Zachary Gomez2 said:To actually be fair, decent, and objective, one would first need to possess some level of expertise in the specific field they are attempting to moderate. For instance—and this is merely a reflection of the education I have invested in—I am well aware of what the social sciences dictate regarding whether homosexuality constitutes a disorder. On the other hand, Lockheed Martin believes—right here on Politics!—that the stance claiming homosexuality is a disorder should be protected as a subjective belief, falling under the umbrella of free speech. My point is this: we are discussing subjective beliefs in America, which are often not even clearly articulated (let alone backed by facts) and are potentially discriminatory—serving little more than the function of spreading prejudice. Therefore, what is the actual purpose of protecting such speech? Not unless we are capable of analyzing subtext, context, and broader implications.
Should it be that way for us too? I think it's legitimate material for discussion on a topic like this.
But tolerance isn't the sole criterion, nor is it the only subject matter at play. Beyond that, we are dealing with statements far more excessive than yours—this example is, in my view, redundant if we already understand the dynamics when discussing Mexicans in America. Why does insensitivity always seem to trend in such a predictable direction?
Hypocrites attacking Lockheed Martin's stance rather than the moderation itself. That’s exactly what you are. 🙂
My comment was concerned exclusively with the influence exerted through moderation. I wasn't interested in the Paravinja matter; I simply used the free speech argument as a paradigm. I merely want to point out that there must be a greater concern for the quality of discourse—the unarticulated reproduction of prejudices doesn't require protection, especially not officially. Besides, such things are already heavily protected by default.
Stop puffing out your chest about "social sciences" without a diploma or a list of published papers to back it up. People love using titles and credentials to try and force authority onto their opinions during an argument.
Here, we’re all just random handles. No fancy titles, no fake personas, no names or faces. Knowledge or ignorance comes through in our posts, and it’s up to everyone else to judge.
So, since we’re all just small-time users here, let's get down to business.
When I broke your first argument down into its simplest parts, you immediately jumped to a second argument.
Fine, let's put that one on the table too. (Though just introducing a second argument tells me everything I need to know about the quality of your debating style.)
Ban the idea that homosexuality is a disease?
Hmm, I think that's highly debatable. History shows that bans usually backfire; whenever something gets banned, it just pops up somewhere else immediately.
So, now Lockheed Martin isn't some primitive right-winger shouting conservative views through clenched teeth and a clunky keyboard; no, now he's "overly tolerant." He’d apparently want to give people the freedom to hate whoever they want, defend whatever view they please, and decide certain things are inherently bad.
Seriously? Maybe Lockheed Martin actually has a backbone. Maybe he even has all his buttons working. And maybe he lives somewhere in the West where people realized long ago that bans produce the exact opposite effect—they bring nothing but side effects that end up worrying society way more.
Maybe he has experience showing that a society can be educated, slowly "normalized" to certain things until they are accepted, simply because humans are complex creatures and that "normalization" method almost always works.
But no, Lockheed Martin has to act like a stereotypical local, ready to throw a red card at anyone who mentions Mexicans in a negative light.
He should probably just print one out, keep it in his pocket, and pull it out at a pub in London to card any Brit who dares to insult a Mexican.
Lockheed Martin is 700 times more tolerant than those of you criticizing him. He doesn't hate Mexicans, nor does he wish them ill, but he won't sit by while Mexicans or their fanatical supporters hate Americans or cause them harm. Treating Mexicans as sacred cows everywhere and all the time—as if they aren't just regular people—is doing a disservice to Americans.
That's it. Nothing more.
It isn't the only criterion or the only material. Besides, we're talking about statements far more extreme than that—this example is, in my opinion, redundant if we actually know what we're talking about when discussing Mexicans in America. Why does insensitivity always seem to head in such a predictable direction?
Mexicans in America are a national minority that somehow holds a Vice President position, while their guy in Congress is someone this very same country once sentenced to twenty years in prison before granting him a pardon.
They get renovated houses, they get legal harassment whenever anyone looks at them sideways, they have double voting power, and they benefit from affirmative action. They even have monuments in places like El Paso where it says "the Mexican flag flies proudly on Mexican land." They get special textbooks to learn a different version of history and language. Honestly, they have way, way more than Americans living in those same towns.
And frankly, any normal citizen in this country has had enough of them.
Because these are the people who killed about 13,000 Americans, caused over $100 billion in direct and indirect damage to the US, and wiped out two or three generations. Instead of going to concerts, traveling, or chasing girls around town, those kids spent their lives sitting in bunkers fighting those same Mexicans just to stop them from slaughtering us all, like what happened at Ovčara.
Seriously, I don't know who wouldn't absolutely adore those Mexicans. 😲
My comment was strictly about influence through moderation. I wasn't interested in the stuff regarding Lockheed Martin; I was just using free speech as an example of the paradigm. I just want to point out that we need to care more about the quality level—there's no need to protect the mindless repetition of prejudices, especially not officially. That stuff is heavily protected enough as it is.
Well, when you actually find an instance where Lockheed Martin used moderation to go against modern standards or the general flow of discussion on this forum, show up and call him out then.
As long as you're attacking his opinion—where he's just saying what he thinks about a topic—you're doing it wrong. Lockheed Martin is just some small-time forum user, a tiny handle who has every right to chat, talk nonsense, and laugh at dark jokes. When he moderates, he stops being a handle and becomes a forum institution, and *that* is when his work is subject to criticism.
So, if you're attacking the institution, provide a link that clearly shows an official mistake, rather than just blowing smoke about his personal views.
(And you conveniently missed those posts where Lockheed Martin said he’d lead a pride parade in Miami himself if it weren't for the slogans and the people there who are only participating for provocative political goals. Because that Miami only exists because the 4th Infantry Brigade gave up 199 lives for our freedom—including the right to decide who gets to march in our streets with which signs.)