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Posts by Karen Richardson3

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Grading Freshmen in Students & Teens ·
You know, I’ve been wondering what the professors would say about this: how do American students actually stack up against the rest of the world in international competitions these days?

I mean, given how many brilliant, diamond-in-the-rough kids we have and just how intense our school curriculum is—which so many people seem to breeze through with top marks—I can't help but assume we're absolutely crushing it on the global stage, right?
Grading Freshmen in Students & Teens ·
frozenrider15 said:That all sounds lovely and idyllic, but if you don't have children yet, you're in for a rude awakening when reality hits. Once a child starts school, you'll realize there's an unspoken expectation that parents act as unpaid teaching assistants to meet the school's demands.
True, what you and your child expect from the school matters. What are your expectations regarding grades? Do you even have any? Would you—and would your child—actually be satisfied with mediocre grades just because it meant you didn't have to "work" through schoolwork at home? If straight A's aren't your priority, they aren't mine either. I know my kid, and I know the hurdles we'll face once they start school. That said, I'm not saying I won't step in if it becomes necessary to help them grasp a concept. I'll do what I can to make things easier for them, not just to chase a perfect GPA.

Back in my day, nobody sat down with me to help with homework, not in first grade or any grade thereafter (I didn't attend after-school programs). Nobody tutored me; they just listened while I read aloud. I can't recall much about literature assignments 🤔 so I won't dwell on that, but the fact remains: very few kids today can manage their schoolwork entirely on their own. It's not because they're less intelligent; it's because they're different. Their lifestyle is fundamentally different, just like someone mentioned earlier... kids today lack the foundational experiences we used to bring into the classroom. They don't notice changes in nature firsthand (they have to "study" and "memorize" them later in a desk), they don't necessarily know basic terminology like the difference between a curb and a sidewalk (they lack that vocabulary, so learning it feels like extra work), and while they can recite the days of the week like a nursery rhyme, asking them which day it was yesterday can be a struggle... there are countless things we adults take for granted that our children simply "know." Today's kids don't even know how to behave on a public bus (this is just an observation from my little one, so please, no offense intended), and they can't describe the route from their house to school (because we drive them everywhere). It's exhausting when they struggle to memorize a simple poem because the skill of rote memorization hasn't been developed. When I was young, I knew dozens of songs by heart, phone numbers, and we were given at least one poem a week to memorize. Nowadays, it's a massive ordeal if a child has to remember three stanzas of a song for music class.

So, you're telling me that out of all the tools a parent has—from hiking through the woods to hitting up a science museum, from watching smart documentaries to browsing encyclopedias at the local library or checking out cool educational websites—none of that actually matters during the preschool years?

If that's the case, what exactly are parents teaching their kids these days? Is it just which seasonal sales are happening or what the newest iPhone model is?

I honestly don't get it.

Actually, I do get it, but it's probably too rude to say it out loud.
Grading Freshmen in Students & Teens ·
summer: honestly, I bet parents of kids in middle school feel the exact same way when they flip through those history textbooks—they just stare at them in disbelief, totally missing the fact that you basically have to boil an entire chapter down to five tiny bullet points just to write them in a notebook.

but let’s be real for a second about what’s actually happening here: everyone is convinced their kid is some kind of genius who absolutely deserves an A, when the reality is that every single classroom follows the same pattern—you’ve got a few superstars, a few kids who struggle, and then a whole bunch of average students.

so the real issue is that the complaining mostly comes from the parents whose kids are just sitting right in that average bracket. it feels like there's this massive push to force kids, who might have been perfectly happy heading toward a trade school or a specialized vocational program, straight into elite prep schools and four-year universities.

