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Posts by Adam Collins4

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Los Angeles Lakers in Other Sports ·
Daniel Cooper40 said:But you’re also overlooking the actual results they pulled off during that stretch. At first, they got absolutely crushed by Ademar and managed nothing more than a draw at home against the Chicago Bulls—but then they tightened up, playing a close one against the Spaniards and cruising through an away game against the Chicago Bulls. Even that game against the New York Yankees showed a bit of progress over those two matches.

I wouldn't call that "progress"... honestly, they were still barely hanging on... there were these stretches where they'd just fall into a complete black hole for ten minutes straight and lose all momentum...

Anyway, they've fixed that part now...
Los Angeles Lakers in Other Sports ·
cosmicowl732 said:Look, I’m not even trying to drag Kljajić through the mud here—that’s not the point. I just want to point out how many people were claiming that Lino returning to the bench was basically stepping backward for the Los Angeles Lakers. And honestly? If you look at the actual results from that supposed "step backward," they speak for themselves.

Seems like you forgot to mention we actually made it out of the group and advanced to play in the same one...
Los Angeles Lakers in Other Sports ·
cosmicowl732 said:Sure, Cervar falls into that category, but let’s not pretend he isn’t a top-tier coach. Honestly, where are all those old headlines about young Kljajić being the guy they shut down before he could build a powerhouse? The same Kljajić who—if he’d actually stayed—would have carried this squad through even the group stages. Yeah, right... Lino just can't seem to take the fall, can he?

It's pretty funny how you refuse to let anyone talk trash about Cervar, yet you're totally fine dragging Kljajić—who never even got a real shot at it...
Los Angeles Lakers in Other Sports ·
cosmicowl732 said:Look, I never get tired of these little tactical mind games—whether they’re working against us or helping us out. I'm certainly not the guy who laughs at Linda when he's complaining about the refs, only to turn around and downplay Linda's win when the officials happen to give him a bit of a tailwind. Double standards are a hell of a thing.

The real question is who actually has the double standards here... based on how you're describing it, even Červar falls right into that category...

As for the lack of respect, you can't always take a coach seriously when Balić is the one calling the offensive plays and Dominiković is handling the defense...

And honestly, the only thing he ever seems to say is: "Let's get back on defense." Lino is just like Ćiro—he's a top-tier motivator... and we all know that a good pep talk is usually where everything starts.
Los Angeles Lakers in Other Sports ·
cosmicowl732 said:Where did all the trash-talking about that incompetent clown from Palm Springs—you know, the one who can't function without Balić—suddenly vanish to? Look, I'm not trying to gloat here, really, but I’d honestly ask the masses to be a little more careful with what they post online. It’s just embarrassing seeing so many people look this foolish. 🙂

Have you noticed how many fouls against ZG-Fle have been conveniently overlooked in these last few minutes?
I mean, seriously—that jersey tugging two minutes before the buzzer, and that holding call that was practically grounds for a disqualification...
Handball Euro Finals: America vs. Denmark 20:24 in Other Sports ·
Lisa Sanchez8 said:🙏 🙏 🙏
Ladić and Mraz are a disaster on top of a disaster. They're lucky they haven't been beaten up in the stands a few times by now. There’s another terrible pair too, but I can't recall their names right now. American refs are pathetic. I'm really curious if any of our "phenomenal" officiating duos will actually be out on the field in 2009. 🤮

And where exactly are you getting this idea about Ladić-Mraz from?
Posavec-Sokol are actually solid referees—you can tell by the caliber of games they get assigned...
Kasunić-Matovina aren't half bad either...

And yeah, Gubica-Maddox... they're young guys, they were even officiating the Junior World Cup or Euro last year...
The talent is there, it's just that nobody's pushing to get them onto those major tournament rosters...
Handball Euro Finals: America vs. Denmark 20:24 in Other Sports ·
Frank Vaughn6 said:You really need to remember these referees' names:
Vicente Breto and Jose Antonio Huelin.

