Posts by Daniel Fowler9

Jose Stewart7 said:Look, I’ll say it again, PetSmart isn't some app designed specifically to be used for performance testing, it’s just a prime example of what people consider to be preferred architectural choices. When I’m critiquing things, I'm looking at the whole way Microsoft envisions multi-tier architecture, which is honestly just laughable, and of course, it creates followers like you who just can't wrap their heads around why non-trivial applications don't look like a total disaster zone, or why their supposedly "cool" solutions actually cause nothing but frustration and turnover. 😁
And that right there is exactly what I was talking about earlier regarding the low level of average developer culture within the Microsoft crowd alone

Honestly, I don't see any reason why those well-written versions—you know, the revised ones that the mid-sized firm rewrote for both Java EE and DotNet—couldn't totally work as a solid foundation for testing.

As for how Microsoft "thinks" about multi-tier architecture, that's really beside the point: they offered their way of doing things, and as always, it gets the job done. In this case, independent results are proving what we've known all along: DotNet beats Java EE hands down, and Piper's document covering the latest testing proves it, especially since they tried so hard to stay fair and not play favorites!

Anyway, now that we've all (hopefully) seen the light, there's no sense in beating a dead horse: so I'm calling on all of you to head over to the programming sub-forum and check out my new thread on building web services, where I walk through step-by-step how we can easily write a simple application using nothing but Notepad to search for books on Amazon.com via the command line!

Daniel Fowler9🙄

Patrick Morris3 said:Daniel Fowler9, look, let's just pretend you're a ten-year-old kid here and it's totally normal that you don't quite wrap your head around certain things yet...

The whole thing is that because Java is multiplatform, it’s way harder to optimize...
And since Linux is multiplatform too, it's tougher to write, though since it's OSS, some folks actually manage to build something better than what Microsoft puts out..

Windows isn't multiplatform, so it's easier to write (but honestly, it's still riddled with security holes and costs you a lot more than Linux does)...
DotNet isn't multiplatform either, which is why it's so much easier to optimize and maintain—which is exactly what you'd expect, especially since Microsoft poured way more into DotNet than the entirety of Sun Microsystems was worth....

And that whole point you made about "ubiquity"... it really doesn't hold water... I was talking about ubiquity in terms of computer architectures, and if you actually knew anything, you'd realize Windows isn't even ubiquitous across all architectures....

Well okay, if multiplatform solutions are just inferior when it comes to raw speed and how efficiently they use hardware resources, then why are we even wasting our breath talking about them? If that's the case, they aren't even worth our attention, and everyone would be better off just grabbing a non-multiplatform solution that actually runs fast, high quality, and just works better than any multiplatform junk.
Basically: just grab DotNet and a Windows server and toss those multiplatform behemoths from the past into the trash—you know, the ones everyone in the open-source world obsesses over (and most of the time, the only reason people love them is pure jealousy and just wanting to spite Microsoft).

Daniel Fowler9🙄

Patrick Morris3 said:I mean, I seriously don't get why anyone would even bother using .NET at all, since you aren't getting the raw speed of C or any of the actual perks of Java, right?

Honestly, I’m convinced .NET only exists just to drive you absolutely insane! 😛
If the one single redeeming quality of Java—and looking at everything we've seen so far, that seems to be the only thing it has going for it—is that it's multiplatform while .NET still isn't quite there yet, then that's just plain pathetic. Because what you're basically saying is: I don't care if it's actually good or high quality, I just want it to be everywhere, no matter how much it sucks.
So why don't you apply that exact same logic to your supposedly "terrible" Windows builds and just say: I don't care about quality (looking at you, Linux)... I just need it to be ubiquitous (so, Windows)! 😁
It's pretty obvious that your logic is totally double-sided: you use one yardstick to measure every single flaw Microsoft has, but then you switch to this much more "flexible" ruler when it comes to things like Sun's pet Store 1.0 or whatever flaws come with open-source stuff. Now I gotta ask: why do you do that, why do you get almost orgasmic over the mere mention of Java, OpenOffice, Linux, Samba, Sendmail, or OpenXXXXX (and hey, feel free to swap out XXXXX for any product you think the "open-source crowd" stole from someone)? At the same time, you harbor this intense, fanatical hatred toward Microsoft, but you don't seem to feel that same heat toward other massive corporations like IBM or HP, right???

