102 posts shown.
shadowcrane91 said:My bad... I must have totally missed your post...
Why though???
I already laid out my reasons for why I DON'T want religious education stripped from the curriculum...
And honestly, not a single practical believer has given me a solid reason why they actually want it gone.
Matthew Young35 said:The idea that the people didn't identify as Catholic is simply false.
According to the census, 84% of the population was recorded that way.
Beyond the numbers, the entire census process was a total disaster. I personally know at least ten people who were listed as Catholic just because they weren't home when the enumerator showed up. They even listed me as Catholic. When I asked, "What the hell were you thinking?" the response was basically, "Well, you were baptized, so what else would you be?"
shadowcrane91 said:Look, I didn't enroll my kids just to hunt for easy grades...
Honestly, it never even crossed my mind (but those are exactly the kind of messed-up motivations I'm talking about)
In my case, I actually had to show up for religion class, and absolutely nobody in my class ever skipped out to go get coffee during that time. 🤷
That "free period" thing only applies to the kids who *didn't* sign up for the class...
But again, don't blame the subject matter itself....
As long as there's a massive crowd of parents demanding their kids get religious instruction during school hours, it's going to stay on the curriculum....
And as long as 95% of parents force their kids into it, it's not getting scrapped just because of that other 5% (no matter what the actual reasons are for that 95%)
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shadowcrane91 said:There you go... how does someone claim to be Catholic and then actively work against their own faith's teachings????
Seriously, how????
Everyone else is out there trying to spread the word, yet these self-proclaimed Catholics are just suffocating their own beliefs....
It's like they don't even know who they are or what they stand for!
shadowcrane91 said:That’s why I think the only people pushing to scrap religious ed in schools are minorities who expect the majority to just bend to their will.☕
Look, the way schools handle it right now is a total mess because religious studies is an elective—it's supposed to be a choice! So, logically, those classes should happen after the regular school day is already wrapped up...
I mean, why can't schools just organize it like any other elective? Honestly, I have no clue...
But I'm not saying we should kick it out entirely. I'm saying we need a better structure so you don't have kids wandering aimlessly through the hallways; make it the first period or the last one.
Lawrence Torres56 said:Look, schools aren't state-run agencies; they're public institutions, and once you actually wrap your head around that distinction, you’ll probably see how totally pointless this whole complaint really is....
Anyway, I’m going to quote
"The leaders of the county professional boards are organizing training sessions on the topic of GOO for all teachers, regardless of their subject or specialty."
Which basically means that if that religion teacher finishes that training, they are officially qualified to cover those specific topics from GO, no matter who likes it or who doesn't....
By the way, a religion teacher might actually be more skilled or deliver the material better than some biology, English, or math professor... and honestly, there is absolutely no reason to go around trashing someone's expertise or profession just because of your own personal biases...
Matthew Young35 said:Of course. As long as the Catholic majority continues to operate from a position of sheer force, these arguments remain hollow. The Church will always fall back on the same old playbook: "We are the majority, so we get our way. If you actually care about your children's future, enroll them in religion classes."
That is how it looks from an atheist's perspective.
crimsonjackal12 said:Why do we automatically assume that if something is cheaper, it’s inevitably disgusting, loaded with sugar, dyes, and margarine? We paid $333 for our incredible Nutella cake for 150 guests, and it was flawless—light, no artificial junk, none of that crap. It was cheaper simply because the bakery wasn't located in downtown Manhattan, but rather out in 62 miles near the suburbs. That doesn't change the quality or the value one bit.
analogtrucker17 said:Honestly, when I first saw Megan Harris3's post, I was about to jump in and ask how much on earth a cake would actually run us, but I honestly couldn't be bothered because there were already so many people talking about it. But then I saw that when asked what a REALISTIC price per slice would be, Michael Mendoza14 goes $10 per piece, hahaha! I mean, no offense, but even a high-end pastry at a fancy bakery in downtown Chicago isn't going to cost that much. Okay, look, Michael Mendoza14 was talking about a vegan cake, so sure, maybe that’s pricier, but Megan Harris3 was asking about a standard cake. Ugh, I’ve already ranted before about how much these insane prices drive me crazy, but since I'm basically at the finish line with all this wedding planning, I’m taking the liberty of saying—and insisting—that I am right: the only people paying those kinds of amounts are either the super wealthy who just want the most expensive thing possible regardless of cost, or people who aren't thinking straight. Like one girl on another thread said, there is life after the wedding!
