Posts by Jessica Kelly4

I’m backing the request to open this thread. There’s way too much interest here, and people are bleeding into other topics where their posts are getting deleted because they don't belong there.

As for the mods, I’ll stay neutral. I respect The Edge as a moderator; he handles some pretty heated threads, and that isn't easy work. Still, shutting down a topic while it's still relevant isn't the right move, even if everyone is just talking in circles. 🤷

Ryan Vaughn7 said:We aren't going to be a free billboard for people pushing their little health and wellness agendas here.

On sites like Reddit, you see organized groups from the Democratic Party and the Republican Party, plus highly agile crews from organizations like DAVID and other anti-religious groups pumping out topics at an industrial pace.

So now one single thread is a "problem" just because it calls into question the credibility of the ZO creator? 😕

northerntiger said:I support the moderators' decision. At the same time, I’m asking the site admins to protect this forum from crusades against the Politics mods—specifically against Ryan Vaughn7. jadeseal4 already has two threads about this exact issue: how Ryan Vaughn7 moderates and how he shuts down topics that matter to him. Apparently, if something matters to one guy, it has to matter to everyone immediately. 😁

The engagement here shows people actually care. Honestly, it would be better for the community and easier on the staff if moderation focused on stopping insults and trolling rather than trying to control the direction of every debate. I'm sure Ryan Vaughn7 means well, but it feels like discussions are being stifled using some pretty unfair rules.

I’ve got respect for the moderators on this political board, especially Ryan Vaughn7, who probably had a hand in shutting this down. Honestly, I think the topic is way too big to just lock up or bury in some obscure corner of the forum. If certain posts don't fit the thread, they should be split into their own discussions instead of killing the whole conversation.

Pedophilia is a socio-political issue, plain and simple.
The legal side of things is just one narrow slice dealing with consequences. The real issues—the root causes—are buried in our value systems, which is where the actual debate needs to happen within politics and social sciences.

I’m with James Patel20 on this; Reddit shouldn't be stifling discussions regarding the political dimensions of the subject.

The age you enroll your kid really depends on how the school handles things. You’ll always find two camps fighting it out: instrumental teachers who want kids starting ASAP, and theory teachers who think they should wait a bit. In a place like Chicago, the consensus is usually that 3rd grade is the sweet spot.
I put my kid in during 1st grade, and honestly, I messed up. He just couldn't keep up with the music theory level, which was designed for older kids. Now he's stuck repeating his first year.

brightpuma said:Great... 🙄

So, what we really need is to split classrooms into two groups: those who just want to pass the basics taught in elementary school, and those who actually have an appetite for learning. That's basically how the American education system was built, right?

Besides, I never said we should ban books entirely—just swap them out. The current reading list is clearly outdated. That’s why I suggested tossing about half of them off the list...

Oh yeah, because we definitely need to be making fun of Americans. 🙄

brighteagle86 said:I find it hard to believe anyone could dislike *The Metamorphosis*.

It’s an absolute masterpiece! 😕 🤷

I recall that story being the standout in my high school English class—right up there with everything by Edgar Allan Poe 😁

Back then, we were encouraged to share our actual takes on books. Our teacher wanted our perspectives, though you still had to back them up with the facts.

But look—if people are suddenly demanding certain books be banned, then I’d just as easily demand they scrap half the math curriculum, if not more...
why is it that nobody ever critiques math with the same fervor they use for literature 🤷?

My memory is working against me here. Back during the transformation, I was devouring Herbert's Dean. Honestly, it was torture. On one hand, you have books you're dying to absorb, and on the other, you're just struggling to tell if you're reading the book or if the book is reading you. 🙂It didn't leave me with the best impression, but I might give it another shot. It just had way too much competition back then. 😁

Linda Price5 said:I sincerely hope that some unfortunate high schooler gets a firsthand taste of the joys of American bureaucracy before they are forced to crack open the legal code. 😁

I'm not entirely certain, but I suspect that reading the White Clown would have been required summer reading for me.

Aside from concluding that required reading lists are absolute garbage, I’ve also come to the realization that American authors aren't worth the paper they're printed on. That isn't to say I didn't enjoy the white clown—he was actually quite good—but he was clearly nothing more than a fluke.

Just make Tribunesque's "history of pornography" the mandatory reading.
At least everyone will borrow it for the title, and maybe someone might actually stick around to finish it.😁

Linda Price5 said:I have a distinct impression that you completely missed the point of my previous post. However, to clear the air, why don't you try paraphrasing what you think I actually said? Tell me exactly how you interpreted my argument and why you believe your response addresses it. Perhaps that will help us find some common ground. 😁

A decent school system is one where success doesn't depend on whether your parents are intellectuals hosting literary salons, or if you're just scraping by through a minimal curriculum.