I mean, look at how things are going lately: the curriculum has never been more intense, you've got these exhausted parents staying up late helping their kids study, and then suddenly everyone is bragging about a record-breaking number of Honor Roll students.
basically, these high grades are being manufactured. if you have to sit there and coach a kid through every single step of their middle school work just to get them an A, then that kid isn't actually hitting those marks on their own, and frankly, they haven't earned that grade.
Grading Freshmen in Students & Teens ·
feralgardener33 said:A hundred-page reading assignment for a first grader?! And parents are just expected to do the heavy lifting for them?!
Then you have people claiming kids today don't have it as hard as we did, arguing that they're "less burdened" because parts of the curriculum get cut every year (if that's the case, what on earth were we dealing with back then?)
Let me be clear: during my first four years of elementary school, I didn't do a single thing at home. Nothing. Zero. All my homework and studying happened strictly within the school walls since I was in an after-school program. Do you teachers actually grasp how little time a parent truly has with their child once school starts? If a kid is expected to spend every waking hour on academics, all other activities just fall by the wayside. It’s not right.
And what you just wrote honestly shocked me. Are you suggesting that only the "super intelligent" types—those with some supposedly advanced way of thinking—deserve straight A's? That they just got lucky at birth or happen to have highly educated parents, while everyone else is predestined to struggle with C's and B's regardless of how much effort or heart they put into their work? That's just awful.

To be totally honest, looking at the elementary kids I know right now, they aren't struggling like this; it feels like the only place where people are constantly complaining about how impossible the curriculum has become is on internet forums.
School closures/delays? in Students & Teens ·
urbantinker8 said:could you define what you mean by "highly involved moms"?😁
mine will be starting at 6 years and 8 months.
that seems about right.

personally, I absolutely loved elementary school; it’s one of those periods of my life I look back on with a lot of warmth and genuine fondness.😍

high school, though, was just awful.
the atmosphere was way too competitive, and the teachers were just so demanding in that old-school sort of way...🙂

Honestly, it’s just anyone who actually gives a damn and thinks about it. The other type? They just sign the kids up when they absolutely have to and call it a day. 😁 But even among the ones who really put in the thought, I haven't heard a single person say, "Yeah, my six-year-old is totally ready." It feels like everyone's kid is still just emotionally hitting their stride and isn't quite there yet. 😁

What are the actual, massive differences between a six-year-old and a seven-year-old? To be real with you, it all looks pretty much the same to me—especially when it comes to stuff like being able to sit still or staying home alone without losing it. 🤷
School closures/delays? in Students & Teens ·
I honestly find it just as weird that kids are getting bored so early; my own experience was totally different, where that sense of boredom doesn't really kick in until they hit those middle school years around 5th or 6th grade when puberty starts hitting.
That’s exactly why I’m not a fan of this whole idea of pushing back school enrollment indefinitely, because you'll just end up with a kid in the lower grades who completely loses interest in learning.

To give you an idea, I didn't even start school until I was six, and at that point, I couldn't even read yet, but my mom never made a huge deal out of how I was feeling emotionally. The only thing that ever really happened was people praising how fast I caught up—since most kids in my class could already read, given I was part of that early 80s generation.

I get this impression that all these "over-involved moms" seem to think their little ones aren't ready for school until they're 7 or 8 years old.😳
(At least based on what I'm seeing here on the forum; I haven't come across a single person saying, "Actually, my kid is perfectly ready to start at age six.").
What should I get for a godparent gift at a Baptism? in Students & Teens ·
Linda Price5 said:Looking back at this thread, I’ve come to realize that my parents' decision to skip my baptism—and my own subsequent choice to avoid communion, confirmation, and all that religious ritual—was easily one of the most foolish financial decisions I've ever made. 😢

Look, I actually went through with the whole baptism and communion thing back when I was in fifth grade 😁, but the old folks in my family picked such cheapskates to be my godparents that I can't even remember receiving a single gift.
I mean, I definitely would have remembered a laptop or maybe a scooter. Heck, I’d even settle for a nice watch; I’m pretty low-maintenance like that 😳

By the time I hit eighth grade, I was totally over the whole religion thing. But lately, I’ve been thinking about making a comeback. I mean, I really need a new car, or honestly, just someone to come renovate my bedroom
.
Anyway, this has gotta be my favorite thread on the entire internet.
School closures/delays? in Students & Teens ·
Honestly, growing up, I never really saw any real pattern between how old you were, how tall you were, or when you actually started your period. For instance, I was one of those kids who was pretty tall and sturdy back in elementary school, yet I didn't get my period until four years after my best friend, who was super tiny and petite—and she never even really developed much of a figure. Meanwhile, some girls who were way shorter and smaller than both of us were already going through it by the seventh grade 😁
granitetiger69 said:Man, seriously... if we can't even talk about movies that are BASED ON BOOKS that came out years ago.
God, man. 🤦
Like someone actually spoiled that Voldemort dies or something.

