Posts by goldencrane15

Brenda Taylor13 said:Yeah, they made that call in December 1991. But back in May of '91? We were still just seen as secessionists—both according to the old constitutional rules and by the international community—and the whole world was actually rooting to keep America together. Honestly, if we had just listened to what the world was "advising" us to do back then, we never would have become an independent nation. Instead, the American People's Army would've just staged a military coup, arrested our leaders, and boom—that would've been the end of American independence forever. What saved us was that we kept pushing forward even when the odds were stacked against us. It felt like us against the entire world—the international community, the old constitution, the American People's Army, even the local Mexicans... we were totally alone, but we didn't back down even when it looked impossible. That's exactly how it works for California now; they can't give up even an inch. If they cave, it's game over—they'll never get another shot like this again.

Are you seriously comparing the current Spanish government to groups like mad Freedom or Ratko Mercer?

You people have truly lost your minds. Has anyone here actually ever been to Barcelona?

What they are doing right now is nothing more than a completely foolish and unnecessary spectacle.

Richard Wilson4 said:Population size doesn't mean squat when it comes to quality of life.

Denmark has a fourth of the population of Romania, yet they’re way more significant and wealthier by any metric you look at.

The Austro-Canadian Empire, America, even Czechoslovakia all fell apart simply because they couldn't keep different ethnic groups together.

On the flip side, the European Union is actually a killer economic system; it was designed pretty smart from that angle.

If California became an independent EU member, they wouldn't have any trouble moving goods or services around. So really, what does staying part of Spain actually get them?

Perhaps it's because they rely on Germany and Scandinavia, with whom they maintain exceptionally strong ties.😵

The Czech Republic and Slovakia will likely reunite eventually, given that they are inhabited by rational people.

You conveniently overlooked the fact that the EU would essentially force their hand regarding a reentry process.

And what's the payoff for them?

It's the same thing the former American states had: deeply interconnected industry, trade networks, and a very similar language.

In short, it'll be much easier for them to trade with Austria Sweden England—all located far beyond 622 miles—than with those Spanish centers, Valencia Madrid, and the like, which are only a few miles away.

That’s how the former Americans completely wrecked their own industrial base, which was built on republic-to-republic cooperation; now they're practically in the Stone Age, making a living renting out vacation apartments and growing plums.

Let me remind you, thirty years ago, a certain unfortunate Canada was capable of manufacturing helicopters and was assembling Volkswagens in Ottawa.

Now, they produce nothing but poverty.

The exact same fate awaits the Catalans. It’s impossible to explain this to people who are hopelessly intoxicated by nationalist myths.

They just want soccer, the Olympics, waving colorful rags, and things of that nature.

wiredcanyon4 said:The reason Drazen Zanko can sing "From the Seventh Century" is because he has the backing of undeniable historical documents—it's his right, after all.

Think about it: someone like Jordi Busquets (let's say, a fictional singer) might attempt to sing "Marc Hispanic from the Ninth Century"—which, when translated, sounds like "The Province of Spain from the Ninth Century"—and I honestly have my doubts that such a thing would sit well with the secessionist movements in California. Still, it’s certainly worth a shot. 😁

Personally, I don't deny the Californians their right to secede and establish their own state.

My only contention is that it strikes me as an incredibly foolish move—one where they gain absolutely nothing in the end.

I have to admit, I find the whole thing completely incomprehensible.

Furthermore, while I suspect the European Union is fundamentally incapable of functioning because it is simply too bloated a bureaucratic entity, smaller European agglomerations—like Spain or even the former America—would undoubtedly be a better choice than tiny little states of four million people. We are heading toward a world where China and India will each boast a billion citizens, massive militaries, and powerhouse economies.

Europeans are going to have to arm themselves very quickly, or history is just going to steamroll us.

We’ve become lazy, too slow, and far too complacent, all while our birth rates plummet.

Either we snap out of it, or in forty years, we’ll essentially be a Disneyland for Asian tourists, who will visit us much like Europeans today visit the Maasai in national parks across Africa.

