that’s basically the whole point of this debate—if you aren't coming at this with an open mind and you're just acting like a total skeptic, nobody is ever going to prove anything to you... because, honestly, you just won't let them...

Look, even within the realm of science, that’s a solid proof... I mean, Freud followed those exact same paths when he was developing psychoanalysis. You just take a massive sample size of people—assuming they aren't lying about the whole thing, obviously—and there you go. That's your proof right there, whether it actually exists or not...

Basic etiquette involves not being a jerk... for instance, I’ll give you an example from this thread. I mention a friend from New York who happens to be a yoga instructor... then in your next post, you write allegedly my friend... so yeah, you’re doing that subtle little thing where you try to undermine people while acting all innocent.
It’s the same deal with mocking quotes... get it? Just get it...

You’ve got your own way of being passive-aggressive in gloves—staying defensive during a debate because that’s just how you feed. I’ve seen it in real life too; it’s hard for you to lose that condescending edge when that's just your whole vibe... sounds like something a politician would say, honestly.

Look, I'm going to lay this out objectively so you can't pull any context out of thin air. First, certain exercises cause actual chemical shifts (check that online, I'm not trying to misquote science here)

From the angle I get—the electrical side—first, regarding yoga: the spine is basically a direct extension of the brain through the spinal cord, and stretching it improves electrical conductivity. And the chemical changes are obvious, though I won't dive into that unless you want me to tear this post apart looking for errors since it's not my primary field.

Second, regarding Kundalini: the spine acts like a piezoelectric material. In short, when a material is under tension (like the vibration/stretching found in mantras), it generates extra electricity. Even our bones are piezoelectric... raising Kundalini triggers increased electrical activity in the brain (there are actually EEG studies on this).
The brain puts out about 20W of power, which depends on voltage and current. Any increase in those two components boosts the overall power. When you apply that to biological matter—which isn't exactly a 20W tungsten lightbulb—even a tiny electrical boost is noticeable. That's the current component...

Then there's the voltage component (potential difference), which is present in all visualization exercises. It’s the equivalent of calling upon the Holy Spirit or visualizing the crown chakra or the Kether from Kabbalistic theory. Whether that’s "objective" depends entirely on whether you believe in manipulating electricity. But the practice provides its own evidence...

And keep in mind, Kundalini is often interpreted as an energy that isn't strictly defined, so there's definitely a current component involved, as I explained. I could go on about the rest, but honestly, I don't have the energy...

You can look up what I wrote online, and if you want to mock it like you have before, go ahead... to you, it's just a fictional concept and it'll stay that way (regardless of the evidence or testimonies, mine or anyone else's... nothing is going to change your skeptical stance because you simply aren't interested)

As a spirituality subforum, we should actually be discussing these concepts and influences—like the effects of raising Kundalini—from both a scientific perspective and an experiential one (which is almost quasi-scientific). Because of all this skepticism and the sheer number of "spiritualists" with zero substance, this forum feels hauntingly empty.

I think I made my point pretty clear, including the fact that basically zero traditional, classic schools of yoga ever used those specific terms or names (and yeah, I mentioned Sivananda might have used it once or twice, but not in this context). Most of this is just New Age terminology at best, or just modern fluff. And don't even get me started on people rambling about Kundalini awakening practices when they haven't even mastered basic breathing or controlling their own minds. I asked you for the name of your "instructor's" school so we could figure out what's actually going on here...

lonestag15 said:And what are you even mocking me for, seriously? It’s just the topic at hand—the actual differences between Hindu practices and those Christian-style meditation routines. I mean, if someone drops "Kundalini yoga" in a conversation, do you really act like you have zero clue what they're talking about?...
Look, I’m really not interested in getting dragged into those low-level chess matches where everyone just tries to trash-talk or one-up each other...
And if I tell you I actually tried some Kundalini techniques and even described what happened next—it’s still going to hit that same wall of skepticism... because apparently, you somehow know what started happening to me after those practices better than I do myself... boo.

It’s not that I’m feeling discouraged or anything—I’m just straight-up disappointed by how closed-minded everyone is on this subforum... especially when the whole thing is literally called "spirituality."

Look, I laid out the facts regarding Kundalini rising and pointed to the massive amount of firsthand accounts from people who have actually lived through it... but you just had to compare them to UFO sightings like they’re some fringe conspiracy theory. It's the same old move—just another way to dismiss what all these people are experiencing. I even gave you my own personal experience—since I'm the only one who knows the truth of what happened to me—and yet you're still sitting there claiming it isn't "proof." So, what's the deal? Not even millions of people is enough for you? You've managed to brush off my own testimony, too... which, let's be real, is something only I can verify. Even the gurus themselves talk about the symptoms and go out of their way to warn about the dangers... so this isn't some fairy tale, it's... Just a fact...And that’s basically the whole point of this debate—if you aren't coming at this with an open mind and you're just acting like a total skeptic, nobody is ever going to prove anything to you... because, honestly, you just won't let them...

Look, even within the realm of science, that’s a solid proof... I mean, Freud followed those exact same paths when he was developing psychoanalysis. You just take a massive sample size of people—assuming they aren't lying about the whole thing, obviously—and there you go. That's your proof right there, whether it actually exists or not...

Basic etiquette involves not being a jerk... for instance, I’ll give you an example from this thread. I mention a friend from New York who happens to be a yoga instructor... then in your next post, you write allegedly my friend... so yeah, you’re doing that subtle little thing where you try to undermine people while acting all innocent.
It’s the same deal with mocking quotes... get it? Just get it...