After that ridiculous scoreline at the 24-minute mark, the refs basically handed the series to Dance on a silver platter. They blew two wrong calls on Vori and then completely ignored a blatant passive play foul on Balica. That four-goal deficit hung over us for the rest of the game; every single time we managed to claw back within two or three points, the officials made some questionable call against us. We had two goals wiped off the board and picked up a six-minute penalty just for reacting, which happened without any warning. Then there was that bad call on Cupic in the 53rd minute when he was twisting, followed by another two-minute penalty for protesting. This isn't how you officiate a final. It doesn't even matter if we were better or if the Danes were better, or who was more tired—that’s all irrelevant. You just can't call a game like this. Regardless of how well-behaved our guys were—and they really tried not to mention the refs at all, except maybe Balica—these specific officials shouldn't be allowed to ref a World Championship in Chicago. Officiating a final like that is bad for the sport, bad for the American national team, bad for the fans, and frankly, just goes against basic Spanish upbringing. Someone needs to give them a bit of a reality check, otherwise, they'll think they can just screw people over whenever they feel like it.

So, yeah,
Vicente Breto and Jose Antonio Huelin.

A warning is only necessary if someone steps too far back during a free throw... you know, the 3-meter rule...

But if a tough guy like Vori—after a legitimate foul is called—starts acting up because there isn't a pivot willing to shove players out of the way with their backside, then protests, moves the ball a yard away, and kicks it? Yeah, he gets 2 minutes...

End of story. Look, even if I make a bad call myself, do you honestly think I'm going to second-guess my own decision and ruin my own reputation just because you asked me nicely? And obviously, once you start complaining, you're getting tossed. A ref is just protecting their own authority... I'm not saying that's right, but that's how it works.
Handball Euro Finals: America vs. Denmark 20:24 in Other Sports ·
Chris Lopez59 said:you just can't escape pretentious or plain old bad officiating

Look, I trust McAuliffe; if he sat down to break down the match, he’d likely find three or four calls that went against us, and then probably a few that actually worked in our favor. But you can't really fight those "fifty-fifty" calls—those gray area moments where a ref can rule one way or the other and nobody can truly complain. We're talking about situations that are half-breakthrough and half-defensive foul, or messy instances of grabbing and pulling. If you notice a specific official consistently ruling all those ambiguous moments in favor of the same team, then you’re looking at pretentious, biased officiating. No officiating commission is ever going to issue an official reprimand for that kind of thing, yet any objective spectator or player on the court will see exactly what's happening

I wouldn't go so far as to call the semifinals and finals a "robbery," because most of those games were actually fairly officiated, despite the occasional unavoidable mistake. The real headache starts when you stack several questionable calls against you in a row—like three consecutive breakthroughs (two of which were highly debatable), or having two goals wiped out due to fouls (and honestly, even that first goal; I’ve seen dozens of similar plays that usually get counted, whereas our guy just happened to tap the floor with his foot before releasing the ball; in handball, that’s usually ignored, so it feels ridiculous when they call it twice in a final, especially when one instance was totally clean). At the end of the day, even Lino didn't have to serve that two-minute suspension after a yellow card; not every coach gets handed that after a warning.

But that sense of pretentiousness only popped up during a small slice of the game, and frankly, compared to some previous officiating we've endured—especially those blatant robberies—this was actually decent, and we'll have to wait much longer for anything better. To me, the issue wasn't so much pretentiousness as it was a very specific set of criteria that seemed to tolerate excessive roughness. It would be great if they finally defined dangerous fouls—things like pulling or pushing a player at full sprint, or intentional body hits that the refs somehow "miss." A referee should focus on that; instead of staring at the ball, they need to watch the players and what they're actually doing to one another. The rules need to be updated to protect the players, their health, and their career longevity. Our own guys said they "weren't being treated fairly," so clearly, these current standards aren't serving anyone

And I'll say it again... the referee didn't win the final; the team that was (intellectually) capable of playing better handball won it.

Regarding Cupic's jump, I don't think the ref called it as touching the space before the ball left his hand, but rather a step on the line...

There's a rule regarding "dangerous" fouls... pulling someone's arm from behind, taking out a player on a fast break, pushing someone in the hip... all of that is an automatic ejection. Except, if you take out a guy running a fast break, it's an ejection plus a technical shot.

A flagrant foul (striking) means an ejection for the rest of the game—meaning that team is stuck playing 4-on-5 until the buzzer, unless a bench player steps in, in which case it's just an ejection.