It's more serious, I guess. But you really can't compare it to HP 7, Part 1.
That one was dark.
This one feels... kinda lukewarm and pretentious.
It lacks depth. And that depth is all in the book.
As a fan, I think they handled it pretty poorly.
They should have shown her as someone falling apart, but instead, she’s got perfect hair, perfect skin, and flawless clothes.
The dialogue feels shallow.
The whole thing with Effie's trauma—what the Capitol did to her after the games and how she and the others changed—was just tossed aside, making her feel like a caricature for Katniss to wear.
I don't know, I wish the acting was better. But Jennifer Lawrence is overacting. Seems like she's regressed.
There are just way too many flaws in this one.
Even the atmosphere isn't really there.

I guess my expectations were so low going in that I actually ended up being somewhat pleasantly surprised.
In both the first and second parts, when they're actually in the middle of the games, they're supposed to be going through these grueling, life-threatening struggles, yet they come out looking like they haven't even broken a sweat.
The most glaring example is how Peeta loses his leg in the books, but they barely touch on that level of consequence. 😉

I actually found the dialogue somewhat tolerable, especially considering how cheesy the romantic lines were in the first two movies.

I was also expecting more repetition of that "I am Katniss Everdeen..." line. In the book, the way she keeps repeating that really hits home for you.
Just like the whole "real or not real" thing.

We'll just have to see how they handle the final installment. Honestly, given how brutal the ending of the book is, I wouldn't even be shocked if they decide to go in a completely different direction.
James Martin4 said:It didn't look anything like that in the movie, though. That scene where she remembers him giving her the bread made it seem like she was just mad at him because he tossed it like she was some kind of stray dog, so she's just acting standoffish toward him.

I think a ton of people interpreted it that way too 😁

But honestly, they totally butchered that scene in the adaptation.
In Part 1, they’re supposed to be about ten years old right then. She’s walking home starving because she couldn't find a single thing to eat, and she's just hit rock bottom and doesn't know what else to do—her mom is having a total mental breakdown and can't even get out of bed, plus she's got a little sister to worry about.
She’s scavenging through the trash when Peeta spots her from the bakery window, and he intentionally lets the bread burn just so he has an excuse. His mom hits him for it and tells him to just toss the burnt bread to the pigs, but instead, he gives it to Katniss. That bread ends up being the very first thing they eat for days, and it becomes this massive symbol of hope—it's the idea that a complete stranger actually cares enough to help her and give her the strength to keep going.

In the movie, they try to show they're younger just by giving Peeta that ridiculous haircut 😁 and it’s never actually clear if he's trying to humiliate her by throwing the bread or what the actual vibe is supposed to be.
casualsailor said:Alright, let's talk about this—why Peeta actually matters to Katniss

Because he's big and strong, right? 🙂
Just kidding. But honestly, it kind of bugs me that in the movies, Peeta looks smaller than Katniss. I know, I know, I'm being totally superficial here, but still. 😁

If you look at the actual story, Peeta was absolutely vital to her survival after her dad passed away. Back when they were literally starving and her mom had just checked out emotionally, he was the one who stepped up. He gave her that bread during their absolute lowest point, doing it selflessly even though he ended up taking a beating for burning it. And then there’s that moment at school where she catches him looking at her, she spots an edible plant, and suddenly realizes how she can actually survive—that she needs to head into the woods to forage. That spark is what eventually helps her mom start showing up for her and her sister again.

