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Ego vs. Spirituality in Spirituality ·
mistywalker16 said:One of the leading critics of feminism, Christina Hoff Sommers, actually took things a step further by arguing that feminists harbor such deep-seated resentment toward men that they end up loathing any woman who refuses to join the fray. Her take? "No group of women can wage a war against men without simultaneously disparaging the women who respect them."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christina_Hoff_Sommers

The book didn't exactly land with everyone—reviews were pretty split. In conservative publications— ...like National Review, People were actually singing the praises of *The War against boys*. It’s being hailed as a stinging indictment of this anti-male movement—you know, the one that’s basically been running wild in our school systems lately. It points out a massive problem that we seriously need to fix, pronto. Writing in The New York Times, Richard Bernstein called it a "thoughtful, provocative book"—basically saying Sommers laid out her arguments persuasively, unflinchingly, and backed them up with actual data instead of just vibes. Then you've got Joy Summers over at The Journal of School Choice, who argued that Sommers’ book and her whole public persona act as a much-needed antidote to the junk science fueling the totally irrational, hyper-ideological national debate over "women’s issues." Even Publishers Weekly suggested her conclusions are compelling and deserve an unbiased hearing, though they did note... Sommers tends to get pretty petty—she really leans into the mudslinging whenever she goes after her critics. It’s similar to what happened in a review from Booklist; they noted that even though she makes some solid points about how boys are struggling in the classroom, nobody is going to be convinced that the blame lies solely with the American Association of University Women, Carol Gilligan, Mary Pipher, or William S. Pollack—all of whom she takes aim at quite harshly. In the end, the review basically argued that Sommers is just as much of a doom-and-gloom alarmist as the people she’s attacking.[66]

Reviewing The War against boys for The New York Times, Child psychiatrist Robert Coles noted that while Sommers talks a big game about our kids, she hasn't actually gone out and met them—instead, she leans on people who have spent real time working with boys and girls. In doing so, she’s pretty quick to dismiss Carol Gilligan's theories on girls and William S. Pollack's work on boys. Much of the book, according to Coles, comes across as Sommers's strongly felt War against those Two prominent psychologists, Who have spent years Trying to learn How Young men and Women grow to adulthood in The United States.Reviewing the book for The New Yorker, Nicholas Lemann wrote that Sommers basically sets a much higher bar for the people she’s targeting than she ever does for herself—it’s almost unfair. She uses this weird, ambush-style way of arguing where she corners someone, demanding data and answers on the spot. Then, once they’re left stammering and totally caught off guard, she just turns around and claims a massive victory. It's a classic "gotcha" move. Nicholas Lemann called out Sommers—basically pointing out the hypocrisy in her accusing Gilligan of relying too much on anecdotes when her own work is built on that very same shaky foundation. He also noted a bunch of claims she made that just weren't backed up by her own footnotes.[68]

Writing in The Washington Post, E. Anthony Rotundo stated that Ultimately, Sommers—well, she just doesn't actually prove there's some kind of "war against boys" going on. Her whole argument basically boils down to this: feminists are out to get her "boys will be boys" take on childhood, just like she’s coming for their much more fluid version of growing up. Rotundo argues that Sommers’s title “is not just wrong but inexcusably misleading... a work of neither dispassionate social science nor reflective scholarship; it is a conservative polemic.”[69]

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________________________

Christina Hoff Sommers

With a B.A. from NYU and a Ph.D. in Philosophy from Brandeis, Sommers calls herself a classical liberal and a Democrat. But let's be real—despite how much she insists otherwise, it’s pretty obvious she’s a conservative anti-feminist. She essentially helped build the modern anti-feminist movement (alongside Warren Farrell) and works for a GOP-leaning think tank that basically serves up pseudo-academic excuses for right-wing policies. It says a lot about her MRA followers that they conveniently ignore any "liberal" label she tries to claim.

Honestly, if you want a masterclass in brilliant propaganda, just look at her entire career following "Who Stole Feminism?" The fact that well-meaning conservatives actually believe she’s a legitimate feminist—rather than someone playing a game of "embrace, extend, and extinguish"—really shows how successful American conservatism has been at undermining American feminism.

