Posts by Patrick Morris3

I mean, security is definitely a major factor here. Any company that actually takes its business seriously allocates a massive amount of resources to secure platforms—for instance, even Microsoft keeps its own DNS running on Linux...
So, I guess you really need multiplatform support. You’d want Windows for desktops, since that’s currently the most cost-effective option, while keeping those critical systems running on Linux or Unix environments...

Well, I mean, if multiplatform solutions are truly inferior—both when it comes to raw speed and how efficiently they utilize hardware resources—then why even bother discussing them at all? In that case, they just aren't worth our attention. It seems like everyone would be better off simply choosing a non-multiplatform solution that actually works fast and provides higher quality than those multiplatform options.

I suppose if I were looking for some sort of primitive reasoning regarding all of this, then your answer would have completely satisfied me...

However, if one were searching for some actual intelligent thought on the subject, it would be difficult to succeed. Because, I guess, you would also have to consider the fact that most companies already rely on multiplatform solutions. It wouldn't make any sense for them to switch over to Windows because they would likely face bankruptcy... since, as far as anyone knows, those massive Microsoft licenses are certainly not cheap...
The second thing is that DotNet is a relatively new technology. Therefore, it becomes incredibly expensive if a company has to pay for retraining their staff who currently work in Java, not to mention the cost of the tools, which adds a bit more wealth to the equation, I suppose...
The third thing is that a single platform doesn't really exist. If a company ties itself to just one platform, they might end up going broke... and by platform, I don't just mean software SKU... because if you aren't careful, things move into 64-bit mode, and suddenly a company buys DotNet licenses for 32-bit, only to find that in three years they have to buy all those licenses again for a 64-bit solution... whereas, I think, you can just use Java on all kinds of solutions...

Daniel Fowler9, let's just pretend for a second that you're ten years old and it’s perfectly fine if some things don't quite click for you yet...

Since Java is designed to be multiplatform, I guess it makes it harder to optimize...
The same goes for Linux being multiplatform; it makes writing it more difficult (though since it's open source, someone actually manages to build a better product than Microsoft does sometimes)..

Windows isn't multiplatform, so it should be easier to write (but even then, it's still riddled with security holes and ends up costing you way more than Linux does)....
DotNet isn't multiplatform either, which is why it's easier to optimize and maintain—which is honestly what you'd expect, especially considering Microsoft has poured more into DotNet than the entirety of Sun Microsystems is worth)....

And that point you made about "ubiquity"... it really doesn't hold up... I was talking about ubiquity in terms of computer architectures, and as far as you know, Windows isn't even ubiquitous across all computer architectures....

Maybe we could dial back the insults and the hostility a bit? I guess Daniel Fowler9 actually has a point here; the documentation mentioned by Piper seems to suggest that .NET is a faster, more efficient architecture.

Bryan Fisher7, I almost entirely agree with you, but I feel like the gentlemen in this thread aren't really accounting for the fact that J2EE is multiplatform...

One day, maybe, when .NET can run on Linux, Solaris, Windows, and so on... then we can truly start comparing them...

I suppose the person who absolutely needs raw speed will just stick to C/C++, while someone who prioritizes multiplatform capabilities and other features will just use Java...

So now, I'm honestly just confused as to why anyone would even bother using .NET, since it doesn't seem to offer the speed of C or the advantages of Java.????

P.S.

I completely forgot to mention that yet another RPC vulnerability was discovered today... I guess it looks like we might be facing a total internet outage again in a few days, so you all should probably get ready...

Anyway, I think it would be much better if Microsoft let those people who come up with all this heavy-handed propaganda actually work on OS security instead... maybe then people would actually trust them...

I honestly don't see why you even posted this link here. What exactly are you trying to prove?

I am just trying to show you that everyone else here understands what is actually happening, while you seem stuck on this one document like it's some kind of holy grail...

Do you really think I work at Sun Microsystems and could just hand over an internal white paper comparing .NET and Java—one where, by some miracle, Java looks better than .NET—just because you asked? I mean, what would you even think about that???

But hey, good luck to Microsoft, I suppose. As I mentioned before, they truly have an incredible propaganda department, so you could probably live off documents like that for the rest of your life...

Do you think a memo comes out of Microsoft proving that if you immediately wire $1,000 to a Microsoft bank account, you will feel better and find more happiness in life? (And of course, this is all scientifically proven based on a sample of 1,000 people—who happen to be Microsoft employees, though the document conveniently omits that part...) You would probably post that on a forum too and wonder why nobody believes you???

First of all, how can you be so sure it's propaganda and biased Microsoft material when you haven't even seen it?

I have said it before: I have seen at least a thousand documents like this online over the last few years, and the story is always the same. It is highly likely that Microsoft just uses a standard template where they simply plug in whatever products they want to talk about...

For example:
Microsoft SQL vs. Oracle
IIS vs. Apache w 2003 vs
RH AS...

So, I will give you three guesses to figure out who comes out on top in all those "studies"...

Daniel Fowler9, I am asking you again, are you honestly so naive as to believe that propaganda, or is someone actually paying you to make yourself look like a fool?

There are at least several thousand of those Microsoft documents floating around the web; they come out every single day, and anyone with even a little bit of sense knows it's all just a scam....

Let's see what kind of similar documents have landed on our desks today....

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...osoft_linux_dc

Once again, some supposedly "independent" firm is conducting research on .NET vs java/linux...

And of course, the .NET solution ends up looking better and being more cost-effective...