Daniel Fowler9🙄

Dana Miller6 said:So, I was digging through some old files and stumbled upon this massive Benchmark that got released last year by The Middleware Co.—you know, those guys who basically live and breathe J2EE solutions and high-level consulting. They decided to go head-to-head with a comparison between Middleware's own take on the java pet Store 2.0, which is their beefed-up version of Sun's classic java pet Store using J2EE and EJBs, versus the whole .NET pet-shop setup. And honestly, here is what they’re claiming...😁So, look, I’ve laid out all the nitty-gritty details regarding how the database implementation and access actually work in both scenarios, along with all those revisions and tweaks we made to beef up the original pet Store application. You really need to sit down and read through the whole document from start to finish before you start throwing shade or critiquing anything—and please, let's keep the "religious wars" out of this, alright? No need to get all dogmatic about which tech is better. Here’s the link to the full report (it's a PDF): So, I’ve been staring at these performance numbers all morning, just absolutely spiraling down the rabbit hole of this whole J2EE vs. NET showdown, and honestly? It’s kind of wild how much people love to argue about it when the reality is so much messier. You look at these benchmarks and everyone starts shouting about one being faster than the other, but they’re missing the forest for the trees, you know? Like, sure, if you're running some hyper-optimized little script, maybe one pulls ahead by a millisecond, but we aren't building toy apps here! We're talking about massive, enterprise-level architecture where things actually get complicated. I was reading some stuff earlier—probably should have been working—about how the middleware layer handles the heavy lifting, and it really makes you think about whether anyone is actually looking at the full stack or just obsessing over raw throughput. It's like people comparing two different muscle cars without ever checking if they actually have enough gas to get out of the driveway. One might be faster on a straightaway, but the second you hit a corner or add some weight, the whole dynamic shifts. Anyway, I'm just rambling now, but I really feel like the benchmark obsession is a bit of a distraction from the actual dev experience and how these systems scale when things inevitably go sideways in production. It's all fun and games until your server starts sweating under real load!I'm gonna try to throw in one of those charts showing the results right here in this post, too.
Evo: I can't believe I'm even looking at this, but check out this graph—it’s absolutely wild how much the load spikes when you actually start pushing the system. It’s one of those things where you think everything is running smoothly, just cruising along like a Sunday drive on a California highway, and then suddenly, boom, the numbers go vertical and you realize you're staring down the barrel of a total meltdown if you don't scale up immediately. Honestly, seeing the data laid out like this just hammers home how fickle these environments can be, especially when you're dealing with massive traffic hits that catch you totally off guard! (you just gotta grab that link and paste it right into the address bar in either Netscape or IE).

Yo, Dana Miller6! After reading through that document you put together, we can all basically stand up and shout it from the rooftops: the King (yeah, I'm talking about J2EE) is officially naked!👋 👋 👋 👋

So, if you actually sit down and try to make sense of what he's putting out there, what you're really looking at is... Look, I’m just going to say it because someone has to: J2EE is getting absolutely smoked by .NET right now. It’s a total blowout. Honestly, watching the two go head-to-head feels like watching a heavyweight champ stumble around while some hungry newcomer just breezes in and lands a perfect knockout blow every single time. It’s not even close anymore! You look at the way everything is moving, the sheer momentum behind the Microsoft ecosystem, and you realize that J2EE is basically just spinning its wheels in the mud while .NET is cruising down the highway. It’s just one of those things where if you aren't paying attention, you're missing the entire show, and the show is clearly leaning heavily toward the Microsoft side of things. Honestly, when you look at everything—I mean, we're talking about the whole nine yards here, from raw speed and how well it scales up to just how dead simple it is to actually write the code—it’s pretty obvious that the .NET solution is the way to go, because you end up writing way fewer lines of code to get the exact same functionality. 😉