In my book, the whole romance arc in the novels is actually pretty solid, especially considering it's a YA series—for that specific genre, I really dig how they handle the complexities of it.
Gale is basically her mirror image in terms of personality and lifestyle, whereas Peeta acts as her total counterbalance.

In the movies, Gale is clearly the eye candy, while Peeta... I don't even know what to call him. 😁

I personally find this to be such a sweet teen romance. As far as the films go, I can't really be objective, but my biggest gripe is that they went with a PG-13 rating. Though, someone made a great point earlier: if they had tried to adapt the first two books exactly as they were written in the novels, it wouldn't have been an adventure movie—it would have been straight-up horror. 😁
Kimberly Castillo22 said:The movie was a bit slow, honestly. I haven't read the books or anything, but I found it pretty interesting mostly because they didn't portray him like some kind of Ramb. Like, he's not just gonna step up and take charge of everything, you know? He’s more like a guy who’s just totally crushed by it all.
I guess it would've been super cliché and typical American if she turned into some big-shot general standing in front of troops, giving orders and stuff.

That scene where Peeta starts choking was really good, and the one at the end was even better. It actually kind of shook me up, I guess.

Overall, I’ll probably have to watch it again before the final part just to refresh my memory, but yeah, it was okay.

The only thing I didn't really get was what they did to Peet with those wasps? That part flew right over my head.

Those were those lab-grown wasps from the first movie, where a single sting triggers hallucinations (and more than one sting is basically game over).

They were essentially using them to trip him out and induce these massive hallucinations, doing all this shady stuff to mess with his head so he'd actually believe Katniss was the enemy he needed to take down.
John Sullivan5 said:Fair point, I might have just mixed up the timeline regarding when it all comes out, so no biggie if that's the case. 👍

Man, if they had cut it during the choking part, I would've been absolutely livid. 😵 Nah, what they did was pretty effective. Almin's speech paired with Peeta acting mentally unstable while Katniss watches was actually great. But I can't shake the feeling that things would've been better if they sped up the stuff happening in District 2—like, imagine if the final book was entirely focused on the assault on The Capitol and everything that follows.
I just looked it up, and Tigris was a woman. If they cut her, they might also ditch that scene where Gale and Peeta are in her basement talking about who he's going to end up with while she's "sleeping," which would be a huge bummer. We'll see, though. 😁

Now we just gotta survive another year. There's so much potential for some brutal, amazing scenes that this is gonna be a blast to watch.

Honestly, I wouldn't even want that scene included because the whole "love triangle" thing feels so poorly executed to me... and I think adding a scene like that would be totally pointless since the movie didn't even do a good job explaining why Peeta matters so much to Katniss in the first place.

To be real with you guys, based on how the first movie played out, I spent most of my time thinking Peeta was actually kind of a jerk. And that whole bread scene? It was handled so clumsily and made so little sense that I don't even feel like getting into it. 😁
Honestly, I’m actually pleasantly surprised here. 🙂

To me, the second installment felt like a bit of a mess in terms of adaptation; you could really feel the influence of the Summit too much. That whole Katniss-Peeta-Gale love triangle was pushed way too hard into the spotlight, and the fight scenes felt way too polished and "Hollywood," which just missed the mark for me.

So, I went into the third book's adaptation with the same expectations—that they’d throw in random fights for the sake of it and try to reshape Katniss into this fearless warrior who never breaks down.
But man, she *has* to break down. That’s literally the entire point of her character—she’s completely overwhelmed by everything happening, not some untouchable superhero saving the world.

Given how much younger audiences at the local AMC usually complain (you know, saying things are boring or lack action), and considering that a huge chunk of readers don't even like the third book anyway—I assume because they aren't in the arena fighting anymore, which is apparently the only thing people care about?—it's a bold move to risk splitting such a book into two movies.

Still, from my perspective, I really have to thank the director for sticking so closely to the book, which is easily my favorite one in the trilogy.

It actually caught me off guard how emotional some of those scenes were. Hanging Tree was absolutely beautiful 👍, even though I had a totally different melody playing in my head while reading.
If I had to nitpick, maybe they could have explained the inner workings of District 13 a little more clearly, but then again, someone who hasn't read the books wouldn't be able to tell.