Anyway, from what I've seen at bridal expos, they quote you per slice, usually ranging from $10 up to $6.75. When you actually call up various bakeries or local businesses, it’s not always a simple "per slice" thing because so many factors come into play—like if you're ordering other treats from them, the quality of ingredients, or the design. We’re going to pay $533 for a cake serving about 200 people; we'll have one almond and orange cake on the main tier and a chocolate one off to the side. I actually picked our bakers after I had them make an extra pound of their pastries for me to try during a different order, and they were absolute perfection—honestly, better than all those samples you get at the expos. Once the wedding is over, I'll post a full review, and if anyone wants to know which bakery it is, just PM me.
brisknomad13 said:As a believer, I think this is great news. Honestly, tons of parents are still signing their kids up for religion classes.
And it’s not just that—we’re seeing more Catholic elementary schools, prestigious Salesian high schools, even preschools popping up everywhere. Plus, the Catholic University of America is already right here.
With the new curriculum reforms, religious education isn't being touched; they aren't forcing those hours into some big shared bucket.
So yeah, religion is thriving. It would only actually die out in schools if parents stopped enrolling their kids.
People who find any kind of religious instruction vulgar are just going to have to deal with it, since they're in the minority.
If they ever become the majority, hey, I’ll respect whatever laws society decides to pass.
rowdypanther12 said:You didn't even seem offended by those parents wanting to strip religious studies and blessings from public schools.😁
Nancy Kelly31 said:How on earth am I supposed to know the answer to that? 🤷 I suppose it depends entirely on how much access they have to an imam, a rabbi, or an Orthodox priest... where I live, there isn't a single one in sight... I honestly don't see how a teacher would even go about finding them...
In major cities, I imagine things work quite differently. I know a friend who teaches religion, and for the last six or seven years, she has organized visits for every single generation to that Orthodox church over in downtown Manhattan and to the local Jewish community center. I know this because I happened to be waiting for a friend near the plaza once and saw them there, which led to a lovely little chat about where they were headed... 😁
I also know that in the suburbs, some teachers head over to the local mosque simply because it's nearby, and since they teach Islamic studies in school, they find ways to exchange perspectives...
And then there is that one teacher from the South who writes all about his interfaith visits on his personal blog...
I even recall hearing about a group of kids from my parish traveling out toward the outskirts of the state, eventually visiting a Greek Catholic community tucked away in the Appalachians...
So, what kind of response is actually being sought here?... 🤷
Alexander Ortiz3 said:Regardless of all the noise being made about this, I’m just trying to point out the core issue here: kids who don't opt into religious studies end up with a free period on their schedule.
They also have one fewer subject to worry about—and honestly, it’s a pretty easy one to manage.
The most logical fix would be to introduce an ethics course for them, similar to how it's handled in American high schools. That way, everyone's schedule stays balanced, and instead of adding more stress, you're giving them a lighter subject that actually helps boost their GPA.
If implementing an ethics class in elementary schools proves too complicated, a second alternative would be to organize supervised library time for any student with a free period. They could use that hour to read, catch up on homework, or study for their next class under the guidance of a librarian. With a little bit of cooperation, this should be easily solvable at any school... especially since the government was just bragging about how every single school in the country now has a fully equipped library and computer labs, right?
It’s perfectly understandable that parents are worried about what their children are doing during those unsupervised hours, but the fact that most kids choose religious studies voluntarily—while a small minority also chooses it voluntarily—means that specific subject isn't the cause of this logistical mess.
The Department of Education really should have resolved this free period issue by now in a way that doesn't create extra hurdles for the majority of students attending religious classes.