You’ve got your own way of being passive-aggressive in gloves—staying defensive during a debate because that’s just how you feed. I’ve seen it in real life too; it’s hard for you to lose that condescending edge when that's just your whole vibe... sounds like something a politician would say, honestly.

Look, I'm going to lay this out objectively so you can't pull any context out of thin air. First, certain exercises cause actual chemical shifts (check that online, I'm not trying to misquote science here)

From the angle I get—the electrical side—first, regarding yoga: the spine is basically a direct extension of the brain through the spinal cord, and stretching it improves electrical conductivity. And the chemical changes are obvious, though I won't dive into that unless you want me to tear this post apart looking for errors since it's not my primary field.

Second, regarding Kundalini: the spine acts like a piezoelectric material. In short, when a material is under tension (like the vibration/stretching found in mantras), it generates extra electricity. Even our bones are piezoelectric... raising Kundalini triggers increased electrical activity in the brain (there are actually EEG studies on this).
The brain puts out about 20W of power, which depends on voltage and current. Any increase in those two components boosts the overall power. When you apply that to biological matter—which isn't exactly a 20W tungsten lightbulb—even a tiny electrical boost is noticeable. That's the current component...

Then there's the voltage component (potential difference), which is present in all visualization exercises. It’s the equivalent of calling upon the Holy Spirit or visualizing the crown chakra or the Kether from Kabbalistic theory. Whether that’s "objective" depends entirely on whether you believe in manipulating electricity. But the practice provides its own evidence...

And keep in mind, Kundalini is often interpreted as an energy that isn't strictly defined, so there's definitely a current component involved, as I explained. I could go on about the rest, but honestly, I don't have the energy...

You can look up what I wrote online, and if you want to mock it like you have before, go ahead... to you, it's just a fictional concept and it'll stay that way (regardless of the evidence or testimonies, mine or anyone else's... nothing is going to change your skeptical stance because you simply aren't interested)

As a spirituality subforum, we should actually be discussing these concepts and influences—like the effects of raising Kundalini—from both a scientific perspective and an experiential one (which is almost quasi-scientific). Because of all this skepticism and the sheer number of "spiritualists" with zero substance, this forum feels hauntingly empty.

So that makes you rude, insulting, and attacking other people?

lonestag15 said:And what are you even mocking me for, seriously? It’s just the topic at hand—the actual differences between Hindu practices and those Christian-style meditation routines. I mean, if someone drops "Kundalini yoga" in a conversation, do you really act like you have zero clue what they're talking about?...
Look, I’m really not interested in getting dragged into those low-level chess matches where everyone just tries to trash-talk or one-up each other...
And if I tell you I actually tried some Kundalini techniques and even described what happened next—it’s still going to hit that same wall of skepticism... because apparently, you somehow know what started happening to me after those practices better than I do myself... boo.

It’s not that I’m feeling discouraged or anything—I’m just straight-up disappointed by how closed-minded everyone is on this subforum... especially when the whole thing is literally called "spirituality."

Look, I laid out the facts regarding Kundalini rising and pointed to the massive amount of firsthand accounts from people who have actually lived through it... but you just had to compare them to UFO sightings like they’re some fringe conspiracy theory. It's the same old move—just another way to dismiss what all these people are experiencing. I even gave you my own personal experience—since I'm the only one who knows the truth of what happened to me—and yet you're still sitting there claiming it isn't "proof." So, what's the deal? Not even millions of people is enough for you? You've managed to brush off my own testimony, too... which, let's be real, is something only I can verify. Even the gurus themselves talk about the symptoms and go out of their way to warn about the dangers... so this isn't some fairy tale, it's... Just a fact...And that’s basically the whole point of this debate—if you aren't coming at this with an open mind and you're just acting like a total skeptic, nobody is ever going to prove anything to you... because, honestly, you just won't let them...

Look, even within the realm of science, that’s a solid proof... I mean, Freud followed those exact same paths when he was developing psychoanalysis. You just take a massive sample size of people—assuming they aren't lying about the whole thing, obviously—and there you go. That's your proof right there, whether it actually exists or not...

Basic etiquette involves not being a jerk... for instance, I’ll give you an example from this thread. I mention a friend from New York who happens to be a yoga instructor... then in your next post, you write allegedly my friend... so yeah, you’re doing that subtle little thing where you try to undermine people while acting all innocent.
It’s the same deal with mocking quotes... get it? Just get it...

You’ve got your own way of being passive-aggressive in gloves—staying defensive during a debate because that’s just how you feed. I’ve seen it in real life too; it’s hard for you to lose that condescending edge when that's just your whole vibe... sounds like something a politician would say, honestly.

Look, I'm going to lay this out objectively so you can't pull any context out of thin air. First, certain exercises cause actual chemical shifts (check that online, I'm not trying to misquote science here)

From the angle I get—the electrical side—first, regarding yoga: the spine is basically a direct extension of the brain through the spinal cord, and stretching it improves electrical conductivity. And the chemical changes are obvious, though I won't dive into that unless you want me to tear this post apart looking for errors since it's not my primary field.

Second, regarding Kundalini: the spine acts like a piezoelectric material. In short, when a material is under tension (like the vibration/stretching found in mantras), it generates extra electricity. Even our bones are piezoelectric... raising Kundalini triggers increased electrical activity in the brain (there are actually EEG studies on this).
The brain puts out about 20W of power, which depends on voltage and current. Any increase in those two components boosts the overall power. When you apply that to biological matter—which isn't exactly a 20W tungsten lightbulb—even a tiny electrical boost is noticeable. That's the current component...