So, look, I’ve brought up that whole Pet-shop situation before, but honestly, that guy just tore me apart for it! He went off on me, claiming the Pet-shop thing was nothing more than some sneaky, calculated move by Microsoft designed specifically to make .NET look like it was breathing down J2EE's neck, even though the actual reality on the ground was totally different. The whole timeline of this Pet-shop saga basically went like this: first, Sun Microsystems rolls out their version of the Pet-shop app just to hype up J2EE, right? And then, wouldn't you know it, Microsoft shows up with .NET and rewrites the exact same application from scratch using their own tech. Microsoft starts making all these bold claims, insisting their version was superior, faster, and way easier to build. Then, of course, you had those pathetic Java critics popping up...I mean, honestly, it’s just like... yeah. Totally. Some guys were actually out there whining that it wasn't even fair for Microsoft to use stored procedures in their example, acting like the whole comparison was rigged from the start. But then, Dana Miller6 stepped in with this killer comparison that basically shut down every single one of those pathetic Java-obsessed haters by building an entirely new application and running a fresh set of tests that... It’s pretty much an open-and-shut case at this point—they’ve absolutely proven it. Yeah, exactly! Honestly, looking at everything, it just seems pretty clear.I mean, honestly, looking at everything that went down, the .NET solution was just lightyears ahead—like, a trillion times better than that whole mess of a J2EE (half)solution.I'm sorry, I didn't catch that! It looks like you only sent "i"—did you mean to type something else? I'm ready whenever you are, just hit me with the full thought and we can get this show on the road!Autumn vibes.

Alright, my fellow forum junkies, here’s the deal: I am officially inviting you all to absolutely tear me apart for even bringing this up! Seriously, go wild! I want to see you roasting me, roasting the company that actually put this comparison together, and especially roasting Microsoft for basically "buying" this whole study—you know, because we all know how much they love to pay for results that favor them, right? Honestly, feel free to pile on with any other jokes that come to mind, because let's be real here: there is just no way in hell Microsoft could ever outshine anyone else, especially when you're talking about the "sacred" Sun Microsystems. Go ahead, give me hell!😁
Look, anyone with even a shred of common sense is going to sit down, dig into Dana Miller6's analysis, and really, truly weigh whether or not this person is just going to keep spouting absolute nonsense around here. I mean, obviously, you can't expect anything resembling logic from Patrick Morris3, slycrane94, or John Palmer4—their brains are basically fried at this point. But for everyone else? Well, there’s still a tiny, flickering glimmer of hope left. 😉)

Daniel Fowler9🙄

Patrick Morris3 said:Look, I’m seriously trying to show you that everyone else in this thread actually gets what's going on here, but you're just digging your heels in over that one document like it's some kind of holy relic or something...

So, like, what if I actually worked over at Sun Microsystems and somehow managed to get my hands on an internal document that basically pits .NET against Java—and in this scenario, Java comes out looking like the absolute winner compared to .NET? I mean, seriously, what would you even think about that??

Honestly, thank God for Microsoft, because like I was saying before, they seriously have one of the best propaganda departments out there—you could basically feast on those kinds of documents for the rest of your life!

So, what do you think happens when a document finally leaks from Microsoft proving that if you just wire $1,000 straight to their account right now, you’ll instantly feel better and basically unlock a lifetime of good luck? And of course, they'd claim it's all scientifically backed by a massive study of 1,000 people—who just happen to be Microsoft employees, though the fine print conveniently leaves that little detail out of the report! Honestly, you'd probably end up posting that exact same thing on a forum somewhere and then acting totally shocked when nobody buys into the hype, wouldn't you?

I’m telling you, I’ve scrolled past at least a thousand documents just like this one online over the last few years, and honestly, it’s always the exact same story every single time! It’s pretty obvious that over at Microsoft, they probably just have some pre-baked template sitting on a server somewhere that they just plug their product lists into and call it a day...