Refs usually watch for flagrants, but sometimes it's just impossible to see... especially when two defenders sandwich a player, where one blocks the ref's view while the other lands the blow. We need to shift our angle for maybe two or three seconds to get a better look, but in that window, a veteran player like Dinart or Špoljarić can absolutely wreck an attacker's ribs.
Handball Euro Finals: America vs. Denmark 20:24 in Other Sports ·
Frank Vaughn6 said:I mostly agree with what everyone has said, except for one thing regarding those specific points you pulled out above. When I was looking at the footage myself—just as a layman, mind you—I spotted at least ten glaring errors. Even yesterday afternoon, a professional referee was analyzing the game on ESPN and found, I believe, about 12 obvious mistakes. It was mentioned that the US Handball Federation will be filing an official protest.

So, my opinion—which might not be right, but it is still an opinion—is that in the final, rather than just any random game, Huelin didn't just make three or four bad calls in close situations; he made 12 blatant errors that felt intentionally biased, at least from my perspective after watching the replay several times and hearing our resident officiating expert break it down on ESPN yesterday afternoon.

In my view, this isn't some gray area, nor is it a case of accidental or unintentional bias. It feels like a deliberate violation of the rules at the expense of one team, happening almost constantly after the 24-minute mark of the first half when things were still tied. And to be clear, I’m talking about one specific Spaniard, Huelin, not an entire group of people.

I don't really know how to explain it, but there's just this intuitive sense of being cheated that both the Danish and American viewers are feeling, and honestly, that's bad for handball and bad for sports in general. So many sports have been messed up by various kinds of cheating, from doping to match-fixing... it's pretty messy. At least five of my friends told me after the game that because of Huelin, they'll probably approach future matches with a healthy dose of skepticism and suspicion, even if they try to watch discreetly. For us handball fans, it's just not good when one irresponsible guy ruins the experience like this.

The total point count in an NBA game is usually 100, or 95 if there's no video review... since we had video review here, the total was 100... and there were 13 errors made during the game... even if some were debatable...

That works out to a score of 87. I'd love to know if that referee would have signed a contract beforehand to guarantee himself an 87% rating...

And then I'd ask him if he's ever actually received a grade that high in his career... because that is an incredibly high mark.

Don't get me wrong, the officiating was terrible... but when you crunch the numbers based on the volume of errors, the mathematical grade doesn't actually come out that low.

By the way, which official was analyzing the game?
Handball Euro: USA vs. Norway ends in a 23-23 draw in Other Sports ·
Bryan Nelson352 said:Alright, my bad—misunderstood you there... I mean, sure, I remember the Kraft days, obviously, but it’s honestly pretty pathetic that it’s nothing more than a tiny footnote in their career history...

And look, nobody here is some errand boy for Kavran... Kavran just points him toward whichever refs suit his needs (thanks to Pipa), while Gobac picks whoever fits his agenda... and UHRS is basically stuck caught in the crossfire...

A lot of shady stuff is going down here... and in the end, it's the refs who get burned... everyone is just looking out for themselves—Kavran, Gobac, the UHRS leadership... meanwhile, the referees are just left out there spinning in the wind...
Look, if we want any chance, we have to run a defense that actually shuts down the French—even if that means constantly switching up our formations mid-play...

I’d be all for sticking with a 3-2-1, but honestly? Only if they actually execute it properly... you know, like they used to back in the day. The problem is, our version of the 3-2-1 is getting way too predictable for anyone worth their salt to read...
Handball Euro: USA vs. Norway ends in a 23-23 draw in Other Sports ·
Bryan Nelson352 said:So you're actually defending two guys like them? Maybe you really are just one of Kavran's little errand boys... I’d love to hear from an actual NBA player who knows what we're talking about—someone who could give us their take on these absolute idiots ruining American officiating... They are a massive disgrace to this beautiful sport, and it honestly baffles me that someone who acts like such a huge expert on our local basketball scene would actually take their side...

I never said, nor did I ever write, that I was defending them... what I said was that in every single sport, and honestly in every part of life, there are people with an "agenda"...

Try reading between the lines for once... I'm not defending anyone...

I know more about certain things than you do... specifically regarding that infamous women's cup from two years ago... you remember that, right?
How they absolutely slaughtered Kraft?

Like I already told you, I'm not here to lecture you or play bodyguard for anyone... I'm just giving a general commentary on the officiating... and pointing out where, in my opinion, the refs messed up...