Then there's the voltage component (potential difference), which is present in all visualization exercises. It’s the equivalent of calling upon the Holy Spirit or visualizing the crown chakra or the Kether from Kabbalistic theory. Whether that’s "objective" depends entirely on whether you believe in manipulating electricity. But the practice provides its own evidence...

And keep in mind, Kundalini is often interpreted as an energy that isn't strictly defined, so there's definitely a current component involved, as I explained. I could go on about the rest, but honestly, I don't have the energy...

You can look up what I wrote online, and if you want to mock it like you have before, go ahead... to you, it's just a fictional concept and it'll stay that way (regardless of the evidence or testimonies, mine or anyone else's... nothing is going to change your skeptical stance because you simply aren't interested)

As a spirituality subforum, we should actually be discussing these concepts and influences—like the effects of raising Kundalini—from both a scientific perspective and an experiential one (which is almost quasi-scientific). Because of all this skepticism and the sheer number of "spiritualists" with zero substance, this forum feels hauntingly empty.

We already talked about how flawed it is to interpret your own experiences without guidance—like how every Tom, Dick, and Harry tries to decode their visions based on some random dream a grandma had. There's way too much nonsense, dogma, and bad logic floating around, and we aren't here to validate that stuff. It’s the exact same deal with things like UFO sightings.

lonestag15 said:And what are you even mocking me for, seriously? It’s just the topic at hand—the actual differences between Hindu practices and those Christian-style meditation routines. I mean, if someone drops "Kundalini yoga" in a conversation, do you really act like you have zero clue what they're talking about?...
Look, I’m really not interested in getting dragged into those low-level chess matches where everyone just tries to trash-talk or one-up each other...
And if I tell you I actually tried some Kundalini techniques and even described what happened next—it’s still going to hit that same wall of skepticism... because apparently, you somehow know what started happening to me after those practices better than I do myself... boo.

It’s not that I’m feeling discouraged or anything—I’m just straight-up disappointed by how closed-minded everyone is on this subforum... especially when the whole thing is literally called "spirituality."

Look, I laid out the facts regarding Kundalini rising and pointed to the massive amount of firsthand accounts from people who have actually lived through it... but you just had to compare them to UFO sightings like they’re some fringe conspiracy theory. It's the same old move—just another way to dismiss what all these people are experiencing. I even gave you my own personal experience—since I'm the only one who knows the truth of what happened to me—and yet you're still sitting there claiming it isn't "proof." So, what's the deal? Not even millions of people is enough for you? You've managed to brush off my own testimony, too... which, let's be real, is something only I can verify. Even the gurus themselves talk about the symptoms and go out of their way to warn about the dangers... so this isn't some fairy tale, it's... Just a fact...And that’s basically the whole point of this debate—if you aren't coming at this with an open mind and you're just acting like a total skeptic, nobody is ever going to prove anything to you... because, honestly, you just won't let them...

Look, even within the realm of science, that’s a solid proof... I mean, Freud followed those exact same paths when he was developing psychoanalysis. You just take a massive sample size of people—assuming they aren't lying about the whole thing, obviously—and there you go. That's your proof right there, whether it actually exists or not...

Basic etiquette involves not being a jerk... for instance, I’ll give you an example from this thread. I mention a friend from New York who happens to be a yoga instructor... then in your next post, you write allegedly my friend... so yeah, you’re doing that subtle little thing where you try to undermine people while acting all innocent.
It’s the same deal with mocking quotes... get it? Just get it...

You’ve got your own way of being passive-aggressive in gloves—staying defensive during a debate because that’s just how you feed. I’ve seen it in real life too; it’s hard for you to lose that condescending edge when that's just your whole vibe... sounds like something a politician would say, honestly.

Look, I'm going to lay this out objectively so you can't pull any context out of thin air. First, certain exercises cause actual chemical shifts (check that online, I'm not trying to misquote science here)

From the angle I get—the electrical side—first, regarding yoga: the spine is basically a direct extension of the brain through the spinal cord, and stretching it improves electrical conductivity. And the chemical changes are obvious, though I won't dive into that unless you want me to tear this post apart looking for errors since it's not my primary field.

Second, regarding Kundalini: the spine acts like a piezoelectric material. In short, when a material is under tension (like the vibration/stretching found in mantras), it generates extra electricity. Even our bones are piezoelectric... raising Kundalini triggers increased electrical activity in the brain (there are actually EEG studies on this).
The brain puts out about 20W of power, which depends on voltage and current. Any increase in those two components boosts the overall power. When you apply that to biological matter—which isn't exactly a 20W tungsten lightbulb—even a tiny electrical boost is noticeable. That's the current component...

Then there's the voltage component (potential difference), which is present in all visualization exercises. It’s the equivalent of calling upon the Holy Spirit or visualizing the crown chakra or the Kether from Kabbalistic theory. Whether that’s "objective" depends entirely on whether you believe in manipulating electricity. But the practice provides its own evidence...

And keep in mind, Kundalini is often interpreted as an energy that isn't strictly defined, so there's definitely a current component involved, as I explained. I could go on about the rest, but honestly, I don't have the energy...

You can look up what I wrote online, and if you want to mock it like you have before, go ahead... to you, it's just a fictional concept and it'll stay that way (regardless of the evidence or testimonies, mine or anyone else's... nothing is going to change your skeptical stance because you simply aren't interested)

As a spirituality subforum, we should actually be discussing these concepts and influences—like the effects of raising Kundalini—from both a scientific perspective and an experiential one (which is almost quasi-scientific). Because of all this skepticism and the sheer number of "spiritualists" with zero substance, this forum feels hauntingly empty.