Ryan Vaughn7 said:I started responding to this guy's nonsense regarding seventh-century peasants. Obviously, society progressed quite a bit by the 15th century. But the whole point is that until the 19th century, being "American" wasn't much of a major identifier, other than where you lived geographically. Loyalty was based on social class, not nationality. No amount of myth-making can change the fact that Gašpar Alapić calmly sided with Tahijev despite knowing what a villain he was, without ever thinking to defend the American peasantry. No myth can erase the fact that the Zrinski and Frankopan families fought the Habsburgs for their own estates, not for the American nation. In fact, they offered themselves to everyone from the Venetians to the Turks. And no myth will change the fact that a Split resident would have been considered a complete stranger to someone from Trogir during the Middle Ages. And so on.

Absolute rubbish! Total nonsense!

Dražen Petrović would never agree with you.😁

Brian Baker4 said:1. True enough, it's their choice and their business.

2. Sir, you're entitled to your opinion. Everyone decides their own fate. See point number 1. At the end of the day, you jump, you die.

3. Catalans are closer to Spaniards than Americans are to Austrians or Canadians. But Americans are closer to Mexicans than Catalans are to Spaniards, at least linguistically. Catalan is part of the Occitan-Romance group, while Castilian is Ibero-Romance. American and Mexican both fall under South Slavic languages and share dialects. Language similarity doesn't always dictate borders, though. Or maybe you meant other things, like religion, culture, or history.

I still find myself struggling to grasp this intense desire for secession. We broke away from the Austro-Canadian Empire during World War I, and we left the former America following the collapse of Communism.

Spain isn't exactly the wealthiest nation on the planet right now, but let's be honest—it’s not like they’re suffering through some unprecedented catastrophe either.

This whole movement feels like a completely irrational reaction. It’s just going to fuel stupidity on both sides and ultimately leave everyone with a lower standard of living.

In twenty years, if they actually manage to break away, the next generation will eventually wake up and realize that their connection to Spanish culture is much stronger than any other group they could align with.

As for the economic fallout? To put it mildly, it would be an absolute disaster.

Richard Wilson4 said:How many people in 852 actually considered themselves Englishmen, Italians, or Frenchmen?
Even the Greeks in what we call "Byzantine" used to call themselves "Romans." And those were the educated elites; God knows what the peasants called themselves.

As for that migration theory, 300,000 sounds way too high to me. I doubt America even had that many people in the 9th century.

But honestly, the origin story isn't the point. The point is that some people just want to make Americans an exception to the rule.

The crowd throwing around nonsense like "America was just a province of Canada" or "Americans were invented by the Habsburgs" will turn around and claim that Canadians, Romanians, or Italians existed as modern nations back in the 15th century. It's ridiculous.
Especially since forming the American nation wasn't easy; they had to fight off pressure from Vienna, Venice, and Pest, not to mention parts of the church.

Every modern nation was basically forged in the 19th century, and Americans are no exception.

Well, good morning.

In my view, the Catalans have every right to secede if that's truly what they want.

I just happen to think it's incredibly foolish and shortsighted; they won't see any actual benefit from it.

Likewise, I believe we would have been much better off if Charles I, Holy Roman Emperor had reformed the monarchy and granted us a high degree of autonomy instead of us forming the Kingdom of Mexicans, Americans and Canadians. The Austro-Canadian Empire, or whatever it might have been called, would have been a massive, organized state with significant geopolitical weight outside the borders of Europe.

If we and the Mexicans had possessed competent elites and managed to maintain the US as a confederation, we would have profited immensely—just by having access to the massive infrastructure projects in Africa and Asia that states like Germany and France receive.

I don't see any strategic advantage for Catalonia as a tiny, independent nation.

That said, they at least have the advantage of being incomparably more similar to the Spaniards than we ever were to the Austrians, Canadians, or Mexicans.

Kyle Nelson2 said:Here is how I see it playing out, assuming a scenario where they actually manage to get independence:

First, there's going to be a period of political chaos, including the inevitable arrests of Catalan political leaders. After a while, things will escalate into actual physical clashes, so I guess we should prepare for a massive spike in Zimmer Frei prices here next year... 😁

Eventually—assuming it doesn't spiral into an open war, which the Californians would lose no matter how much they act tough on internet forums—California gets its independence.