Alexander Ortiz3 said:Reverse scheduling wouldn't work for those attending religion classes. Why would they want to make an extra trip from home to the school when the alternative is for the kids who *don't* attend religion class to spend their free hour inside the building?
So, it's a completely selfish opinion that only looks out for their own interests without caring if it makes life harder for everyone else.
Frank Hughes40 said:Honestly, I don't get why everyone is making such a massive deal over a single period.
If religion class is just another slot in the schedule, kids can always study something else—especially if they have a big test coming up in a different subject. It’s not like every single grade level has that class during first or last period anyway, right?
Moving it to the afternoon shift? That sounds completely nonsensical to me.
And let’s be real: most issues or incidents at school have absolutely nothing to do with religious studies; they're about student behavior. Period.
-The "troublemakers"- In my school, the truly problematic ones were actually the math teachers and those instructors who gave more than half the class a failing grade. Yet, nobody ever started a petition to get them fired, even though they were genuinely unhinged and constantly dodging their responsibilities.
Anyway, all this drama over religion class... meanwhile, I'm standing in the hallway trying to read, study, or finish homework that I won't even have to touch once I get home.
Henry Lopez10 said:You know what the most interesting thing is?
The kids themselves don't care one bit about having religious education classes at school. Not the ones attending them, and certainly not the ones whose parents opt them out. Not at all.
The only people who seem to have a problem with religious studies in schools are the parents of the children who don't attend these optional classes. They act like it's some massive tragedy or a deep trauma if their child spends an hour sitting in the library reading something or just hanging out on a computer.
Aargh, as if that will tragically derail their development in this world full of pink sunshine and rainbows.🙂
I haven’t heard any kid coming forward to loudly claim they are being discriminated against, bullied, or neglected just because they aren't going to religion class. It’s really just that it bothers their parents... the kids aren't whining about being forced into it.
It's the neoliberal parents who are whining.
As a "trauma," it’s apparently a disaster if a child gets to head home early (presumably because tennis practice isn't until 6 PM) or if they pick up a book.
Oh, and heaven forbid they socialize a little with classmates at school or chat outside during recess... yikes.
Horror!
Not a single child has claimed they would much rather spend those hours grinding through physics or extra math drills.
No, it's just the parents—specifically the parents whose kids don't go to religion class—who think it's a waste of time.😵
They want to decide for everyone, attempting to dictate where children should be enrolled based on the free will of other parents who choose to have their kids attend religious studies. Give me a break!
It's the absurdity of neoliberal bullsh— Pardon me. Trying to dictate someone else's free choice just because you personally don't like it.😁
You don't want your kid in religion class? Fine... then don't send them. It's not mandatory.
Foreign language requirements aren't mandatory either, yet nobody goes on a crusade about discriminating against kids who don't want to take them. Nobody asks via Contra or B.A.B.A. where the rest of the kids are being discriminated against while George is busy learning German. They don't worry if or how much their little Steffek is suffering because he isn't conjugating verbs, but is instead resting his brain from studying 90% useless information.
Fair enough?
Meanwhile, those same people who nitpick over religious education try to force their kids to spend that hour studying partisan history, queer culture, algorithms, or some endless list of activities they cram them into without even asking:"Would you really, truly want to play the cello or study Japanese on Tuesdays and Thursdays, or are you doing this just to please Mommy and Daddy? Honey, what would you actually do in your free time? Play outside, stay in with Barbies, play video games, or just bounce a tennis ball around?"
Ask your kids honestly. Tell them they can stay home if they don't want to go anymore and that there won't be any trouble. Show them some respect, be democratic, and then you'll see what the kids actually say. Cello, German lessons, or playing?
😉
Let's run a poll on how many kids are pushed into various extracurriculars just so parents can prove to themselves that their kids are super smart and they are super elite parents.
Let's run a poll on what those kids actually think about the parents forcing them into rigid schedules of tennis, cello, language lessons, swimming, ballet, karate, and so on.