And there you go again, trying to pseudo-psychoanalyze everyone else. Maybe check the forum rules.

lonestag15 said:And what are you even mocking me for, seriously? It’s just the topic at hand—the actual differences between Hindu practices and those Christian-style meditation routines. I mean, if someone drops "Kundalini yoga" in a conversation, do you really act like you have zero clue what they're talking about?...
Look, I’m really not interested in getting dragged into those low-level chess matches where everyone just tries to trash-talk or one-up each other...
And if I tell you I actually tried some Kundalini techniques and even described what happened next—it’s still going to hit that same wall of skepticism... because apparently, you somehow know what started happening to me after those practices better than I do myself... boo.

It’s not that I’m feeling discouraged or anything—I’m just straight-up disappointed by how closed-minded everyone is on this subforum... especially when the whole thing is literally called "spirituality."

Look, I laid out the facts regarding Kundalini rising and pointed to the massive amount of firsthand accounts from people who have actually lived through it... but you just had to compare them to UFO sightings like they’re some fringe conspiracy theory. It's the same old move—just another way to dismiss what all these people are experiencing. I even gave you my own personal experience—since I'm the only one who knows the truth of what happened to me—and yet you're still sitting there claiming it isn't "proof." So, what's the deal? Not even millions of people is enough for you? You've managed to brush off my own testimony, too... which, let's be real, is something only I can verify. Even the gurus themselves talk about the symptoms and go out of their way to warn about the dangers... so this isn't some fairy tale, it's... Just a fact...And that’s basically the whole point of this debate—if you aren't coming at this with an open mind and you're just acting like a total skeptic, nobody is ever going to prove anything to you... because, honestly, you just won't let them...

Look, even within the realm of science, that’s a solid proof... I mean, Freud followed those exact same paths when he was developing psychoanalysis. You just take a massive sample size of people—assuming they aren't lying about the whole thing, obviously—and there you go. That's your proof right there, whether it actually exists or not...

Basic etiquette involves not being a jerk... for instance, I’ll give you an example from this thread. I mention a friend from New York who happens to be a yoga instructor... then in your next post, you write allegedly my friend... so yeah, you’re doing that subtle little thing where you try to undermine people while acting all innocent.
It’s the same deal with mocking quotes... get it? Just get it...

You’ve got your own way of being passive-aggressive in gloves—staying defensive during a debate because that’s just how you feed. I’ve seen it in real life too; it’s hard for you to lose that condescending edge when that's just your whole vibe... sounds like something a politician would say, honestly.

Look, I'm going to lay this out objectively so you can't pull any context out of thin air. First, certain exercises cause actual chemical shifts (check that online, I'm not trying to misquote science here)

From the angle I get—the electrical side—first, regarding yoga: the spine is basically a direct extension of the brain through the spinal cord, and stretching it improves electrical conductivity. And the chemical changes are obvious, though I won't dive into that unless you want me to tear this post apart looking for errors since it's not my primary field.

Second, regarding Kundalini: the spine acts like a piezoelectric material. In short, when a material is under tension (like the vibration/stretching found in mantras), it generates extra electricity. Even our bones are piezoelectric... raising Kundalini triggers increased electrical activity in the brain (there are actually EEG studies on this).
The brain puts out about 20W of power, which depends on voltage and current. Any increase in those two components boosts the overall power. When you apply that to biological matter—which isn't exactly a 20W tungsten lightbulb—even a tiny electrical boost is noticeable. That's the current component...

Then there's the voltage component (potential difference), which is present in all visualization exercises. It’s the equivalent of calling upon the Holy Spirit or visualizing the crown chakra or the Kether from Kabbalistic theory. Whether that’s "objective" depends entirely on whether you believe in manipulating electricity. But the practice provides its own evidence...

And keep in mind, Kundalini is often interpreted as an energy that isn't strictly defined, so there's definitely a current component involved, as I explained. I could go on about the rest, but honestly, I don't have the energy...

You can look up what I wrote online, and if you want to mock it like you have before, go ahead... to you, it's just a fictional concept and it'll stay that way (regardless of the evidence or testimonies, mine or anyone else's... nothing is going to change your skeptical stance because you simply aren't interested)

As a spirituality subforum, we should actually be discussing these concepts and influences—like the effects of raising Kundalini—from both a scientific perspective and an experiential one (which is almost quasi-scientific). Because of all this skepticism and the sheer number of "spiritualists" with zero substance, this forum feels hauntingly empty.

Yeah, it shows. Honestly, I still can't quite wrap my head around what you're actually trying to preach to me here...

lonestag15 said:And what are you even mocking me for, seriously? It’s just the topic at hand—the actual differences between Hindu practices and those Christian-style meditation routines. I mean, if someone drops "Kundalini yoga" in a conversation, do you really act like you have zero clue what they're talking about?...
Look, I’m really not interested in getting dragged into those low-level chess matches where everyone just tries to trash-talk or one-up each other...
And if I tell you I actually tried some Kundalini techniques and even described what happened next—it’s still going to hit that same wall of skepticism... because apparently, you somehow know what started happening to me after those practices better than I do myself... boo.

It’s not that I’m feeling discouraged or anything—I’m just straight-up disappointed by how closed-minded everyone is on this subforum... especially when the whole thing is literally called "spirituality."

