Posts by casualtiger2

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It’s pretty interesting how you see it across just about every religious tradition—that depiction of saints with an aura, whether it's wrapped around their whole body, encircling the head, or centered on the heart.
Halo (religious iconography)

Elizabeth Castillo87 said:I personally remember having pain in a tooth that was pulled back when I was just in elementary school. Just to be clear, my jaw is perfectly fine now.
As for phantom pain in an amputated limb, I know someone who had both legs amputated during childhood. I don't know if that serves as proof of an etheric body, but the explanation that nerve endings just don't heal properly feels way too simplistic to me—not that anyone actually buys that theory anymore. Modern research points toward reorganization in the somatosensory cortex, but honestly, that doesn't quite sit right with me either.
Still, if we're talking about the etheric body in its entirety, could that thing actually be the cause of the pain?

Without the etheric body (prana), there’s no such thing as pain—but there’s no pleasure either.
The whole starting point for materialism is this idea that physical processes trigger feelings, thoughts, and consciousness. But honestly, you can easily flip that logic on its head—consciousness descends through increasingly dense layers of matter, forming the corresponding bodies needed to function at those levels along the way.
In that scenario, the blueprint or command for building cells, organs, or neurons... comes from "above." If that holds water, then the physical body is really just a "copy" of the etheric, astral, or mental bodies—and essentially, without them, it's just "dead" matter.
Obviously, we can't interact directly with the physical world without a physical body, much like you can't turn electromagnetic waves into sound without a radio receiver—but that doesn't mean physical matter is the primary driver here.

Neurobiologists have run studies showing that certain brain centers react (say, to the intent to move an arm) before a person even becomes consciously aware of that intent. That would suggest the brain is making the call rather than "us"—though, for now, we just can't track the deeper conscious processes that might be triggering those specific brain centers in response to our intentions.

However Narendra was amazed on hearing Ramakrishna's answer to the customary question that he normally put forward to the spiritual men he met: "Have you seen God?" Ramakrishna simply replied, "Yes, I have seen God. I see Him just as clearly as I see you standing here—only much more intensely!"

During the second visit to Ramakrishna, the master, lost in an ecstatic meditative state, touched Narendra with his foot. Suddenly, the entire reality—the walls, the room, the temple, even the garden—just dissolved into a vast void right before his eyes. Terrified and honestly thinking he was about to die, Narendra shouted for it to stop, rambling about how he still had his parents and siblings to look after. Once he finally calmed down, he tried to rationalize the whole thing as some sort of intense hypnosis rather than a genuine spiritual experience.

The third time when Narendra met Ramakrishna, the master touched him on his third eye, plunging him straight into a trance. In that state, Ramakrishna enquired of Narendra's purpose and mission and confirmed his convictions of him.

God help us with all the frauds and hypnotists running around this world.
Even if it’s just related to the etheric body—which is a massive understatement—it's still wild.

Interesting phenomenon here—something you could potentially link back to how the etheric body actually functions: Phantom limb

"A phantom limb is that weird sensation where an amputated or missing limb feels like it’s still right there. Roughly 60 to 80% of people dealing with an amputation deal with these phantom sensations, and most of the time, they aren't exactly pleasant. These sensations can even pop up after losing parts of the body other than limbs—think things like breast amputation, pulling a tooth (phantom tooth pain), or even losing an eye (phantom eye syndrome)."

Back when I was a student, I lived out in Chicago—about a thirty-minute ride from downtown New York City.
I actually lucked out because my bus stop was the very first one on the line, so I always had a seat to myself—perfect for meditating.
One morning, right after I’d settled into my meditation, this massive double-decker bus—one of those huge ones meant for maybe 120 people—packed to the gills by the second or third stop. (I don't know what transit is like in other cities, but back then, New York City's public transport was a total disaster, and honestly, still is.)
It felt completely normal at first, even when I felt someone's thigh pressing against my arm, right at bicep level. As the ride wound down, the bus started thinning out, but that sensation wouldn't budge. When I finally opened my eyes, I realized it was coming from this stunning girl—who, I assume, was sitting next to her boyfriend.
The weird part? The bus was basically empty by then; there were plenty of open seats everywhere.
It wasn't until I actually stood up to get off that she finally moved away.
Sadly, I didn't get the chance to meet her and ask why that happened or how it felt on her end, so there's no significant scientific report to follow.
(And yeah, the statistics aren't exactly on my side here.)