Do I get a candy bar now? 🙂

It's obvious there's a lot of love here for Metamorphosis, The Trial and the Castle, and similar heavy hitters. But let's be real: how many people actually read and contemplate these books during a required reading assignment? One per class? That's being too optimistic. These aren't books that foster a love for reading, nor do they stick with you—mostly because people haven't actually read them 🙂 . It's forcing literature down people's throats, and for some reason, the perpetrators are convinced the victims should somehow enjoy it. Think about it.

We should probably ask if it makes sense to make so many people hate reading just so we can claim our educational curriculum is brilliant. 🤷

LOL
How did I manage to pull this off? Posting my comment before the actual post even shows up. 😕

brightpuma said:I was just talking about picking out items and stuff like that.

My bad, misread that.

Linda Price5 said:To become literate.

Anyone can read, and books are readily available to kids—the issue lies primarily within the family dynamic, doesn't it?

If we assume the issue is strictly rooted in the home environment, then we might as well scrap the entire public school system. After all, they’d be largely redundant if intellectuals simply educate their own children, while carpenters do the same—just in a different direction—and call it a day. 😁

I maintain that a robust educational system should account for a student's social habitus and provide a genuine opportunity for high-quality learning. For instance, in Finland, the correlation between parental reading habits and a fifteen-year-old's literacy levels is remarkably slim; in other places, it is overwhelmingly significant. A teenager who lacks the capacity to grasp even a relatively straightforward piece of prose—a situation affecting roughly one-fifth of American fifteen-year-olds—will find virtually no value in any assigned reading material.

Our classrooms are filled with students who simply cannot read. Someone struggling through the works of družba prati kvržica at a pace of barely a hundred words per minute isn't suffering from a lack of access to books; they're suffering from a lack of fundamental skill.

You can get literate reading Clark, Asimov, or Herbert too... 🙂

Susan James said:Actually, I've been wanting to mention this for a few days now.

I don't see any issue with books being "uninteresting." The real problem lies with bad teachers and the mindset that required reading is just a chore or a waste of time (and honestly, parents play a part in that too by encouraging that attitude instead of helping, regardless of their own "school trauma" regarding assigned books).

I think it's vital to read as much as possible, to talk about what we read, and to ensure we don't all share the exact same opinion or taste.
Or, at the very least, to stay informed about different works.

Unlike a religion class where everyone is expected to read the same thing, think the same thing, and preach the same view, an American English class should be a place where students feel free to express whether they liked or disliked what they read.

In my experience with literature (both in middle school and high school), it really was a space where I could voice my own thoughts on a book.
Whether I was in the majority or the minority, I could defend my take.

While reading might help kids fall in love with literature, it shouldn't be forced solely through assigned reading.
Definitely not just through the syllabus.

That kind of love starts early—from having books available at home, to seeing Mom, Dad, Grandma, or Grandpa picking up a book. It's about how children see adults treating books, visiting the local library, buying books for themselves or others, and talking about them with people.

No matter who puts together the reading list, they'll never satisfy everyone's taste.
But it's up to the teachers to let every student express what they truly think.

Why suffer through a book that doesn't grab you?
Give it a shot—maybe fifty pages, maybe a hundred, whatever your patience allows—but if it doesn't pull you in, isn't it just more honest to admit it's a dud? 🤷

Kate Cox2 said:Oh, I wouldn't say "loathed"... perhaps among that old guard, sure, but I personally haven't heard of anyone actually causing an uproar over HP.

The Voice of the Council actually ran a totally fine, positive piece on Harry Potter.
But there's always some idiot out there. No doubt about it. 🤷
I know those types personally—I shut them down immediately. 🙂

Peter Doyle2 said:This is actually brilliant!!
Maybe I'll just write a fantasy novel, bait some religious leader into attacking me in the news, and boom—huge sales and millions in my pocket. Who knows, maybe I'll end up on the bestseller lists like Meyer 🙂

Yeah, sometimes I really think that’s how it worked back then. 🤣
Then you get this massive wave of books following the exact same pattern, always with "explosive—new Dan Brown" plastered on the cover. They figured out the money maker. 🙂

brighteagle86 said:mmm-mmm-mmm 🙂😉

I have a mental backlog of books I skipped as a kid, which I now plan to tackle alongside my son. 😁
Naturally, Harry Potter is on that list.

Hopefully, he’ll be just as enthusiastic about this little project as I am.😬

One step at a time.
First, you have to figure out what actually grabs him and reel him in.
The problem is those idiots watching shows about picking cards and throwing magic powers have completely rotted everyone's brains.

Peter Doyle2 said:Even Harry Potter couldn't save me😢
Right after high school, during my freshman year of college—just as the whole Harry Potter craze was actually kicking off—a friend gave me the first book. I read it, I guess, but barely. It just wasn't interesting to me at all; I felt zero urge to keep going. 😢That required reading list absolutely killed me—well, it killed any interest I had in reading, anyway.