Look, I laid out the facts regarding Kundalini rising and pointed to the massive amount of firsthand accounts from people who have actually lived through it... but you just had to compare them to UFO sightings like they’re some fringe conspiracy theory. It's the same old move—just another way to dismiss what all these people are experiencing. I even gave you my own personal experience—since I'm the only one who knows the truth of what happened to me—and yet you're still sitting there claiming it isn't "proof." So, what's the deal? Not even millions of people is enough for you? You've managed to brush off my own testimony, too... which, let's be real, is something only I can verify. Even the gurus themselves talk about the symptoms and go out of their way to warn about the dangers... so this isn't some fairy tale, it's... Just a fact...And that’s basically the whole point of this debate—if you aren't coming at this with an open mind and you're just acting like a total skeptic, nobody is ever going to prove anything to you... because, honestly, you just won't let them...

Look, even within the realm of science, that’s a solid proof... I mean, Freud followed those exact same paths when he was developing psychoanalysis. You just take a massive sample size of people—assuming they aren't lying about the whole thing, obviously—and there you go. That's your proof right there, whether it actually exists or not...

Basic etiquette involves not being a jerk... for instance, I’ll give you an example from this thread. I mention a friend from New York who happens to be a yoga instructor... then in your next post, you write allegedly my friend... so yeah, you’re doing that subtle little thing where you try to undermine people while acting all innocent.
It’s the same deal with mocking quotes... get it? Just get it...

You’ve got your own way of being passive-aggressive in gloves—staying defensive during a debate because that’s just how you feed. I’ve seen it in real life too; it’s hard for you to lose that condescending edge when that's just your whole vibe... sounds like something a politician would say, honestly.

Look, I'm going to lay this out objectively so you can't pull any context out of thin air. First, certain exercises cause actual chemical shifts (check that online, I'm not trying to misquote science here)

From the angle I get—the electrical side—first, regarding yoga: the spine is basically a direct extension of the brain through the spinal cord, and stretching it improves electrical conductivity. And the chemical changes are obvious, though I won't dive into that unless you want me to tear this post apart looking for errors since it's not my primary field.

Second, regarding Kundalini: the spine acts like a piezoelectric material. In short, when a material is under tension (like the vibration/stretching found in mantras), it generates extra electricity. Even our bones are piezoelectric... raising Kundalini triggers increased electrical activity in the brain (there are actually EEG studies on this).
The brain puts out about 20W of power, which depends on voltage and current. Any increase in those two components boosts the overall power. When you apply that to biological matter—which isn't exactly a 20W tungsten lightbulb—even a tiny electrical boost is noticeable. That's the current component...

Then there's the voltage component (potential difference), which is present in all visualization exercises. It’s the equivalent of calling upon the Holy Spirit or visualizing the crown chakra or the Kether from Kabbalistic theory. Whether that’s "objective" depends entirely on whether you believe in manipulating electricity. But the practice provides its own evidence...

And keep in mind, Kundalini is often interpreted as an energy that isn't strictly defined, so there's definitely a current component involved, as I explained. I could go on about the rest, but honestly, I don't have the energy...

You can look up what I wrote online, and if you want to mock it like you have before, go ahead... to you, it's just a fictional concept and it'll stay that way (regardless of the evidence or testimonies, mine or anyone else's... nothing is going to change your skeptical stance because you simply aren't interested)

As a spirituality subforum, we should actually be discussing these concepts and influences—like the effects of raising Kundalini—from both a scientific perspective and an experiential one (which is almost quasi-scientific). Because of all this skepticism and the sheer number of "spiritualists" with zero substance, this forum feels hauntingly empty.

Look, skepticism isn't inherently a bad thing. You kind of missed the forest for the trees, though—the real issue is that it's impossible to have a serious, deep conversation with certain people. Instead of using actual arguments or evidence, they just resort to psychoanalyzing you or throwing insults. Some of these folks act like they're enlightened masters, but honestly, by any standard, they're just dogmatic believers. There's definitely a handful of them on this forum—not everyone is like that, thankfully. Most people here are cool to talk to and can actually hold a decent debate. But if some people don't know the basics of how to have a constructive discussion, that's not on me. At the end of the day, they aren't looking for truth or solid logic; they're just clinging to their dogmas. The second you challenge those beliefs, they get super emotional. It's classic...
David Vaughn75 said:Look, without a witness, nothing gets heard because there isn't anyone there to process it. Hearing is an experience—and how is some massive void supposed to "experience" anything?

The apple exists, sure, but the *concept* of the apple doesn't.

If there were nobody left in the entire universe, then nobody would be around to establish any facts about that universe at all.

Look, having this idea of an apple stuck in your head—or anyone else's—doesn't change the fact that the apple is actually there. It’s pretty simple: objective reality doesn't give a damn about how one person or a whole group perceives things.

David Vaughn75 said:Look, without a witness, nothing gets heard because there isn't anyone there to process it. Hearing is an experience—and how is some massive void supposed to "experience" anything?

The apple exists, sure, but the *concept* of the apple doesn't.

If there were nobody left in the entire universe, then nobody would be around to establish any facts about that universe at all.

But honestly, we already know a ton of stuff about space that happened way before humans or even life on Earth were even a thing.
lonestag15 said:Nah, your issue is that you’re trying to mock people—and my issue is that I’m just sharing stuff from my own life and letting you think it's okay to make fun of me. As for what counts as "constructive debate"... honestly, I have no clue what exactly you find constructive about being a jerk...
That’s exactly why nobody wants to stick their neck out anymore—nobody wants to be the one to decide where we land. So fine, let’s all just put on our political gloves and play it safe like the career politicians do... and see where that gets us. Nowhere...