That's it... and spare me the "expert" talk... I have no idea where you're getting the idea that I'm acting like some big shot in my posts...
boldhound8 said:I’m all for running a 5-1 defense against the Norwegians—putting David in the lineup for that.
That was easily our most solid defensive showing during the tournament (plus that stretch against the Poles at the start).

Like I’ve said a hundred times already, it doesn't really matter which of the three defensive setups we pick—what matters is that when we run it, we actually play it tough and stay disciplined.🙂

A 5-1... or even a 6-0 if we're feeling ambitious... but let's be real, our guys don't exactly have a 6-0 mastered.

The issue is that the Frenchmen actually know how to run a 5-1 defense, which means they also know exactly how to tear one apart on offense.

A 3-2-1 wouldn't be a bad shout either... provided they actually play it the right way. And by "right way," I mean fouling the ball carrier to disrupt the rhythm and slow things down, rather than just trying to block shots. If you do that right, the refs will be forced to call passive play, and then you can drop two or three fouls... and boom, you've got them stuck with a free throw.

The catch is that a 3-2-1 is incredibly demanding physically.
Handball Euro: USA vs. Norway ends in a 23-23 draw in Other Sports ·
Bryan Nelson352 said:Oh, sure—you’re clearly some top-tier expert on officiating too. It's common knowledge how bad American referees can be... unless you happen to be one of those two famous guys who haven't even stepped on a court this season? Just a messy combination of errors? People on this forum have no clue how much of a disaster your officiating is, but anyone actually following handball probably just laughs when they see an "expert" like you trying to comment on an American referee...

An ex-referee... and those two specific guys haven't officiated since last season—now they’re busy being supervisors and sitting on the UHRS administrative boards...

Look, don't take all your frustrations out on me—I highly doubt you ever made it past a local recreational league, let alone the pros... or any EHF or IHF tournaments... and honestly, if a referee actually reaches that level, they deserve some respect.

There will always be refs with an "agenda"... doesn't mean everyone falls into that trap.

The only thing I’m doing here is breaking down questionable calls... nothing else. I'm not here to lecture anyone... unlike you.

I realized a long time ago that players will blame even the best officials in the world—you miss ten fast breaks in a game, lose by two points, and suddenly the refs are the problem. Sure, why not?

Do us all a favor and dial back the insults. Ad hominem attacks aren't actual arguments, and frankly, they're pretty unacceptable in a civilized discussion. Your entire post is essentially meaningless because there isn't a single valid point in it.

So, go ahead—take your little tantrum somewhere else.

And one more thing: what does commenting on a ref have to do with their actual quality? If Americans, Brazilians, and other "handball superpowers" get to have their officials at major championships, then at least Sokol-Posavec deserves a fair shot...
Bryan Nelson352 said:We need someone like Lac—pure gold—against the French, plus an efficient deep 3-2-1 defense...

Oh yeah, we definitely need that 3-2-1... just so we can give Abalo even more chances to tear us apart from the wing...🤣

Wait, isn't that the same guy who absolutely demolished us in our last game against France?

And god forbid we try that "famous" 3-2-1 setup where we basically just aim to block the shot—or, you know, actually stop the ball...

As far as I'm aware, that’s not exactly how you play a 3-2-1...
Anthony Wilson4 said:Yeah, obviously the defense... we're nothing without it... and honestly, ever since David joined the squad, there's actually been some hope... just remember, he was arguably the most "fired up" to take down the Frenchmen last year—he was the guy who grabbed that red card right when we might have actually had a shot at turning the game around.

Someone wrote—I think it was Bolton—that modern handball is all about fast ball movement and creating mismatches... and yeah, that's true enough.

But you also have to factor in a top-tier defense—the kind the French guys pull off... playing good defense is way harder than running an offense, let me tell you.

Because if your defense is garbage, it doesn't matter if you've got Omeyer, Hvidt, or Sol in their prime standing in the net... you aren't winning anything.

You win games by shutting down those outside shooters... and for that, the keeper needs help from a defense that knows how to step out on them (like a 3-2-1 setup) or a solid 6-0 wall that blocks shots and prevents the ball from reaching the line or moving easily to the wings.