The male leads are still my biggest issue, though. In my opinion, the casting was a total swing and a miss. I can tolerate the guy playing Gale as long as he stays quiet, but the second he starts talking, it becomes almost impossible to watch.
And Peeta... 🕺

2 John Sullivan5:
I was expecting them to cut it off right when Peeta starts choking (which is basically where the book ends), but I guess they wanted to include the teaser for the attack on District 2. Honestly, I didn't mind the ending at all—having Coin giving that big speech while cutting back to the broken state of Katniss and Peeta worked really well for me.

As for Finnick, I can't quite recall who uncovered the whole rose and poison thing, but Finnick gave a speech where he was exposing secrets... they might be cutting out that female character you mentioned.
The third book hits completely differently.
Since everything is told from her perspective, you really feel how broken and borderline unstable Katniss has become after everything she went through in the first two installments.
It’s actually baked right into the prose; her internal monologues are filled with this repetitive "I am Katniss..." mantra, which almost feels like a mental lifeline keeping her from totally losing it.

She isn't even front-and-center for most of the actual combat, so we mostly experience the chaos of war through quick, jagged conversations with the people around her.

In a way, she’s a total anti-hero, especially if you're looking at it from the angle where everyone expects her to be this shining symbol of hope stepping up to save the world.

Plus, the way the story handles the whole concept of wartime propaganda and public relations is just spot on.

Honestly, it’s my absolute favorite of the series, even though a lot of fans tend to overlook it, and I think it would be a massive challenge to adapt to the big screen—especially given how much pressure there is to turn these things into mindless blockbusters.
School Reform: Thoughts? in Students & Teens ·
I don't really know what to make of this, but honestly, it feels like we're all just kind of drifting through these digital spaces without a real compass, you know? It’s like when you’re driving down a long stretch of highway in the Midwest, nothing but cornfields for miles, and you realize you haven't seen a single exit sign in twenty minutes—you start questioning if you even turned off at the right junction or if you've been circling the same loop the whole time. That's how some of these discussions feel to me lately, just a bit fuzzy and lacking that sharp, clear direction we usually look for. I’m not trying to be a buzzkill or anything, I genuinely want to find some substance here, but sometimes it feels like we're just throwing words into a void and hoping something sticks. It’s an odd sensation, being both present and totally lost at the same time, but I guess that's just part of the experience, isn't it? kaže:
It feels like nobody ever bothered to point out that the whole point of history class should actually be about sharpening our critical thinking skills rather than just memorizing dates.
Look, my main goal here is really just to lay out the heavy-hitting facts first and foremost, because you can't build anything solid without that foundation. Once we’ve got all those pieces on the table, then—and only then—is it time for the second level of the game, which is actually forming a real opinion and working on developing some actual critical thinking skills.
Look, if you haven't actually done the homework or gotten your hands on the actual facts, it’s pretty much impossible to form a real opinion that carries any weight. It's like trying to give a deep analysis of a Broadway play when you haven't even seen the opening night performance—you're just guessing based on rumors rather than what's actually happening on stage.🤷

Someone was claiming that the whole point of school is to foster critical thinking skills, which honestly makes me wonder which subject is actually supposed to handle that—because if you ask me, it should be history. But let’s be real for a second: history class is about as far from critical analysis as you can get.
The real kicker here, and honestly the biggest issue we're facing, is that they aren't even bothering to lay out the actual facts upfront. It’s like they’re trying to build a whole house without ever showing you the foundation or the blueprints first.

If we actually sat down and taught history based on nothing but the raw, unvarnished facts, honestly, we wouldn’t even need to update the textbooks every few years; students in the 1980s, the mid-90s, and today would all be learning the exact same story.

Honestly, I feel like the entire way they teach medieval history in our high schools is basically just modern-day mythology. If they actually sat us down and presented the raw facts instead of these polished legends, people might actually start developing some real critical thinking skills.
Let’s be real here—no government in the world is actually going to use history classes to fix this kind of stuff, because honestly, that would be like cutting off the very branch they're sitting on.