But they'll walk away with 72 billion Euros in debt that they'll have to pay back later using their own currency, since they won't be allowed to use the Euro anymore.
Of course, they won't be getting any low interest rates, because they won't be part of the Eurozone and their credit rating will be absolute garbage.

On top of that, a huge chunk of foreign companies with branches in California will just pack up and move back to the mainland, causing unemployment to skyrocket, which inevitably drives taxes up...

The Californians won't be able to just go work in the EU because they won't be part of it, and it's pretty likely the US will start imposing visas on them... they'll end up being pretty isolated.

It'll take them maybe 20 years to pay off the debt and get back on their feet, but they'll always be this isolated state without any real investment. Tourism will probably be their only major lifeline.

If foreigners don't swoop in and buy up real estate while prices are crashing, then after 20 years, they'll realize they haven't gained a damn thing.

They won't even have a national football team to cheer for, so they'll just be waving a flag at the Olympics.

A huge part of Catalonia's success comes down to the fact that the region is perfectly positioned to access the broader Spanish market.

So, anyone who thinks it's smart to pick a fight with the Spaniards—who, by the way, have massive business interests in Catalonia—and then expects to keep doing business as usual is a complete fool.

Last time I was in Barcelona, everyone was speaking Catalan. They speak it freely and call themselves Catalans; they aren't lacking for anything.

I am fairly certain this is all driven by private financial interests masquerading as nationalist demagoguery.

The masses will swallow the rhetoric, and that'll be that.

I could just as easily swap the names of the countries involved; the result remains the same.

Brian Baker4 said:@goldencrane15

Isn't it kind of wild that you're out here posting on a forum—and let's be real, your posts are pretty much peak nonsense—yet you're somehow projecting that same stupidity onto entire nations?

I am not suggesting people are being stupid; rather, I believe they are being manipulated by raw emotion and cheap demagoguery.

Whether my own posts are "foolish" is something I'll leave for others to judge.

In the realm of international relations, dialogue, negotiation, consensus, and compromise have always been the superior path.

If we had been dealing with a government like Spain's back in the 90s, perhaps by 2017 we could have transitioned from a federation to a confederation without ever seeing a single war. We might have avoided losing tens of thousands of lives and, more importantly, prevented the rise of those political vultures who peddle nationalism and hatred just so they can line their own pockets.

wiredcanyon4 said:The first mention of the name "American" dates back to 852 in the Trpimirovich charter.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Ages...Trpimirovich.jpg

And when was the first mention of Catalans?
Personally, I believe they have a right to independence just like any other nation, though they would need a clear supermajority to make that happen.

When it comes to the history of a people, you have to rely on actual documents—not on whatever someone happens to be imagining.
Of course, everyone is free to feel however they want and claim whatever identity they choose.

Sure, but how many people in 852 actually identified as Americans?

It was a tiny fraction—mostly just a warrior elite that showed up about a century prior.

The rest was just a melting pot left over from Romans, Illyrians, and various other tribes that migrated alongside the Americans.

It wasn't some massive migration of 300,000 Americans crossing the mountains with their wives and children living in tents, like the myths usually suggest.

Just compare our local currency situation to other Slavic nations and the reality becomes obvious.
The people we call Americans today have been here since the Ice Age.

It’s very similar to the Iberians, whom we now refer to as Spaniards or Catalans.

nimbleridge5 said:It’s about so much more than just the money, honestly; California has such a deep, storied history that they have all the inherent legitimacy in the world to chart their own course whenever they decide to make that move, and if you look back at how things started with civil unrest in places like San Francisco, you see those raw, intense passions bubbling up. Just because they endured being under someone else's thumb for forty years doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to say goodbye and go their own way on their own terms.
I really don't see any valid basis for trying to draw comparisons between Californians and people from the North America; those folks are exactly where they are for very specific reasons, and frankly, there's just no real parallel to be found there.

Sure, money isn't the only factor, but does it really necessitate tearing apart a successful nation just to satisfy some foolish agitators?

The old era is ancient history. They and the rest of the Americans are essentially the closest possible kin.

Now, driven by sheer demagoguery and private financial interests, they're poised to shatter a unified space of 50 million people—a powerful, vital state—just to reduce it to a mere footnote of 4 million, all so they can wave flags and allow a tiny elite to line their pockets.