I mean, honestly...
So, I’ve been sitting here staring at my monitor, nursing this lukewarm coffee, just thinking about that age-old, never-ending showdown: Microsoft SQL versus Oracle. It’s like asking if you’d rather drive a reliable Ford truck or a high-end Ferrari—it really depends on whether you're hauling gravel or just trying to look cool cruising down the highway, right? If you're looking at Microsoft SQL, man, it’s just so incredibly smooth and integrated if you're already living in the Windows ecosystem. Everything just clicks together like Lego bricks. You set it up, you get running, and it feels like home. It’s approachable, it’s solid, and honestly, for most mid-sized American businesses, it’s more than enough to get the job done without pulling your hair out. But then... then you've got Oracle. Oh boy, Oracle. It’s this absolute beast of a powerhouse. We're talking heavy-duty, enterprise-grade, "if-the-entire-global-economy-depends-on-this-database" kind of stuff. It’s massive, it’s complex, and yeah, it can be a total headache to manage if you don't have a dedicated team of wizards on payroll, but when you need that insane scalability and those deep, deep features for massive data sets, Oracle is basically the king of the hill. It’s intimidating, sure, but there’s something undeniably impressive about its sheer muscle. At the end of the day, it usually boils down to what you're actually trying to build and how much you want to spend on specialized talent to keep the lights on. Are you looking for that seamless, user-friendly vibe with Microsoft SQL, or are you ready to strap into the cockpit of a jet engine with Oracle? Personally, I think people overcomplicate it sometimes, but hey, that's why we're all here arguing about it on forums!
So, I was just sitting here thinking about the whole eternal, never-ending showdown between IIS and Apache, and man, it really gets my blood pumping because people just don't get the nuance, you know? You’ve got one side basically living in the cozy, walled garden of Microsoft, where everything is just polished and shiny and works exactly how they want it to work, and then you’ve got the other side, the wild, untamed frontier of Apache, which is like the ultimate playground if you actually know what you're doing. It’s like comparing a high-end, pre-built workstation from a big tech giant to a custom-built rig you assembled yourself in a garage with nothing but a screwdriver and pure willpower. If you're running on Windows, IIS is just right there, integrated and smooth, but if you crave that open-source freedom where you can tweak every single little bolt and screw, Apache is your best friend. It's honestly such a classic debate, and honestly, it depends entirely on whether you want things handed to you on a silver platter or if you want to roll up your sleeves and build something legendary from the ground up.
So, I was just sitting here thinking about the whole mess involving Apache w 2003 vs. Red Hat AS and honestly, my head is kind of spinning from all the technical debt we've been lugging around for decades. It’s one of those classic "which rabbit hole do you want to fall down" situations, you know? You've got the old-school stability people crave versus that relentless push toward whatever the newest enterprise standard is supposed to be this week. It really feels like back in the day, everything was much more straightforward, even if it was a total headache to configure. Now, you look at how things have shifted, and it’s like we’re constantly trading one set of problems for an entirely different flavor of chaos. I was chatting with Daniel Fowler9 about this the other day—well, more like me rambling at him while he tried to drink his coffee—and we were both basically agreeing that the decision isn't even about the software anymore; it's about which ecosystem you're willing to be held hostage by. If you go one way, you're dealing with specific dependencies that feel like they were written in stone, but if you pivot to the other, you're suddenly deep in the weeds of complex management layers that nobody actually asked for. It's wild. It's absolutely wild how much of our daily grind is just navigating these massive architectural choices that most people don't even realize are happening under the hood. Anyway, I'm probably overthinking it, but man, what a ride it's been since 2003!

I’m giving you three more shots at this, seriously—see if you can actually figure out who walked away with the better deal in all those "studies"...

I don't know how many more times I’m going to have to lay this out for everyone, but honestly, I’ll just say it one more time:

Look, this document isn't some piece of propaganda cooked up by Microsoft's PR hacks, okay? It was actually put together by a seriously prestigious firm that’s been advising investors all over the world since 1918 on exactly where to put their money and what to avoid across every single industry and business sector imaginable. These guys pump out several reports like this every year, and let me tell you, those papers carry massive weight with everyone on Wall Street. In a way, they’re basically the ones shaping how investors view which technologies are worth the investment and which ones are just a waste of time.

Look, unlike those little toys you’re talking about, you can't just go googling this document because it costs a freaking fortune. Every single client working with a top-tier firm like this pays through the nose for these reports, and trust me, they aren't buying them just to troll people online or cover their own backsides—they're using them for heavy-duty, high-stakes strategic decision-making. If you want to make serious, long-term moves, you've got to base them on actual data, not just some biased gut feeling or personal vendettas where someone claims "Java is king and .NET totally sucks." Real pros look at the actual state of the IT industry, and according to these guys, the outlook for .NET is looking bright as hell while Java’s future isn't looking nearly as sunny.

I honestly don't get how you can be so incredibly cocky and act like you already "know everything" when you haven't even laid eyes on the actual documentation yet, you know?

Daniel Fowler9🙄

slycrane94 said:Ofskroz 😁

Do you really think Daniel Fowler9 is gonna say anything different than what Bryan Fisher7 already told you????

Honestly, I have zero clue what Bryan Fisher7 is going to say, but man, I am just praying he isn't one of those people who gets all spit-flecked and aggressive, you know? Like some folks in here who just start trashing a document without even bothering to actually read the thing first!