I’ve been following this thread from the jump, so I totally get why he finally lost his cool at the end—he basically went off the rails, and honestly, you were just the cherry on top of that whole mess...

Man, you really saved the best comments for last...

Just looking at this from my own perspective—I totally get why he reacted that way, and honestly, I see why you’re piling it on now too...

Look, that’s just how you play it—if you walk into a "constructive debate" by mocking everything I say from the jump, or if you throw in a few cheap shots every couple of replies... well, it’s gonna end up looking like a provocation. Pretty soon, the whole thing just hits a wall and turns into a total outburst...

Do I still have the right to laugh at stuff like "Kundalini yoga" and all that nonsense when it shows up in certain contexts? 😁 If those tiny little setbacks are enough to throw you off, I guess we can both agree that you’re way too easy to discourage.

lonestag15 said:Nah, your issue is that you’re trying to mock people—and my issue is that I’m just sharing stuff from my own life and letting you think it's okay to make fun of me. As for what counts as "constructive debate"... honestly, I have no clue what exactly you find constructive about being a jerk...
That’s exactly why nobody wants to stick their neck out anymore—nobody wants to be the one to decide where we land. So fine, let’s all just put on our political gloves and play it safe like the career politicians do... and see where that gets us. Nowhere...

I’ve been following this thread from the jump, so I totally get why he finally lost his cool at the end—he basically went off the rails, and honestly, you were just the cherry on top of that whole mess...

Man, you really saved the best comments for last...

Just looking at this from my own perspective—I totally get why he reacted that way, and honestly, I see why you’re piling it on now too...

Look, that’s just how you play it—if you walk into a "constructive debate" by mocking everything I say from the jump, or if you throw in a few cheap shots every couple of replies... well, it’s gonna end up looking like a provocation. Pretty soon, the whole thing just hits a wall and turns into a total outburst...

I’ve always been all about having an actual, reasoned debate—you know, the kind where people actually listen and build on each other's points instead of just shouting into the void. Based on the arguments...Honestly, posts like this—especially when you start pivoting to other people or diving into that pseudo-psychoanalysis stuff to take shots at others—are just a necessary evil. If people actually had a basic level of culture and just stuck to some fundamental forum etiquette, we wouldn't even be dealing with this kind of nonsense. But hey, I guess expecting that is basically asking for a utopia. Realistically? Only losers start drama like this.

lonestag15 said:Nah, your issue is that you’re trying to mock people—and my issue is that I’m just sharing stuff from my own life and letting you think it's okay to make fun of me. As for what counts as "constructive debate"... honestly, I have no clue what exactly you find constructive about being a jerk...
That’s exactly why nobody wants to stick their neck out anymore—nobody wants to be the one to decide where we land. So fine, let’s all just put on our political gloves and play it safe like the career politicians do... and see where that gets us. Nowhere...

I’ve been following this thread from the jump, so I totally get why he finally lost his cool at the end—he basically went off the rails, and honestly, you were just the cherry on top of that whole mess...

Man, you really saved the best comments for last...

Just looking at this from my own perspective—I totally get why he reacted that way, and honestly, I see why you’re piling it on now too...

Look, that’s just how you play it—if you walk into a "constructive debate" by mocking everything I say from the jump, or if you throw in a few cheap shots every couple of replies... well, it’s gonna end up looking like a provocation. Pretty soon, the whole thing just hits a wall and turns into a total outburst...

Get your hormones under control. Or don't—but if you choose to ignore it, don't come crying to me when everything hits the fan. It’s simple math. Buddha once said that holding onto anger is like grabbing a handful of hot coals just to throw them at someone else; you're definitely going to burn your own hands first. And honestly? There's a pretty good chance the other person is just gonna duck. 😁

Paul Rogers94 said:He lives for this kind of drama, and I gave him exactly what he wanted.
Every single word he types reeks of pure malice—he’s just playing the part of some self-important intellectual, but let's be real: he isn't a gentleman, he's just a lowlife.

Here we go again with the wild guesses. Honestly, you just can't face the fact that you don't actually have anything to back your claims up. It’s always the same pattern with you—whenever things get real, you just resort to personal insults or suggest people need therapy. Like, seriously? Just grow up a little and try being a decent human being. Instead of burning all your time and energy cranking out thousands of these petty posts, maybe try actually making a point for once. You’d find it a whole lot more productive, trust me.
lonestag15 said:So you did it again—exactly the same way you did last time... I mention I’ve been working on raising my Kundalini, and you drop a smiley face like you're mocking me... then you play the innocent act like you have no clue what you're doing

Podbadas is just being petty for no reason... just little, constant jabs... honestly, you're like a termite gnawing away at the person you're talking to

I see exactly what you're doing in this argument and why the guy lost his cool... and then, after poking him like that, you go right back to being snarky, telling him to "quit the psychedelics" because he's mentally unstable. You're out here handing out diagnoses when you literally wrote, "only losers bother with quasi-psychoanalyzing other people in a thread"

Is it just me, or are you being way too sensitive about this? Like, seriously, you're acting like a total snowflake over something that's basically nothing. 🤣 Is it really that big of a deal? Honestly, not my problem, so feel free to just keep those opinions to yourself. I’m really not interested.