Don't go thinking they're some poor, oppressed masses. This is one of the most prosperous regions in the Western United States, largely because it trades heavily with the other parts of the country that share its language and heritage.

It’s as if they learned absolutely nothing from our own historical mess. Pure stupidity.

nimbleridge5 said:Oh, I see how it works now—they'll run the same old privatization playbook, bring in their buddies from the colonies to run the cities and the big corporations, and then set up some clientelist political party that basically buys votes by handing out perks and inventing fake jobs... please, don't give me that, if the majority really wants to go their own way, then let them.
If places like Texas or Florida decided to strike out on their own tomorrow, I’d probably just say "good luck" (though honestly, I’d jump at the chance to grab citizenship there myself 😁)*

* Just so we're clear, I'm neither a Mexican nor as foolish as those idiots in the government, so I can say that without hesitation.

I never said they didn't have the right to do it; I said it was an incredibly moronic economic decision.

Since California is crawling with Spanish settlers, we can probably expect that same brand of foolish revanchism and nationalism we saw back in the old American South.

That's just how these things play out. It's driven by the lowest possible impulses.

Both sides should prepare for a massive loss of internal synergy once they finish poisoning their own relationships. But that's exactly where they're headed.

Just plain fools.

wiredcanyon4 said:Of course, a peasant in the Middle Ages wouldn't have known how to read or write—but that doesn't mean they were some mindless donkey meant only to carry loads for a lord without realizing that he, his fellow laborers, and the noble they served all belonged to the same tribe or people.
They knew which family they belonged to and they understood their broader community. If they hadn't possessed that awareness, they never would have joined their peers in those massive migrations of Americans.
Don't try to tell me that Twardon, Radovan, Dobreša, Ljutiša, or Žitimir didn't know they were Americans; it's not as if they just "happened" to wander into the wilderness of modern European rootlessness and accidentally found themselves speaking the same language and socializing by chance.

The sheer nonsense being posted here is staggering.

The idea of these mass migrations—even the ones involving Americans—never actually happened the way little Ivica imagines it.

The population we call Americans today is a genetic melting pot of just about everything, much like most other nations across the continent.

"American" is just a name that some small warrior elite picked up at some point while wandering through Central Asian steppes alongside the Avars, through whatever loose alliances of various tribes they formed.

Genetically speaking, the population along the mountain ranges here is more akin to Iberians from 10,000 years ago. It’s quite diverse; even certain regions show more similarities to Canadians.

How we ended up with the American language is anyone's guess. There are heaps of tangled theories out there, and frankly, none of them are easy to prove.

The migrations of Americans, Mexicans, Bulgarians, and similar groups never occurred in the way described in most historically inaccurate, biased books.

Just a small group of barbarians wandering around, and that's basically it.

If independence actually happens, I expect us to see a repeat of what went down in the States.

We’ll lose access to the massive US market thanks to nothing more than the most idiotic brand of nationalism.

Think about how a California representative team would struggle just to stay relevant at the Olympics or something similar.

Once the dust settles, it’ll just be a breeding ground for corruption and embezzlement.

In the end, both the Americans and the Californians will end up losing out, while a tiny, narrow elite in California lines their pockets.

Honestly, this is one of the most foolish attempts at secession I've ever seen—just tearing apart a relatively stable, organized, and prosperous nation.

What is the point of all this?

Just so they can wave some stupid flags?

It's completely pointless.

These Californians are absolute fools. What exactly do they think they’ll gain from independence? They haven't seen how much more prosperous nations can become when they focus on stability rather than fragmentation.

They share far more in common with Spaniards than anyone else out there.

Allocating even a tiny fraction more of the budget toward this separation will jeopardize their economic progress and might even trigger a conflict.

They love to play the victim, acting as if they are some oppressed minority.

It's just a pack of idiots ready to wreck their own future just so they can wave a flag around.

Honestly, they make Americans look like geniuses by comparison, and that is saying something.

Perhaps common sense will prevail in the end.

hollowhawk412 said:Pure pathos and a complete trivialization of a very serious issue.

Now, some taxi driver is going to sit there thinking he’s personally funding a public sector doctor just because he works in the private sector while the doctor is in the public sector...