Anyway, I'm sure you're familiar with that feeling of someone invading your "personal bubble," whether you're on a crowded bus or just hanging out privately.
Does this phenomenon actually exist, and if it does, how would modern biology, sociology, or psychology explain it?
At first glance, when I Googled "personal bubble," I mostly just got hit with French websites discussing Zones and Distances.
What they label as "the intimate zone" (about 15–50 cm) actually seems like a pretty spot-on description of the etheric body's zone.

Have you ever noticed how being near certain people just feels *good*, while others leave you feeling drained, anxious, annoyed, or even oddly upbeat—even without a single word being exchanged?
Is there a real phenomenon here, and is there a scientific way to explain it?

Here are a few more phenomena that could be explained by "energy"—or maybe just suggestion, hypnosis, or plain old physical reflexes.
When someone gets hurt, there’s this natural tendency to grab the injury—maybe rubbing it, maybe not—but mothers especially love to kiss the spot or blow on it.
Another little exercise idea: if you’ve got an ache somewhere, try focusing on your chest for a second. Try to tap into that feeling of being head-over-heels in love, or just a general sense of warmth and affection (doesn't matter how you get there). If—and when—you actually feel that "energy," those tingles, or that "pins and needles" sensation... try directing it straight toward the part of your body that hurts.
Prana is a lot like electricity; it tends to pool in certain spots. Most of the discharge happens at "pointed" areas like your fingertips, or at specific centers like the reproductive organs. A good chunk of it also flows through speech, out the mouth (which is why we have the silence practice, Mauna),
and even through the eyes—which explains that weird sensation of being watched or felt by someone's gaze...

bluemason3, what does your favorite, Ramakrishna, have to say about all this "energy" stuff?

Susan Sullivan6 said:Back in the day, our Jiu-Jitsu crew used to share a gym with a group of Judo practitioners.
To be honest, Judo always looked kind of ridiculous to me. ☕ There’s a massive difference between throwing a partner who’s actually working with you and trying to move against some grumpy old man who’s just digging his heels in to resist you.

I remember one time, our instructor—who was rocking a purple belt at the time—sparred against a black belt from the Judo squad and absolutely tossed him around like he was nothing. 😁

If you actually want to learn how to fight, go with real aikido by Ljubomir Vracarevic. 😬

For everyone else, I’d suggest ki aikido by Koichi Tohei. It stays truer to the spirit of the founder, Morihei Ueshiba; a strange and warlike fellow who happened to be one of those guys prone to making things up:
"I set my mind on budo when I was about 15 and visited teachers of swordmanship and jujitsu in various provinces. I mastered the secrets of the old traditions each within a few months. But there was no one to instruct me in the essence of budo – the only thing that could satisfy my mind. So I knocked on the gates of various religions but I couldn`t get any concrete answers.

Then in the spring of 1925 when I was taking a walk in the garden I felt that the universe suddenly quaked and that a golden spirit sprang up from the ground, veiled my body and changed my body into a golden one. At the same time my mind and body became light. I was able to understand the whispering of the birds, and was clearly aware of the mind of God, the creator of this universe. At that moment I was enlightened. The source of Budo is God's Love. The spirit of loving protection for all beings. Endless tears of joy streamed down my cheeks.

Since that time I have grown to feel that the whole earth is my house and the sun, moon and the stars are all my own things. I had become free from all desire, not only for position, fame and property, but also to be strong. I understood, budo is not felling the opponent by our force, nor it is a tool to lead the world into destruction with arms. True budo is to accept the spirit of the universe, keep the peace of the world, correctly produce, protect and cultivate all things in nature and assimilate and utilize it in our own mind and body

Elizabeth Castillo87 said:Since when did clapping your hands become an ethical violation? Seriously?

You're giving up way too soon. If Fleming had actually stuck strictly to his lab protocols, who knows how much longer we would've been waiting for penicillin.