lonestag15 said:So you did it again—exactly the same way you did last time... I mention I’ve been working on raising my Kundalini, and you drop a smiley face like you're mocking me... then you play the innocent act like you have no clue what you're doing

Podbadas is just being petty for no reason... just little, constant jabs... honestly, you're like a termite gnawing away at the person you're talking to

I see exactly what you're doing in this argument and why the guy lost his cool... and then, after poking him like that, you go right back to being snarky, telling him to "quit the psychedelics" because he's mentally unstable. You're out here handing out diagnoses when you literally wrote, "only losers bother with quasi-psychoanalyzing other people in a thread"

Honestly, it’s just because they don't have any actual arguments. No substance, no cultural awareness, and zero mental discipline to back it up.

lonestag15 said:So you did it again—exactly the same way you did last time... I mention I’ve been working on raising my Kundalini, and you drop a smiley face like you're mocking me... then you play the innocent act like you have no clue what you're doing

Podbadas is just being petty for no reason... just little, constant jabs... honestly, you're like a termite gnawing away at the person you're talking to

I see exactly what you're doing in this argument and why the guy lost his cool... and then, after poking him like that, you go right back to being snarky, telling him to "quit the psychedelics" because he's mentally unstable. You're out here handing out diagnoses when you literally wrote, "only losers bother with quasi-psychoanalyzing other people in a thread"

Look, if you want respect, you gotta earn it. It’s that simple. It's not rocket science. Same goes for defending yourself—if someone comes at you with a knife, you've got every right to fight back. There's no sin in protecting yourself when things get physical. And seriously, go back and actually read his post again. It was a direct response to my last one. Are you blind, or just trolling me?

lonestag15 said:So you did it again—exactly the same way you did last time... I mention I’ve been working on raising my Kundalini, and you drop a smiley face like you're mocking me... then you play the innocent act like you have no clue what you're doing

Podbadas is just being petty for no reason... just little, constant jabs... honestly, you're like a termite gnawing away at the person you're talking to

I see exactly what you're doing in this argument and why the guy lost his cool... and then, after poking him like that, you go right back to being snarky, telling him to "quit the psychedelics" because he's mentally unstable. You're out here handing out diagnoses when you literally wrote, "only losers bother with quasi-psychoanalyzing other people in a thread"

Check the explanation above. It’s pretty obvious you’re one of those people who needs everything drawn out in crayon for you. And yeah, sure, I guess I did pivot into analyzing the guy—but only after he hit a perfect 10/10 on the scale of being rude, ignorant, and just plain uncultured. He made it crystal clear that he wasn't interested in having a real, constructive conversation anyway. Honestly, are you two dating or something? Because the way you're blindly defending him is getting a little weird.
lonestag15 said:Brilliant...

You’re acting just like this Guilman guy—constantly dropping these little jabs and low blows in the comments, and then when someone finally snaps at you, suddenly *they're* the psycho... meanwhile, you completely miss how you're constantly baiting people with petty sarcasm and endless arguing—which seems to be your whole diet—instead of actually reading the posts and trying to grasp the context.

You're a perfect example. I mention I've been practicing Kundalini lifting and how it's boosted my creativity, cut my need for sleep, and given me an overall energy surge. Your first instinct? To comment that "Kundalini" is a feminine noun. Bravo! (Look, I know about Shakti too, but I just wrote it casually, while you're just hunting for any excuse to prove a point... not even sure what you're trying to prove, probably just being pedantic). Then you drop a smiley face to mock what was said... and then you act shocked when someone calls you out on it, totally blind to your own behavior—just a tiny, insignificant little jerk constantly nitpicking everyone else...

What "dead" comments? Man, go back and read his post, then check out his other stuff whenever a debate starts up—this isn't even close to the first time he's done this. I dare you to find one single post of mine where I actually insulted someone or dodged a solid argument. Seriously, just look at his history. You'd be better off staying quiet and not chiming in when you don't have anything smart to contribute, especially since your post is straight-up trolling. It breaks all the forum rules and has zero to do with the actual topic; it's just some losers trying to play amateur psychoanalyst on everyone else...

lonestag15 said:Brilliant...

You’re acting just like this Guilman guy—constantly dropping these little jabs and low blows in the comments, and then when someone finally snaps at you, suddenly *they're* the psycho... meanwhile, you completely miss how you're constantly baiting people with petty sarcasm and endless arguing—which seems to be your whole diet—instead of actually reading the posts and trying to grasp the context.

You're a perfect example. I mention I've been practicing Kundalini lifting and how it's boosted my creativity, cut my need for sleep, and given me an overall energy surge. Your first instinct? To comment that "Kundalini" is a feminine noun. Bravo! (Look, I know about Shakti too, but I just wrote it casually, while you're just hunting for any excuse to prove a point... not even sure what you're trying to prove, probably just being pedantic). Then you drop a smiley face to mock what was said... and then you act shocked when someone calls you out on it, totally blind to your own behavior—just a tiny, insignificant little jerk constantly nitpicking everyone else...

Is it really "mocking" if I tell someone who's clearly unstable that psychedelics aren't a good idea for them?

lonestag15 said:Brilliant...

You’re acting just like this Guilman guy—constantly dropping these little jabs and low blows in the comments, and then when someone finally snaps at you, suddenly *they're* the psycho... meanwhile, you completely miss how you're constantly baiting people with petty sarcasm and endless arguing—which seems to be your whole diet—instead of actually reading the posts and trying to grasp the context.