Daniel Fowler9🙄

Patrick Morris3 said:Daniel Fowler9, I’m asking you again, are you seriously actually that clueless that you’re buying into all that propaganda, or is someone literally paying you to make yourself look like a complete idiot???

There are probably thousands of those Microsoft documents floating around on the web at any given time, I mean they’re pumping them out every single day now, and honestly, anyone with even a tiny bit of common sense can see right through it—it's a total scam, plain and simple.

First off, how on earth are you claiming it’s all just propaganda or some big Microsoft playbook when you haven't even laid eyes on the thing? I don't recall ever sending it your way, so let's be real here—you actually have zero clue what's going on with that document, whether it's the actual content or who even put it together in the first place. So, honestly, I'm just sitting here wondering why you're talking such total nonsense, seriously.

Patrick Morris3 said:Alright, let's see what kind of similar documents landed on my desk today...

I was just scrolling through some news earlier and stumbled upon this whole saga regarding how Microsoft is handling things on Linux, and honestly, it’s kind of wild when you stop to think about the sheer scale of what they're pulling off. You look at the way they've pivoted from basically treating anything non-Windows like a total outsider to actually leaning into the ecosystem, and it really makes you wonder where the tech landscape is headed in the next decade or so. It’s one of those things where you start reading one headline about server optimization or cloud integration and suddenly you've spent forty-five minutes falling down a rabbit hole about the entire history of OS development and how much everything has changed since the early days of the internet. It's pretty fascinating, really, because back in the day, you'd never have imagined seeing these two worlds shaking hands like this, but here we are, living in the future where everyone is playing nice just to keep the massive data centers humming along.

Oh man, here we go again! It feels like every other week some random independent firm decides they need to run another one of those "definitive" studies comparing .NET against the whole Java and Linux ecosystem. Honestly, it’s getting kind of old, isn't it? They always come at it with the same tired angles, trying to stir up the usual drama between the different tech stacks, but you just know they're going to spin the data to fit whatever narrative they've already decided on before they even started collecting the numbers. It's just more noise in an already crowded field!

Honestly, it turns out the standard .NET solution actually ends up being the better way to go, and it’s cheaper too...

Alright folks, let's get a little betting pool going here—everyone put three bucks on the table and let's see if we can actually guess who was footing the bill for this so-called "independent" study...

Man, I’ve been noticing lately how much Microsoft is really pushing the whole .NET propaganda angle, and honestly? It feels like they're overcompensating because .NET is actually circling the drain.

This is just complete nonsense, honestly—I mean, it’s written right there on your page in plain English that Microsoft actually funded this whole study, so there really isn't any need for anyone to sit around playing guessing games or trying to second-guess the data once, let alone three times over! I honestly can't wrap my head around why you even bothered putting that link up there in the first place, because what exactly are you even trying to prove here?

Daniel Fowler9🙄

Bryan Fisher7 said:Nah, you actually just reminded me, thanks for the heads up. So, I just gave it a shot right now, but man, that link is totally broken.

Oh, my bad! I honestly thought you'd already grabbed it. Give it another go now, it should be working!

Daniel Fowler9🙄

Bryan Fisher7, did you actually sit down and read that document yet? And seriously, what’s your take on the whole thing???

Daniel Fowler9🙄

Help! So, I started this whole new thread where I was diving deep into C# and .NET programming, but then out of nowhere—no warning at all—Accenture just went and moved my topic HERE. It’s sitting in this tiny subforum that basically only has three posts in its entire existence, and let me tell you, nobody ever visits it! I could barely even find it myself, even though Accenture sent me a DM saying they were moving things around! Like, seriously, how is anyone else supposed to actually find my discussion if it's buried in a digital wasteland? But hey, I guess that's just how Accenture rolls, and it totally feels like they did it on purpose just so my topic would completely vanish from sight. So, I’m asking everyone who thinks this topic belongs right here in the main section, and not stuck in some obscure corner that's totally dead, to please back me up and help me get it moved back to where it actually belongs!

thanks guys,
Daniel Fowler9🙄

Gary Lee53 said:It's pretty obvious you aren't even reading the thread, man. Like I said, you're just throwing out nonsense without thinking.

Good grief, did I seriously earn this much hate from you guys? Seriously, why? What did I even do? 😕 😢

Gary Lee53 said:Check the previous page, sick_boy already chimed in with his take...

