1. VER 2. Lewis Hamilton 3. Valtteri Bottas 4. Sergio Perez 5. SAI 6. LEC 7. GAS 8. NOR 9. RIC 10. VET 11. ALO 12. OCO 13. Russian 14. STR 15. RAI 16. TSU 17. GIO 18. Monaco Grand Prix 19. LAT 20. Mazda
1. VER 2. Hamilton 3. BOT 4. PER 5. SAI 6. LEC 7. GAS 8. NOR 9. RIC 10. vet 11. ALO 12. OCO 13. Russ 14. STR 15. RAI 16. TSU 17. GIO 18. Monaco Grand Prix 20. 19. LAT 20. MAZ
1. Hamilton 2. Max Verstappen 3. Valtteri Bottas 4. Lando Norris 5. Sergio Perez 6. Charles Leclerc 7. Pierre Gasly 8. Carlos Sainz 9. Daniel Ricciardo 10. Sebastian Vettel 11. Fernando Alonso 12. Esteban Ocon 13. روس 14. Lance Stroll 15. Kimi Räikkönen 16. Yuki Tsunoda 17. Antonio Giovinazzi 18. Mick Schumacher 19. Nicholas Latifi 20. MAZ
I honestly think you're doing an awesome job here, and I’d feel the exact same way regardless of how this whole situation blew up. Let's all grab a drink after the season wraps up and hash it out—we can decide if the majority actually wants to go back to using qualifying times instead of the starting grid. 👍
Look, I don't have any issues with the potential stewards' review for Monaco, even if the circumstances aren't exactly the same. But this whole situation happening right here, right now? Yeah, I definitely have an issue with that.
The moderator only asked the question because seven people voted for Hamilton even though everyone knew he was going to get penalized. Out of those seven, six of them didn't actually get what was being looked at—they just didn't know. As for the last one, you, I can't tell if you just didn't know or if you just didn't get it. Honestly, the moderator's only mistake here was asking the question in the first place. But he did it, like he said, just so it wouldn't look like he was playing favorites.
We'll get the voting results and the final standings from the last Race tomorrow. Once the championship wraps up, we can sit down and hash out what we should be watching. So, please, everyone just stop with the unnecessary drama.
The Race Director really does make the calls when things fall through the cracks of the rulebook. But honestly, that’s not even the point here. The real issue is just that some drivers were totally left in the dark about how penalties actually work when the qualifying winner gets hit. Not knowing the rules isn't really anyone's problem except for the person who's confused. From where I'm sitting, if you just stop obsessing over the lack of clarity, you're basically just making drama out of how people interpret the regulations.
Edit: Now I’m gonna end up looking like I'm trying to snatch the win away from cosmicridge5, but that’s not it at all. It’s just that I don't see the point in handing out points to people who followed the rules when they interpreted Hamilton's penalty that way. Honestly, I'd much rather they just make a concession for everyone who was confused and award the points to Hamilton too.
Everything makes sense now. I'm glad the extra bit in the rulebook cleared things up for you, because it probably wasn't just you—it was me, TBF1D, Terry Carter2, and shadowstag10 too. This is basically just a formal extension of what we've all been thinking all along.
I'm skipping all the fluff because I feel like we already have an understanding here. Just give me a quick answer on how we're playing this: 1) Use the Final starting grid like usual, or 2) Go back to using qualifying results like they did back in 2012?
If it's 1), which is what I'm betting on, then nothing really changes. In that case, I'm calling on the moderator to officially recognize Valtteri Bottas for all of us who called him correctly.
Look, I think we’re all on the same page here—shadowstag10 needs to just make a call and get it over with. Whether they decide to go with the qualifying results or the actual starting grid, that's the specific wording that needs to be baked into rule number two of the regulations. As far as this race goes, personally, I don't see any drama regardless of what they choose. They could just hand out the points to both Mercedes drivers and call it a day.
graniteharbor502 said:To issue isn't actually anything new within this championship.
Back in 2012, we saw this exact same debate sparked by this post.
At that time, the rule was adjusted so that the distinction shifted from the winner of qualifying to whoever actually takes the first starting spot on the grid—something I only just realized myself. Is it really necessary to have this rule at all, or perhaps it simply needs a more thorough refinement? I wonder what the other competitors think about this matter.
My own suggestion would be that for the Democratic Party, we should strictly adhere to the official FIA results immediately following the qualifying sessions. By doing so, we could sidestep all the messy complications involving post-race penalties, pit lane malfunctions, or issues during the warm-up lap and such.
Honestly, reading this felt like digging up a freaking time capsule... 🙏 🙏 I don't remember much from back then, but looking at the old threads, it looks like the race situation was pretty much identical to what happened yesterday. Even Lewis Hamilton got stripped of his pole position back then too. Over here, TBF explained how they adjusted point 2 to become what we see today:
That only needs fixing if we decide to look at the qualifying results instead of just the starting grid positions. Because right now, it clearly states who starts first, and when I actually went back to check Rule 2, there really isn't any ambiguity about it. It literally says:
2. The championship works by having competitors publish their predicted full grid order within the designated timeframe, based on how they think the race will finish, along with two extra picks: the driver starting from the best grid position and the driver who sets the fastest lap. Competitors can post their predictions as soon as the previous deadline passes, and no later than the scheduled start of Free Practice 3 during a race weekend; this deadline applies to every single race in the season. Participants can edit their picks or submit new ones an unlimited number of times until that deadline hits.
Look, if we’re going to change the rules just because qualifying results feel more "natural" to us—even though things could easily shift, like if Bottas picks up a penalty and loses pole—then I think we should handle that during the off-season, not in the middle of the season.
It’s a toss-up, and just like any high-stakes situation, the team principal is going to have to make the final call. The rest of us are just shouting our opinions into the void.
Here’s how I see it: everyone knew before qualifying even started that Lewis Hamilton had a new engine coming in, which means he wasn't starting from pole regardless of where he landed in the sessions. This wasn't some sudden move by the FIA officials—the kind of mess people used to complain about in our rulebook—because the stewards weren't messing with the results. It was actually Mercedes making a tactical sacrifice. They gave up Lewis Hamilton's pole position on purpose because they figured it’s much easier to claw back lost ground in a place like Turkey than anywhere else. That's why Valtteri Bottas is taking the pole.