Honestly, I really couldn't agree more if someone tried to claim that "reading" just isn't part of the general culture once you've finished school, because let's be real—it absolutely exists and it's still happening. Literature is such a massive, sprawling thing to wrap your head around, isn't it? It’s like trying to map out the entire Pacific Ocean when you're just standing there with a bucket. You start with the heavy hitters—those giants whose names we all know because they basically built the foundation of how we tell stories—and then you realize there's this endless, beautiful mess of everything else underneath. It's not just about the stuff you had to read in high school to pass a test; it's about that specific feeling when a sentence hits you so hard it feels like a physical weight in your chest. It's like finding a perfectly worn-in pair of Levi's that fits just right, except instead of fabric, it's words that somehow explain exactly how you feel about life, even when you couldn't put it into words yourself. Whether it's some classic epic or a modern novel that feels like it was written specifically for your own messy life, literature is really just us humans trying to scream into the void and hoping someone else hears the echo. I just can't bring myself to respect someone's take on literature if they’ve never even heard of James Joyce or Ivan Lučić, yet somehow spend every single day devouring every little snippet written by Coca-Cola or Kim Kardashian instead of actually paying attention to someone who knows their way around the classics of American and world literature.

So, what you're basically asking is whether it’s better to just have a passing familiarity with someone like James Joyce without ever actually cracking open one of his books, rather than actually sitting down and getting lost in a story by Coca-Cola? It’s kind of like knowing all the stats and history of a legendary quarterback but never actually watching a single game versus being totally immersed in a modern blockbuster movie. One gives you the intellectual street cred, while the other actually gives you something to experience.
I honestly just can't wrap my head around that, if I'm being totally real with you. 🤷

Let’s be real, most people just aren't really looking to dive into the heavy hitters of world literature, you know? It’s like trying to run a marathon when you haven't even walked around the block yet; most folks would much rather just grab some light, breezy fiction that doesn't require a PhD to get through.

I mean, maybe—just maybe—we wouldn't have people struggling to find any interest in reading at all if schools actually let them dive into some high-quality contemporary authors instead of forcing them to bash their heads against the walls trying to make sense of the classics or stuff from the Renaissance and Baroque periods.

Shakespeare wrote about the people of his era specifically for the people living through it, and honestly, that’s exactly how he should be read. It really bugs me when people try to brush everything off with that tired excuse that "these are just timeless human problems." I mean, come on—there are countless authors out there today who are doing exactly what he did: writing about their own contemporary world for their own contemporaries. And if we actually gave those modern works a chance, they could be just as effective at helping kids develop a sense of critical thinking as the classics.

It feels like our whole academic system is just rigged, honestly. You’ve got these tenure-track history buffs who are so obsessed with pushing their own specific agendas that there's barely any room left to actually breathe, let alone study contemporary literature at the university level, much less expect anything meaningful to happen in our high schools.

I’ve always had this thing where I actually enjoy diving into books that people might dismiss as total trash, but honestly, there is so much substance there if you look closely enough. Take *The Hunger Games*, for example—I was absolutely obsessed with it. I truly believe that could be such an incredible tool for a classroom setting because it offers so much meat for discussing critical thinking, the desensitization to violence, the toxicity of reality TV, war, and how massive PR machines manipulate public perception. It would be such a blast to dissect a story like that in school, rather than being stuck reading something like *Where Time Stands Still*, which, if you ask me, feels more like the kind of stuff you'd read to pass the time in a nursing home.

I’m honestly losing my mind over this whole thread, so I think I need to just take a breather and step back for a second.
I honestly feel like you’ve gotta pin down exactly what the purpose of every single thing is first, but it can't just be some abstract theory floating around in space—it actually has to be rooted in the real world and based on what people truly need right now.