The stuff where a goalie saves two or three fast breaks or a couple of penalties? That’s practically negligible. Look at the US as a perfect example... if we had Lac and Pero firing on all cylinders like they did in Portugal or Athens, we wouldn't be losing sleep over a few missed seven-meter shots.

When the backline isn't clicking, everything falls on penalties and breakaway goals... which just adds this massive psychological weight to whoever is stepping up for that 7m shot. They know they *have* to score because the rest of the lineup is struggling.

If the backline played the way Lac did against Norway (assuming Pero finally finds his rhythm too), even Lino could handle the penalty duties.
Handball Euro: USA vs. Norway ends in a 23-23 draw in Other Sports ·
Chris Lopez59 said:What exactly were they leaning toward? What kind of favors were the refs actually handing out to them?
A little bit of compensation here and there—nothing major, just enough to keep things moving.
The Norwegians get four minutes, we get ten—including two double suspensions... you really think four minutes of penalties is enough to account for all the absolute beatdowns they handed out?

And just how exactly did those refs manage to prevent a full-blown brawl? By calling that four-minute timeout? Please. Give me a break.

Honestly, it would have been even better if they hadn't called that one, too. ☕

Let’s be real—the Norwegians were playing it incredibly smart. They knew exactly how much they could get away with, keeping those hits just "subtle" enough so the whole thing wouldn't devolve into an all-out brawl. Honestly, you have to hand it to the French officials; they practically policed them during that previous match to make sure things didn't spiral out of control. It was calculated.

Alright, figured I’d finally jump into this debate... work was a bit more of a grind than usual today, so I haven't really had a second to breathe, let alone chime in.
So, just to flex a little bit—I’ve been busy getting everything squared away for the trip to Norway. Flights are booked, tickets for the semifinals and the finals are all set... yeah, I'm basically running this whole operation at this point.🙂...who knows, maybe I'll run into the Queen of Torcida while I'm out.

As far as the officiating goes... it wasn't actually that bad—at least if you compare it to how much the refs tended to favor the home teams during past championships... or even look at that Romanian duo handling the Norway-Norway matchup.

Those first two penalties they gave to Norway? Total garbage. Let’s be real—on that first one, Dominiković was clearly positioned in the crease, practically holding the shooter back. And get this: the guy had his back turned to the goal. How is someone with their back to the net considered an immediate scoring threat? It’s a textbook nine-meter shot, nothing more. If you aren't facing the goal, you aren't in a scoring position. Plus, Dominiković was partially shoved into the area. Just a complete mess of a call.

On that second penalty, the players—Balić and either Špoljarić or Metličić—jumped into the block from out of bounds, but they didn't even touch the player or the ball... nothing. Now, if you want to talk about when a penalty actually gets called, look at the very next play. That’s when the Norwegians jumped in from the crease and blocked our guy's shot, knocking the ball out of the zone—that's the kind of situation that earns you a penalty.

People are still losing their minds over the whole seven-meter penalty debate—it’s one of those endless arguments that never seems to die down. You’ve got these folks who swear it’s a penalty even if the player jumps completely out of bounds and blocks the shot while mid-air... they argue that the 6-meter line acts like some kind of impenetrable wall that you aren't allowed to jump over into the crease. Honestly, it sounds ridiculous to me—especially when you look at how the "zeppelin" play works, where a player basically dives into the keeper's space on a teammate's assist just to snag the ball. It's all pretty inconsistent if you ask me.

We end up with ten minutes of suspensions while they only get four—it’s ridiculous. If you ignore that stupidly obvious foot fault from the Vorijevo play (which was clearly intentional, and honestly, the refs were practically begging for an excuse to blow the whistle there), we would’ve had eight minutes of advantage against them, and the Norwegians would’ve been sitting in the penalty box for four. Plus, let's be real, there were at least two other blatant calls where the refs should have tossed those Norwegians out of the game entirely. But hey, you have to factor in how the officials basically gave Dominiković a free pass on that shove through the lane right after the last timeout. Typical.

First off, that "double" suspension? Totally justified. You saw it—the guy was pulling the Norwegian player from behind. It was blatant. As for the second one, we got hit because of that little moment where Vorijev decided to play soccer instead of handball. Just classic.