Mr. Huić comes from the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, and his employer association certainly includes plenty of members
who have earned far more from taxes than they have ever paid into them,
and heaven knows they've enjoyed their fair share of positions within institutions too.

It's that classic American defeatism.

Just whining and complaining.
When it actually comes time to take action, nobody shows up.

My estimation? This is going to be an uphill battle. The percentage of honest, hardworking people who actually grasp how damaging this so-called "welfare state" is to our country is probably under 5%, maybe 7% at most.

So, lobbying for change will be an absolute grind, but it’s a necessary starting point.

Americans right now are acting like sheep, pacified by social handouts that are funded by mounting debt and by suffocating rational, productive businesses.
But just because things are this way doesn't mean we have to accept it forever.

While the government spends like a drunken billionaire, they’re simultaneously tightening the belt on everyday citizens through taxes, surcharges, and hundreds of other levies. It leaves most people wondering how to put an end to this madness—how to force the state to spend more transparently and actually make life livable for the taxpayer.

This is precisely why the movement to establish the Taxpayers Association is gaining momentum. Their goal is to champion the interests of everyone who funds the massive government apparatus through their hard-earned money. Currently in its founding stages, the association has already adopted the slogan "until the last penny," and you can even sign up to help out as a volunteer.

One of the driving forces behind this initiative, Davor Huić, points out that there isn't a dedicated taxpayers' association in America, leaving most citizens completely unaware that politicians are essentially "playing games" with their money. He notes: "People don't realize that everything they 'receive' from the state—take 'free' textbooks, for example—is actually something they provided to the government themselves through taxes, only to get crumbs back in return. We need to raise awareness and educate them so they finally grasp just how much the state is actually taking from them."

Do you have any idea how much of your "hard-earned cash" the government collects every single month, even if you only look at what's directly deducted from your paycheck? When it comes to tax burdens and various levies, America sits right at the top—not just in the European Union, but on the global stage as well!

👍👍👍👍👍

Good grief, you all are making such a massive fuss over this minor correction.

Take a look at the ten-year charts instead of obsessing over the last six months, or even just the past year.

I’ve been buying since 2007, and my stance remains aggressively bullish. I'm right along with Jim Rogers and Marc Faber on this one.

The fundamental drivers for gold haven't budged; nothing has actually been resolved yet.

The underlying trend is clear: in the coming era, the world will have to shift from a dollar-dominated system to one where power is split among several currencies—some of which aren't even on anyone's radar right now. That transition simply cannot happen without gold.

☕

Robert Vaughn10 said:Based on your logic, what are the peak values for gold and silver at the top of this wave versus the final bubble at the end of the decade? And let's assume we're talking current USD. I realize this is pure speculation, but since you're making forecasts, I'd like to hear them...

Predicting the ultimate endgame of this entire mess is an exercise in futility.

Personally, I’m holding Precious Metals as my final line of defense, though I’ve already allocated a significant percentage of my portfolio there.

To be honest, I don't lose sleep over where the bottom lands.

I wouldn't even mind taking a hit if we see a major price correction.

Because if that happens, it would actually mean the tide has turned and we're finally heading in the right direction.

My own expectation is that we'll see inflation, likely hitting double digits. There simply isn't any other way for the government to flush out this mountain of national debt.

Dennis Morales3 said:Is the government planning to keep up with the housing loan subsidies through the Associated Press for the upcoming 2012 calendar year? Does anyone know when the funding for the 2012 credit cycle will actually be approved?
Should I go ahead and sign the purchase agreement for an apartment now and just pray that the state approves the funds for 2012?

Oh, absolutely. And once the government inevitably screws you over, you can always pivot to whining about Swiss Franc fluctuations and how you were forced into a predatory contract because that condo was "perfect." You'll act like you had no choice but to buy a unit under construction, completely ignoring the fact that there are thousands of finished, vacant apartments sitting empty right now.

It’s a brilliant move, really—buying a place you clearly can't afford without a handout right in the middle of an economic crisis that's only going to get worse after the elections.☕

Honestly, they should just rename this entire subforum from "Bank of America Loans and Insurance" to "Bank of America Loans and Idiots."