If the whole point of learning a foreign language is to actually get a handle on the basics so you can communicate, then I guess the goal of studying American English should be the same—mastering our own tongue. But honestly, just looking at how we teach it in schools makes me think we’ve completely lost the plot. When you see kids sitting in classrooms being forced to memorize rigid rules about syllable stress patterns and vowel lengths instead of just learning how to speak naturally, it really shows how stiff and outdated the entire system has become.
So, any language student out there probably remembers being told that "language is a living organism" and that it naturally evolves over time, but it feels like our academic linguists are desperately trying to freeze everything in the 1800s.
Things like pitch accent in spoken conversation have basically vanished, the vocative case is dying out, and I guess we’re all just "speaking incorrectly" now because some textbook says we should be stressing syllables differently...

But once you start digging into why things are stuck like this, you run right into the corruption within academia—basically these little cliques fighting tooth and nail for tenure and prestige—and you realize the whole system is just a total mess.

Anyway, thanks for listening. Peace out. 😁

P.S. My kid is starting elementary school in a couple of years, and they’ve already switched to tablets for all their lessons; I’ll let you guys know how it goes, though I'm sure it was all perfectly planned out and methodically brilliant! 😁
School Reform: Thoughts? in Students & Teens ·
urbantinker8 said:I think you might be grouping too many things together and generalizing a bit too much, if I may say so.
It’s a given that kids in a standard American high school will be taught about T.S. Eliot and the Revolutionary War.
Because part of the point of a preparatory high school is to provide a broader education than, say, a vocational school for chimney sweeps, and I suppose T.S. Eliot and historical conflicts are definitely part of that broader knowledge and general culture.
Still, most high schoolers are expected to go to college, so it would be rather awkward if they had no idea who T.S. Eliot was.
I guess you could forgive the chimney sweep for that.😁

The ones who are cheating, copying, and just sliding through the system are usually the students who chose a prep school simply because it sounds more prestigious than enrolling in an HVAC technician program. Even parents feel a certain shame if their child, heaven forbid, ends up in a three-year trade school.

As for derivatives and integrals, they aren't taught everywhere—it’s generally expected that if high schoolers have mastered those, they should also be able to handle basic interest calculations.
But butchers or pastry chefs aren't exactly being bothered with calculus.

You seem to be speaking somewhat off the cuff, I suppose.

The curriculum itself isn't the same, nor is the volume of material; there's a big difference between a prep school where you take history for two hours a week over four years or math for three or four hours, compared to a vocational school where you might only have history for one or two years at an hour or two a week, and math for two hours over three years.

🤣

I went to a prep school myself, and in my class, there were these three girls who were total "nerds"—meaning they actually sat down and studied for exams. For the rest of us, we spent most of our time in that school learning nothing but how to copy off someone else's paper.

Why was that? Well, we were juggling seventeen different subjects, hitting six or seven classes every single day, and since we weren't like those three girls who would head straight home to study for the next morning, we were busy doing what teenagers actually do—hanging out, falling in love, and just living life.

Whenever I look back on my high school years, the first thing that pops into my head is just the absolute mess and lack of organization everywhere.😁

But anyway, whatever. If we're talking about "developing critical thinking skills," here's my take:
If I were working in education, I’d teach history. It’s a total myth that the goal of teaching history is to foster critical thinking; in reality, the whole point is often just to indoctrinate young people with nationalistic myths. Almost everything taught regarding American history in high school gets categorized under "national mythology" once you get to a university level.

Also, regarding English literature classes—I truly believe the goal should be teaching students how to communicate using standard American English (which is basically what rowdypanther12 is getting at) and, as a higher aim, introducing them to works that actually make them want to pick up a book.
Instead, the reality is that language instruction is kept to a bare minimum, while kids are forced to slog through incredibly boring classics that drive them away from reading entirely, all under the guise of "these are the greats," "it's part of a well-rounded education," or "how could you not know who T.S. Eliot is?"

To me, being "well-read" means actually reading things after you finish school, not just knowing that Joyce wrote Ulysses without ever having actually held the book or read a single page.