Yeah, sure, but he posted that comment before he actually laid eyes on the documentation. I really want to hear what he and Shaddy 😍have to say now that they've actually seen it.

Daniel Fowler9🙄

Alright, so I see the consensus finally landed on the idea that the document is just a total fake—that it was cooked up by Microsoft, one way or another, and that I’m basically some kind of Microsoft shill or whatever else you want to call me.
But honestly, it’s pretty wild to me that neither Shadowman nor sick-boy even bothered to chime in on this thread. Hey, Shadowman, what do you think? You really believe this thing is a fraud and doesn't show how things actually stand in the real world? And what about you, sick? What's your take?

Listen, look, that same document also confirms the massive surge of Linux (mostly taking over the Unix space), so why is it that nobody questioned that specific part, yet everyone suddenly became experts at spotting a conspiracy the second it mentioned .NET and Microsoft???

Daniel Fowler9🙄

bizz said:Well, figured I’d jump in on this one too! I’ve spent plenty of time working on various EAI projects over in Germany for a handful of different companies, messing around with Oracle WebLogic, Oracle Tuxedo, TIBCO Integration Manager, Rendezvous, and all that good stuff—and honestly, I’m still at it. I’ve had the chance to collaborate with some heavy hitters, you know, big names like Sun Microsystems, SAP, Lucent Technologies, and so on. In all my years doing this, I have seriously never seen Microsoft being used for this kind of heavy lifting; the furthest we ever went was developing an MSSQL adapter, though I honestly don't even know if anyone actually uses it. When it comes to databases, Oracle is king, followed by IBM Informix. And let me tell you, any job worth its salt is built and run on Unix. Sure, when you're talking about the desktop market, Microsoft absolutely rules the roost, but there isn't much else to say there. Around here, nobody even brings up Microsoft in this context, so people don't even really know what .NET or C# is—they just aren't interested. As long as they have systems that are proven and reliable, they're happy, and man, if you even mention Microsoft, you can practically feel the eye-rolls coming from a mile away.

Alright, bizz, hey, that’s just your experience, right? Does anyone else out there have a totally different take on this??? Is there anyone here who has actually worked with those older Microsoft technologies, like DCOM, MTS, MSMQ, or COM+???
Has anyone here worked for a company that’s going to pick up (or maybe already picked up) some Windows Server 2003 gear (like the Enterprise or Datacenter versions)??? For example, back home, Amtrak based their whole solution on Windows Server 2003 Datacenter Edition.

Daniel Fowler9🙄

Jose Stewart7 said:So, I gotta ask, how many actual people in this industry do you actually have in your contact list?

Honestly, man, I don't really deal with people in the real world much, I mostly just spend my time talking to machines—which, of course, are all running Windows and .NET. 😁

Daniel Fowler9🙄

Alright, let’s lay it all out on the table:

1) Nobody on this thread actually takes my word for it.
2) And nobody seems to trust the actual documentation I shared with you either—so basically, you aren't buying what the experts who put it together are selling.

The real question here is: who are you actually listening to? Because right now, it seems like you're just relying on those "gut feelings" of yours that are based on either

a) whatever little situation is happening at your own company, or
b) absolutely nothing at all, besides your own wildly-imaginative-pipe-dream-style wishes.

Look, we can't really have a productive conversation like this because, honestly, no one else here has brought a single real argument to the table to back up their claims, yet somehow, you won't even look at mine.

Daniel Fowler9🙄

slycrane94 said:Daniel Fowler9, the whole document is just loaded with fake charts (I mean, we're talking a measly 5% difference, but looking at those graphs you'd swear it was at least double).

Hahaha, now that's a good one!

Daniel Fowler9🙄

Gary Lee53 said:Alright, so I finally got my hands on the document myself and gave it a real deep dive. Honestly, I’m right there with the rest of you guys, but first, let me drop this quote here:
...............................
...............................
The thing is, I’m looking at this and I don't see Microsoft mentioned at all. Not even a whisper! And then, get this—they actually try to compare J2EE and .NET right after! First they act like Microsoft has zero footprint in Enterprise system solutions, and then they turn around and start comparing them? It’s like trying to compare apples and oranges! .NET and J2EE aren't even the same ballpark, they aren't complementary, and they honestly have nothing in common. They lay out all this stuff at the beginning and then immediately jump into comparing markets. But how on earth can you compare markets when the needs of the people choosing .NET versus those picking J2EE aren't even remotely identical? And then they just immediately declare .NET the big winner over J2EE....