TL😁R? She’s basically on the Koch payroll.
...
Both "Who Stole Feminism?" and "The War against boys" argue that modern feminism ditched true gender equality in favor of some vague concept of "justice," which supposedly left a whole generation of men being vilified. But Sommers's argument doesn't hold water. She consistently twists scholarly debates, ignores any data that doesn't fit her narrative, and goes after studies she dislikes while giving a total pass to the ones she likes.[13]

...
You’re constantly hearing about how C.H. uses lazy, manufactured stats to back her claims. She was called out for this as far back as 1994,[16] but if you want a slam dunk, check out her video on rape statistics.[17] She picked a year with the lowest rape rates of the last decade to cite. Plus, she takes an annual statistic and compares it to lifetime figures without even bothering to explain the jump.

Then there’s her video on women in STEM.[18] Most of her argument is just standard conservative talking points, (check out that condescending video title, "The REAL Reason There Aren't More Female Scientists"). Everything from hinting that women shy away from certain STEM fields due to biology (something Steven Pinker touches on, though not nearly as hard as she does) to assuming that because women *are* present in some STEM areas, discrimination couldn't possibly exist in others. I mean, the tech industry is barely 10% female.[19] That assumption—that gender discrimination is a non-issue—is classic American right-wing logic; admitting otherwise would force them to overhaul their entire worldview.

If you’re anywhere outside the reactionary anti-feminist bubble, it’s becoming glaringly obvious. When someone claims to be a feminist and a gender studies professor, yet engages in this level of blatant lying by omission—which, let's face it, she shouldn't be doing given her philosophy background—it looks like pure political manipulation. At this point, it feels less like she’s just being careless and more like she’s intentionally using sophistry to push a specific agenda.
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"Rape hysteria"
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Views on modern feminism
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Sommers was among the small group of people willing to stick up for Michelle Fields—that Breitbart reporter who got shoved around by a Trump staffer during a campaign rally. Naturally, the reaction from the GamerGate crowd was pretty underwhelming.[42]
...
Ego vs. Spirituality in Spirituality ·
hiddenpuma75 said:Oh, come on, give me a break!

Men commit 78% of suicides.

Men make up 68% of the homeless population.

80% of murder victims are men.

98% of military casualties are men.

92% of workplace injuries involve men.

I guess those wars were totally necessary—that women just initiated them and forced men to kill each other.

Back in 1971, women finally gotthe Swiss Vote(in the canton of Vermont, not until 1990!)
Ego vs. Spirituality in Spirituality ·
mistywalker16 said:That sounds like militant feminism to me—mostly because, behind the curtain of the reality we actually live in, there's an ongoing gender war driven by extreme ego states. It's something certain individuals have managed to build up within their social circles (and failed to control), and the higher the level of imbalance, the more brutal it gets—which, frankly, is currently devastating the most capable segment of the male population.

Women have absolutely succeeded in this takeover due to an inherent predisposition they've started leveraging—not to foster love, but to concentrate power. The whole thing was facilitated by the old concept of virginity, which has lost all its relevance. Now, the modern woman can just visualize what she wants in her head, leaving us with a public sphere full of shallow caricatures who, in their own truth regarding how they actually function, are essentially incapable of truly realizing themselves as women anymore. At this stage, you also see homosexuality acting as a stronghold—which is really just a deviation of sexuality fueled by the "modern female ego," where the very origin of love used to reside.

The problem is massive, and it's only going to get worse unless we find the guts to face it head-on (and it's really just a matter of time before we have to). We are facing one of the greatest revolutions—a revolution of the mind for most people... triggered by a realization of who we actually are, which is ultimately what drives the advancement of consciousness.

God, the amount of nonsense and garbage floating around this forum is unreal. Every time I visit, I feel this growing urge to just wash my hands of the whole thing.
Poor guys—women have been feeding them complexes for decades now, and honestly, it's going to lead humanity straight into the ground.