How so? Don't you realize all that stuff comes from the devil?
True ethics are based on the words of our Good Father—who was a bit high-strung, nearly wiped out all of humanity, and founded the very institution his son later ran,
which, let's be honest, can easily devolve into inquisitions, wars, and covering up predators within its own ranks—all while sitting on massive wealth (spiritual wealth, obviously).
If that doesn't click for you, maybe go talk to your local inquisitor; they'll happily "cleanse" and save your soul.

found said:You're giving up too soon.
...

This isn't some battle about whether I'm giving up or not.
Bell and I have been around this forum long enough to know each other—I respect his take (and honestly, I even agree with him sometimes, even when I don't 😍)—so we're good.
Besides, my experiences are mine alone; I don't need validation from random people on a forum (especially since most of what I post here is just me rehashing old stories anyway).
"Spirituality" can't really be treated as a hard science yet—at least not in the strict, objective, external sense. And let's face it: spiritual types tend to drift into fantasy quite a bit, especially once they start throwing scientific terminology around.
Anyway, if you're actually interested in the topic, check out "Etheric body" by Arthur E. Powell, or "Subtle Body" by David V. Tansley.

PS
A few more thoughts crossed my mind regarding that whole suggestibility thing we were talking about.
There are plenty of scientific studies on the placebo effect.
Most of them conclude that the placebo actually works. Does that mean—given that there’s a partial improvement in health—that it's all just a scam or an illusion, simply because the effects come from suggestion using substances with no actual medicinal properties?

It's a known fact that through focused attention, you can create temperature differences of several degrees in different parts of your body (like between your left and right hand), or use specific visualizations to speed up or slow down your heart rate and brain waves through meditation or prayer.
Does that mean those measured changes in heat, heart rhythm, or brain wave frequency are actually illusory, just because they were produced by the subjective mind of the person being studied?

If, for instance, I imagine I can control my pranic energy to lessen or stop pain, have I objectively reduced the pain, or did I just convince myself that I did?

@bluemason3
We were already on our way. 😬

@Daniel Castillo11
Did I actually say anything about the "supernatural properties of reality"?
Or a "serious branch of science"?

Look, I just suggested a simple experiment. Here’s my take:
1. Nobody notices anything happening—end of story.
2. Certain phenomena *are* noticed—which opens up various interpretations and explanations, much like how bluemason3 and Daniel Castillo11 have already laid out their views.

Here’s the "problem"—I’ve done this exercise a few times in New York City with people I barely knew at the time.
Once everyone felt that "energy" moving between their own hands, we tried to establish that same flow between pairs, and it worked just the same.
To check if we were all just imagining things, we’d blindfold one person. Once they established contact between their palms—about 20-30cm apart, feeling like there was some kind of rubber band stretched between them—the person who could see would start moving their hand slightly in a certain direction. The blindfolded person's job was to follow that hand based solely on that "energy" connection.
In 9 out of 11 cases, the blindfolded person’s hand followed the other person's movement perfectly.
Most of those folks were trying this for the very first time—hardly seasoned meditators or anything like that...
I had the exact same experience, with the same results, in San Francisco, Dallas, and Chicago with friends and family.

One way to do this exercise is to have one person hold their palm facing up, while the other holds their hand vertically, fingers down, trying to "shake energy" through their fingers toward the palm.

@Elizabeth Castillo87
For me, the goal back then (it had been a while since I’d done it that way) was simply to see if this "energy" even existed.
The fact that I felt these misty clouds drifting from me to others (and vice versa) gave me some pretty strong indications that there are actual phenomena behind the concept of etheric energies.
It’s hard to find a single tradition where this energy isn't mentioned—even if the terminology varies.
The Theosophical term "etheric body" is a relatively recent addition—here is a Wikipedia short description - Etheric Body some Wikipedia short description - Etheric Body some
Other names include prana, ki, bioenergy, vital force, orgone energy, and plenty of others.
And along those lines, you have all the attempts to control this "energy"—pranayama, acupuncture, acupressure, probably Reiki (which I don't know much about), and laying on of hands...
Like I said, it seems this part of our physical body is especially vital to our health, so any benefit from being able to control it would be obvious.