And finally—one of the main products this kind of school system successfully churns out is a generation of graduates who flock to liberal arts degrees only to find themselves completely unemployable. They end up drifting into politics just to put food on the table. Basically, the idea that "school isn't just about job training, it's about expanding your spirit" creates an army of political science majors and philosophers who eventually join political parties just to survive, becoming tiny cogs in the machine of corruption in this country because, frankly, they have no other way to get a paycheck.
School Reform: Thoughts? in Students & Teens ·
David Jackson2 said:It’s not like the American education system doesn't need a serious overhaul or anything. It absolutely does—but we should probably start with how we hire teachers, the way they’re trained, and making sure there's actual continuous professional development instead of just... whatever currently exists. We also desperately need a standardized grading system. And I don't necessarily mean just slapping a number on everything, though if we do go the numerical route, it really needs to be rooted in actual written exams and projects with clear, objective rubrics.

As for the curriculum itself? Yeah, it needs some tweaking too, but honestly, things aren't quite the total catastrophe people seem to think they are.

If there's one thing that really gets me about a lot of the posts above, it's this mindset that education is just a tool to land a job or pick up specific technical skills you'll use at the office. That's only one tiny slice of what learning is supposed to do. Those "useless" details we were all forced to memorize back in school? They actually helped build critical thinking skills. Even pure rote memorization has its place in developing cognitive abilities—it’s not all wasted time.

A solid general culture is vital—and let's be real, for many people, it's what actually puts food on the table. Plus, someone with a broad, well-rounded education is much less likely to end up as a mindless political puppet without an ounce of their own opinion. It feels like that's becoming a bigger problem everywhere in the world lately.

But look at this: if that's true, then why on earth have generations of Americans ended up acting like mindless political pawns?
We’ve been teaching general culture for decades now, so why isn't it sticking? Where is the disconnect? What are we missing here? 😁

I really feel like we need to tackle these questions head-on before we even dream about jumping into school system reforms. 😁
School Reform: Thoughts? in Students & Teens ·
Just a side note: after grinding through all that heavy-duty math, we’re seeing graduates walk out of high schools who can't even figure out how much interest they'll owe on a car loan.

It’s wild—you end up with people who are basically clueless when it comes to managing their money, running a business, or just handling the basic logistics of adult life.

Honestly, you start wondering if there's some kind of cosmic joke at play here; like, sure, you need to master calculus and complex integrals, but heaven forbid you actually learn what different interest rates mean or how a standard mortgage repayment schedule works.
School Reform: Thoughts? in Students & Teens ·
rowdypanther12 said:It honestly bothers me that some people graduate from college and are barely literate, if that.
To me, that should be one of the core responsibilities of elementary school. Beyond just basic math, students need a solid grasp of geography and history. To even pass, you really need to be able to read and write properly. You don't need to know what an alliteration or a pleonasm is, but you definitely shouldn't be misspelling basic words.

Back when I was at Seattle Sounders FC studying American linguistics and literature, students would actually lose points on their lit exams just because of spelling errors—and we're talking basic stuff, like simple phonetic slips.

☕

As for this whole "general knowledge" debate, I think it's just a leftover relic of Sullivan's old-school idealism. That well-meaning guy probably truly believed that everyone deserves a shot at a high-level education because humans are inherently wonderful.
Fine, it was a specific moment in history and whatever.
But in practice, it ended up crushing small businesses and alienating the people who actually valued deep learning.

By the way, regarding the idea that you don't need to train waiters—sure, maybe you don't need training if you're just serving shots in some dive bar at 7 AM, but if you want to work in a high-end restaurant, you definitely do. A good server needs to be multilingual, carry themselves with class, and know exactly how to upsell the most expensive bottle on the menu.
At least the people I know working in hospitality swear by it.

Good grief, frupy... what are we even talking about here? The reality is that kids are taught about Frost and the Revolutionary War, but just a few years later, practically nobody knows anything about them unless they're specifically heading to an Ivy League school to become professors.
The truth is, they just don't care.
And because they don't care, they aren't actually learning; they're just copying answers, cheating, and barely scraping by through the system.
Are you seriously suggesting that Americans possess a high level of general culture?