You're a perfect example. I mention I've been practicing Kundalini lifting and how it's boosted my creativity, cut my need for sleep, and given me an overall energy surge. Your first instinct? To comment that "Kundalini" is a feminine noun. Bravo! (Look, I know about Shakti too, but I just wrote it casually, while you're just hunting for any excuse to prove a point... not even sure what you're trying to prove, probably just being pedantic). Then you drop a smiley face to mock what was said... and then you act shocked when someone calls you out on it, totally blind to your own behavior—just a tiny, insignificant little jerk constantly nitpicking everyone else...

Trust me, I'm reading and I totally get the context. I have no clue what you're talking about. Can you give me even one single example with actual evidence where I missed the point? Let's see it.

lonestag15 said:Brilliant...

You’re acting just like this Guilman guy—constantly dropping these little jabs and low blows in the comments, and then when someone finally snaps at you, suddenly *they're* the psycho... meanwhile, you completely miss how you're constantly baiting people with petty sarcasm and endless arguing—which seems to be your whole diet—instead of actually reading the posts and trying to grasp the context.

You're a perfect example. I mention I've been practicing Kundalini lifting and how it's boosted my creativity, cut my need for sleep, and given me an overall energy surge. Your first instinct? To comment that "Kundalini" is a feminine noun. Bravo! (Look, I know about Shakti too, but I just wrote it casually, while you're just hunting for any excuse to prove a point... not even sure what you're trying to prove, probably just being pedantic). Then you drop a smiley face to mock what was said... and then you act shocked when someone calls you out on it, totally blind to your own behavior—just a tiny, insignificant little jerk constantly nitpicking everyone else...

🤣

lonestag15 said:Brilliant...

You’re acting just like this Guilman guy—constantly dropping these little jabs and low blows in the comments, and then when someone finally snaps at you, suddenly *they're* the psycho... meanwhile, you completely miss how you're constantly baiting people with petty sarcasm and endless arguing—which seems to be your whole diet—instead of actually reading the posts and trying to grasp the context.

You're a perfect example. I mention I've been practicing Kundalini lifting and how it's boosted my creativity, cut my need for sleep, and given me an overall energy surge. Your first instinct? To comment that "Kundalini" is a feminine noun. Bravo! (Look, I know about Shakti too, but I just wrote it casually, while you're just hunting for any excuse to prove a point... not even sure what you're trying to prove, probably just being pedantic). Then you drop a smiley face to mock what was said... and then you act shocked when someone calls you out on it, totally blind to your own behavior—just a tiny, insignificant little jerk constantly nitpicking everyone else...

Look, it’s not my fault some people resort to cheap insults the second they run out of actual points. Looks like you're one of those people.
Paul Rogers94 said:I was doing it desperately and pointlessly just to show you how much of a psycho you are—not because I'm playing pretend psychologist.

What you're pulling isn't a coherent discussion about spirituality; it's textbook psychopathic gaslighting. I've dealt with this type before...

A narcissistic psychopath feeds on souls and leaves nothing but wreckage in their wake—the same wreckage that eventually consumes them. I've seen it happen...

It’s funny, you really think that by throwing around these "psycho" insults, you’re somehow pointing out everyone else's issues. Honestly? It just makes you look like the one who needs help if you can't see that. You seem totally obsessed with psychiatrists, too—always bringing them up, constantly suggesting people go see one, or trying to slap some DIY diagnosis on someone the second you run out of actual points to make. Usually, that happens after maybe two sentences at most. Most of the time, your posts are just a mess of insults and whatever weird fantasies you've got going on, with zero real arguments to back it up. You can't even deny it; if you actually sat down and looked at all your outbursts together, it would be pretty obvious.

Paul Rogers94 said:I was doing it desperately and pointlessly just to show you how much of a psycho you are—not because I'm playing pretend psychologist.

What you're pulling isn't a coherent discussion about spirituality; it's textbook psychopathic gaslighting. I've dealt with this type before...

A narcissistic psychopath feeds on souls and leaves nothing but wreckage in their wake—the same wreckage that eventually consumes them. I've seen it happen...

Man, just stay away from those psychedelics. You can see they’re doing you no favors...
Paul Rogers94 said:You had your chance, but you just proved you're nothing more than a bottom-tier hack. Get lost—I don't care about a single word you write, and I certainly don't plan on reading another one of your posts ever again. You don't exist to me... go find some loser to vent to, because you're clearly just a pathetic, spineless coward who does nothing but sit around and watch life pass you by.

🤣
Seriously, how old are you? Did you ever actually finish kindergarten, or maybe even elementary school? It’s hilarious how you talk about "spirituality" and "mind control" when your actual ability to argue or hold a conversation is basically zero. That's just who you are. And what "chance" are you giving me? Like, really? Especially after those little meltdowns you had in our last few chats. Last time, you spent like four pages straight posting absolute nonsense, acting like some big-shot shrink trying to psychoanalyze everyone else just to dodge the actual point of the discussion. And you're doing the exact same thing right now. You actually convinced yourself that you were doing me a favor by "giving me a chance"? 😁 That's just ridiculous.
David Vaughn75 said:Concepts and preconceptions are just mental categories—they don't exist out there in the physical cosmos without a mind to house them.

If there isn't anyone around to actually experience a concept coming to life, then the concept itself doesn't even exist.

Look, if you've got a blind guy and an apple in a room, and you put that apple five feet away from him where he can't sense it at all, does that mean—by your "logic"—the apple objectively ceases to exist just because he isn't perceiving it subjectively? I’m telling you, someone's subjective perception has absolutely nothing to do with objective reality or the existence of the universe.