I can't even remember when I first tried this—or why, really. Either way, there was zero hypnosis involved, and nobody was feeding me suggestions about what I should be feeling
(which is why I didn't claim any massive sensations were possible in the first place).
But, looking at how things work in spiritual circles, you’ve got people who haven't even tried it yet but already have an opinion—some cling to theories, while others see nothing but demons (or just assume it's all hypnosis/suggestion).
The practice doesn't need to be long; we aren't talking about exhaustion or hand cramping, nor is this some attempt to "clench hands" (?).
Anyway, here’s my take—after about 10 to 30 seconds, I start feeling these "ants" crawling through my fingertips and the center of my palms, along with a distinct flow of "energy."
In the middle of my palms, there's also this extra heat (if you've ever done Yoga Nidra involving conscious awareness shifting, or maybe some Autogenic Training, then you know the drill—wherever you focus your attention, that part of the body gets warmer, more relaxed, or "heavier").
After a few minutes, an "energy" flow establishes itself between my palms; when I slowly pull my hands apart, it feels like they're connected by some kind of elastic band.
That connection usually snaps and vanishes at around 15 or 20 inches.
PS
Elizabeth Castillo87, we're talking about etheric "energies" here. Does our discussion actually serve a purpose?
Thomas Nelson25
Do you practice Judo? I experienced some "incredible" things regarding ki flow back then.

Has anyone actually given what I suggested a shot?

Look, this isn't actually a thread about organ transplants.

Kevin Ruiz36 said:They performed animal organ transplants—specifically pigs, since their organs are the most similar to ours—over 20 years ago...
The kid they transplanted those organs into was basically a lost cause, so his parents took the scientists up on the offer to use pig organs to save him. Fast forward a few years as he grew, and things got weird—he started looking more porcine, with his nose turning into a snout and ears starting to grow out.
...

That’s definitely not true.
PS
Correction: they tried it with a monkey organ, and the child died after 21 days— Xenotransplantation
Some ambitious surgeon was clearly just practicing on people.
If anyone actually wants to talk about this, go start a new thread.

Elizabeth Castillo87 said:You’ve got a point there. Thanks for the heads-up.
But honestly, what’s wild about Don Juan is how he talks about that egg being this grayish color... which is pretty much exactly what I’ve been seeing myself.

Take a look at this diagram. The physical plane is split into seven sub-layers—solid matter, liquid, gas, and then those four ET sub-layers.
After that, you hit the emotional level, or the astral plane (which also breaks down into seven sub-layers...).
When it comes to chakras, they're basically described as transformers, pulling energy from those higher levels (astral, mental, etc.) and funneling it down into the ET, or physical body.
Here’s a decent visual breakdown of the chakras and their corresponding nadis (those energy channels connecting them).

Interesting. I didn't study the diagram too closely because my German isn't exactly up to par, sorry! But I still see chakras when I look at people and then close my eyes—they always look like these spinning little vortices that turn purple, or if they stop spinning, they turn black. With little kids, they show up as blue.
Anyway, we drifted away from the ET body. So, is that essentially just the energetic shell surrounding our physical self? Is that what people call an aura?

Theoretically, there isn't just one aura—there are several (etheric, astral, mental, etc.).
At every level, we have a corresponding body that allows us to interact within that realm. Some parts overlap with the physical, while others extend outward—which is why that stuff extending beyond the physical, the part that’s easier to notice, is usually called the aura. Think of it like the corona around the Sun.
As for the etheric body, they say it extends anywhere from a few centimeters up to about a foot (while the astral and mental auras have an even larger "reach"), depending on the person and their psycho-physical state. Apparently, your ET state is huge for your overall health.

It would be pretty interesting if everyone interested gave a simple experiment a shot.
Put your hands together like you're praying, but don't actually let your palms or fingers touch. Keep the fingers slightly curved and a few inches apart (on each hand individually, and away from the fingers of the other hand). Roughly like this (+ spread your fingers out), but without contact (PS: imagine you're holding something, like a vase).

Try to focus on the flow of energy through your fingertips and the center of your palms.
Does anything happen? (Try it a few times, for at least a few minutes, staying completely physically relaxed but mentally focused).

Elizabeth Castillo87 said:I’ve had some pretty similar experiences myself. Honestly, though, what I went through feels way more aligned with how Don Juan describes seeing auras as these glowing spheres or egg-like shapes—you know, that whole Castaneda vibe. It doesn't really click with the stuff you hear in Eastern spirituality, though I'll admit I haven't spent nearly as much time digging into that side of things.