I mean, they should have been suppressed for at least 10,000 years just like men did to them (and even then, the world is still a mess), then maybe we could start talking about equality or this "inability to realize themselves as women" stuff.
PS
Joseph Bailey41, here's the gist—this guy thinks patriarchy was ordained by God and that women are second-class citizens (which isn't true, they're just slightly different; as long as they cover up with a veil or a burqa and stay home watching soap operas while guarding their virginity, everything is fine).
On politics, though—the guy is a total follower of that stable, "covfefe"-style fool.
The whole point of spirituality is just trying to be a better person.
Even better? Helping everyone else level up, too.
And—honestly—that part's a lot easier.

😍
Mark Twain (paraphrased).
Zachary Cox69, you've clearly taken a wrong turn if you think this is the right place.
You should've taken a left at Abu Bakr. 😍
Who are the real gurus? in Spirituality ·
Thich Nhat Hanh

"Love is something that helps you suffer less."

The art of Being Peace | dharma talk by Thich Nhat Hanh, 2008 05 13

Just another guru selling smoke—though, to be fair, he actually left a mark for the better. It wasn't just about peddling Buddhist meditation techniques and lofty teachings,
but his actual, boots-on-the-ground social activism.

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Who are the real gurus? in Spirituality ·
A real math professor doesn't care if you actually listen to them or not—they aren't looking to squeeze a buck out of you or fish for "donations."
To a guy like that, they aren't even really a teacher.

Maharishi Mahesh Yogi

Maharishi Mahesh Yogi—I saw him up close in New York City once and he seemed fine—is the guy who made Transcendental Meditation (mantra-based meditation) accessible to millions of people.
It’s a simple, effortless technique that genuinely helps with stress relief.
Of course, it comes with plenty of folklore (those pseudo-scientific attempts to explain how it affects the physical world), some serious pretentiousness (it was honestly hilarious seeing meditation teachers at a beach resort in the middle of summer, all decked out in full suits and ties just to look "official"), and a whole lot of business (though back in New York City thirty years ago, I managed to get a pretty good deal—even the monks in Italy were surprisingly affordable).

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Who are the real gurus? in Spirituality ·
Paul Rogers94 said:The real question is whether the others were any more successful. By the way, they used to call his near-identical counterpart U.G. Krishnamurti an "anti-guru." U.G. was born into a Brahmin family, and from early childhood, he was constantly badgered by these self-proclaimed sages who would gather at his parents' house. He knew Jiddu, attended a couple of his lectures, and apparently, the mutual intolerance there went both ways... He even sought out Raman, whom he dismissed as someone who just lies around reading comic books. UG seemed like a pretty interesting character, though.🙏

So we're talking about the guy who walked out on his wife and seriously ill son just to wander around New York City?
The one whose Swiss wife supported him his entire life—the man who experienced a total calamity, or let's call it enlightenment, right after his final blowout with Krishnamurti?

Rudolf Steiner

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Then there's another one—the guy who didn't buy into the idea that Krishnamurti was the new Maitreyi, split from the Theosophical Society, and started the Anthroposophy movement.
His schools spread across the globe, and he actually left a mark on agriculture, art, and medicine (my family doctor of 30 years—someone I rarely see, though she's a good friend with her own practice here in Switzerland—still uses Anthroposophical methods quite successfully).
It’s a bit of a paradox, similar to the situation with Raman regarding "a healthy mind in a healthy body"—it looks like he ended up dying of cancer too.
Who are the real gurus? in Spirituality ·
silverwolf98 said:You can spend your life pouring over the Buddha, some self-proclaimed master, an avatar, or endless scientific papers—or even worse, just sitting there playing the part of the wise, enlightened sage in your own head because you think you’ve already mastered it all. Just more noise and spikes.
It’s all just badaves if you don't actually look inward and read your own soul. Only then can you truly tell yourself where you stand—whether you're stuck in a mess, living in bliss, or actually experiencing freedom... whatever version of reality you've been dreaming up.

What does it even mean to "see and read yourself"?

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Jiddu Krishnamurti
The anti-guru guru—a guy who spent his entire life trying to use philosophy (basically, using thought) to show people how dangerous thoughts, divisions, and illusions can be, not to mention our social conditioning.
Whether he actually pulled it off is anyone's guess.