Sound good?☕
Let the kids decide for themselves whether they’d rather play the cello or attend religion class. I mean, since we are *so* liberal and care *so* deeply about children's rights and our own kids.
See you tomorrow for coffee.
rowdypanther12 said:Yeah, obviously.
And I guess you wouldn't mind one bit if kids had to listen to a sermon during their school plays 😁
Sure, sure 😁
Karen Richardson3 said:One more thing: I honestly find it pretty bizarre that American Catholics who actually live out their faith every single day—passing those values down to their kids through daily prayer and regular church attendance—would even feel the need for a 45-minute religion class at school twice a week.
And it’s weird (at least from my perspective as an atheist) that someone has to rack up a certain number of "participation points" for attending Mass just to qualify for First Communion or Confirmation. It almost makes it feel like going to Mass is some kind of chore or a penalty you have to serve, rather than a genuine celebration of faith.
In the context of a Catholic faith that's supposed to teach self-denial and humility, this whole topic feels totally out of place:
Why do we constantly feel this pressure to be politically correct?
Out of everyone who signs their kids up for religious education, maybe 20%* actually sit down with their children at home to pray before meals or read the Bible.
The rest of them seem to send their kids just so they can prove they aren't Mexicans or old-school communists.
From what I recall of the Bible, there isn't a single word in there about the historical struggles between Americans and Mexicans, no matter how much some American priests might try to spin it that way. 😁
* And honestly, I don't even think that percentage is that high, but you get my point.
Lawrence Torres56 said:Thanks for sharing your thoughts!😉
So, what, I should just go ahead and become illiterate too? Is that the plan?🎉
Who on earth is bringing up politics and democracy here? Seriously... let’s just cut the crap and drop the insinuations and the political demagoguery, alright? Look, you don't have to agree with my take—that's your right—but why the hell the sudden accusations?😲😁
Look, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: we aren't actually going to be a true secular nation until we finally draw a hard line between the state and the church. Honestly, as long as we keep talking about separation while simultaneously leaning on phrases like "God willing" or keeping religious education in our public schools, all this talk about being a secular country is nothing more than empty noise. It's just pure theater, you know? Can we really claim to be separate when our very language and school systems are still wrapped up in religious tradition? To me, it's all just talk until we actually walk the walk.😉 And honestly, I just don't see any point in us clinging to something that isn't even true, you know? Why would we bother pretending when the facts are staring us right in the face?
Honestly, I don't even have an issue with most people, whether they belong to the majority or the minority groups out there.
I’m honestly just asking from a purely human perspective here—is this actually okay? Like, does it make any sense for twenty-two students and their twenty-two parents to all have to bend over backwards and adjust their entire lives around one or two people? We're talking about everyone having to coordinate afternoon trips to religious education classes twice a week, just because. Is it really reasonable to expect that many families to shift their schedules, or shouldn't those one or two people—and their parents—just stand their ground on their beliefs? Why can't they just let things be and not cause a whole scene while the kids are hanging out in the library during those classes? Seriously, which way is actually more practical or even remotely doable for everyone involved?
I mean, honestly, would the same people demanding all this from everyone else actually have the guts to say the exact same thing if the tables were turned tomorrow? Would they really stand by those same principles if they were the ones sitting in the hot seat instead of pointing fingers? It makes you wonder, doesn't it?
Look, I’m saying this with total sincerity here—and please, don't take this the wrong way because I'm really not trying to offend anyone—but I honestly get the feeling that if we just let kids be kids and actually let them make their own choices for once, this whole mess wouldn't even be an issue in the first place. Isn't it funny how we adults act like we're all about preaching tolerance from our high horses, while we're simultaneously the ones fueling all this intolerance and hatred? We're basically creating the very problems we claim to be fighting, aren't we?
So, is my kid actually going to go through with getting baptized, start talking about God, or whatever? Honestly, it’s not even on my radar, and it's definitely not something that's causing me any sleepless nights. I mean, let him do his thing, right? As long as he isn't out there hurting people or causing chaos, why should I care? It honestly cracks me up when people make such a massive production out of this stuff—like, why all the heavy drama and the intense scrutiny over something so personal?