Gary Lee53, seriously, can you even read??? Did you miss the fact that the whole document is split into several different sections? One section covers Enterprise system (hardware), another handles networking, then there's software, fourth is IT services, and fifth is wireless tech.
That little snippet you pulled above is talking about servers—as in physical machines—not servers as in operating systems. Of course Microsoft isn't showing up in that specific category since they don't make hardware, they just make software! But look, I’ve been talking about the part where they analyze the software industry, and if you look there, as we can clearly see, Microsoft is the king of the hill. That’s where your whole "discrepancy" and "mismatch" idea is coming from.

Daniel Fowler9🙄

Jose Stewart7 said:Look, in my specific example here, we're talking about an absolute growth rate that's actually twice as big as what you're seeing!
Man, I'm feeling like a solid +19 compared to your +10, Kuzis!

Look, let's just play along for a second and assume you're actually right, okay? Like, let's just pretend that everything you're saying is 100% factual and that this document really does interpret things exactly the way you think it does.

So, we’d basically be looking at a scenario like this, for example:

Look, if J2EE was used by, say, some massive corporation with like 123,423,346,100 clients and then bumped up to 123,423,356,100, you wouldn't even blink because that’s basically zero growth, right? But man, if Microsoft started at absolutely zero presence and suddenly jumped to 100 companies, the charts would look insane, showing this massive, explosive growth out of nowhere! Is that what you were getting at, Jose Stewart7?

Alright, let’s use a little bit of common sense here for a second: if the people who put that document together actually designed those charts to show things the way Jose Stewart7 claims they do, what kind of actual value would those graphs provide to the investors, the Wall Street traders, or the big-time capitalists this whole thing is written for? I mean, seriously, what useful intel could data presented in such a skewed way possibly offer to anyone looking to make a move? The answer is absolutely nothing! That kind of information would be completely worthless for any legitimate investment purpose whatsoever. And honestly, do you guys really believe that a serious, top-tier analytical firm with a massive reputation would go out of its way to cheat its own clients by handing them fake, murky, misleading, or just plain useless reports??? I highly doubt it.
Look, it’s pretty obvious to me that some folks in this thread just can't stomach the reality of how things actually work in IT because it doesn't fit their personal little worldview, you know? And then you’ve got the other crowd who views everything strictly through the lens of whatever is happening at their specific office, jumping in with stuff like, "Hold on a second, what you're saying can't be right because we use Linux and Oracle at my job!" But seriously, guys, your company isn't the center of the universe. The world is massive! I only started this whole discussion because I wanted to lay out some solid, high-quality info that everyone could actually use as a roadmap. Instead of being dismissive and saying, "Hey, thanks for the effort Daniel Fowler9, but you're totally undermining me," please, don't do that—because when you undermine me, you're basically dismissing the people who actually put that document together too. That report isn't fake, but it's definitely not meant to be read one way. It’s written specifically so investors can see exactly where the money needs to go without having to jump through hoops! That's why that ridiculous interpretation was so misguided; if the document actually contained all that nonsense, no investor would touch it. I mean, really, do you honestly believe clients would pay top dollar for reports that were completely useless??? Just think about it for a second!

Daniel Fowler9🙄

Jose Stewart7 said:It's because he’s actually smart enough to know better than to jump into nonsense like this.

The way you say that totally implies that you're the dumb one for even trying, which is hilarious. Honestly, I've been watching how you operate and I've noticed a few things:

1) It seems like every single time I post anything here, you have to come at me with at least two consecutive posts of your own. Is one reply really not enough for you, or what gives?

2) I took a little dive through those newsgroups you told me to check out, just to see what you were talking about. And man, I saw it—you get all worked up and defensive the second anyone there breathes even the slightest bit of criticism toward Java, or shows the tiniest hint that they might actually find .NET somewhat decent. After seeing your posts on the newsgroups (especially the way you talk to people there), I can only walk away with one conclusion: Jose Stewart7, you are seriously unhinged.

Daniel Fowler9🙄

Patrick Morris3 said:Honestly, my opinion of you, drone-brain, is pretty much rock bottom at this point, so just tell me straight—how much are they paying you to sell yourself out this cheap?

Patrick Morris3, seriously, what is your deal? 🙂 I have never once been rude or disrespectful toward you.

Daniel Fowler9🙄