"I maintain that truth is a pathless land, and you cannot approach it by any path whatsoever, by any religion, by any sect. That is my point of view, and I adhere to that absolutely and unconditionally. Truth, being limitless, unconditioned, unapproachable by any path whatsoever, cannot be organized; nor should any organization be formed to lead or coerce people along a particular path. ... This is no magnificent deed, because I do not want followers, and I mean this. The moment you follow someone you cease to follow Truth. I am not concerned whether you pay attention to what I say or not. I want to do a certain thing in the world and I am going to do it with unwavering concentration. I am concerning myself with only one essential thing: to set man free. I desire to free him from all cages, from all fears, and not to found religions, new sects, nor to establish new theories and new philosophies."

PS
Seems like Sylvia Plath had a pretty tragic life, huh?
Who are the real gurus? in Spirituality ·
Buddha
Buddha – American
Since we already have a thread dedicated to Buddhism, I’ll just keep this brief—just a quick rundown of what this guru actually taught us.
- The Middle Way—finding that sweet spot between extreme asceticism and pure hedonism (though, honestly, figuring out where that line sits in today's world is the tricky part)
- 4 noble truths, which stem from a deep dive into how we're all conditioned (for anyone paying attention, suffering is universal—it's not about being a pessimist, it's just reality)
- The Noble Eightfold Path, built on living an ethical life (if you can even call social morality "ethics" anymore?) and peaking with meditative and contemplative practice
- Avoiding those endless debates over metaphysics and rejecting the idea of a permanent "self" or soul (like atman)

Don't just believe something because some ancient text says so, or because it's the faith your people hold or what you were drilled with since you were a kid. Instead, think about everything critically. If you find that something is truly good for others, then believe in it, live it, and help everyone else live it too.

Hatred is never erased by hatred. Only kindness can wash away hate. That’s an eternal, unchanging law.

A person might defeat a thousand warriors on a battlefield, but they can't compare to the one who has conquered themselves.

Listen to the person who points out your flaws as if they were handing you a chest of gold.

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Who are the real gurus? in Spirituality ·
Back then, while folks in the East were mostly focused on just not hurting anyone else (ahimsa)—or at best, trying to cultivate some compassion—Jesus suggested something entirely different. He pushed for a much more proactive approach, basically saying, "love your neighbor as yourself."
Unfortunately—and looking at the world today, where most people can't even manage to love themselves—it seems he was a few thousand years ahead of his time (honestly, I’d suggest he waits at least another millennium before making a comeback). Back then, the followers decided to stop talking and actually start acting. History took care of the rest, which we see everywhere in churches and on altars.

Given the level of consciousness back then, he probably couldn't have done much more. Still, a few hand-written texts with slightly more precise explanations would have definitely helped steer everything that eventually happened in his name.

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Who are the real gurus? in Spirituality ·
@boldsailor2
Brilliant! 👍

Raman Maharshi, claims he had a near-death experience at sixteen—the kind of thing that supposedly helped him uncover his true self.
Later on, he used to mess with people by asking "Who am I?"—as if we don't all already know who we are. He also preached total devotion to the divine.
It’s a bit ironic when you consider the whole "healthy mind, healthy body" cliché; he ended up dying of cancer, which theologians conveniently explain away as him taking on the bad karma of his followers.

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A lot of folks claimed they felt an indescribable sense of peace just being near him.
That hill where he meditated—and especially the cave—really does radiate peace (unless, obviously, you're claustrophobic) and carries a very specific energy.
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Who are the real gurus? in Spirituality ·
Self-proclaimed Bulgarian guru—though somehow he made it into the top 100 most influential people in Bulgarian history (ranking at 37th) and became their most prolific author.
They say he was an incredibly humble guy, deeply connected to the natural world.

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Peter Deunov

In the West, he’s mostly known through his student who lived in France— Omraam Mikhaël Aïvanhov.