It is honestly hilarious—like, laugh-out-loud ridiculous—that someone actually thinks they can strip away rights from an entire class of kids just because it doesn't suit their own kid or their personal agenda😉, right? I mean, where does this even end? Tomorrow, someone’s going to decide math is too difficult, so why not just scrap math altogether? Then it’ll be English lit next, and before you know it, we’re looking at the total abolition of the school system itself☕ because there will always be someone out there who’s unhappy with how things work.
My little one isn't going to participate in PE tomorrow because she’s got this cough and feels like she might be running a fever... so she’ll just be sitting on the sidelines watching everyone else play... and what am I supposed to do here, really? Should I go demand that the teacher or the school cancels PE for the whole damn class just so my child doesn't feel isolated or left out?
If you look at it through a certain lens, it’s the exact same headache we deal with regarding religious education, just applied to a different subject... and would it even be decent of me to make that demand? Even if, by some twisted logic, I technically have the right to ask for it?
Lawrence Torres56 said:Thanks for sharing your thoughts!😉
So, what, I should just go ahead and become illiterate too? Is that the plan?🎉
Who on earth is bringing up politics and democracy here? Seriously... let’s just cut the crap and drop the insinuations and the political demagoguery, alright? Look, you don't have to agree with my take—that's your right—but why the hell the sudden accusations?😲😁
Look, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: we aren't actually going to be a true secular nation until we finally draw a hard line between the state and the church. Honestly, as long as we keep talking about separation while simultaneously leaning on phrases like "God willing" or keeping religious education in our public schools, all this talk about being a secular country is nothing more than empty noise. It's just pure theater, you know? Can we really claim to be separate when our very language and school systems are still wrapped up in religious tradition? To me, it's all just talk until we actually walk the walk.😉 And honestly, I just don't see any point in us clinging to something that isn't even true, you know? Why would we bother pretending when the facts are staring us right in the face?
Honestly, I don't even have an issue with most people, whether they belong to the majority or the minority groups out there.
I’m honestly just asking from a purely human perspective here—is this actually okay? Like, does it make any sense for twenty-two students and their twenty-two parents to all have to bend over backwards and adjust their entire lives around one or two people? We're talking about everyone having to coordinate afternoon trips to religious education classes twice a week, just because. Is it really reasonable to expect that many families to shift their schedules, or shouldn't those one or two people—and their parents—just stand their ground on their beliefs? Why can't they just let things be and not cause a whole scene while the kids are hanging out in the library during those classes? Seriously, which way is actually more practical or even remotely doable for everyone involved?
I mean, honestly, would the same people demanding all this from everyone else actually have the guts to say the exact same thing if the tables were turned tomorrow? Would they really stand by those same principles if they were the ones sitting in the hot seat instead of pointing fingers? It makes you wonder, doesn't it?
Look, I’m saying this with total sincerity here—and please, don't take this the wrong way because I'm really not trying to offend anyone—but I honestly get the feeling that if we just let kids be kids and actually let them make their own choices for once, this whole mess wouldn't even be an issue in the first place. Isn't it funny how we adults act like we're all about preaching tolerance from our high horses, while we're simultaneously the ones fueling all this intolerance and hatred? We're basically creating the very problems we claim to be fighting, aren't we?
So, is my kid actually going to go through with getting baptized, start talking about God, or whatever? Honestly, it’s not even on my radar, and it's definitely not something that's causing me any sleepless nights. I mean, let him do his thing, right? As long as he isn't out there hurting people or causing chaos, why should I care? It honestly cracks me up when people make such a massive production out of this stuff—like, why all the heavy drama and the intense scrutiny over something so personal?
It is honestly hilarious—like, laugh-out-loud ridiculous—that someone actually thinks they can strip away rights from an entire class of kids just because it doesn't suit their own kid or their personal agenda😉, right? I mean, where does this even end? Tomorrow, someone’s going to decide math is too difficult, so why not just scrap math altogether? Then it’ll be English lit next, and before you know it, we’re looking at the total abolition of the school system itself☕ because there will always be someone out there who’s unhappy with how things work.