I’m not saying everything should be based on some easy, trendy bestseller. But the sheer volume of books assigned for high school reading lists is just too much—they're often incomprehensible or just plain boring. Consequently, 99% of kids just grind through them to get the grade. It seems pretty pointless to me.
Maybe it would help if professors—like someone else mentioned earlier—provided more guidance or context before students even dive in. Instead of forcing them to tackle an entire book, they could focus on the most compelling, essential chapters.
General literacy levels would stay intact😉 and kids wouldn't feel so frustrated. If a student actually enjoys one specific excerpt, they might actually decide to finish the whole thing. As it stands now, they give up right at the start and just rely on SparkNotes or online summaries.

edit: And why on earth is HP so hated by certain church groups? 😲 I mean, it's fantasy! Wait, does that mean George R.R. Martin or Tolkien are on their blacklist too?

It’s a total stretch. Just a cocktail of Vatican City paranoia, phobias, and media sensationalism. 🙂 It’s just like Dan Brown. He probably wouldn't have made a dime if some idiot at the Vatican hadn't decided to start a public feud. It's the same story with massive institutions—someone always finds a specific angle to complain about, and then they turn that drama into a gold mine.

rowdypanther12 said:Are you aware that Harry Potter is actually pretty hated in certain religious circles? 😬

I don't know, personally I feel like by age 15, kids are mature enough to just grit their teeth and get through a book. If they aren't given something engaging, they might end up hating reading altogether.
That’s why I think middle school reading lists should lean more toward pop lit; the goal there should be to hook them on reading. High school can then shift toward more formal education and general culture. 🤷

Heh, I was wondering who would be the first one to bring that up. 🤣

Peter Doyle2 said:You know, I guess my transformation was actually pretty cool—it really turned out well. 🤣 If Pajcekica had been a guy, I guess Gregory would probably be in my top 10 names—maybe. 🤣
I mean, even if it is totally absurd, the book is still somehow readable and easy to follow—plus, it’s pretty short. 🤣
Well, regarding that whole process—I guess it’s just how things work. 🙂
The issue—and the whole process, I guess—is still being worked out. Maybe we'll see some clarity soon. 😲 🙂

Could any of the teachers, professors, pedagogues, or psychologists hanging out here on Reddit please explain what a 17-year-old—which is junior year of high school, if I recall correctly—is actually supposed to get out of this book? I mean, besides the realization that LSD is a total disaster. 🤷 😂
And don't even get me started on the Proust and those little pastries—honestly, it’s a whole other conversation.
All that talk about Judith, the equinoxes, all those debates and complaints—honestly, I don't even want to get into the weeds with it. It’s just not accessible for a high schooler. Not even close. The Bible, the Iliad, the Odyssey?! Give me a break. For a fifteen-year-old—which, if my memory serves, is when you tackle these in freshman year—it's just total nonsense. It’s a complete turn-off, and honestly, probably just a total reading trauma.

Let's be clear—I’m not against reading. I guess I just see it as an idea where kids could maybe pick up one book a month.
I really am not.

I'm just generally against forcing kids to read total nonsense—you know, those incomprehensible, useless books that only serve to leave them traumatized or, at the very least, staring at the page with a massive "WTF?" expression.

The sad thing is—even though I was kind of a slacker and a bit of a troublemaker back then—we didn't actually sit down to write out our literature assignments. We just worked through them during study hall periods. It usually involved shuffling from desk to desk while the teacher threw out random questions... like what color the wallpaper was, I guess. 🙄So, I basically read about 99% of all that stuff assigned for high school reading—and honestly? I can't remember much of it today. All I really recall is that Gregory was some kind of bug, Raskolnikov killed his grandmother, and in Anna Karenina, everyone's just a miserable family member in their own unique way. Or something like that, I guess.
I guess I can't even begin to describe how much baggage I brought with me from high school.
That’s why, for instance— Sadako wants to live—I guess. I remember my elementary school reading list almost perfectly—honestly, I still remember more than half of those books even now. I won't bore you by listing every single title and author, though.

😂 👍
I'm a massive book lover; I can't imagine life without them. But I honestly think my passion only survived because I read the required school readings just enough to pass the test. Not a single word more. 🤣

It really bothers me how they basically skip over entire Sci-Fi and fantasy genres that have incredible classics. The absolute peak of the school curriculum is Orwell and his dystopia, which is just wrong. I actually got my kid into reading at the last minute through fantasy and Harry Potter. If I hadn't stepped in, those school books would have made him hate reading forever. It was actually cool watching him shift from "I'm reading because I have to" to "I can't wait to see what happens on the next page."