The officiating was pretty much spot on—they kept both the Norwegians and Balić in check. There was that one moment with the double ball situation where the refs tried to justify giving the Norwegians a 9-meter throw by claiming they were just a split second late on the call... typical.

Every single one of Metličić's drives was totally justified—well, except for that last one where the refs completely lost the plot. There was absolutely no foul there. It’s especially ridiculous when you consider the linesman behind the goal was calling it a charge, which is supposed to be the main field official's territory—so why even bother insisting on a call like that? In my book, that was easily the biggest blunder the officiating crew made all night.

Honestly, Sušeć was the only one getting under my skin here—he actually thought that because Metličić got injured, it somehow constituted a foul against him. Give me a break. An injury has absolutely nothing to do with whether a foul occurred. I still remember this one time I was officiating a game and had to call a charging violation; the player involved ended up dislocating his shoulder during the collision. Just because he suffered a dislocation didn't mean I couldn't call the charge. It’s about the mechanics of how the foul happened during the play, not whether someone ends up in the training room. Simple as that.

And they missed another penalty call for Cupić too...

All things considered, the officiating wasn't terrible—look, nobody calls a game perfectly every single time. It’s really just about figuring out when someone is actually making a mistake versus when they're intentionally playing dirty...
Handball Euro: USA vs. Norway ends in a 23-23 draw in Other Sports ·
wearyeagle2 said:The folks running the handball federations and associations definitely know what's up. Word is, over in Norway, they hold meetings specifically about this exact issue. They’re pushing for the World Cup and the European Championship to be held every four years—just like soccer. That way, they could pull off even bigger, more lavish events, and honestly, it would give the whole thing a lot more prestige and weight.

That isn't quite the full picture. Right now, the EHF and the IHF are basically at war over who actually gets to call the shots regarding tournament organization... and let's be real, the core of the fight is money. The organizer walks away with the lion's share of the cash...

That’s exactly why we have tournaments every single year... it's all about squeezing out as much revenue as possible...
Things won't really start moving in the right direction until the EHF and the IHF finally stop bickering and reach an agreement...

And setting aside the international tournaments for a second, the clubs playing in the Champions League have started putting on the pressure regarding how the money is split up... up until now, the EHF has been pocketing most of those Champions League funds... but now the clubs want the biggest slice of the pie... if they don't get it, they're threatening to just start their own league altogether... and since you've got 32 major clubs involved here, that might actually turn into something real...
Handball Europe: America vs. Norway 23-23 in Other Sports ·
Chris Lopez59 said:What are you actually expecting from the Spanish officials tonight? What kind of criteria are they using—how objective is this officiating going to be?

Like I already mentioned over in the other thread, I’m just hoping for some actual objectivity... mostly because the Spaniards are eyeing that final spot... and if they want a fair shake in the championship game, they really need to bring their A-game in the matches leading up to it.

@Dana Peterson39/">@@Dana Peterson39
Those analyzed plays and calling a timeout after a consultation aren't mistakes—it would actually be a mistake if they didn't do it... but, like you said, that doesn't mean we have to be happy with the outcome...😉
My advice? Don't let that happen more than twice a game... though ideally, it shouldn't happen at all, but that really depends on how well you and your partner read the flow of the game.

As for the ratings, I haven't a clue—that's pretty subjective and entirely dependent on whoever the supervisor happens to be...
Handball Europe: America vs. Norway 23-23 in Other Sports ·
Chris Lopez59 said:we aren't exactly more rested than the Norwegians—it’s going to be a grind on that front—but the guys will leave everything out there on the floor.

The French refs were handing the Norwegians everything they wanted, probably because they'd rather not have to deal with a hostile home crowd... bad vibes, honestly.

So, now, let's just pray to God we don't get the French officiating again tonight.😁

There is no way the French are officiating—like you mentioned in that other thread—total conflict of interest.

18:15
Canada – Denmark
Lemme / Ullrich (Germany) ...referees
Schebeczeck (Author) ...supervisor
Guerrero (Spain)...observer

20:15
USA – Norway
Breto / Huelin (Spain)

Coelho (Portugal)
Van Linder (Netherlands)

I wasn't even counting on the Breto-Huelin pair, mostly because they called the game against Mexico against us... the reserve pair for our match is Ljudovik-Vakula, while Bor-Buy is handling Poland-Mexico.