By the way, you've got those theosophists claiming that the etheric level—or the etheric body, if you want to get technical—is actually just a fundamental part of the physical plane. Is that even possible? It’s like they think the two are totally inseparable.
So, look, Samkhya—which is basically the backbone of most yoga stuff we talk about—splits the entire universe into two big camps: Purusha and Prakriti. Think of Purusha as pure consciousness or the spirit, the "observer" sitting in the back of the room. Then you’ve got Prakriti, which is everything else. And when I say "everything else," I don't just mean physical matter like bricks and mortar. We're talking about the whole messy spectrum: your willpower, your capacity to love, your thoughts, those wild emotions that hit you out of nowhere... all of it. It's basically the "stuff" of existence versus the thing that's actually watching it happen. Makes sense, right? Or does it just make things more complicated?

Look, like I said, I haven't really dug deep into this yet. It’s all Greek to me at this point. Does this mean the etheric body is basically anything *except* the physical plane? Or am I just totally lost?

If the Theosophists cherry-picked bits from traditional systems—mixed them up, then reassembled them—then Castaneda (and a lot of today's trendy spiritual writers) likely pulled heavily from Theosophy (specifically those "spherical, egg-shaped auras"). Just look at the illustrations in the book by C. Leadbeater—
"Man, Visible and Invisible" (Aura, images).

Like I said, I haven't studied it much. It's all Greek to me. Does that mean the etheric body is anything other than the physical level?

Take a look at the diagram. The physical plane is split into seven sub-levels—solid matter, liquid, gas, and four etheric sub-layers.
After that comes the emotional layer, or the astral plane (which is also broken down into seven sub-levels...).
As for chakras, they're described as transformers—basically conduits that funnel energy from higher levels (astral, mental, etc.) down into the etheric, or physical, body.
Here’s a good visual of the chakras and their corresponding nadis (those energy flows between them).

Elizabeth Castillo87 said:So, tell me, casualtiger2, do you actually buy into this whole thing about an ethereal body and those other five non-physical layers?

Generally speaking, I’m skeptical of just about everything.
Like I’ve mentioned before—and I'll say it again—Theosophical ideas are interesting enough, but that doesn't mean I buy them as absolute truth (even if they feel intuitively logical sometimes).
Some of what's written there does align with things I've actually dealt with.

Specifically, there have been several times where something—call it matter, call it energy, whatever—has detached from my body and drifted toward someone else. When that substance hits them, I get a reaction—physical or verbal—from people sensing they were touched. Even if they had their backs turned to me or were looking away (it’s happened in public places with total strangers, too).
A few times, I've actually seen this energy as a hazy mist moving from me toward the person—and the second it makes contact, they react.

By the way, Theosophists consider the etheric level/body to be an integral part of the physical plane.
And Samkhya—which Yoga draws from partially—splits the world into Purusha and Prakriti. Purusha is consciousness/spirit, while Prakriti is matter (and by "matter," they'd include everything beyond the first level—basically everything besides physically defined matter and will, love, thoughts, and emotions).

I’m starting this thread because I’ve run into two different takes on whether "energies" actually exist within living beings. I put "energies" in quotes—since we’re talking about things supposedly distinct from basic physics here.
Two perspectives: one subjective, one objective (though we still have to figure out which is which 😍).

bluemason3 said:...
Vegetarian arguments regarding energy don't have much more substance than cannibalistic theories about absorbing the qualities of what you eat—and honestly, even that cannibalism thing is more archetypally universal.
...

yakuzza said:...
Meat carries energetic information or "impressions" (binding samskaras) that a person eventually has to express in one way or another (just like any other impression).
...

My own take—based on experience—is that these energies definitely exist. But if I started explaining why, this post would be way too long for right now. So, let's just ask: what do you guys think about "energies"—specifically what Theosophists call etheric energies (shown in the diagram below as the 1-2-3-4 sub-layers of the physical plane)?

I’m pretty attached to my prejudices—honestly, I don't see any reason to ditch them just to chase some questionable agenda.

redbear2 said:I couldn't care less about this kind of nonsense.

redbear2 said:In my book, spiritual gurus and self-help experts are nothing more than glorified con artists. 🤷

Personally, I think posts like this are just pure filler.