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Their teachings lean heavily into theosophy; they even lent their name to the society (the Great White Brotherhood).
One interesting thing about them is the ritual dances, called paneurhythmy, which are usually performed out in nature.
Who are the real gurus? in Spirituality ·
Since we're already bringing up "my narcissistic fraud" (his little golden boy)—and let's not pretend I only care about guys from India.
He’s basically the top of your list up there, and probably the only American guru who actually made it big on the international stage.

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Aba Aziz Makaj
Who are the real gurus? in Spirituality ·
Just another fog salesman having some hallucinations:
"“I looked at the jail that secluded me from men and it was no longer by its high walls that I was imprisoned; no, it was Vasudeva who surrounded me. I walked under the branches of the tree in front of my cell but it was not the tree, I knew it was Vasudeva, it was Sri Krishna whom I saw standing there and holding over me his shade. I looked at the bars of my cell, the very grating that did duty for a door and again I saw Vasudeva. It was Narayana who was guarding and standing sentry over me. Or I lay on the coarse blankets that were given me for a couch and felt the arms of Sri Krishna around me, The arms of my friend and Lover. this was The First Use of The deeper Vision He gave me. I looked at the prisoners in the jail, the thieves, the murderers, the swindlers, and as I looked at them I saw Vasudeva, it was Narayana whom I found in these darkened souls and misused bodies. Amongst these thieves and dacoits there were many who put me to shame by their sympathy, their kindness, the humanity triumphant over such adverse circumstances.”"

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Sri Aurobindo

His collaborator Mirar Alfass -The Mother,
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the founder of auroviti, an alternative community where about 2,800 people live right now.
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Who are the real gurus? in Spirituality ·
Regarding this fraud and his little protégé—bluemason3 might have more to say on the matter.

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Ramakrishna

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Swami Vivekananda
Who are the real gurus? in Spirituality ·
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Irina Tweedie
I only met her once, but man, she left a mark.
She wrote this book about her journey and meeting a Sufi master—it’s one of those longer, slightly tedious spiritual reads—called Daughter of Fire : a Diary of a Spiritual Training with a Sufi master par

Just some irreverent thoughts on the spiritual path.
Irina Tweedie: Spiritual Training (excerpt)
Who are the real gurus? in Spirituality ·
Some pretty interesting spiritual lineage here.

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Mahavatar Babaj

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Lahiri Mahasay Swami Sri Yukteswar gira Satyanand gira Paramahans Yoganand PS oftopic

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Swami Sri Yukteswar Giri

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Satyananda Giri

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Paramahansa Yogananda

PS
oftopic
It’s wild how many people—maybe 40% to 70% of folks in the West—end up falling for those "sexual gurus." They lead people astray sexually and psychologically, then milk them for everything they're worth materially, only to dump them once the honeymoon phase wears off. Basically, they just walk away and leave everyone else picking up the pieces.
Who are the real gurus? in Spirituality ·
If someone actually wants to learn and reach some kind of realization, they’ll find it even under a self-proclaimed guru.
But if you’re too busy chasing your own delusions—or just following the hype around you—you won't learn a damn thing, even from a real deal teacher.

I don't get why everyone here is so allergic to the whole concept of gurus. Unless, of course, you were foolish enough to follow someone who turned out to be a total fraud (though the real question is: why were you following them in the first place?).
Teachers, much like anyone else in a school setting, exist on different levels of spiritual achievement. It stands to reason that those at the highest level are the rarest, and they aren't exactly going to spend their time teaching beginners.
On the flip side, it also makes sense that novice teachers are going to mess up more often—which doesn't always mean they have bad intentions.

There are plenty of sharp, ultra-critical people on this forum—the kind of folks who are impossible to please, even if it means starving themselves of any actual insight. And honestly? That's fine. We all have our roles to play, good or bad.
Who are the real gurus? in Spirituality ·
Thomas Nelson25 said:It’s a fair question—what does a guru actually represent in Asia, especially with all that Indian culture and Chinese influence mixed in?
Out here in the States, the whole concept is pretty blurry... there isn't really a direct equivalent, right?

Think about the role of an Elder in Eastern Orthodoxy or how monks practice obedience