Come on, people—let's each take three guesses to figure out who actually funded this "independent" study...

From what I have noticed lately, Microsoft is pushing this .NET propaganda pretty hard; it almost seems like .NET is seriously failing...

Okay, I see that in the end, the prevailing opinion is that the document is fake—that it was written (either directly or indirectly) by Microsoft, and that I am some kind of Microsoft plant, and so on and so forth.

Nobody actually said the document was fake, but it’s perfectly clear to everyone that it is just marketing propaganda...

Actually, this kind of propaganda comes out of Microsoft all the time, and people usually just ignore it. I guess it's really not clear to anyone here why you turned into something like this...

Look, that same document also confirms the growth of Linux (mostly in opposition to Unix). Why didn't anyone suspect that specific part of the document, yet everyone questioned the part about .NET and Microsoft???

Nobody suspected the part of the document mentioning the rise of Linux because it is simply a fact that Linux is entering every corner of information technology...
With every new announcement of a supercomputer, Linux is inevitably mentioned...
Linux shows up in the news constantly...
In most companies, there is more and more talk about Linux due to cost reduction and increased security...
Cell phones are starting to use Linux, along with video recorders, audio amplifiers, sophisticated medical equipment, even military submarines...

So, it is only natural that people know Linux is gaining more and more strength, especially since nobody had heard of it three years ago, but today it is mentioned every single day on all the IT websites...

But .NET is the complete opposite. Microsoft launched this massive campaign around it; they claimed that in X years everyone would migrate to .NET, that the next version of Windows was supposed to be called .NET, and so on...
And in the end, Windows is called 2003, practically nobody uses .NET, and the advertising campaign has completely died down... JAVA is still right where it always was...

If you follow the history of Microsoft even slightly, you will notice that Microsoft hasn't made any real innovation in ten years; instead, they just try to push low-quality products through their monopoly...
While 90% of Microsoft's profit comes from Office and Windows, they lose money on almost all their other products because they are low quality and aren't profitable...

I guess I’m at least basing my statements on something: in this specific instance, we are looking at a serious document that wasn't actually authored by Microsoft.

I'm not sure how long you've been working at Microsoft, but if you had been there just a few years longer, you would probably remember plenty of documents that weren't written by Microsoft—even if they were funded by them. Those documents ended up being such an absolute embarrassment immediately afterward that they actually helped the competitors more than they helped Microsoft itself...

It seems now that they are only circulating these documents internally to mess with the heads of sales managers...

Actually, a cousin of mine is a sales manager over at IBM in Chicago, and he used to explain to me all the nonsense companies use just to impress clients. What you wrote here is exactly that kind of thing...

Just counting fake points to make some product look way better than it really is....

You claim that web solutions are represented almost as much as Java solutions, but everyone here knows that simply isn't true. I believe even you must realize that Java solutions are everywhere—from the entire web where you see Java at every turn, down to the J2MA solutions used in all the newer mobile phones—whereas nobody has ever actually seen a web solution like this...

I am aware that you work for Microsoft and that they pay you to push this kind of garbage, but please, I beg you, refrain from doing this here. This isn't a soap opera or a radio show. Maybe suggest to your boss that they pay for this junk and then publish it in a magazine as an advertisement, rather than you having to act like this in a public forum....

It is quite simple, really. Microsoft servers dominate the market, and that is just an undeniable fact.

If a 40% share of the server market counts as dominance, then I guess you are just being completely irrational. :-)))

I suppose it is clear that this number won't stay that high for long, because once Linux—with its 35% annual growth in server systems—finishes eating up the Unix market share, it will likely start eating into Microsoft's share too...

0) Among software vendors, Microsoft has the largest so-called "penetration testing" reach, and only Symantec, Verisign, and Oracle have come close.

Jose Stewart7 responded to that, and honestly, I think it was such a foolish point that you probably shouldn't have even mentioned it....

Of all Linux distributions, Red Hat is used the most, followed to a lesser extent by SUSE, and then Mandrake. Other distributions are almost negligible in terms of user count.

And that would be a great moment for Microsoft???? If more people were using SUSE, would that somehow be bad for MS???
I don't understand??

Among all DBMS systems, there are more Microsoft SQL Servers than Oracle (which some people mistakenly believe).

Wow, so MS has 28%, Oracle has 26%, and IBM has 2%???
I mean, should we really be impressed? It has been like that for years now...

4) Regarding all app servers, the Oracle app server is the most prominent, followed by IBM's, while Sun Microsystems' is the least represented. However, look at the next point.

This also seems like a wonderful moment for MS, since they aren't even in the top three...?

Recently, there has been a very rapid increase in the number of organizations implementing web services as part of their IT solutions. However, the number of .NET-based web services is far greater than the number of J2EE-based web services.

You forgot to mention that the number of business organizations using Microsoft web solutions is maybe around 20%, and if you isolate the ones actually using .NET from that, you end up with what, 2%?...

I guess my personal opinion of you is truly low; please, tell me, how much are they paying you to sell yourself out so cheaply????

It could be one of three things...

First, there might be a BIOS password. You'd handle that by powering up the machine and then pulling the CMOS battery from the motherboard for a moment.

Second, it could be some kind of bootloader that allows for this sort of thing.

Third, maybe it’s just some cheap little utility running via the autoexec.bat file...

So, I guess, how do you actually figure out which one of those three it is...

Someone else on the forum will probably explain the next steps to you. I just don't have the bandwidth right now...