My little one isn't going to participate in PE tomorrow because she’s got this cough and feels like she might be running a fever... so she’ll just be sitting on the sidelines watching everyone else play... and what am I supposed to do here, really? Should I go demand that the teacher or the school cancels PE for the whole damn class just so my child doesn't feel isolated or left out?
If you look at it through a certain lens, it’s the exact same headache we deal with regarding religious education, just applied to a different subject... and would it even be decent of me to make that demand? Even if, by some twisted logic, I technically have the right to ask for it?
Alexander Ortiz3 said:Often, religious education instructors teach across multiple schools to build up enough hours for a full schedule, and frequently, there is only one instructor per school. How is that single teacher supposed to teach every grade during the first or last period if there are more classes than available slots—not to mention if they're traveling between different schools? In many cases, scheduling religious studies for the first or last period is simply technically impossible.
The issue lies entirely with the Department of Education; they have essentially left students who don't participate in religious studies to fend for themselves. In high schools, this is resolved by offering Ethics and Religion as a subject.
Why this hasn't been organized similarly in elementary schools is anyone's guess. It's possible the government finds it too expensive to pay ethics teachers when dealing with very small groups of students. Regardless, those interested should put pressure on the Department of Education to ensure adequate supervision for all students not attending religious studies, no matter the cost. Why Ethics and Religion aren't offered in elementary schools remains the real question.
Alexander Ortiz3 said:When I say 90%, I’m talking about the rough percentage of school-aged kids enrolled in religious education classes. It tends to be slightly higher during elementary school and dips a bit during high school, but there isn't really any massive deviation from that figure.
Now, how many of those students and their families actually practice their faith on a daily basis is an entirely different conversation. You see all sorts of examples—kids from non-religious households finding their way toward faith, and others moving in the opposite direction.
Personally, I am strongly against forcing anyone to attend religious classes; that would be terrible. At the same time, I don't believe anyone should be discouraged or blocked from attending if they want to.
Choosing to opt out of religious studies just to follow a fad is honestly ridiculous. I don't even know what to say about parents who just chase after fleeting trends... though I doubt there are many like that. Who would actually send their child to listen to something they consider "bad" just because it's trendy?
The only downside I see here is that the government hasn't organized ethics classes in elementary schools the way they have in high schools, which leads to these issues with unsupervised free periods.
Furthermore, I’ve never heard the vast majority of people who choose religious education calling for it to be made mandatory for everyone. On the flip side, you constantly hear complaints from the minority who don't want it, often leading to calls to ban religious education for everyone, including those who actually want it. As for those parents who care more about neighborhood gossip than their own child's well-being, it's probably best not to even engage with them.
Looking at parental guidance, many parents don't bother teaching their children how to read or do basic math, yet they still send them to school to learn those things.
The bottom line is this: religious education is strictly voluntary. There are no negative consequences for those who choose not to participate. Trying to get into the specific reasons why someone chooses one faith over another—or none at all—is a complicated rabbit hole.
The only real issue is the gap in the schedule during those free periods, and the responsibility lies solely with the state to organize something for them. No one else can step in to handle that, and it's certainly not up to the Church to manage public school schedules.
P.S. According to official data from the 2011 Census, over 90% of Americans identify with various religious denominations, while atheists and agnostics make up less than 10%. Various religious organizations can organize these classes in accordance with parental interests.
I have to admit, I didn't quite follow your point about the "excessive Mass." I assume you're referring to the Roman Catholic Church. The truth is, nobody can force you to send your child to any religious service. If you do choose to send them, then you have to accept the rules of the religious community you selected for your child. Otherwise, find another one. We live in a free country.
If a parent views a religious rite as senseless or unnecessary, I truly wonder why they would expose their own children to something they hold such a negative opinion about.
Larry Walker24 said:Give me an answer—where was God at Auschwitz?